Guild Wars 2

So we are getting a trait in Soulbeast that says:

“While in Beastmode, if you would be downed you instead fall out of Beastmode and recover health.”

It heals for 3924 and gives 3 seconds of protection.

But its on a 90 second cooldown.
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Meanwhile warriors have Dead or Alive which heals them for 5220 health if they were to take a fatal blow in berserk mode on a 30 second cooldown.
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Wat. Anet u srs?

#unfair

Sure, we can make the comparison, but Berserker mode needs to be charged. As for Beast Mode, you can stay on it forever.

Dead or Alive, if you know a Warrior has it, you just don’t down him in Berserker Mode. As for Ranger, there’s no counter, but to keep doing damage.

Looks fair to me. Ranger gets a less annoying version, but less effective.

To be fair, Berserker mode can charge fairly quickly and can be activated every 10 seconds just like our Beastmode.

Although we can stay in Beastmode forever, having the cooldown reduced allows it to flow better in a fight as well.

When skills/traits have too long of a cooldown, they tend to be put aside in favor of abilities that can be activated more frequently. Look at our Spirit of Nature elite for example.

Not to mention, it is a grandmaster trait.

A 4k heal and a small amount of protection on a 90 second cooldown is definitely NOT worth a grandmaster trait. Even a warrior’s is in the master tier.

shadowpass.4236:

To be fair, Berserker mode can charge fairly quickly and can be activated every 10 seconds just like our Beastmode.

Although we can stay in Beastmode forever, having the cooldown reduced allows it to flow better in a fight as well.

When skills/traits have too long of a cooldown, they tend to be put aside in favor of abilities that can be activated more frequently. Look at our Spirit of Nature elite for example.

Not to mention, it is a grandmaster trait.

A 4k heal and a small amount of protection on a 90 second cooldown is definitely NOT worth a grandmaster trait. Even a warrior’s is in the master tier.

Yeah, no way in the world I would take this trait in it’s current form. 90 seconds is an eternity.

Krispera.5087:

Sure, we can make the comparison, but Berserker mode needs to be charged. As for Beast Mode, you can stay on it forever.

While true we still don’t know the full mechanics of the new spec and it’s likely there is some downside to being in beast mode.

You also still need to exit BM if you want to switch pets to use new skills. That’s a 10 second window where this won’t work. You might also want your hound to slow down a person while you try to bug out and heal up. This won’t save you if you make that choice.

shadowpass.4236:

A 4k heal and a small amount of protection on a 90 second cooldown is definitely NOT worth a grandmaster trait. Even a warrior’s is in the master tier.

Berserk last 15 sec, you can stay in Beast Mode the time you want.

You can use your entire health bar to fight while in Beast Mode and wait for the trait to proc to use both your heal and SoS you especially saved and go again in BM 10 sec later to use Defy Pain from your bear skill (you can have two bears) etc…

Come on, don’t ask pure cancer.

borya.2964:

shadowpass.4236:

A 4k heal and a small amount of protection on a 90 second cooldown is definitely NOT worth a grandmaster trait. Even a warrior’s is in the master tier.

Berserk last 15 sec, you can stay in Beast Mode the time you want.

You can use your entire health bar to fight while in Beast Mode and wait for the trait to proc to use both your heal and SoS you especially saved and go again in BM 10 sec later to use Defy Pain from your bear skill (you can have two bears) etc…

Come on, don’t ask pure cancer.

No matter how you put it, 90s CD on a 4k heal and damage negation while in beastmode is not worth a GM trait. It would be one you take because there is nothing better that suits your build.

borya.2964:

shadowpass.4236:

A 4k heal and a small amount of protection on a 90 second cooldown is definitely NOT worth a grandmaster trait. Even a warrior’s is in the master tier.

Berserk last 15 sec, you can stay in Beast Mode the time you want.

You can use your entire health bar to fight while in Beast Mode and wait for the trait to proc to use both your heal and SoS you especially saved and go again in BM 10 sec later to use Defy Pain from your bear skill (you can have two bears) etc…

Come on, don’t ask pure cancer.

I don’t understand what the duration of our Beastmode has compared to Berserk to do with justifying a massively underwhelming trait on a long cooldown.

It’s still reeeaaalllly bad no matter how you put it.

Also, who said anything about getting Defy Pain from bears?

Cant compare similar abilities/traits between 2 professions. Berserker warrior after taking fatal blow, and gain the heal, will have hard time to go back to full hp. Ranger from 3k hp can get to full hp on several builds in no time.

LughLongArm.5460:

Cant compare similar abilities/traits between 2 professions. Berserker warrior after taking fatal blow, and gain the heal, will have hard time to go back to full hp. Ranger from 3k hp can get to full hp on several builds in no time.

That 3k hp is honestly nothing though. Most won’t even realize it even triggered.

Let’s say you’re in Soulbeast and are taking a massive amount of spike damage (both physical and condi), that 3k heal and protection won’t save you at all.

If it were something like, “While in Beastmode, if you would be downed you instead negate all incoming damage for 3 seconds, fall out of Beastmode, and recover health.” It would probably be worth it.

shadowpass.4236:

LughLongArm.5460:

Cant compare similar abilities/traits between 2 professions. Berserker warrior after taking fatal blow, and gain the heal, will have hard time to go back to full hp. Ranger from 3k hp can get to full hp on several builds in no time.

That 3k hp is honestly nothing though. Most won’t even realize it even triggered.

Let’s say you’re in Soulbeast and are taking a massive amount of spike damage (both physical and condi), that 3k heal and protection won’t save you at all.

If it were something like, “While in Beastmode, if you would be downed you instead negate all incoming damage for 3 seconds, fall out of Beastmode, and recover health.” It would probably be worth it.

It may be true, I will try it out and comment.

shadowpass.4236:

borya.2964:

shadowpass.4236:

A 4k heal and a small amount of protection on a 90 second cooldown is definitely NOT worth a grandmaster trait. Even a warrior’s is in the master tier.

Berserk last 15 sec, you can stay in Beast Mode the time you want.

You can use your entire health bar to fight while in Beast Mode and wait for the trait to proc to use both your heal and SoS you especially saved and go again in BM 10 sec later to use Defy Pain from your bear skill (you can have two bears) etc…

Come on, don’t ask pure cancer.

I don’t understand what the duration of our Beastmode has compared to Berserk to do with justifying a massively underwhelming trait on a long cooldown.

It’s still reeeaaalllly bad no matter how you put it.

Also, who said anything about getting Defy Pain from bears?

The duration is important, a warrior need to go strategicly in Berserk Mode 15 sec before to die for the trait to proc, timing matters. YOU can go in Beast Mode and fight all day long and simply wait for the trait to proc, cuz you know it will happen, see, easy way, no timing needed.

Defy Pain from bears means you can have double invul while in beast Mode, just saying. You can have SoS too.

If you got nothing to use after the trait proc (block, dodges, evades, stealth, heal, cleans, movement skills, break stun, invul etc) whereas YOU know the trait will proc (you may have an icon to help you), then you deserve to die.

I keep thinking that you’re asking pure cancer, passive defensive traits are terrible.

LughLongArm.5460:

Cant compare similar abilities/traits between 2 professions.

The Ranger trait Natural Vigor got nerfed and their reason was because it was stronger then the Engineer trait.

Levetty.1279:

LughLongArm.5460:

Cant compare similar abilities/traits between 2 professions.

The Ranger trait Natural Vigor got nerfed and their reason was because it was stronger then the Engineer trait.

When they nerfed natural vigot it was when they nerfed all endurance regen skills and traits across the board. Same way they did with stability not so long ago.

LughLongArm.5460:

Cant compare similar abilities/traits between 2 professions. Berserker warrior after taking fatal blow, and gain the heal, will have hard time to go back to full hp. Ranger from 3k hp can get to full hp on several builds in no time.

You’re looking at this as though the expansion won’t include a massive balance patch as well as upgrades for everyone, not just ranger.

That 3k health could be just 1 auto attack from 1200 range on the rifle thief for all we know. Considering how overtuned staff is, it wouldn’t surprise me at all.

Wondering if your pet is dead if you can even go into beastmode. If not, imagine if both are dead. 45-60s of no beastmode? That would be 45-60s where you can’t even get the benefit of Eternal Bond. Warrior would never have that issue. They would have gone through multiple cycles of Berserk mode.

We used to be able to rez our pets but that was squashed when players complained of targeting issues when your pet was above an ally you wanted to rez. We were never compensated for that change.

LughLongArm.5460:

Levetty.1279:

LughLongArm.5460:

Cant compare similar abilities/traits between 2 professions.

The Ranger trait Natural Vigor got nerfed and their reason was because it was stronger then the Engineer trait.

When they nerfed natural vigot it was when they nerfed all endurance regen skills and traits across the board. Same way they did with stability not so long ago.

No it was back when Devs sometimes posted on the forum. They nerfed Natural Vigor, we complained and a Dev posted saying it was being done because it was a minor trait that was as good as Engies GM.

The forum has no search feature so I can’t prove you are lying but we all know you are.

Levetty.1279:

LughLongArm.5460:

Levetty.1279:

LughLongArm.5460:

Cant compare similar abilities/traits between 2 professions.

The Ranger trait Natural Vigor got nerfed and their reason was because it was stronger then the Engineer trait.

When they nerfed natural vigot it was when they nerfed all endurance regen skills and traits across the board. Same way they did with stability not so long ago.

No it was back when Devs sometimes posted on the forum. They nerfed Natural Vigor, we complained and a Dev posted saying it was being done because it was a minor trait that was as good as Engies GM.

The forum has no search feature so I can’t prove you are lying but we all know you are.

Lying? Are you serious? Do you think I’m invested in anything regarding this topic? The vigor thing is not even part of the discussion. You can pick million and one examples in the game of similar abilities/traits with different power levels between different classes in the game.
Why Ride the Lightning is 30 sec CD and Ancestral Grace is 18 sec CD? I gave the same answer to Ele that asked this once on PVP forum, you cant compare similar skills between classes.

And just to prove a point- the natural vigr nerf, patch notes.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2013-12-10#Ranger_2

I’m waiting for you to apologize.

LughLongArm.5460:

…Why Ride the Lightning is 30 sec CD and Ancestral Grace is 18 sec CD? I gave the same answer to Ele that asked this once on PVP forum, you cant compare similar skills between classes.

Ele skills have a bit longer cooldown usually, most likely because they have access to twice as many as us in any given build, actually more.

LughLongArm.5460:

Why Ride the Lightning is 30 sec CD and Ancestral Grace is 18 sec CD? I gave the same answer to Ele that asked this once on PVP forum, you cant compare similar skills between classes.

Probably because the two aren’t anything alike aside from moving you 1200 units?
Might as well ask ancestral grace to have the same cooldown as swoop.

Also, a major part of the reason that RtL got hit hard with a cooldown nerf was because people were using it to zip around on an ele that evidently wasn’t really intended. Which is why it has the “half cooldown if connects” effect.

Rangers are supposed to be a hard to catch class, ele’s not so much.

Substance E.4852:

Probably because the two aren’t anything alike aside from moving you 1200 units?
Might as well ask ancestral grace to have the same cooldown as swoop.

I’ve always wanted to know why Swoop was 1100 distance and no other long-distanced travel skill has that number (usually 1200). Not a big deal, though. Devs be devs.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Substance E.4852:

Probably because the two aren’t anything alike aside from moving you 1200 units?
Might as well ask ancestral grace to have the same cooldown as swoop.

I’ve always wanted to know why Swoop was 1100 distance and no other long-distanced travel skill has that number (usually 1200). Not a big deal, though. Devs be devs.

The only thing I can think of is they want 1200 to be the soft target limit of skills but Swoop moving us 1200 units would mean that we would stop at 1200 and then swing while moving us 1100 means we stop just short of a target at 1200 range and then hit them with a 100 range swipe.

LughLongArm.5460:

Levetty.1279:

LughLongArm.5460:

Levetty.1279:

LughLongArm.5460:

Cant compare similar abilities/traits between 2 professions.

The Ranger trait Natural Vigor got nerfed and their reason was because it was stronger then the Engineer trait.

When they nerfed natural vigot it was when they nerfed all endurance regen skills and traits across the board. Same way they did with stability not so long ago.

No it was back when Devs sometimes posted on the forum. They nerfed Natural Vigor, we complained and a Dev posted saying it was being done because it was a minor trait that was as good as Engies GM.

The forum has no search feature so I can’t prove you are lying but we all know you are.

Lying? Are you serious? Do you think I’m invested in anything regarding this topic? The vigor thing is not even part of the discussion. You can pick million and one examples in the game of similar abilities/traits with different power levels between different classes in the game.
Why Ride the Lightning is 30 sec CD and Ancestral Grace is 18 sec CD? I gave the same answer to Ele that asked this once on PVP forum, you cant compare similar skills between classes.

They nerfed the trait and then a Dev posted saying outright that it was because it is as good as a Engie GM trait. Directly comparing skills/traits between Ranger and a different class is now fair game as far as I am concerned. Go ask them to nerf Grace or buff RtL.

GUFF.5692:

Wondering if your pet is dead if you can even go into beastmode. If not, imagine if both are dead. 45-60s of no beastmode? That would be 45-60s where you can’t even get the benefit of Eternal Bond. Warrior would never have that issue. They would have gone through multiple cycles of Berserk mode.

We used to be able to rez our pets but that was squashed when players complained of targeting issues when your pet was above an ally you wanted to rez. We were never compensated for that change.

You’re a terrible ranger if both of your pets are dead and on CD. Heal your friends, man.

CETheLucid.3964:

GUFF.5692:

Wondering if your pet is dead if you can even go into beastmode. If not, imagine if both are dead. 45-60s of no beastmode? That would be 45-60s where you can’t even get the benefit of Eternal Bond. Warrior would never have that issue. They would have gone through multiple cycles of Berserk mode.

We used to be able to rez our pets but that was squashed when players complained of targeting issues when your pet was above an ally you wanted to rez. We were never compensated for that change.

You’re a terrible ranger if both of your pets are dead and on CD. Heal your friends, man.

To be fair it’s only happened to me in pvp while using emphatic Bond and getting condi spiked twice hard within 10-20s of each other. I usually always have natural healing slotted which helps but it has still happened. Fight against great players using condi burst builds and it can happen for sure. Condi can have some serious spike potential.

It has never been a problem for me in PVE. Only one pet sometimes dies which means I wasn’t paying attention.

GUFF.5692:

CETheLucid.3964:

GUFF.5692:

Wondering if your pet is dead if you can even go into beastmode. If not, imagine if both are dead. 45-60s of no beastmode? That would be 45-60s where you can’t even get the benefit of Eternal Bond. Warrior would never have that issue. They would have gone through multiple cycles of Berserk mode.

We used to be able to rez our pets but that was squashed when players complained of targeting issues when your pet was above an ally you wanted to rez. We were never compensated for that change.

You’re a terrible ranger if both of your pets are dead and on CD. Heal your friends, man.

To be fair it’s only happened to me in pvp while using emphatic Bond and getting condi spiked twice hard within 10-20s of each other. I usually always have natural healing slotted which helps but it has still happened. Fight against great players using condi burst builds and it can happen for sure. Condi can have some serious spike potential.

It has never been a problem for me in PVE. Only one pet sometimes dies which means I wasn’t paying attention.

Sounds about right. Carry on.

Substance E.4852:

Wondrouswall.7169:

Substance E.4852:

Probably because the two aren’t anything alike aside from moving you 1200 units?
Might as well ask ancestral grace to have the same cooldown as swoop.

I’ve always wanted to know why Swoop was 1100 distance and no other long-distanced travel skill has that number (usually 1200). Not a big deal, though. Devs be devs.

The only thing I can think of is they want 1200 to be the soft target limit of skills but Swoop moving us 1200 units would mean that we would stop at 1200 and then swing while moving us 1100 means we stop just short of a target at 1200 range and then hit them with a 100 range swipe.

That makes sense. Reminds me of Rocket Boots then, like how it’s 900 overall distance but the range is 600, since the last 300 range is the landing roll.

So, anyone know if this “if you would be downed” bit means that you’d also be affected by the condi reset you’d get if you’d been downed?

Just idle curiosity, I’ve never played with berserker or anything, but if it functions as a condi clear/condi reset too…

GUFF.5692:

Wondering if your pet is dead if you can even go into beastmode. If not, imagine if both are dead. 45-60s of no beastmode? That would be 45-60s where you can’t even get the benefit of Eternal Bond. Warrior would never have that issue. They would have gone through multiple cycles of Berserk mode.

We used to be able to rez our pets but that was squashed when players complained of targeting issues when your pet was above an ally you wanted to rez. We were never compensated for that change.

Can’t you activate beastmode to save your pet from dying? Though you have to have good reflexes to pull it off.

Rashagar.8349:

So, anyone know if this “if you would be downed” bit means that you’d also be affected by the condi reset you’d get if you’d been downed?

Just idle curiosity, I’ve never played with berserker or anything, but if it functions as a condi clear/condi reset too…

The Warrior version doesn’t act as a condi clear, no, so I doubt this would :/

Something I would like to point out to everybody in this topic in general though;

We don’t know if Warriors trait is going to be hit in the balance patch before expac, for starters, and we also only have the PvP version of this skill if it happens to be skill split.