Guild Wars 2

I’m trying to decide what to do with my warrior and ranger, so what better way than a test. I took them up to the Mists and timed a bunch of kills. These were pure weapon tests — no utility skills, no traits. I don’t know the warrior utilities and traits well enough yet to make for a fair “good build” test IMHO.

The results surprised me.

First I did the naked tests. No jewelry, no armor, no traits. 916 power, 4% crit chance. I timed 3 kills of the heavy golem (adding a 4th or 5th if the variance between the three was more than a couple seconds). The longer times I only measured to the nearest second.

70.7 sec – warrior LB autoattack only
52.0 sec – warrior LB 3, 2 spam
36.7 sec – warrior LB 2, F1 spam
35.7 sec – warrior rifle autoattack only (the bleed stack is killer and other skills slow it down)

52.3 sec – ranger LB autoattack only
46.0 sec – ranger LB barrage spam

Well that was disappointing for my ranger. I tried adding hunter’s shot and was confused when the kill times increased. I did some math and it turns out it’s fairly worthless if you’re solo. The skill has a 0.4 coefficient vs autoattack’s 0.9, which costs you most of the extra damage you get from the 10% vulnerability. If you time it perfectly, you only gain 3% damage over plain autoattack. If you don’t time it perfectly, it interrupts autoattack wasting your time and lowering your DPS. Add in a pet and it’s marginally worth using, or add a party and it’s a great skill. But solo it’s not worth using.

Ok, so what about more realistic builds? I loaded up both characters with a rampager’s amulet (pow/pre/cond/vit), and added mesmer runes (pow/pre) to the armor. I put 30 points each into the power and precision trait lines. No major traits selected, though the passive minor ones were unavoidable. Final stats were:

Warrior: 1710 pow, 2189 pre, 65% crit, 2185 armor, 944 cond dam, 21662 hp, 0% crit dam
Ranger: 1710 pow, 2189 pre, 65% crit, 1980 armor, 644 cond dam, 18372 hp, 30% crit dam

22.0 sec – warrior LB autoattack
16.7 sec – warrior LB 2, F1 spam
14.0 sec – warrior rifle autoattack

18.7 sec – ranger LB autoattack
14.7 sec – ranger LB barrage spam (well, once)

Hmm, ranger isn’t looking as bad as I thought it would. How about warrior melee weapons?

11.7 sec – warrior GS 2 spam (again, once; I tried other combos but they were slower)
10.5 sec – warrior axe (tried all sorts of skills, times were about the same)

Ok, that’s a bit more like what it feels playing a warrior. Not as big a difference as I was expecting. Oh, I forgot the pet. What happens if I add the pet? (Note that this ranger build has zero points in BM.)

8.7 sec – ranger LB barrage spam w/ jaguar (running to golem from max LB range)

Yowza! How about some of the other ranger weapon combos?

18.1 sec – ranger SB autoattack, no flanking
11.3 sec – ranger SB autoattack, flanking
7.2 sec – ranger SB autoattack, flanking, w/ jaguar

9.4 sec – ranger sword, torch
6.1 sec – ranger sword, torch, w/ jaguar

As I said, these are purely weapons tests. No utilities nor traits used. Maybe warrior’s utilities and traits are a lot better than ranger’s. But in a straight-up weapons test with identical armor, amulet, and trait allocation, a ranger with sword/torch and not using a pet beats out the best I could manage with warrior. Add the pet and the ranger kills almost twice as quickly as warrior.

yes we may kill faster… but… warriors take longer to kill… well er wait scrap that my bunker ranger can outlast most “bunker warriors” (if they even exist)

straight up auto attack is not the best measure… if you were to play properly with all skills.. like 100blades then your going to see more balanced results..

I did some tests previously with Ranger SB vs War Rifle, and the results pretty much agrees with yours. Ranger SB out dpses War Rifle, even without a pet.

People can complain about Rangers being underpowered all they want, but when they state Rangers do less ranged damage than Wars/Thieves…It kinda irks me, because Ranger SB does far more single-target dps than War LB/Rifle and Thief SB/P/P.

Of course, SB doesn’t have the neat-o fire field War LB has, nor the spammable AoE/Infiltrator arrow of thief SB. But regardless, SB damage is quite good!

You are testing 1 vs 1 only

try to make a test group vs. group, there is the point where the Warrior shines and the Ranger sucks.

firebreathz.7692:

yes we may kill faster… but… warriors take longer to kill… well er wait scrap that my bunker ranger can outlast most “bunker warriors” (if they even exist)

That’s what I’m thinking (bunker builds aside). Maybe how much easier my warrior seems to play is because she just tanks damage better. Both of these are essentially glass cannon builds so perhaps not the best for comparing tanking ability. But the warrior does have 10% more toughness and 18% more hp, for a total of 30% more tankiness.

straight up auto attack is not the best measure… if you were to play properly with all skills.. like 100blades then your going to see more balanced results..

I did run tests spamming 100 blades (well, the target was dead before the cooldown on it was up, so used it once). I tried the other warrior GS skills too, but they just slowed her down. Ranger with sword + torch and no pet kills faster than the fastest time I was able to get with warrior greatsword.

Longtomsilver.8031:

You are testing 1 vs 1 only

try to make a test group vs. group, there is the point where the Warrior shines and the Ranger sucks.

The only ranged warrior AOE skills are longbow F1 and #2 (looks just like ranger SB #2 except it’s fire instead of poison). So warriors have no advantage vs a group there.

Ranger torch and sword can both hit up to 3 targets (actually I think torch #5 can hit 5), just like warrior greatsword. And in my test at least, sword+torch ranger out-DPSed warrior greatsword. So ranger does better there as well.

Solandri.9640:

Ranger torch and sword can both hit up to 3 targets (actually I think torch #5 can hit 5), just like warrior greatsword. And in my test at least, sword+torch ranger out-DPSed warrior greatsword. So ranger does better there as well.

How do you suppose a sword/torch ranger would fare with less condition damage? I know 644 isn’t a lot to begin with, but I’ve been toying with the idea of using a torch with a power build, mostly for the on demand fire field.

• Only 100b: 33k dmg in solo, my guildmate did it. Berzerker sett, ~80% crit dmg
• Rapid shot: my record was 11987 with other skills and 101% crit dmg.
  So yeah. When you trait a warrior, it will outrun you 3 times.
  Killing an “EMBER” in Malchor’s Leap solo:
• Tank Warrior with GS: 4 seconds
• My full Berserker with LB then GS: 13 seconds

So even a fully tank builded warrior can kill 3 times faster than our fully berserker rangers with ascended gears. No excuses. Terrible balance.

Solandri.9640:

The only ranged warrior AOE skills are longbow F1 and #2 (looks just like ranger SB #2 except it’s fire instead of poison). So warriors have no advantage vs a group there.

Warrior Longbow AE:
F1: huge fire combofield
2#: cone of arrows with burn (piercing targets, poison arrows from ranger don’t pierce)
3#: nice 3-4k crit AOE with 15 sec. cooldown
4#: Shoot an arrow that explodes on impact, blinding foes

Do you really tested all skills?
Try a double sword build with Warrior, you can stack 25 bleeds in seconds, its the highest single dpm build in game i tested so far.

I have to post this…

all that testing and the fastest kill for a heavy golem was 6.1 with ranger and pet…

try 2.7 secs with just a pet

completely destroyed

firebreathz.7692:

I have to post this…

all that testing and the fastest kill for a heavy golem was 6.1 with ranger and pet…

try 2.7 secs with just a pet

completely destroyed

hihi, funny

but try this on moving golem, you may be surprised (the sad way)

Longtomsilver.8031:

Warrior Longbow AE:
F1: huge fire combofield
2#: cone of arrows with burn (piercing targets, poison arrows from ranger don’t pierce)
3#: nice 3-4k crit AOE with 15 sec. cooldown
4#: Shoot an arrow that explodes on impact, blinding foes

Do you really tested all skills?

Thanks. I’m still relatively new to warrior. Yes I tested them, on the single target. I have ground targeting off so I don’t see a targeting circle from #3. Forgot that the little red dot in the icon means it’s AOE. The skill description does not list a radius. The #4 skill for some reason I thought only the blind effect was AOE.

The #3 skill did improve DPS slightly (it’s in the naked tests I ran – I also did tests with just spamming only #2 and only #3 but didn’t post them). But the improvement was small enough that I dropped it from later tests so I wouldn’t have to keep my eye on 3 skill timers, the autoattack bar, and the golem’s hp.

The #4 skill decreases DPS. A trade-off for the blind effect.

Ranger SB #2 pierces. I’ve gotten into a lot of trouble because of it.

Try a double sword build with Warrior, you can stack 25 bleeds in seconds, its the highest single dpm build in game i tested so far.

Great, that’s exactly what I was hoping someone would point me to. I really wasn’t sure what the highest DPS warrior weapon combo was. I tried single sword, but I forgot warriors can use swords in the off hand.

Does that heavy Golem move around and dodge arrows and pets or does it just stand there like a nice little Golem?

Pedra.4381:

Does that heavy Golem move around and dodge arrows and pets or does it just stand there like a nice little Golem?

While it’s good to question things, did you see his numbers without pets? (Especially SB!)

Ursan.7846:

While it’s good to question things, did you see his numbers without pets? (Especially SB!)

Yes, Ursan, I did and my immediate thought was that there are MANY impediments to achieving laboratory results in the real world. In this case, I chose one, movement, to point out that his results don’t mean a lot. It really wouldn’t matter if you could use a SB to one-shot a stationary dummy if it could NEVER be replicated outside that singular narrow parameter.

Pedra.4381:

Ursan.7846:

While it’s good to question things, did you see his numbers without pets? (Especially SB!)

Yes, Ursan, I did and my immediate thought was that there are MANY impediments to achieving laboratory results in the real world. In this case, I chose one, movement, to point out that his results don’t mean a lot. It really wouldn’t matter if you could use a SB to one-shot a stationary dummy if it could NEVER be replicated outside that singular narrow parameter.

while I understand the point your making I think your missing the fact that he is not going to just try replicate it.. its a dps comparison

so all you need is a dummy with x amount of hp
time how long it takes to kill
compare

we know this damage would not translate to a real fight the difference in the times will indicate how can pump out more dps in a given time frame..

Pedra.4381:

Ursan.7846:

While it’s good to question things, did you see his numbers without pets? (Especially SB!)

Yes, Ursan, I did and my immediate thought was that there are MANY impediments to achieving laboratory results in the real world. In this case, I chose one, movement, to point out that his results don’t mean a lot. It really wouldn’t matter if you could use a SB to one-shot a stationary dummy if it could NEVER be replicated outside that singular narrow parameter.

Well.

Yes. But how often will you run into a situation where you get a target that strafes constantly and never gets hit?

Very rarely.

While yes, you won’t hit 100% of your arrows, pretending like half your arrows miss in every situation in this game is pretty wrong. The OP doesn’t specifiy what aspect of the game he’s playing, but for PvE this is rarely an issue.

Again, while its true these situations happen rarely, it’s silly to denigrate it just because of a small subset of situations.

firebreathz.7692:

we know this damage would not translate to a real fight the difference in the times will indicate how can pump out more dps in a given time frame..

And therein lies the dichotomy. And I admit, I am a realist. I have little interest in controlled laboratory possibilities that have little real world practical application (or replication). But, I fear that ArenaNet does what they do based more on the types of tests the OP did rather than practical application (and yes, I’m more focused on WvW than PVE).

Beyond the movement and missing arrows concern, there’s one of survivability. If that Golem were beating on the Warrior and the Ranger, which of them would be around longer to dish out that DPS? A dead Ranger does zero DPS, just for a starting reference.

Ursan.7846

Again, while its true these situations happen rarely, it’s silly to denigrate it just because of a small subset of situations.

I didn’t realize pointing out flaws in methodology was equivalent to denigration. You’ll just have to trust me on this one, on these forums, I’ve yet to truly do the latter.

Pedra.4381:

I didn’t realize pointing out flaws in methodology was equivalent to denigration. You’ll just have to trust me on this one, on these forums, I’ve yet to truly do the latter.

The methodology is fine for what the purpose of this test is. Which is a simple weapons test, as the OP states. You have a problem because you think the conclusion shouldn’t apply to the real world. Which is okay. But the OP never tried to really do that.

Ursan.7846:

The methodology is fine for what the purpose of this test is. Which is a simple weapons test, as the OP states. You have a problem because you think the conclusion shouldn’t apply to the real world. Which is okay. But the OP never tried to really do that.

Ok, so a test without practical application or intent beyond the cerebral exercise. So then why do it? For the pleasure of discovery? See, it’s the purpose that I’m trying to understand.

As I stated in a previous post. My concern is that ArenaNet seems to use these sorts of “tests” to make changes to the game that affect Rangers in ALL applications (across all facets of the game world).

Pedra.4381:

Ok, so a test without practical application or intent beyond the cerebral exercise. So then why do it? For the pleasure of discovery? See, it’s the purpose that I’m trying to understand..

So that you know under optimal conditions, Rangers do a bunch more damage than Warriors.

It’s not perfect because it doesn’t cover many other factors (like traits, as the OP mentions). It’s not completely useless either. Because optimal situations do happen quite often (in PvE).

I say denigrate originally because you seem to be heavily implying that the results of the tests here are completely useless. Take everything with a nuanced view.

Pedra.4381:

Ursan.7846:

The methodology is fine for what the purpose of this test is. Which is a simple weapons test, as the OP states. You have a problem because you think the conclusion shouldn’t apply to the real world. Which is okay. But the OP never tried to really do that.

Ok, so a test without practical application or intent beyond the cerebral exercise. So then why do it? For the pleasure of discovery? See, it’s the purpose that I’m trying to understand.

As I stated in a previous post. My concern is that ArenaNet seems to use these sorts of “tests” to make changes to the game that affect Rangers in ALL applications (across all facets of the game world).

the purpose is to see the differences with the weapon sets damage yes it is a controlled test so the variation in results are minimal… the intent beyound the cerebral exercise is to see if or what differences there were and draw a conclusion from that..

they will have alot of other data, like on most unused weps most used, and general info like that that would help them evaluate our class..

firebreathz.7692:

I have to post this…

all that testing and the fastest kill for a heavy golem was 6.1 with ranger and pet…

try 2.7 secs with just a pet

completely destroyed

Nice. I would love to know what type of gear and stats. Started a ranger on Friday and should hit 80 today or tomorrow. Pet damage is mostly what I’m going for so I thought the video was great.

Ubi.4136:

firebreathz.7692:

I have to post this…

all that testing and the fastest kill for a heavy golem was 6.1 with ranger and pet…

try 2.7 secs with just a pet

completely destroyed

Nice. I would love to know what type of gear and stats. Started a ranger on Friday and should hit 80 today or tomorrow. Pet damage is mostly what I’m going for so I thought the video was great.

really wish i took a screenshot at the time..

i just looked at the traits found all the pet buffs ranked them in a rough order of best damage and then took them in the best order

not sure on runes

aloth i did have on kill sigils i charged up before hand..

was a very specific build just to see what a max pet could do.. as a viable build.. not so much

Edit: take alook at my current build that has nice pet damage with eagle burst.. could be more but i tend to go for healing for tpvp

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Beat-this-Bunker-Build-if-u-can/first#post1529360

Pedra.4381:

Ok, so a test without practical application or intent beyond the cerebral exercise. So then why do it? For the pleasure of discovery? See, it’s the purpose that I’m trying to understand.

Well to do to a proper comparison between A and B with factors 1, 2, 3, etc., you have to start by isolating the different factors. I ran tests without any factors, then added one factor (stats and trait points), then a second factor (pet/no pet). Once you’ve isolated how each of these factors affect DPS, it’s easy enough to calculate how different scenarios would turn out even if you didn’t test them.

e.g. I didn’t run tests naked and with pet, but because my methodology allows me to mathematically isolate out the pet’s DPS, I could go back and calculate the results of a naked + pet test. If you want to see how:

1/t = 1/tr + 1/tj
t = time to kill together
tr = time for ranger to kill alone
tj = time for jaguar to kill alone

I tested t and tr, but I didn’t test tj. But from those two, it’s easy enough to calculate it.

tr = 9.4 sec – ranger sword, torch
t = 6.1 sec – ranger sword, torch, w/ jaguar

So tj = 17.4 sec. Even though I didn’t test it, the jaguar would take 17.4 sec to kill the golem alone (ignoring error propagation here).

I could then take this and factor it into the naked tests to find how long it would take for a naked ranger to kill the golem (1/tn_wj = 1/trn + 1/tj). Heck, I could even calculate how long it would take the warrior to kill the heavy golem if a friendly ranger happened to order his jaguar to attack it at the same time. Or if both warrior + ranger + jaguar all attacked together.

As I stated in my OP, these results don’t mesh with how much easier the warrior “feels” when I play it. I agree with you that there are factors these tests are missing! I’m asking people what they theorize these factors might be, so I can isolate and measure those and add their effects to my damage calculations. You mentioned survivability, but someone already mentioned that and I went ahead and calculated that with the hp and toughness of the above builds, the warrior has 30% more survivability (ignoring the hp of the pet, which kinda swings things the other way in PvE).

What ever factors are going on in “real life” gameplay that are beneficial to the warrior but not to the ranger? People say warrior is easier (and my playing experience backs them up). But I want to know why is it easier? I want specific reasons, specific guesses. Not unsubstantiated assertions. e.g. Strafe dodging doesn’t favor either warrior or ranger using longbow. But you can’t strafe dodge the rifle – you have to roll dodge it.

Solandri.9640:

Well that was disappointing for my ranger. I tried adding hunter’s shot and was confused when the kill times increased. I did some math and it turns out it’s fairly worthless if you’re solo. The skill has a 0.4 coefficient vs autoattack’s 0.9, which costs you most of the extra damage you get from the 10% vulnerability. If you time it perfectly, you only gain 3% damage over plain autoattack. If you don’t time it perfectly, it interrupts autoattack wasting your time and lowering your DPS. Add in a pet and it’s marginally worth using, or add a party and it’s a great skill. But solo it’s not worth using.

That’s fine saying that Hunter’s Shot is worthless in combination with auto-attack, but it’s a de facto combo skill. You don’t use it in isolation, you use it with Barrage.

When you can do something remotely close to this as a ranger, we’ll talk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EUhUj1aL0yA

Solandri.9640:

I’m trying to decide what to do with my warrior and ranger, so what better way than a test. I took them up to the Mists and timed a bunch of kills. These were pure weapon tests — no utility skills, no traits. I don’t know the warrior utilities and traits well enough yet to make for a fair “good build” test IMHO.

The results surprised me.

First I did the naked tests. No jewelry, no armor, no traits. 916 power, 4% crit chance. I timed 3 kills of the heavy golem (adding a 4th or 5th if the variance between the three was more than a couple seconds). The longer times I only measured to the nearest second.

70.7 sec – warrior LB autoattack only
52.0 sec – warrior LB 3, 2 spam
36.7 sec – warrior LB 2, F1 spam
35.7 sec – warrior rifle autoattack only (the bleed stack is killer and other skills slow it down)

52.3 sec – ranger LB autoattack only
46.0 sec – ranger LB barrage spam

Well that was disappointing for my ranger. I tried adding hunter’s shot and was confused when the kill times increased. I did some math and it turns out it’s fairly worthless if you’re solo. The skill has a 0.4 coefficient vs autoattack’s 0.9, which costs you most of the extra damage you get from the 10% vulnerability. If you time it perfectly, you only gain 3% damage over plain autoattack. If you don’t time it perfectly, it interrupts autoattack wasting your time and lowering your DPS. Add in a pet and it’s marginally worth using, or add a party and it’s a great skill. But solo it’s not worth using.

Ok, so what about more realistic builds? I loaded up both characters with a rampager’s amulet (pow/pre/cond/vit), and added mesmer runes (pow/pre) to the armor. I put 30 points each into the power and precision trait lines. No major traits selected, though the passive minor ones were unavoidable. Final stats were:

Warrior: 1710 pow, 2189 pre, 65% crit, 2185 armor, 944 cond dam, 21662 hp, 0% crit dam
Ranger: 1710 pow, 2189 pre, 65% crit, 1980 armor, 644 cond dam, 18372 hp, 30% crit dam

22.0 sec – warrior LB autoattack
16.7 sec – warrior LB 2, F1 spam
14.0 sec – warrior rifle autoattack

18.7 sec – ranger LB autoattack
14.7 sec – ranger LB barrage spam (well, once)

Hmm, ranger isn’t looking as bad as I thought it would. How about warrior melee weapons?

11.7 sec – warrior GS 2 spam (again, once; I tried other combos but they were slower)
10.5 sec – warrior axe (tried all sorts of skills, times were about the same)

Ok, that’s a bit more like what it feels playing a warrior. Not as big a difference as I was expecting. Oh, I forgot the pet. What happens if I add the pet? (Note that this ranger build has zero points in BM.)

8.7 sec – ranger LB barrage spam w/ jaguar (running to golem from max LB range)

Yowza! How about some of the other ranger weapon combos?

18.1 sec – ranger SB autoattack, no flanking
11.3 sec – ranger SB autoattack, flanking
7.2 sec – ranger SB autoattack, flanking, w/ jaguar

9.4 sec – ranger sword, torch
6.1 sec – ranger sword, torch, w/ jaguar

As I said, these are purely weapons tests. No utilities nor traits used. Maybe warrior’s utilities and traits are a lot better than ranger’s. But in a straight-up weapons test with identical armor, amulet, and trait allocation, a ranger with sword/torch and not using a pet beats out the best I could manage with warrior. Add the pet and the ranger kills almost twice as quickly as warrior.

Lol sorry, this isnt true. Ranger + pet kills about as fast as a warrior. You just built your warrior wrong, go full glass on your warrior and ranger, use axe and just auto attack a heavy target, then let ranger auto attack with pet and w/e wep u want, warrior kills faster, throw in f1 abilities for the warrior and its not even close. Rifle vs rangers LB is a joke, try this, f1 + volley vs rangers barrage + rapid fire + pet attacks, warrior will win because the ramp up time for barrage + rapid fire. Point is, in pvp most people dont just stand still, and thats where every class has an advantage, pets account for about 50% of our damage, but they gotta hit to be effective.

Solandri.9640:

What ever factors are going on in “real life” gameplay that are beneficial to the warrior but not to the ranger? People say warrior is easier (and my playing experience backs them up). But I want to know why is it easier? I want specific reasons, specific guesses. Not unsubstantiated assertions. e.g. Strafe dodging doesn’t favor either warrior or ranger using longbow. But you can’t strafe dodge the rifle – you have to roll dodge it.

Solandri, thanks for the expanded explanation. I’m not picking on you (or others who seem to see the benefit of your tests), I just don’t see the value or applicability beyond the scenario of the test.

But, I will attempt to answer (at least partially) the query you pose. A Warrior is never without 45%-50% of his damage potential in a fight. If a Ranger’s target is moving our pet can’t hit it (at least not consistently). If our pet is dead, it’s useless and our potential reduced until we can get another in the fight. That’s real world issues that you can’t replicate in your tests, unless you can somehow make your Warriors weapons do 45%-50% less damage; but why would you since it’s not something he would encounter?

I often run with a Necro in WvW and when the stars align, we can kill stuff so fast I’m certain they are scratching their heads and saying “WTH”. But how often do those stars align? And why do I need to wait for those “situations” when there are other classes that do it regularly with far less work and without the need of that assistance?

I have to believe that ArenaNet bases their design decisions on some data set and not some arbitrary instance of a developer walking in, doughnut in hand and saying, “Heh guys, I think we should make this change to Rangers today”. My fear though is that those “data sets” are the results of tests conducted very much like yours.

Pedra.4381:

Solandri.9640:

What ever factors are going on in “real life” gameplay that are beneficial to the warrior but not to the ranger? People say warrior is easier (and my playing experience backs them up). But I want to know why is it easier? I want specific reasons, specific guesses. Not unsubstantiated assertions. e.g. Strafe dodging doesn’t favor either warrior or ranger using longbow. But you can’t strafe dodge the rifle – you have to roll dodge it.

Solandri, thanks for the expanded explanation. I’m not picking on you (or others who seem to see the benefit of your tests), I just don’t see the value or applicability beyond the scenario of the test.

But, I will attempt to answer (at least partially) the query you pose. A Warrior is never without 45%-50% of his damage potential in a fight. If a Ranger’s target is moving our pet can’t hit it (at least not consistently). If our pet is dead, it’s useless and our potential reduced until we can get another in the fight. That’s real world issues that you can’t replicate in your tests, unless you can somehow make your Warriors weapons do 45%-50% less damage; but why would you since it’s not something he would encounter?

I often run with a Necro in WvW and when the stars align, we can kill stuff so fast I’m certain they are scratching their heads and saying “WTH”. But how often do those stars align? And why do I need to wait for those “situations” when there are other classes that do it regularly with far less work and without the need of that assistance?

I have to believe that ArenaNet bases their design decisions on some data set and not some arbitrary instance of a developer walking in, doughnut in hand and saying, “Heh guys, I think we should make this change to Rangers today”. My fear though is that those “data sets” are the results of tests conducted very much like yours.

Yea dude necros are quite scary. They pump out some insane damage.

Thing with dps warrior is, they can keep up fury, stacks of might and 100% crit chance (or close to it) most of the time. 25 stacks of might ALL the time if grouped with other warriors.

That makes crit damage on them pretty scary and a big jump in dps

Warrior: 1710 pow, 2189 pre, 65% crit, 2185 armor, 944 cond dam, 21662 hp,
0% crit dam
Ranger: 1710 pow, 2189 pre, 65% crit, 1980 armor, 644 cond dam, 18372 hp,
30% crit dam

reeeeeeeeeeaalyy?

Sndhatch.6907:

Warrior: 1710 pow, 2189 pre, 65% crit, 2185 armor, 944 cond dam, 21662 hp,
0% crit dam
Ranger: 1710 pow, 2189 pre, 65% crit, 1980 armor, 644 cond dam, 18372 hp,
30% crit dam

reeeeeeeeeeaalyy?

Yea rofl thats why I called him kitten Wtf is he doing with those stats trying to compare damage. Thats like taking a condi warrior with a rifle and a power ranger and comparing their burst, its silly and stupid. Put zerker gear on warrior with a 30/10/0/0/30 build and see how that changes things.

Sndhatch.6907:

Warrior: 1710 pow, 2189 pre, 65% crit, 2185 armor, 944 cond dam, 21662 hp,
0% crit dam
Ranger: 1710 pow, 2189 pre, 65% crit, 1980 armor, 644 cond dam, 18372 hp,
30% crit dam

reeeeeeeeeeaalyy?

You know, I didn’t notice this the first time through. Yeah, that lack of critical damage on the warrior really skews the results in the ranger’s favor.

firebreathz.7692:

Ubi.4136:

firebreathz.7692:

I have to post this…

all that testing and the fastest kill for a heavy golem was 6.1 with ranger and pet…

try 2.7 secs with just a pet

completely destroyed

Nice. I would love to know what type of gear and stats. Started a ranger on Friday and should hit 80 today or tomorrow. Pet damage is mostly what I’m going for so I thought the video was great.

really wish i took a screenshot at the time..

i just looked at the traits found all the pet buffs ranked them in a rough order of best damage and then took them in the best order

not sure on runes

aloth i did have on kill sigils i charged up before hand..

was a very specific build just to see what a max pet could do.. as a viable build.. not so much

Edit: take alook at my current build that has nice pet damage with eagle burst.. could be more but i tend to go for healing for tpvp

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Beat-this-Bunker-Build-if-u-can/first#post1529360

Thanks Fire.

Quarktastic.1027:

Sndhatch.6907:

Warrior: 1710 pow, 2189 pre, 65% crit, 2185 armor, 944 cond dam, 21662 hp,
0% crit dam
Ranger: 1710 pow, 2189 pre, 65% crit, 1980 armor, 644 cond dam, 18372 hp,
30% crit dam

reeeeeeeeeeaalyy?

You know, I didn’t notice this the first time through. Yeah, that lack of critical damage on the warrior really skews the results in the ranger’s favor.

ALOT. Its almost biased towards the ranger.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

Sndhatch.6907:

Warrior: 1710 pow, 2189 pre, 65% crit, 2185 armor, 944 cond dam, 21662 hp,
0% crit dam
Ranger: 1710 pow, 2189 pre, 65% crit, 1980 armor, 644 cond dam, 18372 hp,
30% crit dam

reeeeeeeeeeaalyy?

Yea rofl thats why I called him kitten Wtf is he doing with those stats trying to compare damage. Thats like taking a condi warrior with a rifle and a power ranger and comparing their burst, its silly and stupid. Put zerker gear on warrior with a 30/10/0/0/30 build and see how that changes things.

That’s an unavoidable consequence of having a 30/30 pow/pre build on both characters. Warrior has condition damage in their precision line. Ranger has critical damage in their precision line. But you knew that, right?

I will try the build you suggest next chance I get.

Edit: actually, I don’t even have to run tests to factor it out. At 65% crit chance, the warrior with 0% crit damage has a non-condition DPS of 1 + .5*.65. If it had 30% crit damage, DPS would rise to 1 + (.5+.3)*(.65), an increase of 14.7%.

The warrior’s kill times would decrease to 87% what I measured. The 11.7 sec greatsword time would become 10.2 sec, still slower than ranger sword + torch. The warrior axe time would become 9.2 sec, barely beating out ranger sword + torch, but still far behind sword + torch + jaguar.

Aegis.9724:

Thing with dps warrior is, they can keep up fury, stacks of might and 100% crit chance (or close to it) most of the time. 25 stacks of might ALL the time if grouped with other warriors.

That’s the impression I’m getting watching videos of level 80 warriors doing dungeon runs.

However, my warrior is still low level and rarely has might or fury. Yet she still feels “easier” to play than my ranger. (I also started a second ranger who’s about the same level, so I’m not comparing to my first character where I was learning how everything worked.)

Pedra.4381:

Ursan.7846:

While it’s good to question things, did you see his numbers without pets? (Especially SB!)

Yes, Ursan, I did and my immediate thought was that there are MANY impediments to achieving laboratory results in the real world. In this case, I chose one, movement, to point out that his results don’t mean a lot. It really wouldn’t matter if you could use a SB to one-shot a stationary dummy if it could NEVER be replicated outside that singular narrow parameter.

Since we’re talking about a golem, pets don’t really miss in pve, but i cant speak for pvp.

Thanks for this, I’ve been running around cof with sword warhorn, sword dagger and double jaguars tearing stuff up.

Small difference in the crit damage now, yes, but it is a percentile difference, and glass cannon is all about stacking stuff with percent synergy.

Don’t forget that warriors get 2x what rangers do out of trait selection as well.

*edit

Besides warriors getting stuff like arrow penetration and bow cooldowns as one trait instead of two, and healing shouts / banners blowing ranger support out of the water.
I’m sure everyone knows what forceful greatsword is. Assuming a warrior gets 10 stacks of might from it (a lowball), that trait is worth 350 power and condition damage. So for 20 trait points, warrior is getting 1100 stat points.

Your post is very, very nice for pointing out the impact that crappy traits and reliance on conditions & pets has on the ranger though.

I lol when I see ppl saying warrior is easier to survive… if you compare them as ranged, then ranger has a lot more survi – 2 KDs on wolves, faster endurance regen, if we add utilites: ranger has LR and 25% run speed vs warrs signet for faster endu regen and what? Endure pain? I tried warrior with rifle, and dmg was nice, but any thief could kill me, as I couldn’t defend against them (WvW). As LB/GS ranger I have LB 4., GS 4. when he tries to backstab and 3. to make huge gap.

In many games, different classes are on different damage tables. Is that the case in GW2 ?

If that isn’t the case, then these tests don’t mean much. I am only level 30 on my Warrior but have noticed something right away. Their traits/abilities have a much larger impact on their damage than my Ranger. Already I easily get 90% crit chance on the Warrior without really trying. I am already looking for ways to increase the actual crit damage. The Power/Fury buffs are endless on a Warrior and the burst is insane.