Ditching pets as profession mechanic?
Druid was obviously designed with Raids in mind. The only thing that minimizing pet interaction can tell us is that they weren’t very confident that pets would be of any use in raids.
It could also be that the Druid team is aware that the Ranger focusing support/team interaction on just it’s own pet instead of the party is bad design and are finally moving away from it.
Pet’s probably not going anywhere but we will be seeing a lot more party utility and/or things that buff the Ranger directly.
Something I think we can all agree has been a long time coming.
There are new pets that look very fun and there’ll be some balance changes to the core professions. They’ll be on twitch later.
Don’t worry!
The Scrapper was the only profession which didn’t got an improved profession mechanic, but atleast the Engineer mechanic was integrated into the Scrapper.
The Druid however gets a completely new mechanic and the only interaction with the old mechanic, the pets, is one adept trait. I wont ask the theatrical question wether or not the pets are considered broken beyond repair, but I would like to know what the devs have planned for the pet. Because right now it certainly seems like something they would want to avoid rather than to improve.
Well based on the pets that were previewed on the stream, they ALL had base condi damage, the non condi pet had 700, the condi pet had 1000, so this has a lot of potential to buff pets damage substantially through some traits such as companions might and sharpened edges or stones w/e that trait in skirmishing is called.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
Well, I’m not too happy about this, since I think that the pet can very well be a cool and engaging mechanic that would also work with the Druid. Just not in its current form.
As always, I am happy to point to my signature, where I have put atleast some thought in how the pet could be made more engaging.
The Scrapper was the only profession which didn’t got an improved profession mechanic, but atleast the Engineer mechanic was integrated into the Scrapper.
The Druid however gets a completely new mechanic and the only interaction with the old mechanic, the pets, is one adept trait. I wont ask the theatrical question wether or not the pets are considered broken beyond repair, but I would like to know what the devs have planned for the pet. Because right now it certainly seems like something they would want to avoid rather than to improve.
Well based on the pets that were previewed on the stream, they ALL had base condi damage, the non condi pet had 700, the condi pet had 1000, so this has a lot of potential to buff pets damage substantially through some traits such as companions might and sharpened edges or stones w/e that trait in skirmishing is called.
But those pets still don’t increase the synergy with the Druid, they still wont be any more effective than the Ranger (or Druid) himself and they wont fix the overall clunkyness of the pet design in general.
Why would I want a pet that deals damage if I would be just as good in delivering that damage myself? One could argue that now that the Druid focusses more on supporting and not on dealing damage, we could use the pets to deal damage (yay!… or nay?), but I want the pet to support me. The pet shouldn’t do its own thing, it should enhance my capability. Just as any other profession mechanic enhances the durability of the respective profession.
(edited by Wuselknusel.4082)
The Scrapper was the only profession which didn’t got an improved profession mechanic, but atleast the Engineer mechanic was integrated into the Scrapper.
The Druid however gets a completely new mechanic and the only interaction with the old mechanic, the pets, is one adept trait. I wont ask the theatrical question wether or not the pets are considered broken beyond repair, but I would like to know what the devs have planned for the pet. Because right now it certainly seems like something they would want to avoid rather than to improve.
Well based on the pets that were previewed on the stream, they ALL had base condi damage, the non condi pet had 700, the condi pet had 1000, so this has a lot of potential to buff pets damage substantially through some traits such as companions might and sharpened edges or stones w/e that trait in skirmishing is called.
But those pets still don’t increase the synergy with the Druid, they still wont be any more effective than the Ranger (or Druid) himself and they wont fix the overall clunkyness of the pet design in general.
Why would I want a pet that deals damage if I would be just as good in delivering that damage myself? One could argue that now that the Druid focusses more on supporting and not on dealing damage, we could use the pets to deal damage (yay!… or nay?), but I want the pet to support me. The pet shouldn’t do its own thing, it should enhance my capability. Just as any other profession mechanic enhances the durability of the respective profession.
Then take a fernhound, or a moa, or one of several bears, or a pig, we have support pets, no one takes them, not because they’re bad, but because no one ever wants to take support.
the point of pets having their own stats is so that you can have them do their own thing, or help you double down on whatever your role is, it’s up to you, there’s a large variety of pets, and if they go through and rebalance some of the kittenty abilities on pets (like the vuln ability on moas, and giving many pets the condi damage they need) then our pool of pets just gets larger.
and as several people pointed out in several threads already, the pets had very little startup to their F2s, i’d be completely baffled if that was only present on the NEW pets. Wait until we see how Ranger has changed in the balance preview before you start complaining about the pet.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
The Scrapper was the only profession which didn’t got an improved profession mechanic, but atleast the Engineer mechanic was integrated into the Scrapper.
The Druid however gets a completely new mechanic and the only interaction with the old mechanic, the pets, is one adept trait. I wont ask the theatrical question wether or not the pets are considered broken beyond repair, but I would like to know what the devs have planned for the pet. Because right now it certainly seems like something they would want to avoid rather than to improve.
Well based on the pets that were previewed on the stream, they ALL had base condi damage, the non condi pet had 700, the condi pet had 1000, so this has a lot of potential to buff pets damage substantially through some traits such as companions might and sharpened edges or stones w/e that trait in skirmishing is called.
But those pets still don’t increase the synergy with the Druid, they still wont be any more effective than the Ranger (or Druid) himself and they wont fix the overall clunkyness of the pet design in general.
Why would I want a pet that deals damage if I would be just as good in delivering that damage myself? One could argue that now that the Druid focusses more on supporting and not on dealing damage, we could use the pets to deal damage (yay!… or nay?), but I want the pet to support me. The pet shouldn’t do its own thing, it should enhance my capability. Just as any other profession mechanic enhances the durability of the respective profession.
Then take a fernhound, or a moa, or one of several bears, or a pig, we have support pets, no one takes them, not because they’re bad, but because no one ever wants to take support.
the point of pets having their own stats is so that you can have them do their own thing, or help you double down on whatever your role is, it’s up to you, there’s a large variety of pets, and if they go through and rebalance some of the kittenty abilities on pets (like the vuln ability on moas, and giving many pets the condi damage they need) then our pool of pets just gets larger.
and as several people pointed out in several threads already, the pets had very little startup to their F2s, i’d be completely baffled if that was only present on the NEW pets. Wait until we see how Ranger has changed in the balance preview before you start complaining about the pet.
If I’d take any of those pets, I’d cut down my own damage. And the support those pets provide is fairly limited, if not to say completely kittenty.
I have a version linked in my signature that would give the Ranger way more control over the pet while giving each pet a distinct role that is not primarily damage.
The Scrapper was the only profession which didn’t got an improved profession mechanic, but atleast the Engineer mechanic was integrated into the Scrapper.
The Druid however gets a completely new mechanic and the only interaction with the old mechanic, the pets, is one adept trait. I wont ask the theatrical question wether or not the pets are considered broken beyond repair, but I would like to know what the devs have planned for the pet. Because right now it certainly seems like something they would want to avoid rather than to improve.
Well based on the pets that were previewed on the stream, they ALL had base condi damage, the non condi pet had 700, the condi pet had 1000, so this has a lot of potential to buff pets damage substantially through some traits such as companions might and sharpened edges or stones w/e that trait in skirmishing is called.
But those pets still don’t increase the synergy with the Druid, they still wont be any more effective than the Ranger (or Druid) himself and they wont fix the overall clunkyness of the pet design in general.
Why would I want a pet that deals damage if I would be just as good in delivering that damage myself? One could argue that now that the Druid focusses more on supporting and not on dealing damage, we could use the pets to deal damage (yay!… or nay?), but I want the pet to support me. The pet shouldn’t do its own thing, it should enhance my capability. Just as any other profession mechanic enhances the durability of the respective profession.
Then take a fernhound, or a moa, or one of several bears, or a pig, we have support pets, no one takes them, not because they’re bad, but because no one ever wants to take support.
the point of pets having their own stats is so that you can have them do their own thing, or help you double down on whatever your role is, it’s up to you, there’s a large variety of pets, and if they go through and rebalance some of the kittenty abilities on pets (like the vuln ability on moas, and giving many pets the condi damage they need) then our pool of pets just gets larger.
and as several people pointed out in several threads already, the pets had very little startup to their F2s, i’d be completely baffled if that was only present on the NEW pets. Wait until we see how Ranger has changed in the balance preview before you start complaining about the pet.
If I’d take any of those pets, I’d cut down my own damage. And the support those pets provide is fairly limited, if not to say completely kittenty.
I have a version linked in my signature that would give the Ranger way more control over the pet while giving each pet a distinct role that is not primarily damage.
If you want support, you take a support pet, your damage will go down just like if you took support yourself, if you want more damage, take a damage pet. You’re essentially complaining that you’d lose damage for taking clerics, despite wanting the healing. Well no kitten.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
The Scrapper was the only profession which didn’t got an improved profession mechanic, but atleast the Engineer mechanic was integrated into the Scrapper.
The Druid however gets a completely new mechanic and the only interaction with the old mechanic, the pets, is one adept trait. I wont ask the theatrical question wether or not the pets are considered broken beyond repair, but I would like to know what the devs have planned for the pet. Because right now it certainly seems like something they would want to avoid rather than to improve.
Well based on the pets that were previewed on the stream, they ALL had base condi damage, the non condi pet had 700, the condi pet had 1000, so this has a lot of potential to buff pets damage substantially through some traits such as companions might and sharpened edges or stones w/e that trait in skirmishing is called.
But those pets still don’t increase the synergy with the Druid, they still wont be any more effective than the Ranger (or Druid) himself and they wont fix the overall clunkyness of the pet design in general.
Why would I want a pet that deals damage if I would be just as good in delivering that damage myself? One could argue that now that the Druid focusses more on supporting and not on dealing damage, we could use the pets to deal damage (yay!… or nay?), but I want the pet to support me. The pet shouldn’t do its own thing, it should enhance my capability. Just as any other profession mechanic enhances the durability of the respective profession.
Then take a fernhound, or a moa, or one of several bears, or a pig, we have support pets, no one takes them, not because they’re bad, but because no one ever wants to take support.
the point of pets having their own stats is so that you can have them do their own thing, or help you double down on whatever your role is, it’s up to you, there’s a large variety of pets, and if they go through and rebalance some of the kittenty abilities on pets (like the vuln ability on moas, and giving many pets the condi damage they need) then our pool of pets just gets larger.
and as several people pointed out in several threads already, the pets had very little startup to their F2s, i’d be completely baffled if that was only present on the NEW pets. Wait until we see how Ranger has changed in the balance preview before you start complaining about the pet.
If I’d take any of those pets, I’d cut down my own damage. And the support those pets provide is fairly limited, if not to say completely kittenty.
I have a version linked in my signature that would give the Ranger way more control over the pet while giving each pet a distinct role that is not primarily damage.If you want support, you take a support pet, your damage will go down just like if you took support yourself, if you want more damage, take a damage pet. You’re essentially complaining that you’d lose damage for taking clerics, despite wanting the healing. Well no kitten.
The pet is cutting away from the Ranger’s damage. You should know that very well. And you should also know very well that the pet has pathing issues and acts not very smart in general. Why should I entrust something that is so unreliable with damage that was taken away from me?
The pet is just one giant walking surprise bag. Sometimes is succeeds, sometimes it doesn’t. With the potential exception of the Mesmer, no other class has to rely on a mechanic that simply might not work.
And no, I don’t want healing from my pet. I want the pet to do what I tell it to do and not what it thinks might be best in the situation.
(edited by Wuselknusel.4082)
The Scrapper was the only profession which didn’t got an improved profession mechanic, but atleast the Engineer mechanic was integrated into the Scrapper.
The Druid however gets a completely new mechanic and the only interaction with the old mechanic, the pets, is one adept trait. I wont ask the theatrical question wether or not the pets are considered broken beyond repair, but I would like to know what the devs have planned for the pet. Because right now it certainly seems like something they would want to avoid rather than to improve.
Well based on the pets that were previewed on the stream, they ALL had base condi damage, the non condi pet had 700, the condi pet had 1000, so this has a lot of potential to buff pets damage substantially through some traits such as companions might and sharpened edges or stones w/e that trait in skirmishing is called.
But those pets still don’t increase the synergy with the Druid, they still wont be any more effective than the Ranger (or Druid) himself and they wont fix the overall clunkyness of the pet design in general.
Why would I want a pet that deals damage if I would be just as good in delivering that damage myself? One could argue that now that the Druid focusses more on supporting and not on dealing damage, we could use the pets to deal damage (yay!… or nay?), but I want the pet to support me. The pet shouldn’t do its own thing, it should enhance my capability. Just as any other profession mechanic enhances the durability of the respective profession.
Then take a fernhound, or a moa, or one of several bears, or a pig, we have support pets, no one takes them, not because they’re bad, but because no one ever wants to take support.
the point of pets having their own stats is so that you can have them do their own thing, or help you double down on whatever your role is, it’s up to you, there’s a large variety of pets, and if they go through and rebalance some of the kittenty abilities on pets (like the vuln ability on moas, and giving many pets the condi damage they need) then our pool of pets just gets larger.
and as several people pointed out in several threads already, the pets had very little startup to their F2s, i’d be completely baffled if that was only present on the NEW pets. Wait until we see how Ranger has changed in the balance preview before you start complaining about the pet.
If I’d take any of those pets, I’d cut down my own damage. And the support those pets provide is fairly limited, if not to say completely kittenty.
I have a version linked in my signature that would give the Ranger way more control over the pet while giving each pet a distinct role that is not primarily damage.If you want support, you take a support pet, your damage will go down just like if you took support yourself, if you want more damage, take a damage pet. You’re essentially complaining that you’d lose damage for taking clerics, despite wanting the healing. Well no kitten.
The pet is cutting away from the Ranger’s damage. You should know that very well. And you should also know very well that the pet has pathing issues and acts not very smart in general. Why should I entrust something that is so unreliable with damage that was taken away from me?
The pet is just one giant walking surprise bag. Sometimes is succeeds, sometimes it doesn’t. With the potential exception of the Mesmer, no other class has to rely on a mechanic that simply might not work.
And no, I don’t want healing from my pet. I want the pet to do what I tell it to do and not what it thinks might be best in the situation.
The pet isn’t some surprise bag, the fact you think it is shows that you’re inexperienced as a ranger. The pets behave a very specific way, and any half decent ranger knows what their pet is going to do. They’re hardly unreliable, they can be slow to activate their F2 due to the insanely long cast time, and their pathing can be pretty kittenty at times, but it’s pretty apparent that they’re changing that.
As I’ve mentioned earlier, the new pets activate their F2 very quickly, so there’s a very good chance ALL our pets are getting that love. They’ve said repeatedly that our pets (and AI in general) are getting some much needed love, so calm your kittens and wait until we see how everything changes before acting like the pet is staying the same way.
Even as is, the pet is not nearly as bad as you’re making it out to be, and if you took like 10 minutes and learned what your pet does and when, and pay attention to your pet you’ll be fine. As many good rangers have pointed out multiple times on this forum, ranger is an easy profession to do OK with, but hard to do well with because you need to pay attention to your pet. So i suggest you sit down and learn your pet and learn to watch where he is before you start kittening.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
The Scrapper was the only profession which didn’t got an improved profession mechanic, but atleast the Engineer mechanic was integrated into the Scrapper.
The Druid however gets a completely new mechanic and the only interaction with the old mechanic, the pets, is one adept trait. I wont ask the theatrical question wether or not the pets are considered broken beyond repair, but I would like to know what the devs have planned for the pet. Because right now it certainly seems like something they would want to avoid rather than to improve.
Well based on the pets that were previewed on the stream, they ALL had base condi damage, the non condi pet had 700, the condi pet had 1000, so this has a lot of potential to buff pets damage substantially through some traits such as companions might and sharpened edges or stones w/e that trait in skirmishing is called.
But those pets still don’t increase the synergy with the Druid, they still wont be any more effective than the Ranger (or Druid) himself and they wont fix the overall clunkyness of the pet design in general.
Why would I want a pet that deals damage if I would be just as good in delivering that damage myself? One could argue that now that the Druid focusses more on supporting and not on dealing damage, we could use the pets to deal damage (yay!… or nay?), but I want the pet to support me. The pet shouldn’t do its own thing, it should enhance my capability. Just as any other profession mechanic enhances the durability of the respective profession.
Then take a fernhound, or a moa, or one of several bears, or a pig, we have support pets, no one takes them, not because they’re bad, but because no one ever wants to take support.
the point of pets having their own stats is so that you can have them do their own thing, or help you double down on whatever your role is, it’s up to you, there’s a large variety of pets, and if they go through and rebalance some of the kittenty abilities on pets (like the vuln ability on moas, and giving many pets the condi damage they need) then our pool of pets just gets larger.
and as several people pointed out in several threads already, the pets had very little startup to their F2s, i’d be completely baffled if that was only present on the NEW pets. Wait until we see how Ranger has changed in the balance preview before you start complaining about the pet.
If I’d take any of those pets, I’d cut down my own damage. And the support those pets provide is fairly limited, if not to say completely kittenty.
I have a version linked in my signature that would give the Ranger way more control over the pet while giving each pet a distinct role that is not primarily damage.If you want support, you take a support pet, your damage will go down just like if you took support yourself, if you want more damage, take a damage pet. You’re essentially complaining that you’d lose damage for taking clerics, despite wanting the healing. Well no kitten.
The pet is cutting away from the Ranger’s damage. You should know that very well. And you should also know very well that the pet has pathing issues and acts not very smart in general. Why should I entrust something that is so unreliable with damage that was taken away from me?
The pet is just one giant walking surprise bag. Sometimes is succeeds, sometimes it doesn’t. With the potential exception of the Mesmer, no other class has to rely on a mechanic that simply might not work.
And no, I don’t want healing from my pet. I want the pet to do what I tell it to do and not what it thinks might be best in the situation.
The pet isn’t some surprise bag, the fact you think it is shows that you’re inexperienced as a ranger. The pets behave a very specific way, and any half decent ranger knows what their pet is going to do. They’re hardly unreliable, they can be slow to activate their F2 due to the insanely long cast time, and their pathing can be pretty kittenty at times, but it’s pretty apparent that they’re changing that.
As I’ve mentioned earlier, the new pets activate their F2 very quickly, so there’s a very good chance ALL our pets are getting that love. They’ve said repeatedly that our pets (and AI in general) are getting some much needed love, so calm your kittens and wait until we see how everything changes before acting like the pet is staying the same way.
Even as is, the pet is not nearly as bad as you’re making it out to be, and if you took like 10 minutes and learned what your pet does and when, and pay attention to your pet you’ll be fine. As many good rangers have pointed out multiple times on this forum, ranger is an easy profession to do OK with, but hard to do well with because you need to pay attention to your pet. So i suggest you sit down and learn your pet and learn to watch where he is before you start kittening.
Can you control when and how your pets use their skills? Can you control where your pets are running? No you can’t.
And please do not try to argue with “Oh, you can totally control where the pets go and what skills they activate. You just have to work around it”.
Why it is my duty to eliminate all the possible shortcomings the pet could have? Why do I have to fight my profession mechanic when I want to fight the enemy?
I am not arguing against having to care for my pet and having to keep an eye on it. But I’m arguing against having to play babysitter for a deaf child.
(edited by Wuselknusel.4082)
Half the elite specs basically leave the old profession mechanic alone while adding a new mechanic of some sort. Theif, Warrior, Ele, Herald… Seems whatever idea had of every elite spec making sweeping changes to existing profession mechanics fell by the wayside at some point (or was deemed not so central that it needs to apply everywhere). So I don’t really think Druid is anything out of the ordinary with leaving pets mostly alone.
And I really don’t think tying any “needed” pet changes to Druid would be a good idea anyway. The base class needs to function, not depend on its elite spec to be fixed.
Warrior’s new mechanic is leaving the original mechanic not touched? It is literally a double up on the old mechanic. Ele’s can now overload their original mechanic. Herald can channel all his skills at once. The Thief has atleast great synergy with his other traitlines. How are those not connected to their old mechanics?
(edited by Wuselknusel.4082)
Heals have great synergy with pets, if you’re just looking for synergy. Having a great amount of AoE heals and cleanse will make it easier to keep your pet alive. Which will help overall pet usefulness and helps fix one of the major issues with pets, which is keeping them alive during tougher encounters.
Also, healing your pet will give you extra growth to your Celestial Form, letting you build that up faster. So you are going to want to use that synergy.
Your pet is taking up a slot that otherwise a player could have taken. And I fail to see how that would be synergy. How is healing your pet synergy by any means?
Your pet is taking up a slot that otherwise a player could have taken. And I fail to see how that would be synergy. How is healing your pet synergy by any means?
Healing your pet keeps it alive longer. Keeping it alive longer allows your pet to do what it does (damage, CC, distracting enemies, conditions, ect) more efficiently, because a dead pet can’t do any of that. AoE healing has a direct benefit to the pet mechanic, in that it allows it to function more reliably in difficult encounters.
What the Druid can do has a direct benefit on how effectively the pet mechanic works. Druid helps the pet. One entity helping another, one mechanic benefitting another = synergy.
And Druids are going to be more reliant on the pet as well, since if they’re busy healing all the time they won’t be putting out much direct damage. The pet is going to be making up a larger percentage of the overall damage output Druids are going to have.
As for the pet “taking a slot from players”… heals will likely prioritize players over pets, and I’m half suspecting that some of the improvements to pets that Irenio was mentioning is going to perhaps involve taking them out of the AoE limit in some way, since otherwise the new healing skill is rather out of line with other Ranger heals which all directly benefit the pet as well as the Ranger himself (well, other than Water Spirit, but we all know how well that one works >.>). But we’ll have to see how those balance changes come out, I suppose.
Healing the pet is not synergy. The trait Cultivated synergy, that is synergy. But it’s the only synergy the pet has with the Druid. And you would have to heal the pet a lot less if it wouldn’t be so stupid.
There is no more synergy in healing your pet than there is in healing your allies. And if that is considered synergy, then I can happily renounce it.
How is healing not synergy? Synergy is when two entities/mechanics play off one another to create a more effective end result. Having more options to heal the pet keeps the pet alive longer so that it can survive battles and remain useful. The pet dying has been a big problem of rangers for a long time and now we have more tools to manage it.
Druid also works really well with pets by giving us more access to immobilize and control effects. Rangers have always mixed hard and soft control to help the pet hit more frequently and set up pet bursts. Druid will be even better at that than base ranger.
The pet dying has been a big problem of rangers for a long time and now we have more tools to manage it.
That has always been on Anet to make the pet dodge when we dodge and to reduce their susceptibility to AoE’s.
All the healing in the world isn’t going to keep a Jaguar alive in a WvW zerg and Anet will have to probably code in strait up immunity to a lot of Raid AoE to make pets even remotely useful there.
We shouldn’t have to actively work to keep the pet alive when we have been balanced with the expectation of a 100% alive and functioning dps pet. If the pet + player = more than another single class then it would be warranted, but not as it currently is.
How is healing not synergy? Synergy is when two entities/mechanics play off one another to create a more effective end result. Having more options to heal the pet keeps the pet alive longer so that it can survive battles and remain useful. The pet dying has been a big problem of rangers for a long time and now we have more tools to manage it.
Druid also works really well with pets by giving us more access to immobilize and control effects. Rangers have always mixed hard and soft control to help the pet hit more frequently and set up pet bursts. Druid will be even better at that than base ranger.
That is not synergy. Synergy means combining two mechanics to achive a third effect, one that neither of both mechanics could achieve alone. Healing something doesn’t mean that it synergises with the one healed. Healing someone has the purpose of keeping him alive, and that’s what healing does, no third effect gets triggered.
And is that really what we are doing now? Creating a lackluster mechanic, the pets, and keep buildind mechanics around them, like being able to spam-heal it, to make up for its weaknesses? I certainly hope not, I hope that the lackluster mechanic(s) will get an update, so that it can actually combo off and synergise with other mehanics instwad of being reliant on them.