Guild Wars 2

I have been healing for my guild raid group on my Tempest running Apothecary for added condis. Today I swapped out my Ele for my Druid and… wow, not great.

This is my review, both are full ascended.

1. Tempests have constant AOE regen and very decent burst heals compared to Druids who lack the AOE of Tempest but have a significant big heal.

2. Tempests (while running Apoth) have very good burning damage while not losing the ability to shout heal, something a Druid cannot match as they’re in staff almost always trying to fill the CF bar just to access their heals.

3. Druid mobility is very good and spotter is incredible but spirits are bugged and if another ranger is providing spotter the need for a Druid is greatly lessened. Tempest is very mobile as well and while they don’t provide the buffs a Druid can, spamming fury, might, protection, regen and swiftness is a breeze.

4. The clunky mechanics and bugs that plague the Druid I could live with if they out healed my Tempest but in my mind it isn’t even close, my Tempest is better. Constant regen uptime and big (enough) heals, (by the way test out arcane brilliance on a water field when you’ve got over +1200 healing it’s ridiculously big) make the Tempest My choice of healer.

It’s a shame Druid is so gated behind CF as I would be running around in CA all the time. Since it’s gated so heavily I’ll run on a healing class that can heal all the time. I’m not dumping my ranger, I’ll run Condi but I’m out of the Druid game for good. Not a very ELITE spec.

Aidenwolf.5964:

I have been healing for my guild raid group on my Tempest running Apothecary for added condis. Today I swapped out my Ele for my Druid and… wow, not great.

This is my review, both are full ascended.

1. Tempests have constant AOE regen and very decent burst heals compared to Druids who lack the AOE of Tempest but have a significant big heal.

2. Tempests (while running Apoth) have very good burning damage while not losing the ability to shout heal, something a Druid cannot match as they’re in staff almost always trying to fill the CF bar just to access their heals.

3. Druid mobility is very good and spotter is incredible but spirits are bugged and if another ranger is providing spotter the need for a Druid is greatly lessened. Tempest is very mobile as well and while they don’t provide the buffs a Druid can, spamming fury, might, protection, regen and swiftness is a breeze.

4. The clunky mechanics and bugs that plague the Druid I could live with if they out healed my Tempest but in my mind it isn’t even close, my Tempest is better. Constant regen uptime and big (enough) heals, (by the way test out arcane brilliance on a water field when you’ve got over +1200 healing it’s ridiculously big) make the Tempest My choice of healer.

It’s a shame Druid is so gated behind CF as I would be running around in CA all the time. Since it’s gated so heavily I’ll run on a healing class that can heal all the time. I’m not dumping my ranger, I’ll run Condi but I’m out of the Druid game for good. Not a very ELITE spec.

…
Honestly, you’re quite right. While Druid healing does have its merits in a pinch, other builds like Tempest or Ventari Revs can sustain just as easily and not sacrifice th.eir own damage.

Beyond Spotter/(broken) Spirits, though…I think Grace of the Land and Empowerment Glyph are also pretty good dealbreakers for carrying a Druid.

This thread was a good reminder to get those hero points on my ele. Can’t wait to try tempest out!

yeah i saw that with my ventari in exos. the constant healing the the tablet provides plus the burst healing every 2 seconds actually can output in average the burst healing of the druid. plus the damage from the rev is pretty satisfying.

Euthymias.7984:

Aidenwolf.5964:

I have been healing for my guild raid group on my Tempest running Apothecary for added condis. Today I swapped out my Ele for my Druid and… wow, not great.

This is my review, both are full ascended.

1. Tempests have constant AOE regen and very decent burst heals compared to Druids who lack the AOE of Tempest but have a significant big heal.

2. Tempests (while running Apoth) have very good burning damage while not losing the ability to shout heal, something a Druid cannot match as they’re in staff almost always trying to fill the CF bar just to access their heals.

3. Druid mobility is very good and spotter is incredible but spirits are bugged and if another ranger is providing spotter the need for a Druid is greatly lessened. Tempest is very mobile as well and while they don’t provide the buffs a Druid can, spamming fury, might, protection, regen and swiftness is a breeze.

4. The clunky mechanics and bugs that plague the Druid I could live with if they out healed my Tempest but in my mind it isn’t even close, my Tempest is better. Constant regen uptime and big (enough) heals, (by the way test out arcane brilliance on a water field when you’ve got over +1200 healing it’s ridiculously big) make the Tempest My choice of healer.

It’s a shame Druid is so gated behind CF as I would be running around in CA all the time. Since it’s gated so heavily I’ll run on a healing class that can heal all the time. I’m not dumping my ranger, I’ll run Condi but I’m out of the Druid game for good. Not a very ELITE spec.

…
Honestly, you’re quite right. While Druid healing does have its merits in a pinch, other builds like Tempest or Ventari Revs can sustain just as easily and not sacrifice th.eir own damage.

Beyond Spotter/(broken) Spirits, though…I think Grace of the Land and Empowerment Glyph are also pretty good dealbreakers for carrying a Druid.

Empowerment like most things Druid feels like another button to push every 20 secs to give the illusion of active combat. The design philosophy of the specialization seems to be in line with the e-sports focus of Anet, a button masher to mimic other active playstlye games.

Ventari I’ve only used in PvP but it seems very promising as a raid healer and like the Tempest it allows the healer to contribute damage while healing. I think they can fix Druid but I don’t believe they care to.

My medium set is being converted back to Condi.

Swagger.1459:

This thread was a good reminder to get those hero points on my ele. Can’t wait to try tempest out!

I was sceptical of the Tempest but no longer, it’s good.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Swagger.1459:

This thread was a good reminder to get those hero points on my ele. Can’t wait to try tempest out!

I was sceptical of the Tempest but no longer, it’s good.

I haven’t really played my ele (tomes and craft leveling) so I’m really just running blind to get those HPs and trying to survive. It was essentially my extra bank space with good intentions to play, but I think now is the perfect time to goof around on it.

Once I unlock the elite fully I’ll test out a “focused on healing” build and see how much I can pump out of it. Should be fun.

Op is wrong.

Druid > Tempest > Ventari

Actually how much damage buff (average over time) do Glyph of Empowerment, Spotter, Frost Spirit and Grace of the Land combined?

It seems that one of the “Druid is the best healer” arguments is that it provides the above buffs. I am interested to see how much a percentage an increase do all those buffs bring…

Please, is someone good with math?

Oh My God.8423:

Actually how much damage buff (average over time) do Glyph of Empowerment, Spotter, Frost Spirit and Grace of the Land combined?

It seems that one of the “Druid is the best healer” arguments is that it provides the above buffs. I am interested to see how much a percentage an increase do all those buffs bring…

Please, is someone good with math?

I’m not that good at calculating, so maybe someone else will help. From what I can tell, though:

Frost Spirit and Glyph are both 10% bonuses to outgoing damage for about 6sec (20% party-wide boost)

GotL is an 8% partywide boost (if you’re able to reach everyone with Lunar Impact or Tides.)

Glyph has to be used right before entering CA to heal and trigger GotL of course, but if a pulse from Frost Spirit works in tandem with it, then its about 4~5-ish seconds of 28% raw damage boosting (with a little extra for outgoing conditions) before factoring Might and other boons or Vul and other conditions.
…
Only issue now is that Frost Spirit isn’t working right to make that sort of boost consistent, and depending on the situation, you may not be able to boost everyone that way (be it because you’re made to scatter or any difficulties around using CA depending on the encounter.

I mean, pretty much anyone that’s been sticking this out are the hardcore ranger/druid fans, there’s nothing special let alone useful about this class that another one doesn’t do better.

Knighthonor.4061:

Op is wrong.

Druid > Tempest > Ventari

Thoughtful analysis. Tempest is much better than you know, party wide healing is smooth and burst heals aren’t gated like Druid. I healed Gor on my Druid and spent the encounter fighting the UI. Just because you’ve seen vids of others running Druid it doesn’t make that the way to go. You’re ignoring the condition damage an apothecary elemantalist is putting out which is on demand and considerable but each raid composition is different.

A Condi ranger instead of a Druid would be my preference as they provide significant damage and utility.

Euthymias.7984:

Oh My God.8423:

Actually how much damage buff (average over time) do Glyph of Empowerment, Spotter, Frost Spirit and Grace of the Land combined?

It seems that one of the “Druid is the best healer” arguments is that it provides the above buffs. I am interested to see how much a percentage an increase do all those buffs bring…

Please, is someone good with math?

I’m not that good at calculating, so maybe someone else will help. From what I can tell, though:

Frost Spirit and Glyph are both 10% bonuses to outgoing damage for about 6sec (20% party-wide boost)

GotL is an 8% partywide boost (if you’re able to reach everyone with Lunar Impact or Tides.)

Glyph has to be used right before entering CA to heal and trigger GotL of course, but if a pulse from Frost Spirit works in tandem with it, then its about 4~5-ish seconds of 28% raw damage boosting (with a little extra for outgoing conditions) before factoring Might and other boons or Vul and other conditions.
…
Only issue now is that Frost Spirit isn’t working right to make that sort of boost consistent, and depending on the situation, you may not be able to boost everyone that way (be it because you’re made to scatter or any difficulties around using CA depending on the encounter.

The Druid DPS boosts to the party are good but none of them are better than what the Ranger already had. Spotter and spirits are still the best and the Druid ones aren’t raid wide or always on like Spotter.

Aidenwolf.5964:

The Druid DPS boosts to the party are good but none of them are better than what the Ranger already had. Spotter and spirits are still the best and the Druid ones aren’t raid wide or always on like Spotter.

:shrug: I never said that they were. Its just additional spike damage potential to add on to what we have (spirits and spotter) for those close by to go with our burst healing.

I still think Tempest/Ventari are better in the long run overall because they can have their heals on demand without having to deal with AF’s nonsensical bar of entry or even cutting out their own damage while playing the healing role.

10% – 15% increase in damage averaging over time?

But you don’t want to use Glyph of Empowerment on boss fight: you save it to boost healing output when in CA form.

You probably won’t take all Glyphs: you would have one or two Spirits instead.

So by my rough calculation, and some instinct, about 10% – 15% increase averaging over time.

Combining that with Druid’s healing capabilities, does it still head-and-shoulder better than the other two, which can provide steadier (and might be more) Protection, Might and Fury, and higher personal DPS?

Druid does have it merits; don’t get me wrong. But the more I think about it, I think the class it best serve as a part-time healer and a full-time dps buffer instead, or a classic Spirit-Spotter with some Glyphs and CA form for one of those “brace for impact” moment.

Euthymias.7984:

Aidenwolf.5964:

The Druid DPS boosts to the party are good but none of them are better than what the Ranger already had. Spotter and spirits are still the best and the Druid ones aren’t raid wide or always on like Spotter.

:shrug: I never said that they were. Its just additional spike damage potential to add on to what we have (spirits and spotter) for those close by to go with our burst healing.

I still think Tempest/Ventari are better in the long run overall because they can have their heals on demand without having to deal with AF’s nonsensical bar of entry or even cutting out their own damage while playing the healing role.

I was only clarifying the buffs the Druid / Rangers provide.

Oh My God.8423:

10% – 15% increase in damage averaging over time?

But you don’t want to use Glyph of Empowerment on boss fight: you save it to boost healing output when in CA form.

You probably won’t take all Glyphs: you would have one or two Spirits instead.

So by my rough calculation, and some instinct, about 10% – 15% increase averaging over time.

Combining that with Druid’s healing capabilities, does it still head-and-shoulder better than the other two, which can provide steadier (and might be more) Protection, Might and Fury, and higher personal DPS?

Spotter is a party buff and one of the very best.

The Druid (not Ranger) buffs are short duration and not raid wide so extrapolating a set dps boost is guess work at best but let’s agree on 10% for 6 secs every 20 for half the raid (only affects 5).

The personal damage of the Druid doesn’t touch Ventari and certainly not Apothecary Tempest. As for fury might swiftness protection those are hands down the domain of the Tempest.

I did use a modified Druid build tonight that I prefered to the standard build and the regen spamming of shouts on top of the Druid heals felt closer to my Tempest output. I think once more groups use a Tempest healer the community will side with my assertion that Druids aren’t perfect healers (yet).

I don’t know what you all are smoking but I love my Druid.

Oh My God.8423:

Please, is someone good with math?

Well, I did it countless times, why not do it again.

Frost Spirit = 7,5% Direct
Sun Spirit = Roughly ~2,3% (~500K from the whole fight, usually more since it pulses to different people according to positioning, not the same 5 people)
Spotter = 8% Direct, some minor to condis too (not much. It’s below 1%)
Glyph of Empowerment = 3,75% (5% with Grace of the Land synergy)
Grace of the Land = 15% straight DPS (peak), 10% overall, can be potentially maximized to 18% overall if you manage to keep distributing the buff to 9 people

Statistically the DPS a CAF druid provides is around 30% (for 5 targets; practically 15% raid DPS).
The ideal mathematical result is ~38,5% (approximated to 2 Condi engineers for less benefits from Raw numbers and more benefits from Sun Spirit). This number is achievable but regular people wouldn’t bother maximizing it.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Knighthonor.4061:

Op is wrong.

Druid > Tempest > Ventari

Thoughtful analysis. Tempest is much better than you know, party wide healing is smooth and burst heals aren’t gated like Druid. I healed Gor on my Druid and spent the encounter fighting the UI. Just because you’ve seen vids of others running Druid it doesn’t make that the way to go. You’re ignoring the condition damage an apothecary elemantalist is putting out which is on demand and considerable but each raid composition is different.

A Condi ranger instead of a Druid would be my preference as they provide significant damage and utility.

Condition ranger’s condition dps loses condition engi and berserker (warrior) longbow f1 spam. In the video against 2nd raid boss, 3 cond warrior can easily stack up to 35 stacks of burning almost permanently.

For condition ranger, you need boss to stay in flame trap as long as possible, which in raid, can sometimes be hard to achieved.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Oh My God.8423:

10% – 15% increase in damage averaging over time?

But you don’t want to use Glyph of Empowerment on boss fight: you save it to boost healing output when in CA form.

You probably won’t take all Glyphs: you would have one or two Spirits instead.

So by my rough calculation, and some instinct, about 10% – 15% increase averaging over time.

Combining that with Druid’s healing capabilities, does it still head-and-shoulder better than the other two, which can provide steadier (and might be more) Protection, Might and Fury, and higher personal DPS?

Spotter is a party buff and one of the very best.

The Druid (not Ranger) buffs are short duration and not raid wide so extrapolating a set dps boost is guess work at best but let’s agree on 10% for 6 secs every 20 for half the raid (only affects 5).

The personal damage of the Druid doesn’t touch Ventari and certainly not Apothecary Tempest. As for fury might swiftness protection those are hands down the domain of the Tempest.

I did use a modified Druid build tonight that I prefered to the standard build and the regen spamming of shouts on top of the Druid heals felt closer to my Tempest output. I think once more groups use a Tempest healer the community will side with my assertion that Druids aren’t perfect healers (yet).

Spotter is probably one of the most unneeded buff among the 3 types of buffing (power, precision, ferocity from 3 different classes), because the “main dps” (Hearld x 3) can EASILY exceed way over 100% crit chance with just utility item and discipline banner. The precision from spotter would be a total waste because it doesn’t benefit the main dps, nor does it benefit the other 3 condition classes.

Aomine.5012:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Oh My God.8423:

10% – 15% increase in damage averaging over time?

But you don’t want to use Glyph of Empowerment on boss fight: you save it to boost healing output when in CA form.

You probably won’t take all Glyphs: you would have one or two Spirits instead.

So by my rough calculation, and some instinct, about 10% – 15% increase averaging over time.

Combining that with Druid’s healing capabilities, does it still head-and-shoulder better than the other two, which can provide steadier (and might be more) Protection, Might and Fury, and higher personal DPS?

Spotter is a party buff and one of the very best.

The Druid (not Ranger) buffs are short duration and not raid wide so extrapolating a set dps boost is guess work at best but let’s agree on 10% for 6 secs every 20 for half the raid (only affects 5).

The personal damage of the Druid doesn’t touch Ventari and certainly not Apothecary Tempest. As for fury might swiftness protection those are hands down the domain of the Tempest.

I did use a modified Druid build tonight that I prefered to the standard build and the regen spamming of shouts on top of the Druid heals felt closer to my Tempest output. I think once more groups use a Tempest healer the community will side with my assertion that Druids aren’t perfect healers (yet).

Spotter is probably one of the most unneeded buff among the 3 types of buffing (power, precision, ferocity from 3 different classes), because the “main dps” (Hearld x 3) can EASILY exceed way over 100% crit chance with just utility item and discipline banner. The precision from spotter would be a total waste because it doesn’t benefit the main dps, nor doesn’t it benefit the other 3 condition classes.

Most builds won’t be crit capped or even reach 100% with fury. Even Condi builds benefit from crits and aside from spotter your choice of (buggy) spirits to suit the comp should be welcomed.

Aomine.5012:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Knighthonor.4061:

Op is wrong.

Druid > Tempest > Ventari

Thoughtful analysis. Tempest is much better than you know, party wide healing is smooth and burst heals aren’t gated like Druid. I healed Gor on my Druid and spent the encounter fighting the UI. Just because you’ve seen vids of others running Druid it doesn’t make that the way to go. You’re ignoring the condition damage an apothecary elemantalist is putting out which is on demand and considerable but each raid composition is different.

A Condi ranger instead of a Druid would be my preference as they provide significant damage and utility.

Condition ranger’s condition dps loses condition engi and berserker (warrior) longbow f1 spam. In the video against 2nd raid boss, 3 cond warrior can easily stack up to 35 stacks of burning almost permanently.

For condition ranger, you need boss to stay in flame trap as long as possible, which in raid, can sometimes be hard to achieved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKMxwsaSiE8

Those burns would go up with a ranger in there. We beat Vale with 3 necro 1 Dragon Hunter 1 warrior 1 Tempest (me on heals) 1 engi 1 chrono (tank) and 2 revs. Ideal comp? Clearly not, but what works for some isn’t the only way to do it.

Most people even my own guild see these vids and think “that’s how you do it” until I swap out of my Druid onto my Tempest and we see how it works better for our comp.

I would take my engi over my burn warrior any day, and I wouldn’t say no to a Condi ranger ever, but that’s me.

I believe a DPS druid build(marks,skirm,druid) is the way to go as a secondary healer. For a main permanent healing role with healing stats, Tempest or Revenant does the job better imo.

First reason why main healing role with healing stats like cleric or w/e doesn’t fit druid, is because spike healing =/= reliable healing. I tend to stick with the #3, #4, #3 rotation in CA form using quickdraw trait, leave CA form and DPS for 10sec while building up AF. Most of you will agree that trying to use #1 is just a waste of time, rarely hits, is too small and just downright painful to use.

Anything can happen in those 10sec and my teammates has needed healing in that time frame a lot of the time especially in 2nd phase after the first split. I just couldn’t do anything about it, except beam my staff around them and combo #5 and #3 with staff. It wasn’t very ideally acceptable in any perceivable manner. Healing roles needs to heal whenever. Druid is hands down the best for burst, but on going access to healing at any split moment is what’s going to win the battle, not a healing mode for brief few sec then DPS for 10sec. This sort of healer role that Druid is, is best fit for emergency/secondary healer imo.

Secondly this means that if I’m clerics then I’m wasting a majority of my time while outside of CA form. I’m not healing good or doing DPS well at all.

Then there’s the whole issue that having a full healing stat build is detrimental to the access of CA form since we need to heal as much as we can to build AF.

So a DPS spec’d druid is the way to go as a DPS role and a secondary oh kitten emergency healer that compliments the role of Tempest or Revenant healer imo.

A Condi druid is good too imo, just camp A/T, pump out regens with WHaO with shout traited and use CA form when u need to.

Overall point I want to make is that CA form is not 100% reliable as a main healing role – it’s viable sure, but it is easily outclassed by Tempest or Revenant in terms of reliability. I think it’s a great secondary role though that can perform it’s classic DPS role or Condi role very well.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Aomine.5012:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Knighthonor.4061:

Op is wrong.

Druid > Tempest > Ventari

Thoughtful analysis. Tempest is much better than you know, party wide healing is smooth and burst heals aren’t gated like Druid. I healed Gor on my Druid and spent the encounter fighting the UI. Just because you’ve seen vids of others running Druid it doesn’t make that the way to go. You’re ignoring the condition damage an apothecary elemantalist is putting out which is on demand and considerable but each raid composition is different.

A Condi ranger instead of a Druid would be my preference as they provide significant damage and utility.

Condition ranger’s condition dps loses condition engi and berserker (warrior) longbow f1 spam. In the video against 2nd raid boss, 3 cond warrior can easily stack up to 35 stacks of burning almost permanently.

For condition ranger, you need boss to stay in flame trap as long as possible, which in raid, can sometimes be hard to achieved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKMxwsaSiE8

Those burns would go up with a ranger in there. We beat Vale with 3 necro 1 Dragon Hunter 1 warrior 1 Tempest (me on heals) 1 engi 1 chrono (tank) and 2 revs. Ideal comp? Clearly not, but what works for some isn’t the only way to do it.

Most people even my own guild see these vids and think “that’s how you do it” until I swap out of my Druid onto my Tempest and we see how it works better for our comp.

I would take my engi over my burn warrior any day, and I wouldn’t say no to a Condi ranger ever, but that’s me.

I think you have this bias that warrior is bad condition because of old days. Think out-side of box like you see Tempest now.

Things have change, and if you do some math, LB F1 actually do a CRAP LOAD of condition damage because berserker’s trait just benefit burning way too well, whereas there’s nothing in ranger that benefit their burning duration/damage.

There’s reason why you see more berserkers these days and less rangers.

Aomine.5012:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Aomine.5012:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Knighthonor.4061:

Op is wrong.

Druid > Tempest > Ventari

Thoughtful analysis. Tempest is much better than you know, party wide healing is smooth and burst heals aren’t gated like Druid. I healed Gor on my Druid and spent the encounter fighting the UI. Just because you’ve seen vids of others running Druid it doesn’t make that the way to go. You’re ignoring the condition damage an apothecary elemantalist is putting out which is on demand and considerable but each raid composition is different.

A Condi ranger instead of a Druid would be my preference as they provide significant damage and utility.

Condition ranger’s condition dps loses condition engi and berserker (warrior) longbow f1 spam. In the video against 2nd raid boss, 3 cond warrior can easily stack up to 35 stacks of burning almost permanently.

For condition ranger, you need boss to stay in flame trap as long as possible, which in raid, can sometimes be hard to achieved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKMxwsaSiE8

Those burns would go up with a ranger in there. We beat Vale with 3 necro 1 Dragon Hunter 1 warrior 1 Tempest (me on heals) 1 engi 1 chrono (tank) and 2 revs. Ideal comp? Clearly not, but what works for some isn’t the only way to do it.

Most people even my own guild see these vids and think “that’s how you do it” until I swap out of my Druid onto my Tempest and we see how it works better for our comp.

I would take my engi over my burn warrior any day, and I wouldn’t say no to a Condi ranger ever, but that’s me.

I think you have this bias that warrior is bad condition because of old days. Think out-side of box like you see Tempest now.

Things have change, and if you do some math, LB F1 actually do a CRAP LOAD of condition damage because berserker’s trait just benefit burning way too well, whereas there’s nothing in ranger that benefit their burning duration/damage.

There’s reason why you see more berserkers these days and less rangers.

I have no bias against Condi warriors at all I’ve been running Apothecary warrior in WvW since forever. Sun Spirit adds burns to the party and even though it priortizes pets and minions the stacks add up.

My ideal burn comp would be an engi necro warrior and ranger. Why a necro? Epidemic, especially on Gor. Rangers do provide tools for any encounter warriors are 1 spam easy which is why they’re used.

kevvy.5081:

I believe a DPS druid build(marks,skirm,druid) is the way to go as a secondary healer. For a main permanent healing role with healing stats, Tempest or Revenant does the job better imo.

First reason why main healing role with healing stats like cleric or w/e doesn’t fit druid, is because spike healing =/= reliable healing. I tend to stick with the #3, #4, #3 rotation in CA form using quickdraw trait, leave CA form and DPS for 10sec while building up AF. Most of you will agree that trying to use #1 is just a waste of time, rarely hits, is too small and just downright painful to use.

Anything can happen in those 10sec and my teammates has needed healing in that time frame a lot of the time especially in 2nd phase after the first split. I just couldn’t do anything about it, except beam my staff around them and combo #5 and #3 with staff. It wasn’t very ideally acceptable in any perceivable manner. Healing roles needs to heal whenever. Druid is hands down the best for burst, but on going access to healing at any split moment is what’s going to win the battle, not a healing mode for brief few sec then DPS for 10sec. This sort of healer role that Druid is, is best fit for emergency/secondary healer imo.

Secondly this means that if I’m clerics then I’m wasting a majority of my time while outside of CA form. I’m not healing good or doing DPS well at all.

Then there’s the whole issue that having a full healing stat build is detrimental to the access of CA form since we need to heal as much as we can to build AF.

So a DPS spec’d druid is the way to go as a DPS role and a secondary oh kitten emergency healer that compliments the role of Tempest or Revenant healer imo.

A Condi druid is good too imo, just camp A/T, pump out regens with WHaO with shout traited and use CA form when u need to.

Overall point I want to make is that CA form is not 100% reliable as a main healing role – it’s viable sure, but it is easily outclassed by Tempest or Revenant in terms of reliability. I think it’s a great secondary role though that can perform it’s classic DPS role or Condi role very well.

Your thoughts on Druid heals are in line with what I’ve encountered. Raid healing isn’t about who does the biggest heal its about being able to keep your raid members out of downed, they make a mistake, you need to be ready. Tempest heals in particular can drop auras at will I always have a dodge ready for emergencies. Tempest allows me to top off health bars and hop into fire to add burns without losing access to auras (regen) then swap into water for a very nice AOE heal.

I’m running around HoT in pvt gear and celestial trinkets grabbing HP. I have water as a trait line and use staff, and it’s much more enjoyable doing “healing” for groups on HP. I’m obviously not doing any serious gameplay, but I can already see a better functioning “healer”. Can’t wait to spec as a dedicated “healer” and see the full potential with tempest in there too.

I have little exp with a tempest but i am temptested to try one out. What I wonder though can the Tempest both heal and tank gorseval? Since currently a druid is nice for both roles in this fight.
The other part i wonder is does Gotl, sun spirit, frost spirit, empowerment glyph, in general provide enough raid damage/upkeep that this surpasses the individual damage difference a tempest does over a druid (staff AA + pet)?

What does the tempest heal build look like ?

Aomine.5012:

Spotter is probably one of the most unneeded buff among the 3 types of buffing (power, precision, ferocity from 3 different classes), because the “main dps” (Hearld x 3) can EASILY exceed way over 100% crit chance with just utility item and discipline banner. The precision from spotter would be a total waste because it doesn’t benefit the main dps, nor does it benefit the other 3 condition classes.

Except you don’t run precision utility and food with a ranger in you’re (squad)party, that has been common practice ever since spotter became relevant. Things like spicy butternut squash soup and sharpening stones are there for a reason.

Ktk.5107:

What does the tempest heal build look like ?

This is what I run. The trinkets change depending on the toughness of the tank but it’s also fully capable of heal tanking.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWn0XC9XiNYCWYCcYilSAz9smWnrEJgKQAooKuBGBA-TRxGABupDAgHAwiq/k2+DkfBAAA-e

Aidenwolf.5964:

Ktk.5107:

What does the tempest heal build look like ?

This is what I run. The trinkets change depending on the toughness of the tank but it’s also fully capable of heal tanking.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWn0XC9XiNYCWYCcYilSAz9smWnrEJgKQAooKuBGBA-TRxGABupDAgHAwiq/k2+DkfBAAA-e

Is the condi dmg really good here ? You have very little condis application. Wouldn’t zealot be more powerful ?

Ktk.5107:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Ktk.5107:

What does the tempest heal build look like ?

This is what I run. The trinkets change depending on the toughness of the tank but it’s also fully capable of heal tanking.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWn0XC9XiNYCWYCcYilSAz9smWnrEJgKQAooKuBGBA-TRxGABupDAgHAwiq/k2+DkfBAAA-e

Is the condi dmg really good here ? You have very little condis application. Wouldn’t zealot be more powerful ?

Healing gear loses ferocity to add healing so even with higher crit you’re at baseline. By running Apoth I can add near full power condition damage with burns though without duration they are big. Fire overload is a whirl finisher on a fire field which also creates an aura which heals huge. I cycle water until everyone’s topped off them earth (protection) air (swiftness) then fire (might) and lay down my fire field drop a flame Aura (feel the burn) which AOE heals and adds burns, overload, then back to water (big heal on attunement).

If I need more heals I dodge into allies for arcana.

I think the lack of ferocity hurt less than the lack of condi dura.

Ktk.5107:

I think the lack of ferocity hurt less than the lack of condi dura.

I encourage thinking.

Earix.5684:

Staff might be the worst weapon for that kind of build. You should try dagger/warhorn if you wanna run condi / heal / boon share

You would be correct if it wasn’t for water 1 and if I wasn’t main healing.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Earix.5684:

Staff might be the worst weapon for that kind of build. You should try dagger/warhorn if you wanna run condi / heal / boon share ;)

You would be correct if it wasn’t for water 1 and if I wasn’t main healing.

Deleted my post cause it’s not an elementalist forum.

Anyway, if you only heal, staff is better. If you condi / heal / boon share, dagger/warhorn is waaay better with your gear. I guess it depends on how good your raid is at avoiding obvious damage ;)

Back to the topic, druid needs a lot of work. I hope they will listen and fix their mistakes.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Ktk.5107:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Ktk.5107:

What does the tempest heal build look like ?

This is what I run. The trinkets change depending on the toughness of the tank but it’s also fully capable of heal tanking.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWn0XC9XiNYCWYCcYilSAz9smWnrEJgKQAooKuBGBA-TRxGABupDAgHAwiq/k2+DkfBAAA-e

Is the condi dmg really good here ? You have very little condis application. Wouldn’t zealot be more powerful ?

Healing gear loses ferocity to add healing so even with higher crit you’re at baseline. By running Apoth I can add near full power condition damage with burns though without duration they are big. Fire overload is a whirl finisher on a fire field which also creates an aura which heals huge. I cycle water until everyone’s topped off them earth (protection) air (swiftness) then fire (might) and lay down my fire field drop a flame Aura (feel the burn) which AOE heals and adds burns, overload, then back to water (big heal on attunement).

If I need more heals I dodge into allies for arcana.

Just from messing around yesterday, and not taking things seriously while I get my hero points, I can safely say I have had 100x more fun playing a ele healer build. By far, it will be a superior healer and smoother to play in any game mode.

As of right now I will never use my Druid for team healer at all, and refrain from small teams related content while I have Druid in my build. If I run team stuff, I’m going dps and taking out the Druid traitline because I refuse to be expected to heal on it. I’ll run open world pve or through wvw goofing off with Druid on, but that will be my “selfish heal myself” build because that’s what it does best.

OP, you do realize that you have zero actual arguments about Tempest being better do you? All that we get from your post is that you just dislike the AF system and therefore trying to convince yourself that Druid healer is not worth it.

Aidenwolf.5964:

1. Tempests have constant AOE regen and very decent burst heals compared to Druids who lack the AOE of Tempest but have a significant big heal.

This says nothing at all. Regen is not hard to come by in a raid of 10 and also Astral Wisp counts as a contant low-ish heal as well.

Aidenwolf.5964:

2. Tempests (while running Apoth) have very good burning damage while not losing the ability to shout heal, something a Druid cannot match as they’re in staff almost always trying to fill the CF bar just to access their heals.

Druid in Zealot with double cats and S/A as a secondary set also has decent damage. An experienced player will never have AF problems while dancing between sword/staff. Even if a healer is not wanted for its damage…

Aidenwolf.5964:

3. Druid mobility is very good and spotter is incredible but spirits are bugged and if another ranger is providing spotter the need for a Druid is greatly lessened. Tempest is very mobile as well and while they don’t provide the buffs a Druid can, spamming fury, might, protection, regen and swiftness is a breeze.

Yeah thank god for fury, might, protection, regen and swiftness! If not for a tempest healer we would have never seen these buffs! Totally outperform Glyph of Empowerment, Sun Spirit, Frost Spirit, Nature Spirit and Grace of the Land!
…

Aidenwolf.5964:

4. The clunky mechanics and bugs that plague the Druid I could live with if they out healed my Tempest but in my mind it isn’t even close, my Tempest is better. Constant regen uptime and big (enough) heals, (by the way test out arcane brilliance on a water field when you’ve got over +1200 healing it’s ridiculously big) make the Tempest My choice of healer.

This game is not about HPS. All healing builds will never go pure healing because you can keep the whole group alive while providing other useful stuff like a bit of DPS and buffs.

Well, I’m not a big numbers person anymore, but I will say this in response… Healing ele with water, tempest and staff was a hell of a lot more fun and smooth to play than Druid.

I just did the dragon stand meta in pvt gear and celestial trinkets and kept a crap ton of green numbers floating… It’s funny how much I complained about aiming with CA form, but I didn’t have that same feeling. I felt relaxed, had fun, paid attention to the screen action more not my ability bar, was dropping damage left and right while smoothly healing in the mix… I was tossing out my staff aoe heals, ticking regen, splash heals from auto… and kept jumping in and spamming all the heal stuff I had specced…. Got credit, made a difference and actually enjoyed it so much that I’ll get some gear tomorrow and take an ele healing build more seriously.

It’s kinda funny because I disliked my ele when I made it, but now it’s enjoyable. It’s the ranged and pbao heal design that I wanted for Druid without any of the “clunkiness”, inconsistent healing and limiting AF mechanics…

Ele healing design is far better built with the user and combat gameplay in mind. I don’t care what ranger Druid can do differently or better, it’s just simply not as enjoyable for me at all.

And the added bonus to it all… if I actually take the time to learn ele and get competent, I’ll be tearing up those ranger druids in wvw and spvp while they are fiddling around building their astral force trying to survive my elemental fists of fury

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

OP, you do realize that you have zero actual arguments about Tempest being better do you? All that we get from your post is that you just dislike the AF system and therefore trying to convince yourself that Druid healer is not worth it.

Aidenwolf.5964:

1. Tempests have constant AOE regen and very decent burst heals compared to Druids who lack the AOE of Tempest but have a significant big heal.

This says nothing at all. Regen is not hard to come by in a raid of 10 and also Astral Wisp counts as a contant low-ish heal as well.

Aidenwolf.5964:

2. Tempests (while running Apoth) have very good burning damage while not losing the ability to shout heal, something a Druid cannot match as they’re in staff almost always trying to fill the CF bar just to access their heals.

Druid in Zealot with double cats and S/A as a secondary set also has decent damage. An experienced player will never have AF problems while dancing between sword/staff. Even if a healer is not wanted for its damage…

Aidenwolf.5964:

3. Druid mobility is very good and spotter is incredible but spirits are bugged and if another ranger is providing spotter the need for a Druid is greatly lessened. Tempest is very mobile as well and while they don’t provide the buffs a Druid can, spamming fury, might, protection, regen and swiftness is a breeze.

Yeah thank god for fury, might, protection, regen and swiftness! If not for a tempest healer we would have never seen these buffs! Totally outperform Glyph of Empowerment, Sun Spirit, Frost Spirit, Nature Spirit and Grace of the Land!
…

Aidenwolf.5964:

4. The clunky mechanics and bugs that plague the Druid I could live with if they out healed my Tempest but in my mind it isn’t even close, my Tempest is better. Constant regen uptime and big (enough) heals, (by the way test out arcane brilliance on a water field when you’ve got over +1200 healing it’s ridiculously big) make the Tempest My choice of healer.

This game is not about HPS. All healing builds will never go pure healing because you can keep the whole group alive while providing other useful stuff like a bit of DPS and buffs.

I appreciate your thoughtful response. Tempest healer, specifically my build also is one of the 3 going to red on split in Vale. Blue green and red down at the same time meaning I’m adding serious DPS to the raid when not pure healing. I am absolutely out DPSing My Druid.

It’s personal preference but the game isn’t built around Druid healing and I don’t miss it when I’m on my Tempest.

I never once claimed to have issues generating AF and as for experience My Ranger is named Aidenwolf is My main and is 3 days older than launch so… I referenced the clunky UI and by that I mean that Druid healing is gated by a timer both in and out of form and by AF. Tempest healing handles oh kitten better, if you disagree I’d recommend trying a Tempest and seeing for yourself.

The Druid is great in PvP but I’m not a fan of the mechanic. I’ve raid healed for 15 years that’s experience.

nacario.9417:

I have little exp with a tempest but i am temptested to try one out. What I wonder though can the Tempest both heal and tank gorseval? Since currently a druid is nice for both roles in this fight.
The other part i wonder is does Gotl, sun spirit, frost spirit, empowerment glyph, in general provide enough raid damage/upkeep that this surpasses the individual damage difference a tempest does over a druid (staff AA + pet)?

None knows this answer?

Aidenwolf.5964:

<snip>

So basically what you’re saying is that tempest outheals, outbuffs and outdps druid, all in one build? In short, it’s better in every way.

Pretty kitten amazing balance if that’s true, which I wouldn’t be a tiny bit surprised if it actually is, it’s Anet we’re dealing with after all.

nacario.9417:

nacario.9417:

I have little exp with a tempest but i am temptested to try one out. What I wonder though can the Tempest both heal and tank gorseval? Since currently a druid is nice for both roles in this fight.
The other part i wonder is does Gotl, sun spirit, frost spirit, empowerment glyph, in general provide enough raid damage/upkeep that this surpasses the individual damage difference a tempest does over a druid (staff AA + pet)?

None knows this answer?

The Gor fight is anti Spirits as adds go to them hurting the pull. Tempest could absolutely heal tank that fight with a good raid team. I’d want one or 2 of the others dropping an occasional heal to take some of the pressure off the Tempest but that’s more piece of mind than necessity.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Aidenwolf.5964:

<snip>

So basically what you’re saying is that tempest outheals, outbuffs and outdps druid, all in one build? In short, it’s better in every way.

Pretty kitten amazing balance if that’s true, which I wouldn’t be a tiny bit surprised if it actually is, it’s Anet we’re dealing with after all.

Buffing is what Eles do so that’s not a shock. The raw heal numbers clearly favor the Druid it’s the design of the class that makes me favor Tempest. Damage is clearly in favor of Apoth Tempest and with 1 signet you can add 10% burn duration and push the damage even higher.

The difference between Druid and Tempest healing is much like Engineer vs Warrior burn specs. Engineers do more potential damage but Warriors do it easier. That’s how I see Tempest healing it’s on demand so I can concentrate on the fight and not my cooldowns and AF generation or CA timers.

Aidenwolf.5964:

nacario.9417:

nacario.9417:

I have little exp with a tempest but i am temptested to try one out. What I wonder though can the Tempest both heal and tank gorseval? Since currently a druid is nice for both roles in this fight.
The other part i wonder is does Gotl, sun spirit, frost spirit, empowerment glyph, in general provide enough raid damage/upkeep that this surpasses the individual damage difference a tempest does over a druid (staff AA + pet)?

None knows this answer?

The Gor fight is anti Spirits as adds go to them hurting the pull. Tempest could absolutely heal tank that fight with a good raid team. I’d want one or 2 of the others dropping an occasional heal to take some of the pressure off the Tempest but that’s more piece of mind than necessity.

I make sure to time spirits for the dps phases, but if overall dmg is still in druids favor or equal i dont see myself swapping

Aidenwolf.5964:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

OP, you do realize that you have zero actual arguments about Tempest being better do you? All that we get from your post is that you just dislike the AF system and therefore trying to convince yourself that Druid healer is not worth it.

Aidenwolf.5964:

1. Tempests have constant AOE regen and very decent burst heals compared to Druids who lack the AOE of Tempest but have a significant big heal.

This says nothing at all. Regen is not hard to come by in a raid of 10 and also Astral Wisp counts as a contant low-ish heal as well.

Aidenwolf.5964:

2. Tempests (while running Apoth) have very good burning damage while not losing the ability to shout heal, something a Druid cannot match as they’re in staff almost always trying to fill the CF bar just to access their heals.

Druid in Zealot with double cats and S/A as a secondary set also has decent damage. An experienced player will never have AF problems while dancing between sword/staff. Even if a healer is not wanted for its damage…

Aidenwolf.5964:

3. Druid mobility is very good and spotter is incredible but spirits are bugged and if another ranger is providing spotter the need for a Druid is greatly lessened. Tempest is very mobile as well and while they don’t provide the buffs a Druid can, spamming fury, might, protection, regen and swiftness is a breeze.

Yeah thank god for fury, might, protection, regen and swiftness! If not for a tempest healer we would have never seen these buffs! Totally outperform Glyph of Empowerment, Sun Spirit, Frost Spirit, Nature Spirit and Grace of the Land!
…

Aidenwolf.5964:

4. The clunky mechanics and bugs that plague the Druid I could live with if they out healed my Tempest but in my mind it isn’t even close, my Tempest is better. Constant regen uptime and big (enough) heals, (by the way test out arcane brilliance on a water field when you’ve got over +1200 healing it’s ridiculously big) make the Tempest My choice of healer.

This game is not about HPS. All healing builds will never go pure healing because you can keep the whole group alive while providing other useful stuff like a bit of DPS and buffs.

I appreciate your thoughtful response. Tempest healer, specifically my build also is one of the 3 going to red on split in Vale. Blue green and red down at the same time meaning I’m adding serious DPS to the raid when not pure healing. I am absolutely out DPSing My Druid.

It’s personal preference but the game isn’t built around Druid healing and I don’t miss it when I’m on my Tempest.

I never once claimed to have issues generating AF and as for experience My Ranger is named Aidenwolf is My main and is 3 days older than launch so… I referenced the clunky UI and by that I mean that Druid healing is gated by a timer both in and out of form and by AF. Tempest healing handles oh kitten better, if you disagree I’d recommend trying a Tempest and seeing for yourself.

The Druid is great in PvP but I’m not a fan of the mechanic. I’ve raid healed for 15 years that’s experience.

Again, a healer is not wanted for it’s dps. DPS is the job of the remaining 8/9 people in your raid. Your job is to provide the best buffs you can for your group, and keep them alive at all times.

Both Druid and Tempest can keep a group alive, but druid completely outperforms tempest when comparing offensive buffs.

Both classes can complete a raid as healers. Druid is just a better choice because the raid overall will go faster.

Your post is saying the exact opposite, and that’s where you are wrong.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

OP, you do realize that you have zero actual arguments about Tempest being better do you? All that we get from your post is that you just dislike the AF system and therefore trying to convince yourself that Druid healer is not worth it.

Aidenwolf.5964:

1. Tempests have constant AOE regen and very decent burst heals compared to Druids who lack the AOE of Tempest but have a significant big heal.

This says nothing at all. Regen is not hard to come by in a raid of 10 and also Astral Wisp counts as a contant low-ish heal as well.

Aidenwolf.5964:

2. Tempests (while running Apoth) have very good burning damage while not losing the ability to shout heal, something a Druid cannot match as they’re in staff almost always trying to fill the CF bar just to access their heals.

Druid in Zealot with double cats and S/A as a secondary set also has decent damage. An experienced player will never have AF problems while dancing between sword/staff. Even if a healer is not wanted for its damage…

Aidenwolf.5964:

3. Druid mobility is very good and spotter is incredible but spirits are bugged and if another ranger is providing spotter the need for a Druid is greatly lessened. Tempest is very mobile as well and while they don’t provide the buffs a Druid can, spamming fury, might, protection, regen and swiftness is a breeze.

Yeah thank god for fury, might, protection, regen and swiftness! If not for a tempest healer we would have never seen these buffs! Totally outperform Glyph of Empowerment, Sun Spirit, Frost Spirit, Nature Spirit and Grace of the Land!
…

Aidenwolf.5964:

4. The clunky mechanics and bugs that plague the Druid I could live with if they out healed my Tempest but in my mind it isn’t even close, my Tempest is better. Constant regen uptime and big (enough) heals, (by the way test out arcane brilliance on a water field when you’ve got over +1200 healing it’s ridiculously big) make the Tempest My choice of healer.

This game is not about HPS. All healing builds will never go pure healing because you can keep the whole group alive while providing other useful stuff like a bit of DPS and buffs.

I appreciate your thoughtful response. Tempest healer, specifically my build also is one of the 3 going to red on split in Vale. Blue green and red down at the same time meaning I’m adding serious DPS to the raid when not pure healing. I am absolutely out DPSing My Druid.

It’s personal preference but the game isn’t built around Druid healing and I don’t miss it when I’m on my Tempest.

I never once claimed to have issues generating AF and as for experience My Ranger is named Aidenwolf is My main and is 3 days older than launch so… I referenced the clunky UI and by that I mean that Druid healing is gated by a timer both in and out of form and by AF. Tempest healing handles oh kitten better, if you disagree I’d recommend trying a Tempest and seeing for yourself.

The Druid is great in PvP but I’m not a fan of the mechanic. I’ve raid healed for 15 years that’s experience.

Again, a healer is not wanted for it’s dps. DPS is the job of the remaining 8/9 people in your raid. Your job is to provide the best buffs you can for your group, and keep them alive at all times.

Both Druid and Tempest can keep a group alive, but druid completely outperforms tempest when comparing offensive buffs.

Both classes can complete a raid as healers. Druid is just a better choice because the raid overall will go faster.

Your post is saying the exact opposite, and that’s where you are wrong.

You really should make your mind up. (from above)

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Druid in Zealot with double cats and S/A as a secondary set also has decent damage.

You also mocked the buffs Eles provide but at least it’s entertaining. Raid encounters are on timers and you aren’t always healing so personal damage of the healer is relevant.

This isn’t my run or my preferred build but pay close attention to health bars while they ran to the circle on a lit section. That’s on demand Aura power. Again, I’ve actually healed on Druid and Tempest, you clearly haven’t

https://youtu.be/f2xJZHT8NGY

Aidenwolf.5964:

https://youtu.be/f2xJZHT8NGY

Beastly Tempest Heals. I like.