Guild Wars 2

After looking at some of the new engi traits and the awesome synergy they provide, do you think the ranger profession needs a complete overhaul too? Or are we in a good spot?

Are you under the impression that the patch coming Tuesday is only changing engineers? Every class is receiving major changes. There is no overhaul that engineers received that rangers aren’t also getting.

sevenDEADLY.5281:

Are you under the impression that the patch coming Tuesday is only changing engineers? Every class is receiving major changes. There is no overhaul that engineers received that rangers aren’t also getting.

The counterpoint is that ranger and necros were not “viable” at high levels of PvP, to the point they weren’t even represented. Rangers and Necros were effectively (or literally I guess if the necro players are to be believe, I don’t play necro at all) nerfed compared to some of the buffs the other professions got.

Ranger did get buffed, but engis got super buffed. Engis were already 1 or 2 per PvP team while rangers were 0 or 0 per team. It makes no sense…

I guess thieves also got a super buff as well, but I don’t play thief anymore so I’m just going off the PvP forums. Thieves are another class that needed nerfed not buffed.

sevenDEADLY.5281:

Are you under the impression that the patch coming Tuesday is only changing engineers? Every class is receiving major changes. There is no overhaul that engineers received that rangers aren’t also getting.

I don’t disagree that we won’t be getting any changes but to say that they are similar to engineers is silly. Just look at the master line in Marksmanship to the Explosives master line. All I’m saying is that ranger lacks synergy in a lot of traits. When going through the engi traitline I find it had to choose cause they are all so good, ranger however not so much.

we’re in a good spot. huge leaps toward build variety and making pets useful, in pvp, pve and wvw.

spirits we don’t know much about. and half of the shouts are still useless. WH and OH axe need work. SB we’re not sure about yet.

I honestly couldn’t care less about the engie buffs, never had any issues with that prof regardless of their spec.

mistsim.2748:

I honestly couldn’t care less about the engie buffs, never had any issues with that prof regardless of their spec.

You might want to look over their section of the updates. Engies are now support MONSTERS. You will be dealing with engies in PvP more than usual now.

I think necros and rangers should be less humble and start demanding guardian and ele tiered buffs

I could use more red in the forum tough… Every profession has some red post to confirm or infirm information about X or Y skill. While we are here not even knowing what the spirit will look like, how will work HS, etc…

But still, we got the confirmation that heal have now categories which is nice.

There is red in the engi forum. kittening engis get buffed to god status and complain ever so slightly about speedy kits being nerfed and Anet BUFFS it. I mean WTF.

It does seem lopsided, that is for sure, considering we have the same guy in charge of development on both classes.

All in all, we do deserve it! We NEEEEEEEEEEEED it…

I’m getting really tired of people doing this each time there is a patch …

• One patch people call Thief ArenaNet’s darling
• Another patch people call Elementalist ArenaNet’s darling
• Yet another patch people call Warrior ArenaNet’s darling
• Then there’s that patch where people call Guardian ArenaNet’s darling
• And we had that time people actually called Ranger ArenaNet’s darling

It’s pretty dumb.

Some classes need more/less each time around depending on what they solidly know and what they are still looking into.

We still don’t even know how good our Traps’ damage is going to be.
We still don’t know if the Spirit trait will be any good … if one of those spirits gives fury every 3s, that will be amazing in some scenarios with Remorseless.
We still don’t know how the meta is going to change.

If you look at some of the changes to Engineer … they were needed for quite some time.

… now, that all being said … if these recent Trap and Spirit changes aren’t that good … I hope whoever changed Mortar and Med Kit comes and takes a look at Ranger traps and spirits … maybe shouts too ;-) … or our lovely Mesmer/Necro dev … I love what he’s done with Mesmer.

Sebrent.3625:

I’m getting really tired of people doing this each time there is a patch …

I think everyone can agree with you as long as ONE ranger appears in the top 30 or so PvP teams. Otherwise, no it was no ok to buff other classes more than ranger.

We don’t need more than the current 2 engies per team.

You do not want the engineer treatment, no. The only reason that is happening to engineer is because it has been necessitated by engineer being the most vaguely designed, buggy, and arguably incomplete profession since launch.

If you go back in time to the first year of the game, people really hated the implementation of the engineer, and most people joked each patch that they finally decided to delete engineer from the game because it was just too problematic to keep working on. It wasn’t until numerous patches later that it got to the state it’s in now, and they did a large overhaul of the trait system since they finally had a good idea of how they wanted the engineer to work. It took them a long time to make some things for engineers even functional in the first place.

Think of the changes to ranger longbow, but then think about that stuff needing to be done to almost every facet of the profession. I don’t think anyone really wants that, as fun as it can be to have “new stuff”.

Having such an overhaul is not necessarily a good thing, especially if you already have stuff that works well.

Honestly guys- this is all speculation. Can we wait to see how things play out first? At first glance I wasn’t too pleased because it didn’t look like much changed but I’m trying to stay quiet because I think there’s a possibility for a control ranger and I would be thrilled to give it a shot. We really have some cool ideas for builds that we can make coming up that really can be diverse from one another. Now that’s something to be happy about! I’m not trying to start a riot so that’ll be my first and last on this thread until we know more. Be glad we have some tools to work with. Plus if we were over buffed then everyone would be making Rangers and we’d really have a huge (or maybe just even larger) noob population with people who don’t understand the class.

Honestly, of the 3 classes I care about (Ranger, Warrior, Guardian), Ranger has the most to look forward to. I thought I was going to run my condi ranger as WS, NM, and BM trait lines. I love the NM line with a buffed Evasive Purity and that sweet Protective Ward. But wait! Look at the Skirm line … Sharpened Edges-Hidden Barbs-Quick Draw is too good! Gotta take it! And then TU gets categorized as a WS trait! Wahoo! But wait! If I take WHa1 and trait shout, I solve my mobility issue. Too many good choices.
In contrast, the Warrior forums, for ex, are rather upset that they buffed the Monk ShoutBow spec and almost nothing else. Oh yeah, remember when everyone hated Healing Signet? Guess what? Both a traited TU and WHa1 out-heals it!! We have a lot to be thankful for.

No, I do not think Ranger needs an overhaul. Some more QoL and a few trait adjustments here and there would be nice, but Rangers are in a good spot. Maybe not the best spot in every mode, but the class holds its own.

I think if any class deserves the “God Mode Overhaul” treatment now is Necros. For all of the complaints, we look like golden gooses compared to what treatment they got.

I’m actually thinking that Spirits are going to be pretty interesting. If traited they could pretty likely provide 33% uptime of Stability, Fury, Resistance, Aegis, Protection…

They haven’t said a word about which boons are we going to get but I believe it’s going to be similar to this.

And don’t forget that while our Condi builds got buffed… It got buffed by another 33% (Quick Draw). That trait is a powerful one.
We might be buffed beyond imagining, but there’s just no way to test it yet. Every single buff/nerf/tweak/change is only on paper so far.
And we haven’t even thought of every combination or synergy with sigils, traits or what not.

There’s still way more to explore.

I think it is still too early to tell. I suspect we may be a bit over-buffed. It seems that beastmastery will now be possible with current meta builds that were already pretty strong—without it. That, added with the option of taunt on any pet will make it so we can go without the wolf and have double the condition effect to stop resurrection and stomping. Taunt will be very strong if enemy can’t clear it, they will be running into hilt bash, maul, splitblade…. You name it. Let’s wait and see.

Fluffball.8307:

There is red in the engi forum. kittening engis get buffed to god status and complain ever so slightly about speedy kits being nerfed and Anet BUFFS it. I mean WTF.

It was a bug fix, not a buff.

Majic.4801:

Fluffball.8307:

There is red in the engi forum. kittening engis get buffed to god status and complain ever so slightly about speedy kits being nerfed and Anet BUFFS it. I mean WTF.

It was a bug fix, not a buff.

Keep believing that and the attack speed reduction on shortbow (from early In the game’s history) was just an ‘animation’ fix. At this point just saying ‘that wasn’t intended’ now counts as a fix hmmm….

Yamsandjams.3267:

You do not want the engineer treatment, no. The only reason that is happening to engineer is because it has been necessitated by engineer being the most vaguely designed, buggy, and arguably incomplete profession since launch.

If you go back in time to the first year of the game, people really hated the implementation of the engineer, and most people joked each patch that they finally decided to delete engineer from the game because it was just too problematic to keep working on. It wasn’t until numerous patches later that it got to the state it’s in now, and they did a large overhaul of the trait system since they finally had a good idea of how they wanted the engineer to work. It took them a long time to make some things for engineers even functional in the first place.

Think of the changes to ranger longbow, but then think about that stuff needing to be done to almost every facet of the profession. I don’t think anyone really wants that, as fun as it can be to have “new stuff”.

Having such an overhaul is not necessarily a good thing, especially if you already have stuff that works well.

I laughed… Pet are a class mechanic and are the most buggy out there… But they wont do a overhaul because its to hard to correct.

Bran.7425:

Keep believing that and the attack speed reduction on shortbow (from early In the game’s history) was just an ’animation’ fix. At this point just saying ’that wasn’t intended’ now counts as a fix hmmm....

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/spectral-walk-was-working-as-intended/first

Goldenrevolver.4371:

Bran.7425:

Keep believing that and the attack speed reduction on shortbow (from early In the game’s history) was just an ‘animation’ fix. At this point just saying ‘that wasn’t intended’ now counts as a fix hmmm….

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/spectral-walk-was-working-as-intended/first

Poor spectral walk… Poor necro…

Mmm.

Maybe we should see what Druid is bringing to the table before pulling the synergy card.

I think Rangers are hugely OP and that the class is mainly used for trolling in PVP. I’d like to see it receive major nerfs. The Longbow and pet are especially offensive.

L2P, as a Mesmer you have tons of reflect. Rangers kill themselves.

Let’s see, with any height difference, rangers shoot right over my temporal curtain. Feedback won’t reach them most of the time, the reflect phantasm has the same range issue.. that leaves mirror. So I’m supposed to be able to win on a 1 second reflect? You learn to play and stop relying on an OP burst and a pet that makes closing you almost impossible.

I’m gonna say something that you’re not gonna like:

Curtain operates differently from most reflect walls in that it only blocks up to the height of its visual which is fairly low to the ground, as the trait only indicates the skills themselves reflect projectiles.

This has nothing to do with the ranger but is a problem with the mesmer. A rifle warrior has the same potential to kill you.

You need to utilize distortion and evade frames like Blurred Frenzy, and use blink to teleport behind them to cancel their attacks as arrows cannot be shot beyond 180 degrees and will not hone. Also recall you have a boon steal on GS and 1200 range interrupts with no cast time on mantras. You can steal stability from Rampage as One or Signet of the Wild and during the theft while they’re beginning their RF snag an interrupt on them and force a cooldown.

The sad reality is that you’re likely taking almost as much damage from fire/air sigils as you are from RF itself if you’re dodging correctly. Those are what is more OP than anything within the class.

LB ranger is weird in that it’s kind of difficult to learn to counter, but once you do, it’s extremely easy to deal with them unless they’re particularly good players, in which case they probably deserve the win for… playing well. I find most of my encounters against LB rangers very binary, either the fight is over in under five seconds and they’re dead on the ground, or it’s an all-out frenzy with both of us trying our absolute hardest not to die and out-play each other in positioning and conservation of resources.

Just coming in here screaming “OP,” though, is a really bad place to start to getting good advice.

Bran.7425:

Majic.4801:

Fluffball.8307:

There is red in the engi forum. kittening engis get buffed to god status and complain ever so slightly about speedy kits being nerfed and Anet BUFFS it. I mean WTF.

It was a bug fix, not a buff.

Keep believing that and the attack speed reduction on shortbow (from early In the game’s history) was just an ‘animation’ fix. At this point just saying ‘that wasn’t intended’ now counts as a fix hmmm….

If you’re going to accuse an ArenaNet developer of lying in the face of evidence to the contrary, offering something more than dodgy innuendo and vague allegations would help establish some credibility.

i think we have been getting the engie treatment. we got a ton of overhauls and huge improvements to the BM tree, and therefore the pets. ranger is gonna be beastly, i know i wont be playing anything else.

Majic.4801:

If you’re going to accuse an ArenaNet developer of lying in the face of evidence to the contrary, offering something more than dodgy innuendo and vague allegations would help establish some credibility.

Odd you go straight to accusing me of calling anyone a liar. Statements of intension have to be take (especial after the fact) with a bit of good faith however oven the course of the games history that relationship is more than a little strained between the developers and the (forum based) ranger community. So call it what you like fix, buff, or ‘stop your tears’ bribe, I really don’t care but don’t again make blatent assumption on what I’ve type it is more than a little hypocritical.

To put it plainly the change/clarification done to the permanent swiftness can easily be seen as engineer whined and they caved (but needed to make themselves not look weak). Whether or not it is the truth is of no consequence, the perception of that possibility does enough damage.

Bran.7425:

Odd you go straight to accusing me of calling anyone a liar.

This is what you said:

Majic.4801:

Majic.4801:

It was a bug fix, not a buff.

Keep believing that and the attack speed reduction on shortbow (from early In the game’s history) was just an ‘animation’ fix. At this point just saying ‘that wasn’t intended’ now counts as a fix hmmm….

If this is not supposed to suggest dishonesty on the part of the developers, it would be reasonable not to write it that way.

Writing that, then quibbling about it when it’s pointed out, doesn’t make a stronger case. Trying to put me on the defensive about your own dubious comments is a tactic that isn’t going to work either, given how transparent and disingenuous those sorts of shenanigans are.

For the record, I’m really not trying to make a big deal out of it, but seriously, if other people questioning what you write bothers you so much, then don’t write questionable stuff and get all huffy about it when people actually question it.

Take what I’ve presented however you want, what you think about my opinion/ perceptions matters not a bit to me. What matters is the general message Anet has sent and perception of what it could mean. It is basic PR, but why am I bother to explain this to you, a player of the profession that benefited from the change/fix/buff/whatever you want to call it.

The only question I have is really why you feel the need to come to this subforum which will have no effect on engineer?

The Best Policy

Bran.7425:

Take what I’ve presented however you want, what you think about my opinion/ perceptions matters not a bit to me. What matters is the general message Anet has sent and perception of what it could mean. It is basic PR, but why am I bother to explain this to you, a player of the profession that benefited from the change/fix/buff/whatever you want to call it.

The only question I have is really why you feel the need to come to this subforum which will have no effect on engineer?

I play all the professions, and have four of each, in fact, which is why I take interest in all the related forums and find notions of sibling rivalry between professions amusing. Predictably, the grass is always greener in the other professions’ yards, and every profession is a victim of malicious or indifferent developers because ArenaNet hates us and wants us to cry.

What I find less amusing is players bashing the developers for being responsive to player feedback, which is why I said what I said. Your implication that I am some sort of rube for taking Irenio Calmon-Huang at his word also doesn’t sit well with me, for reasons I hope you can fathom.

Lest I be mistaken for some sort of “white knight” trying to stand up for the devs, feel free to peruse my post history. Highlights include my strong condemnation of making Season One of the Living World “throwaway content” and last year’s spectacular trait system debacle. I’m not shy about criticizing ArenaNet when I think they’re doing something wrong, fully respect your right to do the same and encourage you to do just that.

My point is when you attempt to impugn someone’s character — whether Irenio’s or mine — from a position of dishonesty, you act only to discredit your own character, and nothing good comes from it.

It doesn’t have to be that way. Just be honest, don’t talk trash about people you don’t know, and when called on it, don’t act like you don’t know what the problem is.

It’s not hard. Honest.

I have not trashed talked anyone you are choosing to view it that way and that is all. If that is fine then it is not much of a step to view actions and changes in that like as it is better to have a ‘intend all along’ than being viewed as caving in. You think I am calling someone a liar when I have in fact not done so only pointed out that the timing and presentation of the announcement could be taken poorly or viewed differently by each person. So could this needless back a forth stop here and be taken elsewhere as it has long since abandon the topic of this thread.

I agree there’s no need to continue a pointless back-and-forth, and I’m glad you’re not claiming Irenio was lying, so no disagreement there.

I don’t think it was unreasonable to take what you posted at face value, however, and barring some compelling reason not to, I’ll leave it at that.

Back on topic the fact that someone in the developmental stage allowed for the pets ( which I recalled were not even full functional during the first beta weekend) to be completely chained to the general behavioral mechanic of the PvE side of the game was completely short sighted and if the ‘tech’ wasn’t ready they should have reconsidered shipping ranger out at launch. That one call has set up a chain of whack-a-mole balancing and bandaid fixes combining with a focus on developing for a community that is quick to call foul on anything scripted (for lack of a better term as I think AI build is not accurate use of language) being used in PvP. Look at the uproar the ‘petting zoo’ comment caused even though spirits were closer to banners in design than other ‘summons’.

So if Anet wants ranger to be a ‘pet class’ there needs to be an overhaul of there pet systems and mechanics that is just as much if not more effort intensive as the rebuilding of engineers traits.

Pet Peeves

I can definitely agree that it’s well past time for pets to get the overhaul they so desperately need, and it’s not like Rangers haven’t been clamoring for fixes and improvements for years, either.

There is a caveat, though, if we’re considering asking for the “Engi Treatment”, because the Engineers’ “pets” — turrets — look like they’re going to take a major survivability hit on Tuesday due to the removal of a rather critical trait. Turrets already suffer from oversized hit boxes, vulnerability to condition damage and zero regeneration without a trait. That’s the trait they’re removing.

But that’s not the only place there’s trouble. Necromancer minions are still bugged all to hell. After fixing pathing to a surprising degree about two years ago, the bugs in their pathing have since regressed again. So it’s still quite common to go charging into a fight while your Shadow Fiend and Flesh Golem stand there watching instead of fighting while your enemies focus-fire your ranged minions to death. There’s no indication that’s going to change anytime soon.

And Mesmer illusions… well, at least you can usually crank those out and shatter them fast enough that some of their more bizarre idiosyncracies aren’t game-breakers.

Unfortunately, Rangers don’t have that luxury and are joined at the hip with their pets whether they like it or not.

Overall, I think Ranger pets are the best-behaved and least-problematic of all the pets, but that doesn’t mean they are free of problems, and the fact that they’re always out during combat whether you stow them or not, want them or not, whether passive or not, means whatever problems they have are always a problem.

I mentioned the other professions’ pet problems to point out that things are tough all over, to demonstrate that pets aren’t a Ranger-only problem, and suggest that, frankly, relief is probably not coming soon.

But if enough of us keep asking, maybe the message will eventually get through.

If you’re wanting fixes to pets

• +150 Power/Precision/Vitality/Toughness baseline

Helps survivability and adds more “bite” to them.

Then we have Beastmastery which may fix some more given:

• Additional +150 Power/Precision/Toughness/Vitality (total +300)
• Move 30% faster … harder to avoid by “just moving”
• 20% improved recharge on all skills, auto-cast and F2

What is left?

• Maybe tweaking some of the numbers
• Improving the AI

AI improvements, if going to happen, are likely to come with HoT.

Many of us have already been doing quite well with pre-June-23rd pets.
Many of us will do even better with post-June-23rd pets.

If we get much better AI … prepare for your pet to get obese on the tears of your foes.

Have patience.

Problem here is not the class itself that we already stated it’s nerfed to oblivion. Even Necro got better treatment with the trait than the ranger.
The problem here is that there are too many casual rangers while they main another class. They use ranger from time to time to play something where you actually have to play but for competitive gameplay they use their main, engineer warrior or elementalist.

So that kind of posters will never push for a fair treatment for this profession because they are not interested. You can see that simply by the statements, when they begin to say thing like “spirits are good” or “pets are going to be very good” obviously they don’t play with this profession enough to see all the broken and bugged things this profession has.
About the guy that is in charge of both classes it’s clear that he does not play with ranger ever. For how he talked about synergy was clear to me that he dedicated all his time for the engie.

At this point is just disappointment what i’m feeling.

Please quantify that how Necro got better treatment than Ranger? I only see an opinion with nothing to support it.

Some people are still saying they “could” be if in some situations depending on the GM trait … many of us are saying “wow, they actually look worse now”.

Thinking that people that play multiple classes won’t push for fair treatment of classes is so asinine I don’t know where to begin. Playing multiple classes doesn’t mean you don’t want balance. It also doesn’t make sense that people wouldn’t want a class they play to be “good”. People care about the classes they play.

Have to say I’m sad that apparently we all have to continue suffering through posts that are “people that don’t agree with me obviously don’t main Ranger … that includes the devs” … there was a glorious lack of that the past few days. There was also a glorious lack of baseless posts … oh well … hopefully the new rangers have figured it out by now so the rest of us don’t have to deal with it as much.

I’m wondering if the AI improvements will be applied to our Pets/Minions. If anyone watched the “Building a Better Centaur AI at Massive Scale” presentation at GDC, I’m hoping that some of those behaviors apply, such as attacking so the damage is more evenly spread out amongst targets (Drake cleaves and other AOEs).

Even shifting positions away from allies when engaging an enemy to reduce splash damage or recognizing high density damage zones and moving out of them. Also, one point Sebrent mentioned that I hope Anet touches on is taking a look at pets and tweaking their numbers.

It would be a great QoL improvement and boost to have diversifying stats among each pet and species. Examples would be the Fern Hound to be the only canine with a base Healing Power stat and Spiders with a base Condition Damage stat. Something that further emphasizes their utility and strengths and can be further augmented by traits that boost a certain stat.

Fluffball.8307:

Ranger did get buffed, but engis got super buffed. Engis were already 1 or 2 per PvP team while rangers were 0 or 0 per team. It makes no sense…

The buffs on engy get overstated, both from the perspective of the actual buffs, but also from the actual position of engy.

Now don’t get me wrong cele rifle build is OP, but that is just one bit of engy, in many areas it needs help, like every class that needed buffs/changes in weak areas, look at the zerker options for example, zerker engy (static discharge) is literally the weakest zerker build in the game, that aspect needs help/buffs. Same thing for kits, most rarely got used because people worked out not to stand in bombs, FT is simply bad, and elxir gun is only good in 1v1 and offers less survivability than elixir S/slick shoes in any other situation.

Also two things on cele rifle, firstly cele is getting nerfed (10% I think was the number given), secondly the metas in the last year have hugely favoured engy, most of the other builds have either had good self condi clear like medi guard, or also had AOE condi clear like d/d ele & shoutbow, so the things that gives engy the biggest problem condi necros, condi rangers, etc have been absent.

They have also had nerfs, but people seem to ignore these, for example the speedy kits thing that got changed to 20 secs by a dev the other day, this “buff” just means engy gets the same uptime on swiftness from that it has now, but that when it gets boon stripped it now will be longer before it can be reapplied, it also in turn nerfs invigorating speed, the idea that this is a buff, is ludicrous.

Similarly people who I assume don’t play engy enough, don’t seem to notice things that have been core to the survivability of many engy builds for three years, got nerfed by their positioning in trait lines, for example if you were up against a burst heavy composition it was not unusual to select both invigorating speed and protection injection, they have been moved to the same trait tier.

Also look at the game as a whole, in PvE engy is a decent option, but that is all, it has never been wanted like ele, guard, warrior, thief, etc, in WvW it is the worst class, in that is has been basically unwanted for zergs/raids for the entire game, even the much maligned ranger has been in a better place since the longbow/signet buffs.

Sebrent.3625:

Please quantify that how Necro got better treatment than Ranger? I only see an opinion with nothing to support it.

For plenty of opinions that don’t support it, check out the Necromancer forum.

Makes the Ranger forum look positively ecstatic by comparison.

Majic.4801:

Makes the Ranger forum look positively ecstatic by comparison.

It might be that the general ranger community is used to setting their standards lower.

Bran.7425:

Majic.4801:

Makes the Ranger forum look positively ecstatic by comparison.

It might be that the general ranger community is used to setting their standards lower.

Perhaps, but at least Rangers aren’t going to get ten stacks of vulnerability laid on them every time they use what used to be a really awesome healing skill.

Ranger and necro, the b@stard childs of Anet.

@Bran:
Many of us don’t set our standards low.

Many of us like people to actually provide support for what they say … otherwise recognize that it’s an unsupported opinion and holds as much weight as a fart in the wind.

Many of us would rather look at what we can do rather than sit around griping about what we can’t … we get more kills this way and groups actually take us for content when we do this instead of griping.

Heck … look at the Warrior subforum … big bunch of whiners there too … despite being a strong class in every meta. This is why I give little credit to whining unless the person actually provides facts and logical reasoning to support what they say.

Sebrent.3625:

@Bran:
Many of us don’t set our standards low.

Many of us like people to actually provide support for what they say … otherwise recognize that it’s an unsupported opinion and holds as much weight as a fart in the wind.

Many of us would rather look at what we can do rather than sit around griping about what we can’t … we get more kills this way and groups actually take us for content when we do this instead of griping.

Heck … look at the Warrior subforum … big bunch of whiners there too … despite being a strong class in every meta. This is why I give little credit to whining unless the person actually provides facts and logical reasoning to support what they say.

The fact for arenanet → whiners = potential gem buyers = $$$ to shareholder/stockholder and investor. And thats what drive Anet sadly.