Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Harnel.6810

Harnel.6810

This thread is made in response the current speculation regarding the Druid elite specialization for the ranger. Specifically, what we know is that the Druid will add a new trait line, bring the staff weapon to the profession, change the way the profession mechanic (pets) works, and add a new class of skills to the profession.

This thread is focused on the last of those; the Skills

As I see it, there are five ways Arenanet can take this concept, and I’ll go over the pros and cons of each.

  • Physical Skills
  • Weapon Kits
  • Consecrations
  • Meditations
  • Minions

(As a disclaimer, I am personally against Physical Skills, Kits, and Minions, but out of respect for those that might like these, I’ll attempt to keep my bias out of the following post.)

Physical Skills:
Taken from the Warrior profession, Physical skills are typically control oriented abilities focused around using your body in a way that typically isn’t covered by a more esoteric skill type or the use of a weapon. This includes kicking people and shoulder-checking them, but the Specialization changes brought Rampage into the list of Physical Skills, suggesting transformations are possible with this skill type. Druidic physical skills would likely be transforming body parts into animal or plant-based features and smashing someone with them, or transforming wholesale into an animal.
-Pros: Rangers are not lacking for control effects – the problem is cleaving control effects, rather than single-target. Hilt Bash, Point Blank shot, and Canine takedowns are all single target, though the introduction of taunt as a pet specific mechanic has helped alleviate this slightly. Physical skills would add that class of control to the Ranger.
-Cons: Rangers don’t need more control to be effective. In fact, many would claim more control effects for the Ranger would be a bad idea, and I don’t believe lack of control ever been a complaint people have leveled at the profession, given the myriad other problems Rangers suffer from. there’s also thematic concerns that this idea suffers from – druids in Tyria are humans that ascended to become nature spirits, rather than the animal transformers they are in other games and worlds. Transformations also typically rid you of your profession mechanic and weapons, obviating something like 60% of all Ranger traits.

Weapon Kits:
Weapon Kits as utilized by the engineer are types of weaponry that you can quickly swap between for different playstyles; for example, grenades, a mortar gun, and a flamethrower. These weapons replace the existing weapon the character currently uses. For the purposes of a druid, these would likely be, much like the physical skills above; transformations in part of in whole to an animal or plant for the purpose of changing playstyle.
-Pros: A variety of playstyles would certainly increase the versatility of the Ranger class as a whole. A healing kit, a control kit, a damage kit, a tanking kit, and a buffing kit would all be useful for expanding the repertoire of what the Ranger is capable of as a whole.
-Cons: Kits presented in this way follow the same thematic concerns that are present in the Physical skills entry. Aside from that, there aren’t a lot of gaps here; a healing and/or buffing kit could easily cover team support, and the other kits could be custom built to deal with the other issues druids suffer from, and kits don’t disable the use of a profession mechanic like transformations do. Of course, that bonus goes out the window if these “kits” are indeed transformations with the serial numbers filed off. On top of this, there’s some speculation that thieves are going to be getting weapon kits, and I’d be shocked if Arenanet doubled up on Skills.

(edited by Harnel.6810)

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Harnel.6810

Harnel.6810

Consecrations:
Consecrations are ground effects that provide a utility or buff to those within or behind it, taken from the Guardian Profession. Examples include pulsing stability, condition removal, healing, and reflection of projectiles. The Druid take on these would most likely be areas of buff and healing potentially with some counter-enemy utility. One idea is a plant that spreads spores that buff allies and debuffs enemies in the area it affects.
-Pros: One of the biggest complaints that plague Rangers is that they lack any form of decent support – Frost Spirit and Spotter are the only usable team support abilities Rangers have, and they’re crippled because Frost Spirit is clunky and Spotter is obviated by a good build + Fury. These would apply utility buffs to allies, potentially deal conditions or damage to enemies while active, and what’s more would do them in an area, allowing you to work with allies for the sake of providing buffs to the team and yourself. Even in solo setups, providing a buff area to your pet as well as yourself can create situations much better than if you couldn’t place consecrations – Versatility is power, after all, and the ability to place buffs in specific places is definitely versatile, as the Guardian shows us. Even when solo, the pet provides a target for your support abilities; the Ranger just lacks any truly decent skills beyond survival and signet abilities, so any viable skills that don’t come with inherent problems would help shake things up.
-Cons: This solves a few complaints about the way ranger operate, and I can’t think of any serious cons to go with them, beyond perhaps obviating some existing skills, and that’s not even an inherently bad thing.

Meditations:
A curious form of skill, Meditations are another skill type that comes from the Guardian. They focus on personal ability to survive, spawning the infamous MediGuard bunker and DPS setup, as they obviate the need for defensive stats
-Pros: Meditations would provide the buffing necessary for the Ranger to maintain a strong DPS level, and even include some extra mobility with them. they’re much like consecrations in this, but unlike Consecrations, meditations fail to address certain important facets of the Ranger’s problems
-Cons: Meditations are selfish, except in a few unique circumstances. They’re very much focused on providing you the ability to eat whatever comes laughing, but don’t actually provide any team support – chances are, druid meditations would provide their benefits to your pet as well, but that’s not enough to justify it when (for example) the Team’s mesmer is suffering from the immobilize, weakness, and poison you just cleansed off yourself. Damage buff? Yes. Survivability buff? Yes. Team Support? No.

Minions:
I’m probably going to be yelled down for even suggesting this, but yes, Minions. With the advent of AI improvements to the game, minions may well become viable as minions. The druidic version of this skill type would almost definitely be summing plant creatures and animals to do your bidding; perhaps you call a bear to distract your enemies while a wolf trips them, while an Aloe Seed heals you and your teammates and the sapling oakheart that takes its place as your elite smashes things.
-Pros: From a thematic standpoint, this fits. Charming animals is something Rangers can already do, and Druids are plant based mages from all that we know, suggesting that the charming of plant creatures wouldn’t be beyond them. From a mechanical standpoint, if the staff provides buffs to the Ranger’s ability to team support what’s better than taking your own team into a fight, in addition to your allies?
-Cons: Battlefield clutter can be a real problem. As cool as having an eagle peck out your enemy’s eyes while you have a pet eat their shins would be, most AoEs have a target cap of 5, and that includes buffing AoEs, meaning your minions would be competing for buff space with your teammates, and in many situations that’s unacceptable. On top of this, minions are classically very very stupid. Pets have shades of this, but at least if you’re worried about your pet doing something dumb you can pull it away from the target. Minions have no such option, so even with AI improvements could cause serious issues for a team (Though, in theory, they could be attached to pet AI so you can control them whenever you control the pet). Additionally, they’d be competing for space with other, more useful skill classes to be added to the Ranger (notably consecrations) and step on the toes of the already existing pet mechanic. Finally, Signs are pointing to engineers getting drone minions, and once again I seriously doubt that Anet is going to double up on skill proliferation.

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Tragic Positive.9356

Tragic Positive.9356

I believe Mantras are still in the store. And would fit thematically. Haven’t thought about game-play much, though.

But they could be fine.

“Observe, learn and counter.”

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: MattyP.6954

MattyP.6954

I think that it would be interesting to have Transforms that augment, rather than replace, your current skills.

Not sure how it would be implemented in GW2, but I’m thinking of something similar the WoW Moonkin and Tree of Life forms—something like:

  1. Stag Form (healing): Increases Healing Power, Pulses AoE Healing, Pulses Regen, adds chance to cure conditions on hit.
  2. Jaguar Form: Increases Ferocity, pulses protection and might, adds a chance to daze on hit.
  3. Eagle Form: Increases Precision, pulses swiftness and fury, adds a chance to activate a weapon skill without triggering its cooldown
  4. Viper Form: Increases Condition Damage, adds vulnerability on hit, adds a chance to inflict poison and cripple on hit
  5. Bear Form (elite): Increases Power and Toughness, pulses Stability, Protection, and Might, adds chance to knockdown on hit

Now that I think of it, those work just as well as stances.

Server — Fort Aspenwood
Mains — Mathias of the Wood [Ranger]; Collaborator Bluatt [Engineer]
Alts — Necromancer, Warrior, Elementalist

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Ltomato.8649

Ltomato.8649

Yep, I’m on the Stance train!
Those seem to have the best potential.

Stances that affect both you AND your pet!

Eagle Stance could be like, 10% faster skills for x seconds.
Bear Stance could be take x% less damage for x seconds.
Wolf Stance could be x% more damage for x seconds.

And traits could be so cool too!

Activating a stance gives x boon depending on the stance to allies in a radius!
And more!

The only thing about this is that I remember in one of the blogposts that they said Druid was originally designed rather staff centered. Then again, it’s been a while, and things change, for sure!

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Tragic Positive.9356

Tragic Positive.9356

Buying tickets for the Stance train, too.
That sounds really interesting and might just add the needed flavor into our store.

“Observe, learn and counter.”

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Wondrouswall.7169

Wondrouswall.7169

Seems like Stances. Fits how they were interested before in “aspects” in the CDI. Keeping my expectations at zero so I don’t become disappointed, though.

PET PRECISION & DPS TESTS -OUTDATED-
Will update once Path of Fire releases.

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Harnel.6810

Harnel.6810

Alright, I’m also gonna hop on the “Stances Sound Cool” train, but with the condition that they somehow add to team buffing. The entire reason I prefer the idea of consecrations over meditations is because meditations don’t have a team buff aspect – if they had a way to do that with stances (say a trait that lets you apply your stances to all nearby allies) then I’d be all for it. I’d also seriously prefer if they weren’t transformations, for reasons mentioned in the opening posts.

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: lordhelmos.7623

lordhelmos.7623

My Sherlock senses point to consecrations. It fits the gw q Druid theme of glowing green circles all over. Ranger staff preview showed s line based immobilize skill. That would synergize well with trapping people in consecrations.

The reddit data mine also shows a possible throwing knife weapon kit for the staff thief spec. I think this nixes kits for ranger.

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Situations.2416

Situations.2416

I have a feeling druids will be like druids of WoW where they transform into certain things depending on the role they want to take in a given fight, which is interesting, but transformations on this game have always been clunky. Only reason rampage works is because it does 6k damage in each hit with cc’s and 2 rush abilities. If it didn’t have the damage or the CC it would be absolutely useless so really, I just hope if it is transformations , they do the transformation fluidly and correctly.

Sers De Larasoz ~ Level 80 Elementalist ~ [CSR]

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: samanosuke asakura.6240

samanosuke asakura.6240

i don"t care what we get aslong as there is more group play with druid

Honour and Pride and Devotion

Samanosuke Asakura Far shiver peaks

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Nachyochez.9758

Nachyochez.9758

I sincerely hope we’re looking at consecrations.

Ranger, as a solo class, is getting to a really good place. We have solid control, decent healing, survival w/o taking a hit to damage, plenty of build variety. The two areas we’re really hurting for is more straight up damage (condition is good, but our power builds could use just a bit more) and group utility. The majority of our CC is single target. same with heals, buffs, etc. One enemy, ourself/pet. So long as this is the case we’re always going to be considered ‘bottom tier’ for any group content.

Adding in consecrations the way the guard has them (lots of AoE/Group utility) is EXACTLY what the class needs, and it fits with the connotations of the ‘druid’ concept.

Skif F Galco (War) | Bas Flaith (Thf) | Rawr Doomshot (Rng) | Cheshire Glamourclaw (Mes)

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Tragic Positive.9356

Tragic Positive.9356

Let’s hope we won’t get something like the glorious Spirit rework ;D
Anything viable is fine by me.

“Observe, learn and counter.”

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: TheFantasticGman.9451

TheFantasticGman.9451

I don’t see the Druid spec doing healing better than the Ele or Guard while maintaining the some level of DPS. I’d love to think that the Druid espec would bring me back to the Ranger… but… After playing Ele and Thief, and looking at Rev w/Shiro… I just don’t see Druid doing enough to bring me back to the Ranger. Maybe a future elite spec that dumps the pet and brings lots of damage modifiers would be enough, but … I’m done holding out hope for anything regarding the Ranger.

Speaking from a PVE-only point of view…

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Harnel.6810

Harnel.6810

Well Gman, I can see one way they could do it, but I don’t know if people would be happy about it.

Pet mastery could be the focus of the Druid. Fold the stats of two different pets into one (so if your two pets are a salamander drake primary and a jungle cat secondary, your drake gets all the cat’s stats added on) and make the F4 heal it instead of swapping it out and suddenly you have a horrifying bruiser of a beast that more than makes up for your own lack of damage, shifting the focus away from you and allowing you to focus on keeping everybody standing and buffed.

That’s just quick and dirty of course, as an example. Assuming they found a way to actually balance the double-pet (probably by only adding together the precision and power stats and then increasing attack speed and base damage slightly), it could theoretically cover any basic DPS loss by the ranger.

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Raven.9603

Raven.9603

I thought they already confirmed that we would still have the pet “out” (correct me if im wrong). Which means it’s still going to need some control buttons (F1, F3, F4). Which means stances aren’t very likely, more likely something like “aspects” (a personal or party based aura buff) tied to what major family of pet you have out.

Agree with everyone here on the serious need for a party / group roll. This GWEN nonsense needs to stop. The leather folk really need to be given the tools that would make them included in team based play.

For the Ranger, the class thematic way to do that would be to change the way spirits work and add consecrations or wells.

Spirits should just be auras that radiate from the ranger, and are perhaps “symbolized” by a (non-combat, indestructible) npc spirit following the ranger, and that would’ve gone a long way towards having them be included.

Wells / consecrations: Each one could be a different nature based combo field with a positive effect for allies and a negative effect for enemies, so they could be used either offensively or defensively. What matters is just an improvement to our access of combo fields and both offensive and defense AOE damage/buffs/debuffs and not the specifics of what I suggest.

These are just examples / ideas and not thought of too much for balance:

Spring Awakens: A bunch of strange flowers grow up, some grasp at feet and some explode. Poison field, enemies are immoblized and poisoned. Allies gain vigor. 60sec cd.

Summer Storm: Water field, pulses regen, enemies in the area are struck by lightning each pulse and made vulnerable. 30 sec cd.

Autumn Fog: Smoke field, pulses blindness, pulses condi clear. 60 sec..

Winter’s Gasp: Snowstorm. Ice Field, pulses chill, pulses retaliation. 45 sec..

SBI | Oceans | Ranger – Thief – Ele – Eng – Nec – Guard – Rev
Celestial Avatar is like an old man: Takes forever to get up and is spent in 4 seconds

(edited by Raven.9603)

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Harnel.6810

Harnel.6810

I thought they already confirmed that we would still have the pet “out” (correct me if im wrong).

Not directly as far as I know, but the Druid in the announcement trailer had an alpine wolf with him and Anet has gone on record stating numerous times that Rangers will never drop the pet.

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Durzlla.6295

Durzlla.6295

I thought they already confirmed that we would still have the pet “out” (correct me if im wrong).

Not directly as far as I know, but the Druid in the announcement trailer had an alpine wolf with him and Anet has gone on record stating numerous times that Rangers will never drop the pet.

They have stated repeatedly that the ranger and all elite specializations of the ranger WILL use a pet, however some may use one less than others (IE there may be a mechanic where you swap between having a pet out and having no pet out), but the pet will always need to be utilized to play ranger to its maximum efficiency, just like eles will need to attunements swap and necros will need death shroud.

They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: TheFantasticGman.9451

TheFantasticGman.9451

Yup… but unlike the pet attunements and death shroud aren’t controlled by AI… which is the achillies heel of the Ranger mechanic.

I must’ve missed the 100% confirmation from Anet where they said that every Ranger Elite Spec that will ever come out will always use the Pet in it’s current form as a chunk of your DPS. If that’s the case I really can just write off the Ranger for anything meaninful in PVE. I guess I’ll just continue to focus on Thief, Ele, and Rev with some guard and warrior.

Speaking from a PVE-only point of view…

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Durzlla.6295

Durzlla.6295

Yup… but unlike the pet attunements and death shroud aren’t controlled by AI… which is the achillies heel of the Ranger mechanic.

I must’ve missed the 100% confirmation from Anet where they said that every Ranger Elite Spec that will ever come out will always use the Pet in it’s current form as a chunk of your DPS. If that’s the case I really can just write off the Ranger for anything meaninful in PVE. I guess I’ll just continue to focus on Thief, Ele, and Rev with some guard and warrior.

They didn’t say that, they said that the pet will always be present and will always be part of the ranger, aka there will NEVER be a perma stow option and if there’s ever an option for not having your pet out you’ll not be gaining much, if any, damage from it.

They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Dardamaniac.1295

Dardamaniac.1295

After 3 years still my pet finds some really strange paths to chase foes sometimes.. Sometimes i find myself screaming at it “JUST GO STRAIGHT YOU STUPID BURDEN”..

What really scares me with Druid specialization is if an option where you merge with your pet comes out i strongly believe that its the end for every other thing Ranger has..

It would be like we were playing for 3 years a beta class.. And we can finally say “Ooooh! So thats how it is?”

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Durzlla.6295

Durzlla.6295

After 3 years still my pet finds some really strange paths to chase foes sometimes.. Sometimes i find myself screaming at it “JUST GO STRAIGHT YOU STUPID BURDEN”..

What really scares me with Druid specialization is if an option where you merge with your pet comes out i strongly believe that its the end for every other thing Ranger has..

It would be like we were playing for 3 years a beta class.. And we can finally say “Ooooh! So thats how it is?”

well if we merge with our pet it’ll be for utility, not damage.

They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Ramoth.5162

Ramoth.5162

Unless they give me much greater control over my pet, ooh, how about a decent pet heal, what is the point of merging with a soon to be dead pet. I just don’t see it functioning.
I rather liked an option that my White Lion had in Warhammer. I could choose to run with my lion, or go loner spec with a change in runes. The idea that the loner spec would give you back a decent percentage of your dps to make up for the fact that your cat, who was usually across the zone doing….something, isn’t out. Was nice to concentrate on RvR instead of wondering why my lion was in Dragonwake and not Caledor where I was.

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Wuselknusel.4082

Wuselknusel.4082

After 3 years still my pet finds some really strange paths to chase foes sometimes.. Sometimes i find myself screaming at it “JUST GO STRAIGHT YOU STUPID BURDEN”..

What really scares me with Druid specialization is if an option where you merge with your pet comes out i strongly believe that its the end for every other thing Ranger has..

It would be like we were playing for 3 years a beta class.. And we can finally say “Ooooh! So thats how it is?”

well if we merge with our pet it’ll be for utility, not damage.

If we merge with our pet for utility, it will see no use in the current PvE environment.

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Harnel.6810

Harnel.6810

After 3 years still my pet finds some really strange paths to chase foes sometimes.. Sometimes i find myself screaming at it “JUST GO STRAIGHT YOU STUPID BURDEN”..

What really scares me with Druid specialization is if an option where you merge with your pet comes out i strongly believe that its the end for every other thing Ranger has..

It would be like we were playing for 3 years a beta class.. And we can finally say “Ooooh! So thats how it is?”

well if we merge with our pet it’ll be for utility, not damage.

If we merge with our pet for utility, it will see no use in the current PvE environment.

Which is the best argument for them not doing it at all.

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Durzlla.6295

Durzlla.6295

After 3 years still my pet finds some really strange paths to chase foes sometimes.. Sometimes i find myself screaming at it “JUST GO STRAIGHT YOU STUPID BURDEN”..

What really scares me with Druid specialization is if an option where you merge with your pet comes out i strongly believe that its the end for every other thing Ranger has..

It would be like we were playing for 3 years a beta class.. And we can finally say “Ooooh! So thats how it is?”

well if we merge with our pet it’ll be for utility, not damage.

If we merge with our pet for utility, it will see no use in the current PvE environment.

It will absolutely see use, just not by people trying to be “meta” in the current PvE environment.

They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: TheFantasticGman.9451

TheFantasticGman.9451

Indeed. The PHIW crowd will use it no matter what.

Yup… but unlike the pet attunements and death shroud aren’t controlled by AI… which is the achillies heel of the Ranger mechanic.

I must’ve missed the 100% confirmation from Anet where they said that every Ranger Elite Spec that will ever come out will always use the Pet in it’s current form as a chunk of your DPS. If that’s the case I really can just write off the Ranger for anything meaninful in PVE. I guess I’ll just continue to focus on Thief, Ele, and Rev with some guard and warrior.

They didn’t say that, they said that the pet will always be present and will always be part of the ranger, aka there will NEVER be a perma stow option and if there’s ever an option for not having your pet out you’ll not be gaining much, if any, damage from it.

Well, yeah, I knew that as part of the Ranger the pet will always be, but they haven’t ruled it out for Elite Specs. Like I said, though, if they extend that sad line of thought to the Elite Specs then, yup, my Ranger is truely dead to me.

Speaking from a PVE-only point of view…

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: Liewec.2896

Liewec.2896

as a gw1 player i’m putting my money on stances too,
they were one of the few classes with stances in the original game.
it’d be very shocking if they didn’t give rangers stances.

Druid Speculation - Specialization Skills

in Ranger

Posted by: CandyHearts.6025

CandyHearts.6025

Would love to see druid get – Consecrations, Meditations, Or Mantras. Wanting to see them get some cleanses, and more support for team play the most!

But most importantly~

I’d like to see them get a sled pulled by a pack of bunnies like Radagast. xD

Here’s hoping we get a reveal next week! I can’t take it much longer! >.<