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Wondrouswall.7169:

Aidenwolf.5964:

https://youtu.be/f2xJZHT8NGY

Beastly Tempest Heals. I like.

Not mine but it demonstrates my point. I used staff and Apothecary gear. The auras are good though aren’t they?

Aidenwolf.5964:

Not mine but it demonstrates my point. I used staff and Apothecary gear. The auras are good though aren’t they?

Indeed. I’ll try and get an apothecary set for my Tempest to try this out. You have my interest piqued.

You just don’t wanna accept that Glyph of Empowerment, Sun Spirit, Frost Spirit, Nature Spirit and Grace of the Land are way better buffs than anything a Tempest can offer, do you?

Okay then, pretend that auras and common buffs that other classes should provide, outbuff druid, and therefore Tempest is better…

Wondrouswall.7169:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Not mine but it demonstrates my point. I used staff and Apothecary gear. The auras are good though aren’t they?

Indeed. I’ll try and get an apothecary set for my Tempest to try this out. You have my interest piqued.

Before buying an Apothecary set, you should know that the Elementalist in this video is running Dagger/Warhorn with a Zealot set (it’s currently one of the best weapon/stat combination for a raid healer tempest).

The OP plays Apothecary with Staff which is, in my opinion, the worst combination. I main Elementalist in PvE and I wouldn’t recommend it. It might work if you sit in water, spam heal and don’t care about damage, but even for this, there are better stat choices.

Yes, auras are great. Both druid and tempest can main heal the current raid wing. But Apothecary + Staff is a mistake. If the OP enjoys it, fine for him but don’t be misled ;)

PS: This thread should be moved to the Elementalist forum

Having played a zealots/zerker druid, tempest and ventari herald in raids, I think all of them have something to offer. That said, it depends a lot on the fight and group.

Healing wise, I found all of them to be sufficient to keeping decent players alive but they all have different perks/niches.

Tempest Support: Besides healing, tempest with frost aura and protection on aura was great for preventing damage to the team when we didn’t have a hammer guard. Furthermore, the shout aura + powerful aura meant I often affected more than 5 people with each shout. No DPS buffs to the team.

Ranger:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNUQJATWnUqAVsglsC2sCEtgFDBDerGWLrPbhbXOjJAsuaAnskwJB-ThSBABNqE8hrAAlq/clyjT1Eg1+DlpEDPdA6fIAA4BAQKA/maB-e
The important combo was resounding timbre, we heal as one, rune of water and cultivated synergy. As long as I used only #3/4 on the green aoe then immediately leave CA, just using #6 as well as signet of the wild was plenty of AF to camp longbow most of the time. Staff was for emergency heals/mobility when people screwed up. Much better offensive buffs than tempest but no damage reduction. Longbow could be replaced with sword/axe depending on the fight for power builds. This build could easily be a axe/torch quickdraw apothecary build instead if the team was good enough to not require me to swap to staff for clutch heals.

Herald: Best +outgoing heal modifiers (can reach like 200% bonus outgoing heals) and some massive burst heals but the biggest problem I had was that my team often didn’t want to stay near the tablet and the tablet is slow. For VG, I decided not to bring my herald for heals. For the next two fights though, it’s a lot easier to be a ventari healer while camping sword auto. Provides ferocity bonus for the group depending on traits. Does have offensive boons while channeling glint but it means you aren’t healing. Also depends on if the group has DPS heralds/PS warriors for boons.

TLDR:
So overall, all the classes bring a different style of healing. While I did do power for all 3 builds, the tempest and druid can both swap to condi+ heals. Herald… not so great with condi while healing. Overall damage was actually comparable.

Tempest: Reduce Dmg to team
Druid: Increase Dmg of team with unique buffs
Rev/Herald: Best heals vs still bosses and provides common buffs.
All of them: Good enough healing in mostly zerker gear to keep decent teams alive.

Earix.5684:

Wondrouswall.7169:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Not mine but it demonstrates my point. I used staff and Apothecary gear. The auras are good though aren’t they?

Indeed. I’ll try and get an apothecary set for my Tempest to try this out. You have my interest piqued.

Before buying an Apothecary set, you should know that the Elementalist in this video is running Dagger/Warhorn with a Zealot set (it’s currently one of the best weapon/stat combination for a raid healer tempest).

The OP plays Apothecary with Staff which is, in my opinion, the worst combination. I main Elementalist in PvE and I wouldn’t recommend it. It might work if you sit in water, spam heal and don’t care about damage, but even for this, there are better stat choices.

Yes, auras are great. Both druid and tempest can main heal the current raid wing. But Apothecary + Staff is a mistake. If the OP enjoys it, fine for him but don’t be misled

PS: This thread should be moved to the Elementalist forum

I tried D/F and D/WH for a glass condi tempest. Camp fire and spam F1/2/3 on CD + fire field on offhand. Quite a bit of burning that I was able to replace a viper/sinister engi.

I don’t think it would be too bad using apothecary instead but I agree that staff is a terrible choice for a condi tempest. Fire/earth would be the go to attunes to keep the condi dmg going with air/water for brief aura bursts and healing.

Edit: maybe not apothecary actually unless you are also tanking as that does come with toughness. Viper+Apothecary or maybe even some shaman to avoid aggro otherwise.

Have any of you tempest healer converts actually killed the harder fights like Sabetha/Gorseval? Everytime I see this tempest healer hype, the player has only killed Vale Guardian with it. The one person I know who’s tempest healed the entire wing even said Druid was easily better for the raid comp.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

You just don’t wanna accept that Glyph of Empowerment, Sun Spirit, Frost Spirit, Nature Spirit and Grace of the Land are way better buffs than anything a Tempest can offer, do you?

Okay then, pretend that auras and common buffs that other classes should provide, outbuff druid, and therefore Tempest is better…

The thing is a full DPS druid (without healing power, brought into raid for personal DPS that is quite high) offers most of mentioned benefits as well.

However, you are on the right track that Rangers benefit from DPS stats far less than any other profession since we have a set amount of constant DPS glued to our pet and we maximize squad’s DPS by healing them – not dealing damage ourselves.

Just keep in mind that when it comes to Healing vs. DPS vs. Support triangle, you shouldn’t evaluate benefits that a different build offers. Nothing apart from Grace of the Land is connected to healing.

I wouldn’t consider myself a convert since I’ve been trying them all from the start and believe they all have their merits.

My group is currently stuck at Gorseval. However, it’s not really for lack of healing when I’m on my tempest. The protection/frost aura actually helps a lot with sustain vs Gorsaval’s auto attacks which my druid doesn’t provide. I’m half zealots/half zerker and not equipped to heal the constant failure to dodge the knockdown slam. I don’t consider that on me though since we lack the dps to burn him and people need to get better at dodging that attack so that they aren’t a DPS loss with the 3 sec KD. Also people keep messing up the gliding and I can’t heal insta dead from falling damage.

The rotation for druid healer is definitely easier. I could see Druid for Sabetha being easier as a ranged role is required. That’s also why I liked Druid on VG for someone that is always going to green aoe. However, I’m liking my tempest more for Gorsaval and think it’s the better one for that fight.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

You just don’t wanna accept that Glyph of Empowerment, Sun Spirit, Frost Spirit, Nature Spirit and Grace of the Land are way better buffs than anything a Tempest can offer, do you?

Okay then, pretend that auras and common buffs that other classes should provide, outbuff druid, and therefore Tempest is better…

The thing is a full DPS druid (without healing power, brought into raid for personal DPS that is quite high) offers most of mentioned benefits as well.

A full DPS druid won’t be enough for a dps role. Rangers losing a significant (huge) amount of DPS just by traiting druid.

The huge lack of healing power along with staff absence will make you not able to keep your group alive, and you will not be able to generate AF efficiently.

You will not be able to maintain a healthy Grace of the Land, first of all because of AF problems and secondly because if you stay 50% of your time in CAF, your dps will be far below average.

In short DPS druid is not a thing in any game-mode I’m afraid.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

In short DPS druid is not a thing in any game-mode I’m afraid.

It’s a thing. I wouldn’t recommend it but you can:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3u3x6o/scs_offensive_druid_for_raids/ (Zerker druid with staff instead of LB)

It is SC though, would likely fail horribly with most of GW2’s population until everyone becomes very comfortable with the raids. But yes, the Grace of the Land uptime for a DPS druid would be much lower than a dedicated healer build.

@DuckDuckBoom
If you’re having trouble with Gorseval for lack of DPS, you should try using your druid instead for the raid DPS buffing potential. More DPS makes every fight easier. I’m not really the best at giving advice for Gorseval, especially without seeing your raid’s strat. I do kinda feel people fixate on the knockdown too much when it’s really something like orbs getting out of control or Gorseval eating too many spirits that’s causing the wipes. Knockdowns do suck though and people shouldn’t eat every one of them :/

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

A full DPS druid won’t be enough for a dps role. Rangers losing a significant (huge) amount of DPS just by traiting druid.

I’d like to ask you to elaborate.
Druid is an increase of DPS in comparison to Nature Magic for + ~10% personal.
Druid statistically increases 5 people’s DPS by 5% which is a higher DPS benefit than either BM or Nature Magic.

If I’m wrong, please demonstrate which (huge) damage parameter from other trait lines am I missing?

Every day and night tempest is best
With tempest tank/healer/condi stats we managed to get VG down with 2min15sec left

Druid was only viable because Anet promoted it, but once people figured out that this was a lie, they went tempest and got insta bust for 50% better heals and buffing without giving away any dmg compared to druid junk.

Permanent regen is super easy on druid (resounding trimbre trait or healing sprint, or warhorn gives regen trait + weapon swap use call of wild trait).

I think nothing can beat astral avatar nr 3 with full healing power, unless i’m mistaken, someone did an 8000 heal on me with it.

And druid has +15% power AND condition damage boost to other players they heal. Something elementalist cannot really provide.

I’ve had a lot of tempest say the opposite ‘i like but but meh, i’m going revenant or warrior, or even druid’.

I think this is just one sided perspective. Also I could tell my guildie who loves her druid to play tempest, but she simply is very good with druid. She safe the raid quite many times with very responsive heals (nr 1+3 in caf form ranged exactly where it should be, not an easy thing, in all the chaos). It’s about being comfortable with a class and getting the best out of it also.

But I admit I left my druid after the Caf acquisition nerf (though that should not be an issue in raids, more so in pve, wich is why i left druid).

I’ve still yet to hear from people who killed Gorseval/Sabetha while playing a tempest healer (I know it’s possible, just not recommended). All of you can be proud of your Vale Guardian kills with Tempest Healer, but druid is easily the better choice for any fight that’s actually hard unlike the first boss. Not sure how you can consider tempest healer a superior build when there are far fewer Gorseval/Sabetha kills with a tempest healer than a druid healer. Viable? Yes. Better? No.

TurtleDragon.3108:

I’ve still yet to hear from people who killed Gorseval/Sabetha while playing a tempest healer (I know it’s possible, just not recommended). All of you can be proud of your Vale Guardian kills with Tempest Healer, but druid is easily the better choice for any fight that’s actually hard unlike the first boss. Not sure how you can consider tempest healer a superior build when there are far fewer Gorseval/Sabetha kills with a tempest healer than a druid healer. Viable? Yes. Better? No.

As I said earlier the raw healing numbers clearly favor Druid. My issue with Druid is the gating of the heals, which when I’m on my Tempest are magnified. If you spreadsheet a condition DPS spec an Engi destroys a Warrior but a Warrior is much easier because it doesn’t require button mashing (other than 1) to achieve it’s potential. I posted my review on the Ranger forum because I hope Anet consider changing CA to work more like Necro DS which would allow you heal without staring at a resource bar or timer.

Healing with the druid is like working in a circus: You have 15 seconds to heal everyone, give as many as possible the boon and also keep you alive.
The unique boons, and you say unique you mean stackable with the others, is the only good thing, but then again you don’t need druid to use the spirits.

And Grace of the land last 8 seconds each stack. Even if you can keep up the AF generation faster than the CD means at least 2 seconds (if not more) you will be without any boon.

So yeah, CAF needs to be more healing burst than tempest or ventari. Ventari can drop the lunar impact heal every 2 seconds with the tablet, so there is that….

For the video from Aidenwolf.5964 every one can appreciate how the Tempest keeps everyone so healed that are moments where there are no green numbers, even when everyone has the regeneration.

You can not get that with the druid, and to use shouts for the perma regen you don’t need the druid.

And the last nail in the coffin is the fact that the tempest also helps with a massive DPS so the run goes more smoothly.

If you don’t like the druid mechanics that’s okay, a lot of people don’t and seem to think Druid is terrible because of their biased opinions. Most of the people who don’t are also spreading the information that Tempest is overall better when it is clearly not. I have friends in other guilds who are convinced that tempest > druid and they haven’t killed anything after the first boss.

Also warrior is only good on Large Hitboxes. It’s a niche gimmick build for Gorseval and it is very good at it. If your condi warriors are outdps-ing your engineers on other fights, then you’re playing with bad engineers, which is likely because most people can’t do the rotation in a raid environment.

TurtleDragon.3108:

If you don’t like the druid mechanics that’s okay, a lot of people don’t and seem to think Druid is terrible because of their biased opinions. Most of the people who don’t are also spreading the information that Tempest is overall better when it is clearly not. I have friends in other guilds who are convinced that tempest > druid and they haven’t killed anything after the first boss.

Pretty much this ends every druid “QQ” thread. Nothing more to add.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

TurtleDragon.3108:

If you don’t like the druid mechanics that’s okay, a lot of people don’t and seem to think Druid is terrible because of their biased opinions. Most of the people who don’t are also spreading the information that Tempest is overall better when it is clearly not. I have friends in other guilds who are convinced that tempest > druid and they haven’t killed anything after the first boss.

Pretty much this ends every druid “QQ” thread. Nothing more to add.

I don’t QQ kid troll along. I prefer the ungated mechanic of the Ele and hopefully in 8 weeks when they rebalance they’ll fix this pile.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

TurtleDragon.3108:

If you don’t like the druid mechanics that’s okay, a lot of people don’t and seem to think Druid is terrible because of their biased opinions. Most of the people who don’t are also spreading the information that Tempest is overall better when it is clearly not. I have friends in other guilds who are convinced that tempest > druid and they haven’t killed anything after the first boss.

Pretty much this ends every druid “QQ” thread. Nothing more to add.

I don’t QQ kid troll along. I prefer the ungated mechanic of the Ele and hopefully in 8 weeks when they rebalance they’ll fix this pile.

First you call someone “troll kid”, then you admit that you simply don’t like the AF mechanic.
Which is far different that your thread’s “point” where you said Tempest is way better and druid is “not so elite spec”.

Pretty much sums this up.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

TurtleDragon.3108:

If you don’t like the druid mechanics that’s okay, a lot of people don’t and seem to think Druid is terrible because of their biased opinions. Most of the people who don’t are also spreading the information that Tempest is overall better when it is clearly not. I have friends in other guilds who are convinced that tempest > druid and they haven’t killed anything after the first boss.

Pretty much this ends every druid “QQ” thread. Nothing more to add.

I don’t QQ kid troll along. I prefer the ungated mechanic of the Ele and hopefully in 8 weeks when they rebalance they’ll fix this pile.

First you call someone “troll kid”, then you admit that you simply don’t like the AF mechanic.
Which is far different that your thread’s “point” where you said Tempest is way better and druid is “not so elite spec”.

Pretty much sums this up.

Simple question. Have you even raid healed on Druid let alone tempest? I’ve detailed my thoughts on both. Move along.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

TurtleDragon.3108:

If you don’t like the druid mechanics that’s okay, a lot of people don’t and seem to think Druid is terrible because of their biased opinions. Most of the people who don’t are also spreading the information that Tempest is overall better when it is clearly not. I have friends in other guilds who are convinced that tempest > druid and they haven’t killed anything after the first boss.

Pretty much this ends every druid “QQ” thread. Nothing more to add.

I don’t QQ kid troll along. I prefer the ungated mechanic of the Ele and hopefully in 8 weeks when they rebalance they’ll fix this pile.

First you call someone “troll kid”, then you admit that you simply don’t like the AF mechanic.
Which is far different that your thread’s “point” where you said Tempest is way better and druid is “not so elite spec”.

Pretty much sums this up.

Simple question. Have you even raid healed on Druid let alone tempest? I’ve detailed my thoughts on both. Move along.

Yes I have healed on druid and I have dps’ed on tempest. Yes I could probably heal VG on tempest. Is it viable? Yes. Is it better? No.
That’s what you fail to admit, and ignore players that say otherwise with actual proof. I won’t post any screenshots or videos. There are plenty out there from pugs to top-end raid guilds. See how many use druids and how many use tempest. I guess you know better than them…

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

TurtleDragon.3108:

If you don’t like the druid mechanics that’s okay, a lot of people don’t and seem to think Druid is terrible because of their biased opinions. Most of the people who don’t are also spreading the information that Tempest is overall better when it is clearly not. I have friends in other guilds who are convinced that tempest > druid and they haven’t killed anything after the first boss.

Pretty much this ends every druid “QQ” thread. Nothing more to add.

I don’t QQ kid troll along. I prefer the ungated mechanic of the Ele and hopefully in 8 weeks when they rebalance they’ll fix this pile.

First you call someone “troll kid”, then you admit that you simply don’t like the AF mechanic.
Which is far different that your thread’s “point” where you said Tempest is way better and druid is “not so elite spec”.

Pretty much sums this up.

Simple question. Have you even raid healed on Druid let alone tempest? I’ve detailed my thoughts on both. Move along.

Yes I have healed on druid and I have dps’ed on tempest. Yes I could probably heal VG on tempest. Is it viable? Yes. Is it better? No.
That’s what you fail to admit, and ignore players that say otherwise with actual proof. I won’t post any screenshots or videos. There are plenty out there from pugs to top-end raid guilds. See how many use druids and how many use tempest. I guess you know better than them…

You’re adding nothing to the discussion other than anecdotes and hyperbole. I’m not basing my thoughts on other players or compositions I’m talking about my preference and citing my experiences with both.

The Druid’s heals are gated this is a fact. If you’re only interested in derailing I suggest you try an easier target. I’ve been raid healing longer than you’ve likely been playing video games.

No one has provided proof of any kind, I’m a man of science I’d listen to proof.

Aidenwolf.5964:

You’re adding nothing to the discussion other than anecdotes and hyperbole. I’m not basing my thoughts on other players or compositions I’m talking about my preference and citing my experiences with both.

The Druid’s heals are gated this is a fact. If you’re only interested in derailing I suggest you try an easier target. I’ve been raid healing longer than you’ve likely been playing video games.

No one has provided proof of any kind, I’m a man of science I’d listen to proof.

You’re doing nothing but anecdotes and personal experience as well, since most of your reasoning is “I don’t like it” or I can’t adjust my playstyle to fit the Druid Mechanics.

Also, we already explained why Druid is infinitely better https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Dumping-Druid-for-Tempest/first#post5806687 , especially now that spirits are fixed again. (They were also better while spirits were bugged).

Lets just keep it civil all, Druid is viable and good – so is Tempest for different reasons. Druid can bring all sorts of buffs for the group and is an excellent burst healer and Tempest can heal whenever with Auramancer build with defensive buffs like protection for the group. I think we can all agree to that. It’s like apples and oranges, OP was just showing how viable Tempest is for the healing role instead of Druid. Whether if it was better or worse, that’s up to the reader and testers to decide.

I love learning about other viable classes though so I appreciate threads like this. Maybe there’s another(maybe even better) way to fill in a healer role. And it should be encouraged to be shared with others.

Personally I’ll use Druid because first of all I don’t like playing Elementalist as a personal reason even though I think I’ll be giving it a shot next time I’m raiding and mostly because I know Ranger and Druid skills like the back of my hand, that now it’s all become much like muscle reflex when I need to do something.

Ele water/tempest is a far better healer and more capable than ranger/druid at “bringing heavy healing to GW2” and it is more suited to “sustain a zerg train of 20-30 players in WvW.”…

I personally do not care about what dps buff ranger/druid brings to paper, stationary bosses or against training dummies, I care about being about to heal moving masses of players without having to mess around with AF gimmicks, almost worthless mini healing beams and the all reticle heal design that misses most moving targets. I’m still learning ele, but it’s far superior at protecting players as well. So probably pound for pound, ele is doing more to keep the dps numbers flowing because players are dying less. That’s something to consider outside of your immobile and scripted encounter numbers.

Hands down the druid cannot compete to the overall healing capabilities that ele offers. I’m running round in a “ghetto” healing build and popping off more green numbers and keeping peeps up than any of the druids in the pack.

And those quotes were used to describe druid healer at twitchcon. I want that healer, not the one we have now and not the one with all the AF gating gimmicks, timed reticle aim healing and awful for healing and support staff.

Edit- I would pay 100k gems to have a personal use dps and heal meter right now. I guarantee the druid would be inferior to ele in every aspect when all the numbers are combined and put on the table.

Edit 2- Plus, I’m pulling off tons of damage numbers and have access to on demand heals when I need them. Best of all, I’m smoothly doing both damage and healing roles while hardly breaking a sweat. I also spend more time with my eyes on the action not the combat or squad bar…

Guys, we don’t have to put down the hate on the ones that claim that tempest is more capable in most every aspect than druid. Most of us know the design of druid is more or less flawed in many ways. It’s supposed to be the #1 healing spec by far, but lots of different things together add up in the end, meaning there may be other professions that do this better.
We don’t need to defend this class, we need Anet to deliver what they set out to do. They are only halfway there, imho.

nacario.9417:

I have little exp with a tempest but i am temptested to try one out. What I wonder though can the Tempest both heal and tank gorseval? Since currently a druid is nice for both roles in this fight.
The other part i wonder is does Gotl, sun spirit, frost spirit, empowerment glyph, in general provide enough raid damage/upkeep that this surpasses the individual damage difference a tempest does over a druid (staff AA + pet)?

None seem to know this answer, esp the last part. My take is that druid can top off any competent raid party, as the tempest, so from a healing pov it currently doesnt matter as everyone has their supportive skills to bring. Good teams dont need more heals over time than the burst healing druid provide due to raid mechanics.
But if the overall raid damage druid provides through gotl and utilities surpasses the overall damage tempest provides, then id say druid is still best, as competent teams can kill bosses faster and doesnt relay as much on heals due to player mistakes. This is something all raid groups wants to aim for in order to beat the bosses.