Guild Wars 2

Hi there.

I’m leveling a new character, a ranger, ofc. It’s kinda obvious that we dont have many Aoe skills, but I’ve seen I can hit lots of enemies just with Piercing Arrows.

Just imagine fighting a zerg in WvW (that’s the main use I’m gonna give it)… all you have to do is use Barrage and then just keep pewpewing them with every single attack you have… then just add some traps and there you go.

I’m not saying our AoE is “wow 1337 awzum”, but still.. I dont think our AoE is that bad.

What do you guys think?

I’m right there with you. Traps, peircing arrows, condition damage build and watch ther bags pile up.

It’s not that bad at all. Playing a Thief is much worse, since all you have is the shortbow. The Ranger has the choice of traps, axes, bows with pierce, and even the greatsword. Drakes are also a great source of AoE damage.

The problem with piercing arrow is if you want to hit a lot of targets, you have to target the players in the back and not the one you may necessarily want to actually kill. This is because the arrow trajectory adjusts based on the target you’re hitting. It’s also of limited value on a wall because you’re unlikely to hit many targets.

So yea, when it comes to AE, this class is probably the worst at it.

Chopps.5047:

I’m right there with you. Traps, peircing arrows, condition damage build and watch ther bags pile up.

yes but don’t forget the trait which allows us to trow traps ton of fun in wvw

Kasama.8941:

It’s not that bad at all. Playing a Thief is much worse, since all you have is the shortbow. The Ranger has the choice of traps, axes, bows with pierce, and even the greatsword. Drakes are also a great source of AoE damage.

Thief sword is just as painful to a mob as the ranger greatsword. In fact, it’s even more painful because it does full damage instead of a percentage of total damage while the other portion is reserved for the pet. Against PvE targets, a properly traited thief can keep a group of enemies blinded indefinitely while the sword auto-attack kills three at once. In WvW, I’ve been having good luck with dagger/dagger+sword/pistol in soloing camps or running right in the middle of the zerg with glass gear. Daggers may be mostly single-target, but the dual skill Death Blossom hits many targets and evades. If that isn’t good enough for you, use Dagger Storm with Signet of Malice and take your hands off the keyboard while you auto-run straight into a zerg. This leaves your hands free to roll around the floor laughing at your damage and healing output.

Shortbow cluster bomb isn’t nearly as good since the range nerf in WvW, but it still wrecks mid-range groups with damage that is more consistent than ranger’s barrage which has a much, much longer cooldown for not that much more damage.

All this said, I’m not sure either of the two classes is particularly lacking in AOE ability. Used properly, the potential for piercing arrows is amazing—that said, many projectiles for other classes inherently pierce. Having an entire trait dedicated just to piercing seems a bit steep even if the trait is a must-have for a bow ranger, and piercing arrows as AOE also requires specific positioning forcing the class into a specific play-style to AOE effectively.

Orion.3812:

Kasama.8941:

It’s not that bad at all. Playing a Thief is much worse, since all you have is the shortbow. The Ranger has the choice of traps, axes, bows with pierce, and even the greatsword. Drakes are also a great source of AoE damage.

Thief sword is just as painful to a mob as the ranger greatsword. In fact, it’s even more painful because it does full damage instead of a percentage of total damage while the other portion is reserved for the pet. Against PvE targets, a properly traited thief can keep a group of enemies blinded indefinitely while the sword auto-attack kills three at once. In WvW, I’ve been having good luck with dagger/dagger+sword/pistol in soloing camps or running right in the middle of the zerg with glass gear. Daggers may be mostly single-target, but the dual skill Death Blossom hits many targets and evades. If that isn’t good enough for you, use Dagger Storm with Signet of Malice and take your hands off the keyboard while you auto-run straight into a zerg. This leaves your hands free to roll around the floor laughing at your damage and healing output.

Shortbow cluster bomb isn’t nearly as good since the range nerf in WvW, but it still wrecks mid-range groups with damage that is more consistent than ranger’s barrage which has a much, much longer cooldown for not that much more damage.

All this said, I’m not sure either of the two classes is particularly lacking in AOE ability. Used properly, the potential for piercing arrows is amazing—that said, many projectiles for other classes inherently pierce. Having an entire trait dedicated just to piercing seems a bit steep even if the trait is a must-have for a bow ranger, and piercing arrows as AOE also requires specific positioning forcing the class into a specific play-style to AOE effectively.

The Thief is lacking in AoE damage options, even compared to the Ranger. It’s not even very close.

Thief:
Trick Shot, Cluster Bomb, Choking Gas, Slice (sword auto-attack), Flanking Strike, Pistol Whip, Death Blossom, Dancing Dagger, Caltrops, Dagger Storm – Steal: Exploding Venom Sack, Throw Gunk, Whirling Axe

Ranger:
Slash (greatsword auto-attack), Maul, Swoop, Counterattack, Barrage, all arrow attacks with pierce, Slash (sword auto-attack), Ricochet, Splitblade, Path of Scars, Whirling Defense, Bonfire, Call Lightning, Flame Trap, Spike Trap, Viper’s Nest, Entangle – Pets: Poison Cloud, Poisonous Cloud, Frost Breath, Insect Swarm, Sonic Shriek, Lightning Breath, Fire Breath, Poison Gas

Kasama.8941:

The Thief is lacking in AoE damage options, even compared to the Ranger. It’s not even very close.

Thief:
Trick Shot, Cluster Bomb, Choking Gas, Slice (sword auto-attack), Flanking Strike, Pistol Whip, Death Blossom, Dancing Dagger, Caltrops, Dagger Storm – Steal: Exploding Venom Sack, Throw Gunk, Whirling Axe

Ranger:
Slash (greatsword auto-attack), Maul, Swoop, Counterattack, Barrage, all arrow attacks with pierce, Slash (sword auto-attack), Ricochet, Splitblade, Path of Scars, Whirling Defense, Bonfire, Call Lightning, Flame Trap, Spike Trap, Viper’s Nest, Entangle – Pets: Poison Cloud, Poisonous Cloud, Frost Breath, Insect Swarm, Sonic Shriek, Lightning Breath, Fire Breath, Poison Gas

Counterattack is not AOE, but I wish it was. You’re entirely missing the point though—it’s not about how many millions okittends of ineffective or unreliable AOE options a class has, but whether or not there are a small few effective, reliable, and low-cooldown AOE options. Ranger has no skills that have a short cooldown that hit more than three targets except for piercing arrows. Thief has shortbow.

Compare either class to elementalist, which can kill five people at once in one or two seconds with a certain dagger/dagger build, and has sustainable short-cooldown AOE on every weapon.

Kasama.8941:

Orion.3812:

Kasama.8941:

It’s not that bad at all. Playing a Thief is much worse, since all you have is the shortbow. The Ranger has the choice of traps, axes, bows with pierce, and even the greatsword. Drakes are also a great source of AoE damage.

Thief sword is just as painful to a mob as the ranger greatsword. In fact, it’s even more painful because it does full damage instead of a percentage of total damage while the other portion is reserved for the pet. Against PvE targets, a properly traited thief can keep a group of enemies blinded indefinitely while the sword auto-attack kills three at once. In WvW, I’ve been having good luck with dagger/dagger+sword/pistol in soloing camps or running right in the middle of the zerg with glass gear. Daggers may be mostly single-target, but the dual skill Death Blossom hits many targets and evades. If that isn’t good enough for you, use Dagger Storm with Signet of Malice and take your hands off the keyboard while you auto-run straight into a zerg. This leaves your hands free to roll around the floor laughing at your damage and healing output.

Shortbow cluster bomb isn’t nearly as good since the range nerf in WvW, but it still wrecks mid-range groups with damage that is more consistent than ranger’s barrage which has a much, much longer cooldown for not that much more damage.

All this said, I’m not sure either of the two classes is particularly lacking in AOE ability. Used properly, the potential for piercing arrows is amazing—that said, many projectiles for other classes inherently pierce. Having an entire trait dedicated just to piercing seems a bit steep even if the trait is a must-have for a bow ranger, and piercing arrows as AOE also requires specific positioning forcing the class into a specific play-style to AOE effectively.

The Thief is lacking in AoE damage options, even compared to the Ranger. It’s not even very close.

Thief:
Trick Shot, Cluster Bomb, Choking Gas, Slice (sword auto-attack), Flanking Strike, Pistol Whip, Death Blossom, Dancing Dagger, Caltrops, Dagger Storm – Steal: Exploding Venom Sack, Throw Gunk, Whirling Axe

Ranger:
Slash (greatsword auto-attack), Maul, Swoop, Counterattack, Barrage, all arrow attacks with pierce, Slash (sword auto-attack), Ricochet, Splitblade, Path of Scars, Whirling Defense, Bonfire, Call Lightning, Flame Trap, Spike Trap, Viper’s Nest, Entangle – Pets: Poison Cloud, Poisonous Cloud, Frost Breath, Insect Swarm, Sonic Shriek, Lightning Breath, Fire Breath, Poison Gas

…

Simply listing off every attack that hits multiple targets isn’t going to prove a class has strong or weak AE. Thief AE is infinitely more powerful than Ranger AE despite the Ranger clearly having access to ‘more’. If Thief AE was on a cooldown instead of initiative based you’d have a point… but it is, and you don’t. And we’re still trying to fight over last place here for some reason…

Aren’t most rangers in MMOs limited in AOE damage? In return, I find that they have very high direct range damage or greater range. Our problem is inherently our range is no better than anyone else’s (sure you can trait for a bit of it but it is not inherent) and we certainly don’t have the best range direct damage.

I still wonder why we had to reduce the range of the Short bow VERSUS increasing the range of the longbow. It certainly would be something if the LB started at 1500 (longer than anyone else) and could be traited for a bit higher. Not game breaking against real players. Might be in dungeons or PvE (I tend not to focus there so let me know).

Our AoE is interesting, but has a lot of requirements to actually work. Piercing arrows is very fun to use… But it corners you into traiting for it ánd using bows.
Traps are fun but in order to use them to their fullest potential you have to trait for them and use condition damage gear.
Pet AoE damage is similar; you have to use a drake and preferably the one with lightning breath because that attack may actually have a chance to hit.
Greatsword is okay because the cleave range is incredible, but the greatsword is not a very good damaging weapon to begin with. And the sword has a very small cleave range that only works with the auto attack and the leap back on skill #2.

Then there is our AoE weapon that is absolutely amazing and almost gamebreaking: the Harpoon Gun. I hope you do like to swim if you want to shine at AoE damage!

I hadn’t thought of this until just now, but what if Piercing Arrows wasn’t tied to a trait at all? What if a couple attacks on each bow pierced? Like Rapid shot and Point Blank Shot for longbow each are piercing attacks, and autoattack has a chance to pierce? That wouldn’t be OP, I don’t think...

While I wouldn’t cry if barrage had a lower cooldown or something… really if piercing arrows was just less finicky.

If you don’t have just the exact perfect angle and line, you aren’t piercing jack. Maybe just make that piercing ‘line’ just a bit wider and make the angles just a bit more forgiving.

I don’t think the AoE is “bad,” per say, but I don’t find it to be optimal. Mainly because our farthest range AoE is direct damage that is heavily punished by retaliation and we have no options outside of boon removal procs on weapons to deal with it.

Other classes direct damage options offer similar obstacles, but I will say that lately I’ve been jealous of warriors Arcing Arrow, more idealistically than anything. That is; being able to deal more damage with less arrows.

However, I would also be a fan of taking two old concepts:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ignite_Arrows
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Splinter_Shot

Dispersing the effects of Moment of Clarity across a few different existing trait locations (Attack of Opportunity on pet swap with 20 second ICD instead of Instinctual Bond, and +50% daze/stun being attached to a currently existing trait in Skirmishing), and then in the Grandmaster slot, creating Splinter Arrows. On crit, arrows have x% chance to splinter and hit adjacent/nearby foes.

That would be a more preferable option for me at this point than to change skills around. However, I wouldn’t be opposed to some simple boon removal either haha. Just don’t like that Barrage can potentially 100-0 me if a small group decides to throw on retal and stand in it.

I am truly curious though:

Bombsaway.7198:

Aren’t most rangers in MMOs limited in AOE damage? In return, I find that they have very high direct range damage or greater range. Our problem is inherently our range is no better than anyone else’s (sure you can trait for a bit of it but it is not inherent) and we certainly don’t have the best range direct damage.

I still wonder why we had to reduce the range of the Short bow VERSUS increasing the range of the longbow. It certainly would be something if the LB started at 1500 (longer than anyone else) and could be traited for a bit higher. Not game breaking against real players. Might be in dungeons or PvE (I tend not to focus there so let me know).

Who has better ranged direct damage? I thought that at 1200 range, rangers had one of the fastest times to kill in the game, and obviously the fastest time to kill at 1500 range.

I don’t think our aoes are bad, we are just lacking pure weapon build-in aoes(actually not lacking but they are spread around all weapon set, not like ele or necro staff which are aoe focused weapon even guardian staff can be considered). On the other hand when you have to put other skills as stun breaker to side with 2 traps just make me sad, but it also feels so weird if they actually give traps stun breaker, cuz they are traps..semi passive skills and cant be instant casted…

Maybe that will be one of our new utilities whenever those get released, some kind of stun break trap.

Orion.3812:

Counterattack is not AOE, but I wish it was. You’re entirely missing the point though—it’s not about how many millions okittends of ineffective or unreliable AOE options a class has, but whether or not there are a small few effective, reliable, and low-cooldown AOE options. Ranger has no skills that have a short cooldown that hit more than three targets except for piercing arrows. Thief has shortbow.

Compare either class to elementalist, which can kill five people at once in one or two seconds with a certain dagger/dagger build, and has sustainable short-cooldown AOE on every weapon.

Counterattack does hit multiple players, but it can only be triggered by one player. But when fighting mobs, it’s easy to make them all stand in the same spot.

I’ve downed multiple players with Muddy Terrain>Entangle>Lightning Breath>Barrage, in a few seconds. I’ve never downed multiple players using Choking Gas and Cluster Bomb. The Thief’s AoE skills are great for tagging players, but you aren’t going to down more then one player on your own, with them.

Atherakhia.4086:

Simply listing off every attack that hits multiple targets isn’t going to prove a class has strong or weak AE. Thief AE is infinitely more powerful than Ranger AE despite the Ranger clearly having access to ‘more’. If Thief AE was on a cooldown instead of initiative based you’d have a point… but it is, and you don’t. And we’re still trying to fight over last place here for some reason…

Having more options is always better. The fact that the Thief can spam his AoE skills doesn’t make them better. It’s only worth using Choking Gas once, as it’s a combo field, and then you’ll be able to use around five Cluster Bombs, at a very slow interval if you’re at range. While you’ll be able to deal some good damage doing this, you won’t be able to down multiple players. And that’s what all the Thief’s AoE skills have in common.

Kasama.8941:

Orion.3812:

Counterattack is not AOE, but I wish it was. You’re entirely missing the point though—it’s not about how many millions okittends of ineffective or unreliable AOE options a class has, but whether or not there are a small few effective, reliable, and low-cooldown AOE options. Ranger has no skills that have a short cooldown that hit more than three targets except for piercing arrows. Thief has shortbow.

Compare either class to elementalist, which can kill five people at once in one or two seconds with a certain dagger/dagger build, and has sustainable short-cooldown AOE on every weapon.

Counterattack does hit multiple players, but it can only be triggered by one player. But when fighting mobs, it’s easy to make them all stand in the same spot.

I’ve downed multiple players with Muddy Terrain>Entangle>Lightning Breath>Barrage, in a few seconds. I’ve never downed multiple players using Choking Gas and Cluster Bomb. The Thief’s AoE skills are great for tagging players, but you aren’t going to down more then one player on your own, with them.

Atherakhia.4086:

Simply listing off every attack that hits multiple targets isn’t going to prove a class has strong or weak AE. Thief AE is infinitely more powerful than Ranger AE despite the Ranger clearly having access to ‘more’. If Thief AE was on a cooldown instead of initiative based you’d have a point… but it is, and you don’t. And we’re still trying to fight over last place here for some reason…

Having more options is always better. The fact that the Thief can spam his AoE skills doesn’t make them better. It’s only worth using Choking Gas once, as it’s a combo field, and then you’ll be able to use around five Cluster Bombs, at a very slow interval if you’re at range. While you’ll be able to deal some good damage doing this, you won’t be able to down multiple players. And that’s what all the Thief’s AoE skills have in common.

But you don’t need to use cluster bomb at range. You can use it in melee… and it deals a very high amount of damage. Blast for poison fields is also weakness which is insanely good right now. And again… we’re fighting over last place here. If you want the Thief to be last place in the AE department and Rangers to be 7th, so be it. I don’t agree but that’s fine…

Now as for barrage mentioned above by a previous poster and how retaliation affects it… what if they just changed retaliation to only trigger off the first tick? It doesn’t seem very fair for a heavy hitting spell to reflect back 325 because it’s single target, but for barrage to reflect back 325 each tick when it still deals less than the other’s AE for example. Could also make retaliation have an internal cooldown so you can only be hit by it once every few seconds.

May end up nerfing the Guardian and Warrior builds, but both are top tier classes as it is so they could do with a little toning down maybe.

Atherakhia.4086:

But you don’t need to use cluster bomb at range. You can use it in melee… and it deals a very high amount of damage. Blast for poison fields is also weakness which is insanely good right now. And again… we’re fighting over last place here. If you want the Thief to be last place in the AE department and Rangers to be 7th, so be it. I don’t agree but that’s fine…

Yes, you can use Cluster Bomb at melee range, that’s also how I’m using it. But the chance of you downing multiple players with it, is still small.

Actually, I would put the Ranger at sixth place, with the Mesmer being at seventh and the Thief at eighth. So to answer the topic; no, we do not suck so hard at AoE.

Kasama.8941:

Atherakhia.4086:

But you don’t need to use cluster bomb at range. You can use it in melee… and it deals a very high amount of damage. Blast for poison fields is also weakness which is insanely good right now. And again… we’re fighting over last place here. If you want the Thief to be last place in the AE department and Rangers to be 7th, so be it. I don’t agree but that’s fine…

Yes, you can use Cluster Bomb at melee range, that’s also how I’m using it. But the chance of you downing multiple players with it, is still small.

Actually, I would put the Ranger at sixth place, with the Mesmer being at seventh and the Thief at eighth. So to answer the topic; no, we do not suck so hard at AoE.

…

I’m just going to assume you’re not good with combi fields at this point. Mesmer is last place at anything in this game? Come on…

Rank them anyway you want… the OP will be back in a month claiming we all lied to him because Ranger AE sucks.

i have 2 guildie thief whos play in the zerg. they spread aoe poison, blind and there is that evaiding aoe dagger skill with bleeding.
btw piercing arrow is not bad but u always need to select somebody in the backline AND that trait is in power line where are all of our good traits. i played traps in wvw. you need to sacrafice nearly every surviving ability (traps use precious utility slots). i suggest u a good old 30 points on power, signets affect you, min 20 points on toughnes, knight armor, GS, troll and surf in the middle of the zerg.

1 handed sowrd in the zerg:
after stacking might (do not target anyone)
use autoatack to get on to the end of the zerg (when the warriors are still somewhere at the beginnig
use the “instant turn around button” and jump with autoatack back to Your comrades
repeat
in case of massive aoe from their side make use of dodge on serpents strike and hornet sting….
interesting part of it is that if You will make this well You will hit everybody in the enemy zerg

i dont know where are u play but 1h sword is a suicide. lose your comrads in a real fight is instant death. i tried everything. select target, not select, auto attack or not. same.

Orion.3812:

Kasama.8941:

The Thief is lacking in AoE damage options, even compared to the Ranger. It’s not even very close.

Thief:
Trick Shot, Cluster Bomb, Choking Gas, Slice (sword auto-attack), Flanking Strike, Pistol Whip, Death Blossom, Dancing Dagger, Caltrops, Dagger Storm – Steal: Exploding Venom Sack, Throw Gunk, Whirling Axe

Ranger:
Slash (greatsword auto-attack), Maul, Swoop, Counterattack, Barrage, all arrow attacks with pierce, Slash (sword auto-attack), Ricochet, Splitblade, Path of Scars, Whirling Defense, Bonfire, Call Lightning, Flame Trap, Spike Trap, Viper’s Nest, Entangle – Pets: Poison Cloud, Poisonous Cloud, Frost Breath, Insect Swarm, Sonic Shriek, Lightning Breath, Fire Breath, Poison Gas

Counterattack is not AOE, but I wish it was. You’re entirely missing the point though—it’s not about how many millions okittends of ineffective or unreliable AOE options a class has, but whether or not there are a small few effective, reliable, and low-cooldown AOE options. Ranger has no skills that have a short cooldown that hit more than three targets except for piercing arrows. Thief has shortbow.

Compare either class to elementalist, which can kill five people at once in one or two seconds with a certain dagger/dagger build, and has sustainable short-cooldown AOE on every weapon.

Uhh they do its called axe it hits three targets and more quite effectively. Now bow skills no we only have Barrage as a true AoE … such as it is..