Guild Wars 2

I know it’s abit too late to give suggestion, and it’s too much work for Anet to implant such idea, but what if Druid’s transformation works like kit, which you slot the transformation skills on 6 7 8 9 0, with each of them get access to 5 different weapon skills, with minimal CD (1 second), just like kit?

I’ll provide some examples:

6th skill: Deer transform:
Transform you into a deer and get access to healing skills, boons, condition removal. (functions like heal kit)

7~9
Transform into Wolf for fast paste offensive skills and movement skills.

Transform into Bear for defensive skills and AOE skills.

Transform into Snake for condition skills and CC skills

Elite Transformation:

Transform into a Nature Guardian and gain access to powerful skills.

I know it’s abit too much to expect since Anet barely care about ranger that much.
But one can still dream right?

Everyone wants kits these days. But there are just very few people, who get that you have to pay for something like that. Engineers have kits, but the fewest weapon sets of all professions (3 sets, 4 including scrapper). Also engineer don’t have weapon swap. There are traits, which will grant effects for the ranger on weapon swap, so it doesn’t seem like they will remove it. If they don’t remove weapon swap, these new kits for ranger must be very very VERY weak to get this balanced.

Kodama.6453:

Everyone wants kits these days. But there are just very few people, who get that you have to pay for something like that. Engineers have kits, but the fewest weapon sets of all professions (3 sets, 4 including scrapper). Also engineer don’t have weapon swap. There are traits, which will grant effects for the ranger on weapon swap, so it doesn’t seem like they will remove it. If they don’t remove weapon swap, these new kits for ranger must be very very VERY weak to get this balanced.

Ranger is not top nouche to begin with, plus Engi’s new specialization seem to counter all projectile-base classes. (which is, yknow, rangers…)

Also ranger is a class that rely heavily on trait and utilities just to do what every other classes could do: Condition removal.
You need to spec for WK and bring 3~4 survival skills just to get enough condition removal for ranger. (and Healing Spring got nerfed to oblivion)

It wouldn’t be unfair for ranger to get kits due to the class limitation itself.
Plus kits themselves may not necessary synergize well with all the rangers’ specs.
We still make hard choices, sacrifice one full trait line just to get access to kit.

Isn’t this enough sacrifices already?

I don’t share your opinion that kits for rangers wouldn’t be unfair. But even if I would: why should this new shape shifting ability be kits?

Your suggestion was to transform to an animal. I think it would be better to make these new skills to a new form of transformation, where you are still able to use your utility skills. But if you leave the transformation, it will go on CD. I think it would be odd to blink from deer to wolf and back in a time frame of just a second.

Kodama.6453:

I don’t share your opinion that kits for rangers wouldn’t be unfair. But even if I would: why should this new shape shifting ability be kits?

Your suggestion was to transform to an animal. I think it would be better to make these new skills to a new form of transformation, where you are still able to use your utility skills. But if you leave the transformation, it will go on CD. I think it would be odd to blink from deer to wolf and back in a time frame of just a second.

The CD doesn’t has to be as short as 1 sec if you’re concerning about balance, but the CD must not be long, or else it’d be useless mechanic..

If transform turn out to be like Ele’s Tornado, getting 4 crap skills while locking all other skills during transformation, with a 120 CD, I doubt Druid will be anywhere competitive in PVP.

Kit-like transform is so far is the best pick for Druid if they want to make ranger anywhere decent.

Aomine.5012:

…Kit-like transform is so far is the best pick for Druid if they want to make ranger anywhere decent.

In your opinion, sure. In mine, it would be horrible.

They can achieve the same thing with aspects modifying weapon skills, leaving the utility skills intact.

Traps, although, should be an elite kit. Imo.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Aomine.5012:

…Kit-like transform is so far is the best pick for Druid if they want to make ranger anywhere decent.

In your opinion, sure. In mine, it would be horrible.

They can achieve the same thing with aspects modifying weapon skills, leaving the utility skills intact.

Traps, although, should be an elite kit. Imo.

Do you know how kit works?

They leave the utility intact, and only modify the weapon skills.

You can still use signets and other heal skill while carry 1 or 2 transform (kit)..

Aomine.5012:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Aomine.5012:

…Kit-like transform is so far is the best pick for Druid if they want to make ranger anywhere decent.

In your opinion, sure. In mine, it would be horrible.

They can achieve the same thing with aspects modifying weapon skills, leaving the utility skills intact.

Traps, although, should be an elite kit. Imo.

Do you know how kit works?

They leave the utility intact, and only modify the weapon skills.

You can still use signets and other heal skill while carry 1 or 2 transform (kit)..

Yeah, I seemed to get my wires crossed somewhere there.
You still need to sacrifice a utility slot to bring it, though.
But, either way, it would be better if aspects did the same thing on F1-5 skills and leave the utilities alone because they are very required for Ranger builds, unless the kits are going to have condi removal and fury applications, signet like effects etc.

I’m not saying kits are bad, I’m saying transformations are bad. I advocate for all traps to be made an elite kit so that all utility slots are still available.

Why should they make traps to an elite kit? If they would do so, thieves and dragonhunters would complain, why their traps don’t get the same treatment and so on. If traps aren’t “worth a utility slot”, they should buff them, but don’t make them an elite kit. And ranger traps aren’t that bad, there are several condi rangers in PvP doing very well with them.

And a transformation for ranger which gives you the ability to use your utility skills in it, well, the cd doesn’t have to be that long like tornado. But there has to be a decent one (like 30-40s) and a cast time. It would be too much balancing work for Anet otherwise.

And even with cd and cast time, the balancing work is insane. Why do kits on engineer work like they do? They just have to balance it with 1 of 3 weapon sets the same time. Rangers have 11 weapon sets (correct me pls if I’m wrong) and are able to use 2 of them at the same time. ALL new “kits” for rangers have to be balanced for ALL kit AND weapon set combinations. Do you realize how hard this would be to achieve?

Kodama.6453:

Why should they make traps to an elite kit? If they would do so, thieves and dragonhunters would complain, why their traps don’t get the same treatment and so on. If traps aren’t “worth a utility slot”, they should buff them, but don’t make them an elite kit. And ranger traps aren’t that bad, there are several condi rangers in PvP doing very well with them.

And a transformation for ranger which gives you the ability to use your utility skills in it, well, the cd doesn’t have to be that long like tornado. But there has to be a decent one (like 30-40s) and a cast time. It would be too much balancing work for Anet otherwise.

And even with cd and cast time, the balancing work is insane. Why do kits on engineer work like they do? They just have to balance it with 1 of 3 weapon sets the same time. Rangers have 11 weapon sets (correct me pls if I’m wrong) and are able to use 2 of them at the same time. ALL new “kits” for rangers have to be balanced for ALL kit AND weapon set combinations. Do you realize how hard this would be to achieve?

I said traps, not Ranger traps, meaning all traps. If all traps were elite kits, you’d have to sacrifice your elite to use them, but you also gain access to your utility skills, meaning trapper builds would be actually viable for PvP and PvE. There are no Rangers in top tier PvP at all, let alone ones with no stun breakers and using EB for condi removal. But, a survivalist Ranger with an elite trap kit would be amazingly effective, as would the other classes trap builds. Right now, you cannot give up so much utility in competitive play, against good players, and remain viable.

I’ll say it again. I’m fine with kits since Ranger has access to the least amount of skills for any class, but I’m not OK with transformations.

If you want to make traps in an elite kit, than you have to nerf traps by a HUGE amount. Ranger traps provide immense condi pressure and are unblockable, getting all these by one slot is totally op.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Aomine.5012:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Aomine.5012:

…Kit-like transform is so far is the best pick for Druid if they want to make ranger anywhere decent.

In your opinion, sure. In mine, it would be horrible.

They can achieve the same thing with aspects modifying weapon skills, leaving the utility skills intact.

Traps, although, should be an elite kit. Imo.

Do you know how kit works?

They leave the utility intact, and only modify the weapon skills.

You can still use signets and other heal skill while carry 1 or 2 transform (kit)..

Yeah, I seemed to get my wires crossed somewhere there.
You still need to sacrifice a utility slot to bring it, though.
But, either way, it would be better if aspects did the same thing on F1-5 skills and leave the utilities alone because they are very required for Ranger builds, unless the kits are going to have condi removal and fury applications, signet like effects etc.

I’m not saying kits are bad, I’m saying transformations are bad. I advocate for all traps to be made an elite kit so that all utility slots are still available.

If it’s F5, then you’d only get 5 skills regardless, and can’t make any strategic decision.
Yeah, the pet may modify what you transform into, but I doubt there’d have different skills, and may potentially hinder your choice of pet if you want certain transform.

But it saves Anet ALOT of work so they can be abit lazy though, so I definitely understand why they make it f5..

Just hope the CD is very short, like at most 5 seconds…
Please not 60 or 120 secs CD…

Kodama.6453:

If you want to make traps in an elite kit, than you have to nerf traps by a HUGE amount. Ranger traps provide immense condi pressure and are unblockable, getting all these by one slot is totally op.

How would it differ from a 5 kit engi with access to 35 skills at any time, or a Conjure Tempest with access to 45? Ranger has access to 16 skills, 10 of which are locked behind a 10s weapon swap. If traps had an elite kit, that would rise to 20 possible skills, assuming they also added an elite trap to make the kit have 5 skills, Ele has that many just with weapon skills. The reason condi Engi is far better than condi Ranger in is the amount of condi pressure they can put out due to kits. 5 unblockable traps with CDs of 15, 20, 30, 45 and 60s (elite) is hardly OP when you compare it to that.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Kodama.6453:

If you want to make traps in an elite kit, than you have to nerf traps by a HUGE amount. Ranger traps provide immense condi pressure and are unblockable, getting all these by one slot is totally op.

How would it differ from a 5 kit engi with access to 35 skills at any time, or a Conjure Tempest with access to 45? Ranger has access to 16 skills, 10 of which are locked behind a 10s weapon swap. If traps had an elite kit, that would rise to 20 possible skills, assuming they also added an elite trap to make the kit have 5 skills, Ele has that many just with weapon skills. The reason condi Engi is far better than condi Ranger in is the amount of condi pressure they can put out due to kits. 5 unblockable traps with CDs of 15, 20, 30, 45 and 60s (elite) is hardly OP when you compare it to that.

Engineer weapons itself are balanced around the ability to have kits for equipping, they are weaker than most weapons of other professions. Ranger doesn’t have this treatment and traps are balanced around the fact that you can equip just one of them per utility slot. Maybe you don’t see it that way, but for me it is absoutely clear that traps would need a nerf when you want them to be a kit.

No kit of engineers have 5 unblockable skills. IF they have any, then just one per kit.

Kodama.6453:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Kodama.6453:

If you want to make traps in an elite kit, than you have to nerf traps by a HUGE amount. Ranger traps provide immense condi pressure and are unblockable, getting all these by one slot is totally op.

How would it differ from a 5 kit engi with access to 35 skills at any time, or a Conjure Tempest with access to 45? Ranger has access to 16 skills, 10 of which are locked behind a 10s weapon swap. If traps had an elite kit, that would rise to 20 possible skills, assuming they also added an elite trap to make the kit have 5 skills, Ele has that many just with weapon skills. The reason condi Engi is far better than condi Ranger in is the amount of condi pressure they can put out due to kits. 5 unblockable traps with CDs of 15, 20, 30, 45 and 60s (elite) is hardly OP when you compare it to that.

Engineer weapons itself are balanced around the ability to have kits for equipping, they are weaker than most weapons of other professions. Ranger doesn’t have this treatment and traps are balanced around the fact that you can equip just one of them per utility slot. Maybe you don’t see it that way, but for me it is absoutely clear that traps would need a nerf when you want them to be a kit.

No kit of engineers have 5 unblockable skills. IF they have any, then just one per kit.

Actually Engi’s weapons are not weaker than any of the currently available weapons to other classes. Some of them are actually far better than other classes.
Their rifle is far better than Warrior’s Rifle, with good CC, good damage, and good burst. Their pistols are better condition source than ranger’s SB. Their shield is the best shield in the entire game. (Far better than Guardian’s and Warrior’s shields. Weirdest design of every MMO I played lol)

Engi’s is balanced around the inability to swap weapon, but they’re also compensated with 5 addition skills (f1~f5).

Their kit is also optional to begin with (although most Engi carries at least 1~2 kits most of the time)

Ranger getting kit-like transform doesn’t break the balance that much because:

1. There’s no additional f1~f5 skills to compensate anything.

2. They need to “sacrifice” a full trait line just to gain access to kit. (And ranger’s survival abilities are all bound to traits, so sacrificing a trait line is a huge deal)

3. Some weapons (GS, SB, main-hand axe) seem to be the inferior version of other classes’ weapons.

4. They still need to waste utility/ heal/ elite spots to put on the transforms themselves.

So do you really think ranger getting kits are so game-breaking, even though the developers can be very careful with each of their skills’ strengths?

Druid mechanic: a new pet.

Kodama.6453:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Kodama.6453:

If you want to make traps in an elite kit, than you have to nerf traps by a HUGE amount. Ranger traps provide immense condi pressure and are unblockable, getting all these by one slot is totally op.

How would it differ from a 5 kit engi with access to 35 skills at any time, or a Conjure Tempest with access to 45? Ranger has access to 16 skills, 10 of which are locked behind a 10s weapon swap. If traps had an elite kit, that would rise to 20 possible skills, assuming they also added an elite trap to make the kit have 5 skills, Ele has that many just with weapon skills. The reason condi Engi is far better than condi Ranger in is the amount of condi pressure they can put out due to kits. 5 unblockable traps with CDs of 15, 20, 30, 45 and 60s (elite) is hardly OP when you compare it to that.

Engineer weapons itself are balanced around the ability to have kits for equipping, they are weaker than most weapons of other professions. Ranger doesn’t have this treatment and traps are balanced around the fact that you can equip just one of them per utility slot. Maybe you don’t see it that way, but for me it is absoutely clear that traps would need a nerf when you want them to be a kit.

No kit of engineers have 5 unblockable skills. IF they have any, then just one per kit.

That is totally incorrect. You can run an engi with no weapons at all and its still better than a trap Ranger. Even without any weapons at all they have access to double the amount of skills a Ranger does.

Traps and kits both take up utility slots. Flame Trap is Rangers best damage trap, lets use that as a comparison. CD is 15s. Are you suggesting that a fire field with 3 pulses of an unblockable 80 damage and 2.5s of burning is even remotely as effective as something like Grenade kit? Fire Bomb on the Bomb kit has a 10s CD, 4 pulses of 71 damage and 3s burning, is also a fire field and you can set it off at will, no need to trigger it.

You can’t directly compete engineer skills with ranger skills. They are different and so there is no point in here. Flame trap has advantages, fire bomb has advantages, they are just different.

Examples for advantages of fire trap: it is unblockable, it will trigger if an enemy walks in (this CAN be an advantage), it will trigger rune of the trapper

I say just accept that traps are exactly that: traps. An own utility category and you have to spend a slot for all traps. That doesn’t mean we can’t buff traps til they are worth this slot. But if you really think we should make it a kit, well, why not with other skills too? All kinds of minions in this game aren’t really worth their slot, so why not make a minion kit? A turret kit? Spirit weapon kit?

Most players think venom lack something, so just make them a kit!

And so on. Accept the concept and let’s discuss how to make the seperated traps worth.

Kodama.6453:

You can’t directly compete engineer skills with ranger skills. They are different and so there is no point in here. Flame trap has advantages, fire bomb has advantages, they are just different.

Examples for advantages of fire trap: it is unblockable, it will trigger if an enemy walks in (this CAN be an advantage), it will trigger rune of the trapper

I say just accept that traps are exactly that: traps. An own utility category and you have to spend a slot for all traps. That doesn’t mean we can’t buff traps til they are worth this slot. But if you really think we should make it a kit, well, why not with other skills too? All kinds of minions in this game aren’t really worth their slot, so why not make a minion kit? A turret kit? Spirit weapon kit?

Most players think venom lack something, so just make them a kit!

And so on. Accept the concept and let’s discuss how to make the seperated traps worth.

That is a decent idea, we really do need more bar compression for other classes and all those skill types mentioned are on classes that need it. As long as you make them all Elite kits, it won’t become OP at all. Good idea, +1.

I cannot accept that traps remain traps, they are kitten without utility. If you tied some stability, stun breaks and condition removal to traps, then they would be fine.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Kodama.6453:

You can’t directly compete engineer skills with ranger skills. They are different and so there is no point in here. Flame trap has advantages, fire bomb has advantages, they are just different.

Examples for advantages of fire trap: it is unblockable, it will trigger if an enemy walks in (this CAN be an advantage), it will trigger rune of the trapper

I say just accept that traps are exactly that: traps. An own utility category and you have to spend a slot for all traps. That doesn’t mean we can’t buff traps til they are worth this slot. But if you really think we should make it a kit, well, why not with other skills too? All kinds of minions in this game aren’t really worth their slot, so why not make a minion kit? A turret kit? Spirit weapon kit?

Most players think venom lack something, so just make them a kit!

And so on. Accept the concept and let’s discuss how to make the seperated traps worth.

That is a decent idea, we really do need more bar compression for other classes and all those skill types mentioned are on classes that need it. As long as you make them all Elite kits, it won’t become OP at all. Good idea, +1.

I cannot accept that traps remain traps, they are kitten without utility. If you tied some stability, stun breaks and condition removal to traps, then they would be fine.

Ok now you are trolling.

The second thing you said is what I meant. BUFF traps, don’t compress them. I don’t see a reason why we shouldn’t give a trap a stun break. Condition removal is already there on healing spring. Stability, well, I don’t know if this is really needed. Stability is a rare effect and should stay like this. Maybe as a trait or rune, but defenitely not baseline.

Kodama.6453:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Kodama.6453:

You can’t directly compete engineer skills with ranger skills. They are different and so there is no point in here. Flame trap has advantages, fire bomb has advantages, they are just different.

Examples for advantages of fire trap: it is unblockable, it will trigger if an enemy walks in (this CAN be an advantage), it will trigger rune of the trapper

I say just accept that traps are exactly that: traps. An own utility category and you have to spend a slot for all traps. That doesn’t mean we can’t buff traps til they are worth this slot. But if you really think we should make it a kit, well, why not with other skills too? All kinds of minions in this game aren’t really worth their slot, so why not make a minion kit? A turret kit? Spirit weapon kit?

Most players think venom lack something, so just make them a kit!

And so on. Accept the concept and let’s discuss how to make the seperated traps worth.

That is a decent idea, we really do need more bar compression for other classes and all those skill types mentioned are on classes that need it. As long as you make them all Elite kits, it won’t become OP at all. Good idea, +1.

I cannot accept that traps remain traps, they are kitten without utility. If you tied some stability, stun breaks and condition removal to traps, then they would be fine.

Ok now you are trolling.

The second thing you said is what I meant. BUFF traps, don’t compress them. I don’t see a reason why we shouldn’t give a trap a stun break. Condition removal is already there on healing spring. Stability, well, I don’t know if this is really needed. Stability is a rare effect and should stay like this. Maybe as a trait or rune, but defenitely not baseline.

Unless there is a way to get stability with a trap, break a stun with a trap and remove more conditions on a shorter CD than HS, because you can’t use EB as the pet just melts, traps will never see top tier competitive play. Period.

More conditions removed with shorter cd than HS? It is 10 conditions for 24s cd, that’s extremely strong.

Kodama.6453:

More conditions removed with shorter cd than HS? It is 10 conditions for 24s cd, that’s extremely strong.

It could be a million every 24s and they will just wait until you use it, then load you ip.

Kodama.6453:

More conditions removed with shorter cd than HS? It is 10 conditions for 24s cd, that’s extremely strong.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Spring

Healing Spring only remove one condition per TWO seconds, so a total of 5 maximum.

Healing Spring got nerfed to ground. Because it becomes a trap, it takes a few sec just to trigger it. You also need to leave the place and walk in again to use it. Extremely Clunky.

By the time HS triggers, you’re already in deep trouble.

Also your foes can always wait the HS out and load you with condition. It’s an instant death after HS expired since you have 0 condition removal afterward. (Because traps waste all the utility bar,)