Guild Wars 2

I do want to reinforce – we absolutely plan to do a major quarterly balance updates every 3 months (with a short period after each update to make small tweaks before the next PvP league season begins). The next one is due to arrive after this current PvP season ends.

There are loads of reasons why HoT was considered for us the first big balance update (and the month that followed it) for this PvP League and we couldn’t do any more balance updates before this one, but the reality is none of them really matter since they are just words. What you all care about is action.

As we’ve said before: in 2016 we’ll do one major balance update every 3 months; shortly the balance team will start discussing with you the next big balance update for early 2016 with everyone to gather feedback; and hopefully in the future action will reinforce expectations.

I realize it’s not the immediate answer everyone wants to hear this second, but it’s the realistic one of where we are today – and where we will be when 2016 starts. I’m not entirely sure why this wasn’t clear before now, and I’ll try and get to the bottom of why that messaging wasn’t provided, but that’s exactly where we stand today.

Balance is super important in a world where WvW, Raids, Fractals, PvP, etc. are key components to Gw2’s success. And ensuring we have a new major balance update you can count on every 3 months is one of our keys to accomplishing that goal.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3v0x29/how_do_anet_expect_us_to_take_pvp_seriously_when/cxk2yny

How I read it:
- Druids’ AF generation will remain broken till early 2016
- I will have to keep on losing a utility slot and having beastmastery just to ensure enough AF generation to hit the 10 sec cooldown while in combat till hopefully early 2016
- I will have to keep on asking for a suicide before every sanctum/arena GvG/Scrim round to be able to charge my AF till hopefully early 2016 (because still no OOC AF generation)
- But I should rejoice! Someone is about to gather some precious feedbacks

pathetic, a horror company.
“let a broken pj for a few months they have already spent their money on us …”
pathetic.

And the worst is that I have little faith that solve anything after three years …. and I regret spending a single € with them …

This is why the devs post things much more on reddit rather than this forum…

You guys just CANT stop complaining for everything. EVERY single thing.

The ranger class is in better spot now than what it ever was since the beginning of the game 3 years ago. MUCH better. It’s a viable and much desirable class in all 3 game modes.

PS: AF generation is not broken. You just don’t like it so you call it broken. Broken was to stand in front of 5 afk people, click #6 and get full AF in the next 3 secs.

PS2: You don’t have to “keep on losing a utility slot”, where did you get that?

PS3: You don’t have to take beastmastery. In fact beastmastery is only mandatory in the PvP cele druid build. Raid druids don’t even touch it.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

This is why the devs post things much more on reddit rather than this forum…

You guys just CANT stop complaining for everything. EVERY single thing.

The ranger class is in better spot now than what it ever was since the beginning of the game 3 years ago. MUCH better. It’s a viable and much desirable class in all 3 game modes.

PS: AF generation is not broken. You just don’t like it so you call it broken. Broken was to stand in front of 5 afk people, click #6 and get full AF in the next 3 secs.

PS2: You don’t have to “keep on losing a utility slot”, where did you get that?

PS3: You don’t have to take beastmastery. In fact beastmastery is only mandatory in the PvP cele druid build. Raid druids don’t even touch it.

Greetings ANet’sFanboy.#2860,
1) Reddit gets as much complaining as this forum, check the comments
2) Most of the current complaining on every topic is legit, they failed hard
3) Druid is not 3 years old, and the specialization is not fine
4) AF generation is broken because of its per tick model
5) No out-of-combat AF generation is a pain in WvW/GvG/Scrims
6) Don’t assume that everything is about raids (where AF is fine)
7) I won’t explain the utility & beastmastery part, fast way to generate AF
Have a nice day.

That’s the way I read the dev’s post, feel free to read it differently.

Well, we can always count on a bunch of nerfs during this period, thats got to count for something i guess.

Earix.5684:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

This is why the devs post things much more on reddit rather than this forum…

You guys just CANT stop complaining for everything. EVERY single thing.

The ranger class is in better spot now than what it ever was since the beginning of the game 3 years ago. MUCH better. It’s a viable and much desirable class in all 3 game modes.

PS: AF generation is not broken. You just don’t like it so you call it broken. Broken was to stand in front of 5 afk people, click #6 and get full AF in the next 3 secs.

PS2: You don’t have to “keep on losing a utility slot”, where did you get that?

PS3: You don’t have to take beastmastery. In fact beastmastery is only mandatory in the PvP cele druid build. Raid druids don’t even touch it.

Greetings ANet’sFanboy.#2860,
1) Reddit gets as much complaining as this forum, check the comments
2) Most of the current complaining on every topic is legit, they failed hard
3) Druid is not 3 years old, and the specialization is not fine
4) AF generation is broken because of its per tick model
5) No out-of-combat AF generation is a pain in WvW/GvG/Scrims
6) Don’t assume that everything is about raids (where AF is fine)
7) I won’t explain the utility & beastmastery part, fast way to generate AF
Have a nice day.

That’s the way I read the dev’s post, feel free to read it differently.

Ah, you’re one of those who think HoT failed hard. Cool, saves me typing

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Ah, you’re one of those who think HoT failed hard. Cool, saves me typing

Reading would have saved you more typing, unless your purpose is to troll

WvW new borderlands, druid’s AF tweaking and “class balance” post-HoT failed pretty hard. I actually enjoyed HoT, the new maps, the story (most of it, the ending felt rushed) and raids look good for the PvE community.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Ah, you’re one of those who think HoT failed hard. Cool, saves me typing

dude if you have nothing useful\smart to say better to keep the mouth shut.

anduriell.6280:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Ah, you’re one of those who think HoT failed hard. Cool, saves me typing

dude if you have nothing useful\smart to say better to keep the mouth shut.

Dito. That guy is even worse in the various anti-HoT threads on the general discussion board. And here again he fails to see the most simple argument before generalising issues in a condescending way.

anduriell.6280:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Ah, you’re one of those who think HoT failed hard. Cool, saves me typing

dude if you have nothing useful\smart to say better to keep the mouth shut.

There’s nothing to say really.

The point of this whiny thread is that OP does not like the way druid works therefore he calls it broken.

Top-end PvE people use druids in raids, and top-end PvP team use druids. Core ranger is probably the best solo class for open world, and druid does fairly well in WvW especially in small groups.
The class is way far from being broken. You just don’t like it, that’s all.

Funny how they don’t mind small nerfing us into oblivion within that 8 week period, then we’ll get one minor buff to something and they’ll say “see , we made our promise!”.

Anet is so funny. Instead of balancing their classes before a league, they are balancing them after it.

Lévis.5489:

Anet is so funny. Instead of balancing their classes before a league, they are balancing them after it.

Colin posted on Reddit earlier that Anet did intend for the HoT release to be the balancing prior to the league.

It just didn’t work out for us because they changed so many things post-HoT release that we really wanted a further balancing.

I’m OK with waiting but I really want them to have a look into AF system. Something not so unforgiving but keeps with their intended function, like allowing us to go into CA form(after it’s 10sec CD) with whatever AF bar we have and then place a multiplier to determine how effective the healing will be depending on the amount of AF bar we had when we went in the CA form. Of course the system will have to remember the static multiplier because the AF bar will be degenerating until we go out of the CA form. Or something like that.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

The class is way far from being broken. You just don’t like it, that’s all.

I’d like you to read the following and think again on that comment.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Ranger-bugs-9/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Druid-Bugs-merged/first

Now please read the front page of this forum. Just look at the titles. Now ask yourself: is the class really “far from broken”?

I have no idea what creates this level of blind devotion, but it needs to stop. It’s definitely not helping anyone to pretend there aren’t grave issues with the class and the constant nerfs the company rather give than fixes.

kevvy.5081:

Lévis.5489:

Anet is so funny. Instead of balancing their classes before a league, they are balancing them after it.

Colin posted on Reddit earlier that Anet did intend for the HoT release to be the balancing prior to the league.

It just didn’t work out for us because they changed so many things post-HoT release that we really wanted a further balancing.

I’m OK with waiting but I really want them to have a look into AF system. Something not so unforgiving but keeps with their intended function, like allowing us to go into CA form(after it’s 10sec CD) with whatever AF bar we have and then place a multiplier to determine how effective the healing will be depending on the amount of AF bar we had when we went in the CA form. Of course the system will have to remember the static multiplier because the AF bar will be degenerating until we go out of the CA form. Or something like that.

Most professions needed at least one more BWE. One BWE for acrobats and druid was not enough.

Lol. There is a ranger build that doesn’t use staff and you can go in AF every 10 secs with 4 secs left on the cele state icon if you leave it pretty early on after using 1 skill. Not going to tell you guys the build because it’s funny watching all of you QQ. AF is fine as it is. On ANY build. It should be your “oh kitten” button. Nothing more. Play the core ranger as intended with the perks of cele state. That’s how you should view it.

Well now that you’ve let that out of the bag, it’ll get nerfed next patch.

I find it funny that you think it will be fixed then.

If they did such a bad job with Ranger that they had to rework it into some kittenty healer that nobody asked for, what makes you think the kittenty healer will fair any better?

Levetty.1279:

I find it funny that you think it will be fixed then.

If they did such a bad job with Ranger that they had to rework it into some kittenty healer that nobody asked for, what makes you think the kittenty healer will fair any better?

Because then forcing such an important roll onto us would make us seem desirable

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

The class is way far from being broken. You just don’t like it, that’s all.

I’d like you to read the following and think again on that comment.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Ranger-bugs-9/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Druid-Bugs-merged/first

Now please read the front page of this forum. Just look at the titles. Now ask yourself: is the class really “far from broken”?

I have no idea what creates this level of blind devotion, but it needs to stop. It’s definitely not helping anyone to pretend there aren’t grave issues with the class and the constant nerfs the company rather give than fixes.

You are so blindfolded with your “ranger hate” that you will ignore anything people will tell you and keep focusing on other things desperately trying to make a point.

The two threads you linked me were created 5 and 2 months ago. Yes rangers do have bugs, but so do most of the classes and so does the content in general. All MMO’s have bugs, especially when they are not even 2 months away from expansions.

“Broken” means that you can’t play the class. Broken means that it’s gamebreaking either in overpowered or underpowered way. Druid was broken when AF was depleting when out of combat for example. Druid was broken when Smokescale was able to do 18k damage in 2 seconds.

The current ranger is far from broken. Rangers are able to compete on the top level in all 3 game modes. End of story, no matter how desperately you try to prove the opposite.

Lettuce.2945:

Lol. There is a ranger build that doesn’t use staff and you can go in AF every 10 secs with 4 secs left on the cele state icon if you leave it pretty early on after using 1 skill. Not going to tell you guys the build because it’s funny watching all of you QQ. AF is fine as it is. On ANY build. It should be your “oh kitten” button. Nothing more. Play the core ranger as intended with the perks of cele state. That’s how you should view it.

Says AF is fine, doesn’t say how because it’s funny to see us QQ. Tells us more about you than the state of AF itself. No it’s not fine. Prove to us otherwise. Until then that’s how I view it, regardless of your superior holier than thou attitude.

It can’t be an oh kitten skill, because for that to happen requires us to have been readily building up AF and they leaving as it is without using it for anything other than emergencies. Is that how you think CA form is meant to be? You’re rather full of it aren’t you

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

The ranger class is in better spot now than what it ever was since the beginning of the game 3 years ago. MUCH better.

.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

You are so blindfolded with your “ranger hate” that you will ignore anything people will tell you and keep focusing on other things desperately trying to make a point.

The two threads you linked me were created 5 and 2 months ago. Yes rangers do have bugs, but so do most of the classes and so does the content in general. All MMO’s have bugs, especially when they are not even 2 months away from expansions.

“Broken” means that you can’t play the class. Broken means that it’s gamebreaking either in overpowered or underpowered way. Druid was broken when AF was depleting when out of combat for example. Druid was broken when Smokescale was able to do 18k damage in 2 seconds.

The current ranger is far from broken. Rangers are able to compete on the top level in all 3 game modes. End of story, no matter how desperately you try to prove the opposite.

You really shouldn’t speak out of turn. Ranger is my only class. Let me repeat that: My. Only. Class.

So I do not ‘hate’ ranger. Nor am I ‘blindfolded’ with my ‘ranger hate’ which is a ridiculous thing to say. That random, shotgun blast of assumption may work on some. But you targeted the wrong poster this time. Just because I play my class, to even award-winning levels, does not mean the class isn’t without glaring bugs, issues, and/or ‘broken’ issues.

This is not the place to argue semantics. You are one voice out of the many on this and other forums that say otherwise. So please excuse us when we take your insult-laden rant less than seriously.

I am not trying to prove anything. But I am saying you are wrong. And we have the continuous nerfs and game-breaking bugs to prove it. And the idea that you think something from five or two months ago, that still aren’t fixed, doesn’t give it a pass because of any amount of time.

Those issues? They are still broken. They aren’t fixed. End of story.

Sorry if you don’t like that fact, but it is a fact. But feel free to continue to tell the community otherwise with anecdotal ramblings.

It’s no worse than the nerfs and increased bugs we suffer with each patch.

kevvy.5081:

Lettuce.2945:

Lol. There is a ranger build that doesn’t use staff and you can go in AF every 10 secs with 4 secs left on the cele state icon if you leave it pretty early on after using 1 skill. Not going to tell you guys the build because it’s funny watching all of you QQ. AF is fine as it is. On ANY build. It should be your “oh kitten” button. Nothing more. Play the core ranger as intended with the perks of cele state. That’s how you should view it.

Says AF is fine, doesn’t say how because it’s funny to see us QQ. Tells us more about you than the state of AF itself. No it’s not fine. Prove to us otherwise. Until then that’s how I view it, regardless of your superior holier than thou attitude.

It can’t be an oh kitten skill, because for that to happen requires us to have been readily building up AF and they leaving as it is without using it for anything other than emergencies. Is that how you think CA form is meant to be? You’re rather full of it aren’t you

Literally a l2p issue and a l2build issue. And your obvious attempt at getting my build is obvious. Figure it out yourself kiddo.

FIXING IS NOT BALANCING!!!!
FIXING IS NOT BALANCING!!!!
FIXING IS NOT BALANCING!!!!
FIXING IS NOT BALANCING!!!!

Druid won’t be fixed for a lot longer than 8 weeks.

More like 8 weeks until base ranger has a chance of getting some fixes.

8 weeks is more than enough time to work on an alt to play until things are changed again.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

This is why the devs post things much more on reddit rather than this forum…

You guys just CANT stop complaining for everything. EVERY single thing.

The ranger class is in better spot now than what it ever was since the beginning of the game 3 years ago. MUCH better. It’s a viable and much desirable class in all 3 game modes.

PS: AF generation is not broken. You just don’t like it so you call it broken. Broken was to stand in front of 5 afk people, click #6 and get full AF in the next 3 secs.

PS2: You don’t have to “keep on losing a utility slot”, where did you get that?

PS3: You don’t have to take beastmastery. In fact beastmastery is only mandatory in the PvP cele druid build. Raid druids don’t even touch it.

I knew from the second I finished reading this that someone’s retort would be “oh you’re just a fanboy.” It’s like you can’t even bring up any reasoning in A-net’s defense without being invalidated through name-calling.

Sad.

Razor.9872:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

This is why the devs post things much more on reddit rather than this forum…

You guys just CANT stop complaining for everything. EVERY single thing.

The ranger class is in better spot now than what it ever was since the beginning of the game 3 years ago. MUCH better. It’s a viable and much desirable class in all 3 game modes.

PS: AF generation is not broken. You just don’t like it so you call it broken. Broken was to stand in front of 5 afk people, click #6 and get full AF in the next 3 secs.

PS2: You don’t have to “keep on losing a utility slot”, where did you get that?

PS3: You don’t have to take beastmastery. In fact beastmastery is only mandatory in the PvP cele druid build. Raid druids don’t even touch it.

I knew from the second I finished reading this that someone’s retort would be “oh you’re just a fanboy.” It’s like you can’t even bring up any reasoning in A-net’s defense without being invalidated through name-calling.

Sad.

What reasoning was brought up beyond “you crybabies are the reason they never talk to us here”?

Ya know, the same fallacious argument that people have used to excuse poor communication for years now.

Druid will never be fixed
Ranger will never be fixed
ANet hates Rangers

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

You are so blindfolded with your “ranger hate” that you will ignore anything people will tell you and keep focusing on other things desperately trying to make a point.

The two threads you linked me were created 5 and 2 months ago. Yes rangers do have bugs, but so do most of the classes and so does the content in general. All MMO’s have bugs, especially when they are not even 2 months away from expansions.

“Broken” means that you can’t play the class. Broken means that it’s gamebreaking either in overpowered or underpowered way. Druid was broken when AF was depleting when out of combat for example. Druid was broken when Smokescale was able to do 18k damage in 2 seconds.

The current ranger is far from broken. Rangers are able to compete on the top level in all 3 game modes. End of story, no matter how desperately you try to prove the opposite.

You really shouldn’t speak out of turn. Ranger is my only class. Let me repeat that: My. Only. Class.

So I do not ‘hate’ ranger. Nor am I ‘blindfolded’ with my ‘ranger hate’ which is a ridiculous thing to say. That random, shotgun blast of assumption may work on some. But you targeted the wrong poster this time. Just because I play my class, to even award-winning levels, does not mean the class isn’t without glaring bugs, issues, and/or ‘broken’ issues.

This is not the place to argue semantics. You are one voice out of the many on this and other forums that say otherwise. So please excuse us when we take your insult-laden rant less than seriously.

I am not trying to prove anything. But I am saying you are wrong. And we have the continuous nerfs and game-breaking bugs to prove it. And the idea that you think something from five or two months ago, that still aren’t fixed, doesn’t give it a pass because of any amount of time.

Those issues? They are still broken. They aren’t fixed. End of story.

Sorry if you don’t like that fact, but it is a fact. But feel free to continue to tell the community otherwise with anecdotal ramblings.

It’s no worse than the nerfs and increased bugs we suffer with each patch.

If you just can’t accept that many of the so called “nerfs” we received were actually balance fixes, then I can’t keep on arguing and wasting my time trying to explain.

There were things that needed fixing like 18k smokescale hits, regen generating AF on full HP targets, minions prioritizing minions for buffs, AF depletion out of combat and so on.

If every change goes as a “nerf” in your mind, then by all means, keep on QQ’ing on doom n’ gloom threads.

PS: I won’t reply to anyone who calls me fanboy because I’m not joining the negativity the forums have and acting like it’s the end of the world on an unplayable expansion. I for one enjoy the class, and statistically speaking, it’s in better spot than it ever was. Many competitive PvP teams have a druid in their group, and almost ALL top raiding groups have a druid as well.

Yes there are things that could use fixing and yes there might have been some un-necessary nerfs (reducing smokescale UA from 7 to 5 attacks), but overall the class is in a very good spot at the moment.

I’m still happy with druid, maybe I am broken ;-(

Earix.5684:

I do want to reinforce – we absolutely plan to do a major quarterly balance updates every 3 months (with a short period after each update to make small tweaks before the next PvP league season begins). The next one is due to arrive after this current PvP season ends.

There are loads of reasons why HoT was considered for us the first big balance update (and the month that followed it) for this PvP League and we couldn’t do any more balance updates before this one, but the reality is none of them really matter since they are just words. What you all care about is action.

As we’ve said before: in 2016 we’ll do one major balance update every 3 months; shortly the balance team will start discussing with you the next big balance update for early 2016 with everyone to gather feedback; and hopefully in the future action will reinforce expectations.

I realize it’s not the immediate answer everyone wants to hear this second, but it’s the realistic one of where we are today – and where we will be when 2016 starts. I’m not entirely sure why this wasn’t clear before now, and I’ll try and get to the bottom of why that messaging wasn’t provided, but that’s exactly where we stand today.

Balance is super important in a world where WvW, Raids, Fractals, PvP, etc. are key components to Gw2’s success. And ensuring we have a new major balance update you can count on every 3 months is one of our keys to accomplishing that goal.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3v0x29/how_do_anet_expect_us_to_take_pvp_seriously_when/cxk2yny

How I read it:
- Druids’ AF generation will remain broken till early 2016
- I will have to keep on losing a utility slot and having beastmastery just to ensure enough AF generation to hit the 10 sec cooldown while in combat till hopefully early 2016
- I will have to keep on asking for a suicide before every sanctum/arena GvG/Scrim round to be able to charge my AF till hopefully early 2016 (because still no OOC AF generation)
- But I should rejoice! Someone is about to gather some precious feedbacks

be careful what you ask for. that balance patch may be a huge nerf instead of a buff…

1 and 2 Reddit and Forums have equal amounts of complaining but I will agree that ranger/druid has at least 3x more complaining than any other class seconded by a close margin the thief/daredevil. (go count the first page complaints on each class forums)

3. Ranger only got viable only after the condition damage revamp and the sinister/viper addition in the silverwastes (2-2.5 years?)

4 and 5 The AF generation is not only that you can’t generate with people at max health. It’s the combination of both max health limitations AND generation on tick (instead of generation per amount healed)

lets take arbitrary numbers. Zerker heals hit for 1000HP and Cleric heals for 5000HP Ally has 10,000HP

The Zerker will be able to throw 10 heals to max out Allies’ health generating 10 ticks of AF generation
The Cleric will be able to throw 2 heals to max out Allies’ health generating only 2 ticks.

so at this point a Zerker with 0 healing power druid will have Celestial avatar available to him/her much more often than a Maxed out healing power Cleric Druid.
(so much for the zerker meta being bad for the game)

6- the balancing was done with PvP in mind (money involved in this now) regardless of the consequences of other game modes. I still see in the LFG “LFM no ranger plz” you don’t see this with any other class. so PvE the druid is not ok relative to other classes.

7- completely random point you stated there.

Justine.6351:

I’m still happy with druid, maybe I am broken ;-(

You and me both in that case.

Think people are just overreacting. I play Ranger mostly for PvE and I don’t feel like I fare any worse than any other class, but that’s probably more a case of everything in PvE being manageable with any class.

Won’t speak about PvP or WvW as I don’t play those modes with a Ranger.

SqualZell.7813:

4 and 5 The AF generation is not only that you can’t generate with people at max health. It’s the combination of both max health limitations AND generation on tick (instead of generation per amount healed)

lets take arbitrary numbers. Zerker heals hit for 1000HP and Cleric heals for 5000HP Ally has 10,000HP

The Zerker will be able to throw 10 heals to max out Allies’ health generating 10 ticks of AF generation
The Cleric will be able to throw 2 heals to max out Allies’ health generating only 2 ticks.

so at this point a Zerker with 0 healing power druid will have Celestial avatar available to him/her much more often than a Maxed out healing power Cleric Druid.
(so much for the zerker meta being bad for the game)

But couldn’t you argue that you don’t need AF if you manage to heal your allies up in just 2 ticks compared to the zerkers 10? I mean the Clerics are 5 times faster healers than the Zerkers, according to these arbitrary numbers, and if they can do that without using AF then the heals they must output with would be quite a boon indeed.

Then again arbitrary numbers are just that, arbitrary. The point you are trying to push is that AF generation is static, and not dynamic. Based on ticks and not amount healed/damage dealt… I think at least, I might be misunderstanding.

I agree that is indeed, strange. I don’t feel like AF generation is particularly slow though, but that is just me. Maybe because I wasn’t running around as a ranger when you could build AF ridiculously fast, if you ever could.

TwiceDead.1963:

Justine.6351:

I’m still happy with druid, maybe I am broken ;-(

You and me both in that case.

Think people are just overreacting. I play Ranger mostly for PvE and I don’t feel like I fare any worse than any other class, but that’s probably more a case of everything in PvE being manageable with any class.

Won’t speak about PvP or WvW as I don’t play those modes with a Ranger.

SqualZell.7813:

4 and 5 The AF generation is not only that you can’t generate with people at max health. It’s the combination of both max health limitations AND generation on tick (instead of generation per amount healed)

lets take arbitrary numbers. Zerker heals hit for 1000HP and Cleric heals for 5000HP Ally has 10,000HP

The Zerker will be able to throw 10 heals to max out Allies’ health generating 10 ticks of AF generation
The Cleric will be able to throw 2 heals to max out Allies’ health generating only 2 ticks.

so at this point a Zerker with 0 healing power druid will have Celestial avatar available to him/her much more often than a Maxed out healing power Cleric Druid.
(so much for the zerker meta being bad for the game)

But couldn’t you argue that you don’t need AF if you manage to heal your allies up in just 2 ticks compared to the zerkers 10? I mean the Clerics are 5 times faster healers than the Zerkers, according to these arbitrary numbers, and if they can do that without using AF then the heals they must output with would be quite a boon indeed.

Then again arbitrary numbers are just that, arbitrary. The point you are trying to push is that AF generation is static, and not dynamic. Based on ticks and not amount healed/damage dealt… I think at least, I might be misunderstanding.

I agree that is indeed, strange. I don’t feel like AF generation is particularly slow though, but that is just me. Maybe because I wasn’t running around as a ranger when you could build AF ridiculously fast, if you ever could.

yeah you understood the concept, the AF generation is backwards, as for the heal bomb druid not needed CA as much due to the crazy amount they can heal out of CA. people always think about weapon 1-5 for heal bombs, but have you looked at the 2nd effect of some 1-5 CA and CA glyphs while in CA?

glyph of alignment: Remove conditions from allies.
glyph of equality: Break stun for allies.
Seed of life: cleanses nearby allies of conditions when it blossoms.
Lunar impact: daze foes
Natural Convergence: Channel your celestial powers, pulsing cripple and slow. Once the channel ends, any foes still within its radius will be trapped by a black hole, immobilizing them.

CA is not only for massive heals (which you can do anyway out of CA as a full cleric)

lots of support and CC in there

Edit: grammar kitten…

Remember when you rangers complaining that warriors asked too much?

lol.

@SqualZell

So Zerkers bring more support-utility to the table since they can use AF more often?

That does sound backwards, you’d think Clerics would be the ones to throw support-utility around as they are pretty much sacrificing all their DPS for the trade-off to be supportive.

Huh…

Justine.6351:

I’m still happy with druid, maybe I am broken ;-(

Same, I’m the happiest I have ever been! Sure there are things that are wonky/bugged/I wish they would do X instead of Y but I’m not going to slit my wrists over it. I also find it funny you can’t say a single positive comment about Hot/Druid without getting labelled as a white knight and stoned to death.

FrouFrou.4958:

Justine.6351:

I’m still happy with druid, maybe I am broken ;-(

Same, I’m the happiest I have ever been! Sure there are things that are wonky/bugged/I wish they would do X instead of Y but I’m not going to slit my wrists over it. I also find it funny you can’t say a single positive comment about Hot/Druid without getting labelled as a white knight and stoned to death.

Being happy doesn’t mean that the specialization is fine.

I’m also happy but not blinded. I mainly play WvW in a 15 or 20 format (GvG or GvZerg) and here, you can see most of the current druid problems:
- Generation being based on ticks instead of value healed + no generation on full HP targets + burst healing skills (required in WvW) = broken generation model
- No out-of-combat natural AF generation + no way to precharge it out-of-combat + respawn with 0 AF (while you get full AF in sPvP?!) = broken resource mechanic

Keep in mind that in WvW (with a 15/20 group) you have to heal fast, for big and as soon as the fight begins. You can’t start the fight with 0 AF. You have to top your teammates’ health fast. I’m still happy because it’s “playable” with workarounds but also unhappy because of how broken the resource mechanic is.

Anyway, adding a 5% per sec AF generation while out of combat would be a step towards something less broken (20 sec to full). Even a 2.5% would be fine (40 sec to full).

Next step would be: transforming the generation model from per tick to per value.

Now that we have to play druid with this poorly thought resource model, at least let’s make it right. Silence or delusion won’t help.

I have been playing healer for 17 years in a lot of different MMOs. It’s the first time I see such a badly built resource system on a healer. They got it right in their previous game, how can they be so wrong in this one?

Earix.5684:

FrouFrou.4958:

Justine.6351:

I’m still happy with druid, maybe I am broken ;-(

Same, I’m the happiest I have ever been! Sure there are things that are wonky/bugged/I wish they would do X instead of Y but I’m not going to slit my wrists over it. I also find it funny you can’t say a single positive comment about Hot/Druid without getting labelled as a white knight and stoned to death.

Being happy doesn’t mean that the specialization is fine.

I’m also happy but not blinded. I mainly play WvW in a 15 or 20 format (GvG or GvZerg) and here, you can see most of the current druid problems:
- Generation being based on ticks instead of value healed + no generation on full HP targets + burst healing skills (required in WvW) = broken generation model
- No out-of-combat natural AF generation + no way to precharge it out-of-combat + respawn with 0 AF (while you get full AF in sPvP?!) = broken resource mechanic

Keep in mind that in WvW (with a 15/20 group) you have to heal fast, for big and as soon as the fight begins. You can’t start the fight with 0 AF. You have to top your teammates’ health fast. I’m still happy because it’s “playable” with workarounds but also unhappy because of how broken the resource mechanic is.

---

Anyway, adding a 5% per sec AF generation while out of combat would be a step towards something less broken (20 sec to full). Even a 2.5% would be fine (40 sec to full).

---

Next step would be: transforming the generation model from per tick to per value.

Now that we have to play druid with this poorly thought resource model, at least let’s make it right. Silence or delusion won’t help.

I have been playing healer for 17 years in a lot of different MMOs. It’s the first time I see such a badly built resource system on a healer. They got it right in their previous game, how can they be so wrong in this one?

they can be so wrong in this one because they created a game with no healer in mind and then added a healer class without changing the healerless core game.

SqualZell.7813:

lets take arbitrary numbers. Zerker heals hit for 1000HP and Cleric heals for 5000HP Ally has 10,000HP

The Zerker will be able to throw 10 heals to max out Allies’ health generating 10 ticks of AF generation
The Cleric will be able to throw 2 heals to max out Allies’ health generating only 2 ticks.

so at this point a Zerker with 0 healing power druid will have Celestial avatar available to him/her much more often than a Maxed out healing power Cleric Druid.
(so much for the zerker meta being bad for the game)

I understand your arguement but I want to show that there are some aspects you are not looking at. The one with more healing power has less CF-uptime that’s right. Be he doesn’t need so many like the berzerker.

Both have full AF and go in CF: berzerker heals not as much with each healing skill, which means he has to stay the full time in CF to heal his whole team up to full health. Cleric just needs to use 2-3 spells to get his team to full health. So he is able to leave CF now, because overhealing doesn’t help in this situation and he has some AF left for next entry.

So it isn’t THAT unfair, I guess…..

Yeah I never really bought the “less healing power = more AFG” argument.

If everyone is full hp so healing them won’t give AF, then why do you even need to get into CAF every 10sec CD.

Kodama.6453:

SqualZell.7813:

lets take arbitrary numbers. Zerker heals hit for 1000HP and Cleric heals for 5000HP Ally has 10,000HP

The Zerker will be able to throw 10 heals to max out Allies’ health generating 10 ticks of AF generation
The Cleric will be able to throw 2 heals to max out Allies’ health generating only 2 ticks.

so at this point a Zerker with 0 healing power druid will have Celestial avatar available to him/her much more often than a Maxed out healing power Cleric Druid.
(so much for the zerker meta being bad for the game)

I understand your arguement but I want to show that there are some aspects you are not looking at. The one with more healing power has less CF-uptime that’s right. Be he doesn’t need so many like the berzerker.

Both have full AF and go in CF: berzerker heals not as much with each healing skill, which means he has to stay the full time in CF to heal his whole team up to full health. Cleric just needs to use 2-3 spells to get his team to full health. So he is able to leave CF now, because overhealing doesn’t help in this situation and he has some AF left for next entry.

So it isn’t THAT unfair, I guess…..

you just proved my point that i mentioned (that you most likely skipped) a few posts up about people just thinking about CA as a giant heal bomb. scroll up and read 2nd to last post (before this one) on this thread explaining in details that CA is not about the healing at this point (since obviously i can do just fine out of CA healing full health in 2 ticks instead of 10) , its about the extra support like condi clear, daze, immobilize, slow.

SqualZell.7813:

Kodama.6453:

SqualZell.7813:

lets take arbitrary numbers. Zerker heals hit for 1000HP and Cleric heals for 5000HP Ally has 10,000HP

The Zerker will be able to throw 10 heals to max out Allies’ health generating 10 ticks of AF generation
The Cleric will be able to throw 2 heals to max out Allies’ health generating only 2 ticks.

so at this point a Zerker with 0 healing power druid will have Celestial avatar available to him/her much more often than a Maxed out healing power Cleric Druid.
(so much for the zerker meta being bad for the game)

I understand your arguement but I want to show that there are some aspects you are not looking at. The one with more healing power has less CF-uptime that’s right. Be he doesn’t need so many like the berzerker.

Both have full AF and go in CF: berzerker heals not as much with each healing skill, which means he has to stay the full time in CF to heal his whole team up to full health. Cleric just needs to use 2-3 spells to get his team to full health. So he is able to leave CF now, because overhealing doesn’t help in this situation and he has some AF left for next entry.

So it isn’t THAT unfair, I guess…..

you just proved my point that i mentioned (that you most likely skipped) a few posts up about people just thinking about CA as a giant heal bomb. scroll up and read 2nd to last post (before this one) on this thread explaining in details that CA is not about the healing at this point (since obviously i can do just fine out of CA healing full health in 2 ticks instead of 10) , its about the extra support like condi clear, daze, immobilize, slow.

I actually read this, thank you. I just think it is a really weak arguement.
The prime function of CA is healing and ever will be healing. Sure, it has some utility too, but we shouldn’t balance everything around some minor effects, which could be useful in some situations. We have to see the whole skills and balance around this and in this case it is. At least I think so.

There is an effect that always has to be kept in your mind: all CA skills have ridiculous low CDs. If a guy with high healing power is able to go in this form every 10 seconds, he gets huge utility AND massive healing from it, because the CDs aren’t just as high like other skills. I think this could lead to some overpowered bunkers.

SqualZell.7813:

Earix.5684:

FrouFrou.4958:

Justine.6351:

I’m still happy with druid, maybe I am broken ;-(

Same, I’m the happiest I have ever been! Sure there are things that are wonky/bugged/I wish they would do X instead of Y but I’m not going to slit my wrists over it. I also find it funny you can’t say a single positive comment about Hot/Druid without getting labelled as a white knight and stoned to death.

Being happy doesn’t mean that the specialization is fine.

I’m also happy but not blinded. I mainly play WvW in a 15 or 20 format (GvG or GvZerg) and here, you can see most of the current druid problems:
- Generation being based on ticks instead of value healed + no generation on full HP targets + burst healing skills (required in WvW) = broken generation model
- No out-of-combat natural AF generation + no way to precharge it out-of-combat + respawn with 0 AF (while you get full AF in sPvP?!) = broken resource mechanic

Keep in mind that in WvW (with a 15/20 group) you have to heal fast, for big and as soon as the fight begins. You can’t start the fight with 0 AF. You have to top your teammates’ health fast. I’m still happy because it’s “playable” with workarounds but also unhappy because of how broken the resource mechanic is.

---

Anyway, adding a 5% per sec AF generation while out of combat would be a step towards something less broken (20 sec to full). Even a 2.5% would be fine (40 sec to full).

---

Next step would be: transforming the generation model from per tick to per value.

Now that we have to play druid with this poorly thought resource model, at least let’s make it right. Silence or delusion won’t help.

I have been playing healer for 17 years in a lot of different MMOs. It’s the first time I see such a badly built resource system on a healer. They got it right in their previous game, how can they be so wrong in this one?

they can be so wrong in this one because they created a game with no healer in mind and then added a healer class without changing the healerless core game.

Actually, both of these statements are true. To Earix’s point in WvW. I’m not sure if it is the format of play that is broke or the Druid and other class mechanics that are. I know you mentioned G vs. G or G vs. Zerg but from a duo vs. X, scouting, or 5 person HAVOC the overall Druid design is wonky. And to me, it all centers around the Druid and what is its roll vs. other classes. Is it a supporting class? If so, then the issue is around generating and sustaining the primary supporting tool which is Astral Force – or it is at least in my opinion.

Which then leads me to Squal’s comment about the Druid healing being added to a game that didn’t have primary roles implemented upon launch. In short – primary healing or tanking when it wasn’t originally intended or designed (note – maybe it was but never really launched or implemented much like that of ascended gear (or so they say, right))?

Personally I have been trying to find a build and armor set that works for the play style I enjoy out in WvW. That is solo, duo, or 5 man HAVOC that scouts, flips camps, and engaged Zergs from the backline. WvW is a CC and stability mess right now and finding a balance without sounding like a whiney winch is proving rather difficult. Trying to CC / Root, healing, and all around providing the “primary” supporting role is a tough nut to crack. In this case I don’t care about damage but rather focus on the party and keeping them alive while “they” finish off the target.

So yeah – I think it is a design and balance issue even though I continue to play and try. 2016 will be interesting because that is the tentative launch of Camelot Unchained. Will be interesting to see what they offer because RvR is what I’m interested in which is what WvW is similar too. If they get half of it done right I can see most, if not all, of the WvW player base moving potentially.

Crapgame.6519:

SqualZell.7813:

Earix.5684:

FrouFrou.4958:

Justine.6351:

I’m still happy with druid, maybe I am broken ;-(

Same, I’m the happiest I have ever been! Sure there are things that are wonky/bugged/I wish they would do X instead of Y but I’m not going to slit my wrists over it. I also find it funny you can’t say a single positive comment about Hot/Druid without getting labelled as a white knight and stoned to death.

Being happy doesn’t mean that the specialization is fine.

I’m also happy but not blinded. I mainly play WvW in a 15 or 20 format (GvG or GvZerg) and here, you can see most of the current druid problems:
- Generation being based on ticks instead of value healed + no generation on full HP targets + burst healing skills (required in WvW) = broken generation model
- No out-of-combat natural AF generation + no way to precharge it out-of-combat + respawn with 0 AF (while you get full AF in sPvP?!) = broken resource mechanic

Keep in mind that in WvW (with a 15/20 group) you have to heal fast, for big and as soon as the fight begins. You can’t start the fight with 0 AF. You have to top your teammates’ health fast. I’m still happy because it’s “playable” with workarounds but also unhappy because of how broken the resource mechanic is.

---

Anyway, adding a 5% per sec AF generation while out of combat would be a step towards something less broken (20 sec to full). Even a 2.5% would be fine (40 sec to full).

---

Next step would be: transforming the generation model from per tick to per value.

Now that we have to play druid with this poorly thought resource model, at least let’s make it right. Silence or delusion won’t help.

I have been playing healer for 17 years in a lot of different MMOs. It’s the first time I see such a badly built resource system on a healer. They got it right in their previous game, how can they be so wrong in this one?

they can be so wrong in this one because they created a game with no healer in mind and then added a healer class without changing the healerless core game.

Actually, both of these statements are true. To Earix’s point in WvW. I’m not sure if it is the format of play that is broke or the Druid and other class mechanics that are. I know you mentioned G vs. G or G vs. Zerg but from a duo vs. X, scouting, or 5 person HAVOC the overall Druid design is wonky. And to me, it all centers around the Druid and what is its roll vs. other classes. Is it a supporting class? If so, then the issue is around generating and sustaining the primary supporting tool which is Astral Force – or it is at least in my opinion.

Which then leads me to Squal’s comment about the Druid healing being added to a game that didn’t have primary roles implemented upon launch. In short – primary healing or tanking when it wasn’t originally intended or designed (note – maybe it was but never really launched or implemented much like that of ascended gear (or so they say, right))?

Personally I have been trying to find a build and armor set that works for the play style I enjoy out in WvW. That is solo, duo, or 5 man HAVOC that scouts, flips camps, and engaged Zergs from the backline. WvW is a CC and stability mess right now and finding a balance without sounding like a whiney winch is proving rather difficult. Trying to CC / Root, healing, and all around providing the “primary” supporting role is a tough nut to crack. In this case I don’t care about damage but rather focus on the party and keeping them alive while “they” finish off the target.

So yeah – I think it is a design and balance issue even though I continue to play and try. 2016 will be interesting because that is the tentative launch of Camelot Unchained. Will be interesting to see what they offer because RvR is what I’m interested in which is what WvW is similar too. If they get half of it done right I can see most, if not all, of the WvW player base moving potentially.

You honestly still can’t figure out a build? Sounds like a build issue to me.

Lettuce.2945:

Crapgame.6519:

SqualZell.7813:

Earix.5684:

FrouFrou.4958:

Justine.6351:

I’m still happy with druid, maybe I am broken ;-(

Same, I’m the happiest I have ever been! Sure there are things that are wonky/bugged/I wish they would do X instead of Y but I’m not going to slit my wrists over it. I also find it funny you can’t say a single positive comment about Hot/Druid without getting labelled as a white knight and stoned to death.

Being happy doesn’t mean that the specialization is fine.

I’m also happy but not blinded. I mainly play WvW in a 15 or 20 format (GvG or GvZerg) and here, you can see most of the current druid problems:
- Generation being based on ticks instead of value healed + no generation on full HP targets + burst healing skills (required in WvW) = broken generation model
- No out-of-combat natural AF generation + no way to precharge it out-of-combat + respawn with 0 AF (while you get full AF in sPvP?!) = broken resource mechanic

Keep in mind that in WvW (with a 15/20 group) you have to heal fast, for big and as soon as the fight begins. You can’t start the fight with 0 AF. You have to top your teammates’ health fast. I’m still happy because it’s “playable” with workarounds but also unhappy because of how broken the resource mechanic is.

---

Anyway, adding a 5% per sec AF generation while out of combat would be a step towards something less broken (20 sec to full). Even a 2.5% would be fine (40 sec to full).

---

Next step would be: transforming the generation model from per tick to per value.

Now that we have to play druid with this poorly thought resource model, at least let’s make it right. Silence or delusion won’t help.

I have been playing healer for 17 years in a lot of different MMOs. It’s the first time I see such a badly built resource system on a healer. They got it right in their previous game, how can they be so wrong in this one?

they can be so wrong in this one because they created a game with no healer in mind and then added a healer class without changing the healerless core game.

Actually, both of these statements are true. To Earix’s point in WvW. I’m not sure if it is the format of play that is broke or the Druid and other class mechanics that are. I know you mentioned G vs. G or G vs. Zerg but from a duo vs. X, scouting, or 5 person HAVOC the overall Druid design is wonky. And to me, it all centers around the Druid and what is its roll vs. other classes. Is it a supporting class? If so, then the issue is around generating and sustaining the primary supporting tool which is Astral Force – or it is at least in my opinion.

Which then leads me to Squal’s comment about the Druid healing being added to a game that didn’t have primary roles implemented upon launch. In short – primary healing or tanking when it wasn’t originally intended or designed (note – maybe it was but never really launched or implemented much like that of ascended gear (or so they say, right))?

Personally I have been trying to find a build and armor set that works for the play style I enjoy out in WvW. That is solo, duo, or 5 man HAVOC that scouts, flips camps, and engaged Zergs from the backline. WvW is a CC and stability mess right now and finding a balance without sounding like a whiney winch is proving rather difficult. Trying to CC / Root, healing, and all around providing the “primary” supporting role is a tough nut to crack. In this case I don’t care about damage but rather focus on the party and keeping them alive while “they” finish off the target.

So yeah – I think it is a design and balance issue even though I continue to play and try. 2016 will be interesting because that is the tentative launch of Camelot Unchained. Will be interesting to see what they offer because RvR is what I’m interested in which is what WvW is similar too. If they get half of it done right I can see most, if not all, of the WvW player base moving potentially.

You honestly still can’t figure out a build? Sounds like a build issue to me.

Comfort build, no. Build/player issue, if that is what you mean, probably. Pre-HOT had two solid sPvP builds I’d run with a single WvW build. Happy. Post HoT PvE it doesn’t matter. Druid WvW, well, not found one yet.

It isn’t the build per say, but trying it out, setting up the armor, runes, sigils, and food with the associated cost. So cost is probably the whiney part. sPvP doesn’t really translate equally but still a good place to test stuff cheap.