Guild Wars 2

Does Arenanet have a history of reversing nerfs to the Ranger, or any class for that matter?

A few have said that we all just need to calm down. Do we?

Did you just start playing as of today or are you purposely ignoring how they reversed the nerf to Astral Force degeneration less then a week ago?

Anet is basically politicians. They flip flop so much, they should run for office.

sevenDEADLY.5281:

Did you just start playing as of today or are you purposely ignoring how they reversed the nerf to Astral Force degeneration less then a week ago?

Yeah, there is that one. Are there any more?

Depends, if I tell you another one are you just going to keep asking me for more? You claimed you’ve never seen one and asked if they ever have. I gave you one. Now suddenly one isn’t enough. Is this going to be an endless thing where no matter how many examples I give you keep asking for more?

I mean, I’m just asking because if you’ve already made up your mind and this is a pointless rant where you’re not truly looking for more examples then there’s really no point then is there.

Does your blood pressure get higher with each question I ask?

I haven’t made up my mind. That’s why I asked the question.

I surely wouldn’t make up my mind with one example.

EnderzShadow.2506:

Does your blood pressure get higher with each question I ask?

I haven’t made up my mind. That’s why I asked the question.

I surely wouldn’t make up my mind with one example.

I’ll give you another then, WHaO.

Blew my mind with 2. Way to go.

Rogue Potato.4723:

EnderzShadow.2506:

Does your blood pressure get higher with each question I ask?

I haven’t made up my mind. That’s why I asked the question.

I surely wouldn’t make up my mind with one example.

I’ll give you another then, WHaO.

More of an over-nerf then a buff to nowhere near as much as the original. Not really a reversal, but, I guess we can accept this.

EnderzShadow.2506:

Blew my mind with 2. Way to go.

Think you can handle a third big boy? Bonfire radius.

AgitatedFox.5287:

EnderzShadow.2506:

Blew my mind with 2. Way to go.

Think you can handle a third big boy? Bonfire radius.

That wasn’t a reversal so much as a net buff. That was removing a trait that made the radius that high, then adding the radius in baseline later.

scaramanga.4915:

Anet is basically politicians. They flip flop so much, they should run for office.

this…..but your ranger always end up worse for it.

Chrispy.5641:

AgitatedFox.5287:

EnderzShadow.2506:

Blew my mind with 2. Way to go.

Think you can handle a third big boy? Bonfire radius.

That wasn’t a reversal so much as a net buff. That was removing a trait that made the radius that high, then adding the radius in baseline later.

It was perceived as a nerf when it first hit. Thats what I’m basing it on. You could say the same about WHaO otherwise.

It’s kind of like this…
They give you a delicious looking steak, let you smell it, maybe even have a bite.
Then some kitten at the table next to you starts screaming that it’s not fair that you get a steak and they don’t, even though they ordered ribs, so anet takes the steak and throws it in the trash.

When you try and ask why your steak got thrown in the trash they ignore you.
You end up getting kittened and demanding a new steak and when you cause a big enough scene they realize they need to do something to avoid bad pr.

At this point they will either give you a cheeseburger (that will likely be thrown away) or dig your steak out of the trash.
It’ll be dirty, it might be missing chunks where the rats got at it….. but hey, you got your steak back.

That’s a pretty good way to put it Jim.

@Agitated Fox, except for Astral Force, is there any example of a full 100% about-face reversal from Anet when it comes to Rangers?

Chrispy.5641:

@Agitated Fox, except for Astral Force, is there any example of a full 100% about-face reversal from Anet when it comes to Rangers?

My ranger history knowledge, coupled with my memory skills, aren’t good enough to give you definitive answer for that so let me ask you a question instead. Is there any example of a full 100% about-face reversal from Anet when it comes to any other class?

This is what ANet does with rangers: They will nerf a skill to near uselessness, and then over the course of two or three years, very, very slowly add little buffs to make that skill a little more useful . . . or re-tune it in some bizarre way . . . or not touch it at all.

Spirits, hyena, bleed builds, short bow, long bow, etc.

That’s not hyperbole. That’s ranger history. Your answer is no. But they will tweak some things to keep the natives from getting too restless.

The PvP community isn’t used to seeing a ranger class able to hold its own. They’re used to us being free kills. And they’re not happy about that change.

Thus the massive gutting of skills and pets.

And if you’re in doubt? Ranger is King of Underwater PvP combat. Do you know what happened to all the underwater combat in PvP including a certain PvP map?

There’s your answer.

Over nerfing/buffing something and then adjusting it is not a bad thing. In fact it’s a very good thing. Balance is a small moving target and sometimes it requires a few shots to connect. That said, I don’t think the devs are doing a great job at correcting themselves when they miss the mark. Rather than adjusting a few inches to the left, they shoot off in a totally different direction.

Imo Arenanet just needs to look to Riot for a good community involved balance process.

brave but volatile > stable but slow

I think I’d rather get occasionally stung by having shiney things dangled in front of my eyes and snatched away, than improvements happening at a pace so glacial it never really managed to outpace general powercreep and could be interpreted as inaction for months at a time.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

This is what ANet does with rangers: They will nerf a skill to near uselessness, and then over the course of two or three years, very, very slowly add little buffs to make that skill a little more useful . . . or re-tune it in some bizarre way . . . or not touch it at all.

Spirits, hyena, bleed builds, short bow, long bow, etc.

That’s not hyperbole. That’s ranger history. Your answer is no. But they will tweak some things to keep the natives from getting too restless.

The PvP community isn’t used to seeing a ranger class able to hold its own. They’re used to us being free kills. And they’re not happy about that change.

Thus the massive gutting of skills and pets.

And if you’re in doubt? Ranger is King of Underwater PvP combat. Do you know what happened to all the underwater combat in PvP including a certain PvP map?

There’s your answer.

They need to get it through their thick skulls to ignore PvP or separate it from PvE/WvW. Because seriously, whenever they nerf something for PvP they break Ranger across the board. Not to mention PvP in this game actively sucks because it’s all control, and we all know that anything that can bunker down is nerfed because it’s too good for modes like that. <_<

Khael.7325:

Over nerfing/buffing something and then adjusting it is not a bad thing. In fact it’s a very good thing. Balance is a small moving target and sometimes it requires a few shots to connect. That said, I don’t think the devs are doing a great job at correcting themselves when they miss the mark. Rather than adjusting a few inches to the left, they shoot off in a totally different direction.

It is a bad thing, it makes the balance team look unprofessional and biased. It also makes the development team look like they have zero clue about balance.

It is far better to say to the community “We are looking at this skill/trait because we think it is too powerful in certain circumstances, so we will shave it slightly several times until we get to where we think it is in a good place. Be aware it is going to change several times.”

To just smash something so hard so that it becomes terrible is a really bad thing. Look at how everyone is reacting to it. They could save all of that with communication and explanation.

If they actually adjusted things back up after this, often, until it was right, then it would work, but they never do this.

Vox Hollow.2736:

brave but volatile > stable but slow

I think I’d rather get occasionally stung by having shiney things dangled in front of my eyes and snatched away, than improvements happening at a pace so glacial it never really managed to outpace general powercreep and could be interpreted as inaction for months at a time.

We are getting both at once. Totally OP skills and traits making it into live and then over-reaction nerfs as well as glacial pace improvements over time.

It’s time to stop ‘booning’ skills and traits and adjust them incrementally, ie, no more than a 20% reduction in effectiveness at a time.

Jim Hunter.6821:

It’s kind of like this…
They give you a delicious looking steak, let you smell it, maybe even have a bite.
Then some kitten at the table next to you starts screaming that it’s not fair that you get a steak and they don’t, even though they ordered ribs, so anet takes the steak and throws it in the trash.

When you try and ask why your steak got thrown in the trash they ignore you.
You end up getting kittened and demanding a new steak and when you cause a big enough scene they realize they need to do something to avoid bad pr.

At this point they will either give you a cheeseburger (that will likely be thrown away) or dig your steak out of the trash.
It’ll be dirty, it might be missing chunks where the rats got at it….. but hey, you got your steak back.

brilliant and accurate.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Khael.7325:

Over nerfing/buffing something and then adjusting it is not a bad thing. In fact it’s a very good thing. Balance is a small moving target and sometimes it requires a few shots to connect. That said, I don’t think the devs are doing a great job at correcting themselves when they miss the mark. Rather than adjusting a few inches to the left, they shoot off in a totally different direction.

It is a bad thing, it makes the balance team look unprofessional and biased. It also makes the development team look like they have zero clue about balance.

It is far better to say to the community “We are looking at this skill/trait because we think it is too powerful in certain circumstances, so we will shave it slightly several times until we get to where we think it is in a good place. Be aware it is going to change several times.”

To just smash something so hard so that it becomes terrible is a really bad thing. Look at how everyone is reacting to it. They could save all of that with communication and explanation.

If they actually adjusted things back up after this, often, until it was right, then it would work, but they never do this.

Vox Hollow.2736:

brave but volatile > stable but slow

I think I’d rather get occasionally stung by having shiney things dangled in front of my eyes and snatched away, than improvements happening at a pace so glacial it never really managed to outpace general powercreep and could be interpreted as inaction for months at a time.

We are getting both at once. Totally OP skills and traits making it into live and then over-reaction nerfs as well as glacial pace improvements over time.

It’s time to stop ‘booning’ skills and traits and adjust them incrementally, ie, no more than a 20% reduction in effectiveness at a time.

exactly….we’ve historically received balance patches on average every 4 months. 90% of these changes are very small “shaves” (some are effective, but most are ineffective and need another iteration) and about 10% are WTF game-changers.

ideally, we’d get balance passes twice as frequently….at least 6 times a year (alternating each month w/ bug fix patches).

Jim Hunter.6821:

It’s kind of like this…
They give you a delicious looking steak, let you smell it, maybe even have a bite.
Then some kitten at the table next to you starts screaming that it’s not fair that you get a steak and they don’t, even though they ordered ribs, so anet takes the steak and throws it in the trash.

When you try and ask why your steak got thrown in the trash they ignore you.
You end up getting kittened and demanding a new steak and when you cause a big enough scene they realize they need to do something to avoid bad pr.

At this point they will either give you a cheeseburger (that will likely be thrown away) or dig your steak out of the trash.
It’ll be dirty, it might be missing chunks where the rats got at it….. but hey, you got your steak back.

I nearly peed my pants from reading this lol. This was pretty awesome and I certainly needed this to get my day started

Hats off to you sir!

How do you figure, Ashfiend?

I think of all the adjectives I’d use to describe the last month ‘slow’ wouldn’t be anywhere on the list.
It’s been so impactful a desire that’s been a constant refrain on this forum for years is almost relegated to a footnote because we actually have other things to be excited about other than Pet AOE reduction. This is leaps and bounds stuff.

Vox Hollow.2736:

How do you figure, Ashfiend?

I think of all the adjectives I’d use to describe the last month ‘slow’ wouldn’t be anywhere on the list.
It’s been so impactful a desire that’s been a constant refrain on this forum for years is almost relegated to a footnote because we actually have other things to be excited about other than Pet AOE reduction. This is leaps and bounds stuff.

I’m not exactly sure what you are asking here mate, can you clarify please?

If you meant my last comment that we get glacial speed changes over time then I stand by it. We just got an expansion, sure, things have changed a lot. But tons of the old issues and bugs still exist from 3 years ago, those are what I am referring to.