Guild Wars 2

Who else thinks its pretty lame that a thief can stealth his way out of entangle… seriously how does being stealthed remove binding roots…
If ranger skills cant be fixed to use logic, how about do us a favor and resurrect the old throw dirt skill and give us atleast a fighting chance…

If I’m not mistaken, it isn’t the stealth that causes them to escape the vines. It is the trait that removes a condition every 3s while in stealth that allows them to escape (or one of their several evade skills). In fact, the only profession that struggles to escape the vines is necromancer if you already forced out their heal.

Indoles.1467:

If I’m not mistaken, it isn’t the stealth that causes them to escape the vines. It is the trait that removes a condition every 3s while in stealth that allows them to escape (or one of their several evade skills). In fact, the only profession that struggles to escape the vines is necromancer if you already forced out their heal.

Stealth lets them escape Entangle.

Tricare.2946:

Indoles.1467:

If I’m not mistaken, it isn’t the stealth that causes them to escape the vines. It is the trait that removes a condition every 3s while in stealth that allows them to escape (or one of their several evade skills). In fact, the only profession that struggles to escape the vines is necromancer if you already forced out their heal.

Stealth lets them escape Entangle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6tpq0Z3PtQ

Wow!

Thank you, Tricare, for that excellent and visually explanatory video.

Anet’s ranger = hard mode.

The immobilize on Entangle is so easily bypassed, the skill would probably be better off changed to one of those AOE vine fields which constantly cripples and bleeds you while you’re standing/moving in them. As it currently is, it’s not much better than the elementalist downed skill Grasping Earth, and the ele skill is actually better in some respects. It generates an AOE field which can immobilize you if you walk back in after the initial cast. Entangle only generates entangling vines underneath nearby enemies, and I’m not even sure if they can recapture you if you walk back in.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grasping_Earth
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Entangle

I still think entangle should be a big AoE that’ll cast the roots (with less health) every second they’re in the field… IE: create an area of zone denial.

Entangle is AoE when it creates the vines, but the actual vines created are objects that require a target in order to continue to apply their effects.

When a thief stealths, the vines target drops, and because the vines need a target as mentioned, it allows the thief to escape.

Yes, it’s ridiculous.

Durzlla.6295:

I still think entangle should be a big AoE that’ll cast the roots (with less health) every second they’re in the field… IE: create an area of zone denial.

I’d settle for a long duration Static Field effect with some nature themed sprites/objects for flavor.

Tricare.2946:

Indoles.1467:

If I’m not mistaken, it isn’t the stealth that causes them to escape the vines. It is the trait that removes a condition every 3s while in stealth that allows them to escape (or one of their several evade skills). In fact, the only profession that struggles to escape the vines is necromancer if you already forced out their heal.

Stealth lets them escape Entangle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6tpq0Z3PtQ

Thank You! for exposing the truth.

Another example of Favoritism vs Failure

Solandri.9640:

I’m not even sure if they can recapture you if you walk back in.

They do indeed retangle you. They create a neat little trap that you can occasionally lure people over in small group fights.

Anywho, I didn’t realize entangle immobilizes already stealthed thieves. That could come in really handy in a close fight.

I have made posts/threads about how entangle sucks/needs remake but I think Anet just doesn’t care about it. This thread will get lost without being answered just like all the rest of them.

I think it’s a fair tradeoff. Entangle is really weak against some classes like thieves, but a well placed entangle can totally wreck a Necro or Mesmer.

roamzero.9486:

I think it’s a fair tradeoff. Entangle is really weak against some classes like thieves, but a well placed entangle can totally wreck a Necro or Mesmer.

Or ele, catch an ele right after they heal and swap out of water Attunement and they’re toast.

For those of you that don’t know why, eles are like sharks, once they stop moving, they die.

I’ll give you necro, but Mesmer can just blink or stealth out of it easily. Ele can be done, but not against a well played one.

Tricare.2946:

I’ll give you necro, but Mesmer can just blink or stealth out of it easily. Ele can be done, but not against a well played one.

Mesmers and eles can both be caught in entangle for at LEAST 8 seconds if you time it right, you can’t just in in like most rangers do and go LOLOLOLLOLZ I GOT DIZ GUYZ!! And pop it while they’ve got all their CDs up, mesmers have limited access to stealth and condi removal, and their teleports still have CDs, just catch them in it right after they teleport and after they’ve exhausted their stealths, or use it to force them to stealth (like after you just wiped out their clones).

Trust me, I play Mesmer a lot, and even though I run blink, scepter, and staff ( both weapons 2 teleports you out of entangle) I’ve gotten completely kittened over by a well timed entangle, same on my ele.

Granted it’s rare, (as I said most rangers blow their elite waaaaaaaaaay to early) but it’s doable.

Well let’s agree to disagree. These 20/20/30 prismatic mesmers running around with decoy, blink, mass invis, veil, and torch off-hand would just lol at a ranger trying to entangle him. Not to mention staff if they decide to use that, that’s what… a 8 second cooldown blink?

The only real way to entangle someone without having them instantly escape is to chain-roll a number of conditions, such that when the entangle is activated the enemy will not simply dodge-roll out of it. For example, a ranger can fight a thief by paying close attention to how they will burst you; using a fire trap + entangle + wolf fear + poison volley or serpent’s strike + concussion shot or hilt bash at the end of the fear (to stop them from healing or escaping the vines) and throwing another fire trap wile applying pressure with pet damage + yourself… that is how you use entangle efficiently against a thief.

Even after all that, you can slip, time the entangle wrong, throw out all your stuff without realizing that the thief foresaw it, and you should stop your rotation and wait for your next chance. Not to mention you only get at most 5 or so seconds to really put in that damage, to psychologically scare the thief (or any other player) to death before they do something to escape, heck throw a hyena and get a double stun if you are lucky you will pull it off.

So why the heck do we need to work so hard for an – elite skill – to be on par again?

awge.3852:

So why the heck do we need to work so hard for an – elite skill – to be on par again?

Welcome to the ranger class.

Making entangle a oae on the ranger like 900 who immobilize 1 seconde\each 3 secondes and cripple\bleed each seconde for 20 secondes, just like melandru debuff aura in cursed shore
That is a fair elite skill.

Very good video. I’m a little surprised. Has it always functioned like this because I feel that I remember a time when entangle was cast while invisible enemies were nearby that the vines still appeared and could catch them and the vines pulsed every second regardless of targets. Then again, I’ve probably casted entangle less than a handful of time in all my playtime as ranger because it is just that pathetic.

Thief here! I agree this issue needs to be addressed. It is far too easy to get out of entangled. I usually get out of it so fast I don’t even notice it when running stealth builds. I really did think it was Shadows Embrace as said above. Great video demonstration! Makes me wonder if this was overlooked or something.

Piedplat.3597:

Making entangle a oae on the ranger like 900 who immobilize 1 seconde\each 3 secondes and cripple\bleed each seconde for 20 secondes, just like melandru debuff aura in cursed shore
That is a fair elite skill.

Right there, that would be ideal. The only problem is that devs are always in the balance prerogative. Is it fair to change the current entangle for it to work accross equally in pvp, pve and wvw? Well for one Entangle is useful everywhere, but it is not as effective as an elite skill compared to what it could be.

That being said, I really like entangle for PvE, it’s excellent. In zerg fights, it can be useful but for a super short period of time (if any). Against a group of enemies? Sure, but pray they’re not mesmers or thieves or anyone who knows their way around entangle… because that will be the end of that skill.

Putting that in retrospect, how can entangle be effective in 1v1 and smaller group fights? I say make it harder for the enemy to get out of it. Make it so that the vines cripple you, or knock you over and grasp you to their location… if you are say at a max range of 400 from them. If they work as a trap that would be cool too, you can activate the elite and the vines (5) would be all around you, enemy steps on it, they get crippled or immobilized.

Anyhow, what are the chances a dev will dare comment on this?

Off topic, but Does Entangle affect 3 foes like the rest of our AoEs?

awge.3852:

Piedplat.3597:

Making entangle a oae on the ranger like 900 who immobilize 1 seconde\each 3 secondes and cripple\bleed each seconde for 20 secondes, just like melandru debuff aura in cursed shore
That is a fair elite skill.

Right there, that would be ideal. The only problem is that devs are always in the balance prerogative. Is it fair to change the current entangle for it to work accross equally in pvp, pve and wvw? Well for one Entangle is useful everywhere, but it is not as effective as an elite skill compared to what it could be.

That being said, I really like entangle for PvE, it’s excellent. In zerg fights, it can be useful but for a super short period of time (if any). Against a group of enemies? Sure, but pray they’re not mesmers or thieves or anyone who knows their way around entangle… because that will be the end of that skill.

Putting that in retrospect, how can entangle be effective in 1v1 and smaller group fights? I say make it harder for the enemy to get out of it. Make it so that the vines cripple you, or knock you over and grasp you to their location… if you are say at a max range of 400 from them. If they work as a trap that would be cool too, you can activate the elite and the vines (5) would be all around you, enemy steps on it, they get crippled or immobilized.

Anyhow, what are the chances a dev will dare comment on this?

Edit: looking at the above video, its pretty clear that entangle needs serious dev love. I vote for it to work as follows:
-First, entangle will work as a ground effect around the area it was casted. Five vines at most will be used this can be traitable, as well as the length of the spell on the zone.
-Second, the zone will pulse grasping vines every 3s or 4s, up for debate; if an enemy steps into the entangled zone, then a grasping vine will activate and immobilize/bleed the enemy with each pulse.
-Third, an enemy can escape a grasping vine, but if it escapes it, the grasping vine will remain in place. The grasping vine now acts as a trap to anyone who steps close enough to it. It will entangle an enemy and pull it to itself (let’s say at 300 range?).
-Fourth, any other enemy that steps into the entangled area will create a new grasping vine, when the entangled area pulses that is. This gives the ranger a very optimal usage of entangle as a source for crowd control. The length of the entangled spell needs to be fair, perhaps 15-20 seconds or so, that is enough time for any ranger to turn the tables on an enemy, which is the point of using an elite skill after all.

I may have made mistakes in writing this as I am in a bit of a rush, feel free to place your comments.

awge.3852:

Edit: looking at the above video, its pretty clear that entangle needs serious dev love. I vote for it to work as follows:
-First, entangle will work as a ground effect around the area it was casted. Five vines at most will be used this can be traitable, as well as the length of the spell on the zone.
-Second, the zone will pulse grasping vines every 3s or 4s, up for debate; if an enemy steps into the entangled zone, then a grasping vine will activate and immobilize/bleed the enemy with each pulse.
-Third, an enemy can escape a grasping vine, but if it escapes it, the grasping vine will remain in place. The grasping vine now acts as a trap to anyone who steps close enough to it. It will entangle an enemy and pull it to itself (let’s say at 300 range?).
-Fourth, any other enemy that steps into the entangled area will create a new grasping vine, when the entangled area pulses that is. This gives the ranger a very optimal usage of entangle as a source for crowd control. The length of the entangled spell needs to be fair, perhaps 15-20 seconds or so, that is enough time for any ranger to turn the tables on an enemy, which is the point of using an elite skill after all.

I may have made mistakes in writing this as I am in a bit of a rush, feel free to place your comments.

Sooo…basically Carrion Creepers from City of Heroes/Villains?
http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Plant_Control#Carrion_Creepers

The current version would be fine if they just changed it to pulsing a small radius AoE around each vine that sprouts up.

After that they could change Hunter’s Call to not massively fail if the target puts a tree/rock/random object between themselves and you.

In technical terms, perhaps this could be changed from a repeated instant skill into a channeled skill with a maximum range equivalent to close melee. This will give some of the improvements needed. I assume the roots are always static and cannot be interrupted if they attack as a channeled skill.

Yes entangle only really seems good against noobies. Thank gawd for noobies!!!

However theres the odd time when mid fight and endurance is low, condition purges used, that it can win the fight. Also great against anyone that uses a lot of pets.

Just a comment, even if the skill itself was improved, I always found one of the major issues with it being the cast itself. The cast is very obvious and I’ve only seen very few players actually fail to dodge it.
If the initial cast fails, no improvement to the skill could possibly help.
Of course it could hit better if used later in a fight when endurance is running low, but fights (not bunker vs. bunker) are rarely very long, so by the time this could prove useful, the fight would be nearly at its end in most cases.

Aria.5940:

Just a comment, even if the skill itself was improved, I always found one of the major issues with it being the cast itself. The cast is very obvious and I’ve only seen very few players actually fail to dodge it.
If the initial cast fails, no improvement to the skill could possibly help.
Of course it could hit better if used later in a fight when endurance is running low, but fights (not bunker vs. bunker) are rarely very long, so by the time this could prove useful, the fight would be nearly at its end in most cases.

I will normally launch entangle from stealth or when I know they have no dodges left to make sure it lands.

It amazes me how many people are saying entangle is a bad elite because it’s good to use mid fight and not as an opener… If you think your elite needs to be an opener I feel sorry for you…

I like the idea of having Entangle as an elite trap. Unavoidable.

I say keep entangle’s effect as is and lower the damage entangle does, but make it so that the effects are unavoidable and you can’t escape vines until you destroy the vines. Vines can be targeted and add a little more HP to vines. This will at least ensure that anyone caught in the entangle will have to either DPS the vines to get out or be stuck for X amount of time.

Making entangle unavoidable will at least force an opponent to waste skills on the vines, and puts extra pressure on them to preserve or use their heal. Considering our pet is not going to be able to hit them much, this should not be OP.

I’d prefer changing Entangle to a large AoE trap that immobilizes enemies and gives stability to allies who step into it.

I only use it when I can come on to a fight from an unwatched angle or as a desperation move to try and get some distance.

I don’t even know where the problem at destroying these vines is… if you’re melee, just spam 1, lol. What would you say if the vines would get a similar effect like Sick ’em?
So nobody could just stealth out.

RyuDragnier.9476:

I’d prefer changing Entangle to a large AoE trap that immobilizes enemies and gives stability to allies who step into it.

That sounds boring… i’d rather it be a big AoE field around you that you create that cripples and bleeds enemies in the area and then will periodically have roots spawn that grab anyone inside the area that immob and bleed (obviously the roots would be weaker than they currently are), essentially just create a giant briar patch of zone denial.

Nono, make that a #5 ability for our eventual druidish staff weapon, Durz.