Explain to me how Axe is a "hybrid" weapon
It’s a condi weapon. Anet doesn’t know what they are talking about. MH Axe has never been used for power and never will be.
Guild Leader of Favorable Winds [Wind]
If it was on another class it would be a hybrid. Since its Ranger the condi porton is the only bit not being kitten by pets.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
this happened when i read the patch notes.
Every single time.
(edited by anduriell.6280)
Anyone know which gear set ANET is using to produce Hybrid DPS benchmarks?
At various points in balance patches, axe has actually been more power damaging than swords, depending on the bounces and might stacks. Also when cele was a thing and before druid came out, I used axe as a hybrid weapon in PvP.
For a while Rom was using mainhand axe on druid for the weakness. I can’t remember if that was before or after cele was removed.
The buff isn’t going to hurt anything even if you don’t want to use it.
It might not be a bad buff for some sort of tanky zerg druid using offhand warhorn. I don’t know, I’m not into zerg builds very much.
It’s an hybrid weapon to anet because there is no condition attached to the AA.
Back during the Celestial meta, Ranger’s go to weapon sets were Axe/Dagger and Sword/Torch.
Back at launch, Axe had a power based auto with no utility besides the bouncing, a heavily condi tilted splitblade and a winter’s bite that didn’t inflict bleed. Since then it is one of the few weapons in the game that has maintained its identity as a hybrid weapon. By being a hybrid weapon, it has value for builds using all our off-hand weapons.
At present, axe is our condition damage weapon of choice, simply because it is our highest damage mainhand for a condi build (as you would expect since its only competition is our pure power damage sword). The real heavy lifting is done by the torch and Quickdraw.
It is also worth remembering, despite Viper’s being the optimal stat set for condition damage, it has plenty of power built in to take advantage of any power buffs to our hybrid weapon.
“There, it’s dead and it’s never coming back!” – Famous last words
Axe also stacks Might, enhancing hybrid damage output. Likewise, the Axe trait improves ferocity, which helps either axe’s damage.
The axe at one time had two bounces and could out dps lb (when facing two or more targets like another ranger). While the ranger core regards this weapon as condi it rivaled and at times surpassed our main power range weapon ( longbow).
We need to not try to pigeon whole weapons in merely power or condi range or melee, defensive or offensive. The fact that condi scales better on ranger than power doesn’t mean we must dismiss the power component of this weapon.
everyone should fear becoming mentally clouded and obsessed with one small section of truth.
Taking honed axes and quick draw means you could dish out 20s of weakness within 4 seconds in a 240 radius. You just need to be able to prevent it from being cleared. I think it would synergize really nicely with a trapper build.
You could take a vipers amulet and also take wilting strike for an additional access to weakness.
Bad Elementalist
I was actually thinking, this update makes me want to run staff + a/d on a menders druid in PvP. Axe gets you some mild might, weakness, chill, and a reasonable ranged autotattack, plus the new power damage on 2 and 3 skills.
That’s a very reasonable matchup to the movement, evade and poison on sword.
I think they view it as a hybrid weapon because the Axe/Torch build uses Viper stats, not Trailblazer, Rabid, or Dire. Viper is a hybrid stat set. Condi and Power high. I’ve never seen anyone use trailblazer, rabid, or dire, unless it was for WvW.
also, Carrion and Sinister are also Hybrid sets.
Edit: should have just finished reading thread. Some of you have made my point for me already.
(edited by bearshaman.3421)
That doesn’t make sense that they would base it as a hybrid off of armor stats. It was hybrid at launch when all we had were Dire, Rabid, and Carrion.
It’s a hybrid weapon, but what it needs is a run through the purity of purpose filter on ricochet so it’s a 1-handed ranged full-condition weapon.
For pete’s sake. I’d be up for a bit of self-synergy on that weapon like what Gee added to Necro’s main-hand dagger or Karl did to Thief’s shortbow.
If they could just apply the skill 2&3 damage increase to all modes and have Ricochet bleed foes for like 3s when it strikes a chilled foe, it would work really well with Winter’s Bite and make that AOE effect on Honed Axes worth more the while.
A change like that could bring back the frost Ranger build and give Frost Trap a niche use. Pets like Snow Leopard, Alpine Wolf, Frost Drake, and Polar Bear (well, maybe not since its F2 cooldown is pretty absurd) would have a use without ever being touched.
It could really add some options from multiple angles… which means it will most likely never happen. :|
Will update once Path of Fire releases.
(edited by Wondrouswall.7169)
GW1 was rife with limited/specific synergy and I really kind of miss that.
That doesn’t make sense that they would base it as a hybrid off of armor stats. It was hybrid at launch when all we had were Dire, Rabid, and Carrion.
It’s a hybrid weapon, but what it needs is a run through the purity of purpose filter on ricochet so it’s a 1-handed ranged full-condition weapon.
For pete’s sake. I’d be up for a bit of self-synergy on that weapon like what Gee added to Necro’s main-hand dagger or Karl did to Thief’s shortbow.
If they could just apply the skill 2&3 damage increase to all modes and have Ricochet bleed foes for like 3s when it strikes a chilled foe, it would work really well with Winter’s Bite and make that AOE effect on Honed Axes worth more the while.
A change like that could bring back the frost Ranger build and give Frost Trap a niche use. Pets like Snow Leopard, Alpine Wolf, Frost Drake, and Polar Bear (well, maybe not since its F2 cooldown is pretty absurd) would have a use without ever being touched.
It could really add some options from multiple angles… which means it will most likely never happen. :|
(carrion is also hybrid, but that’s irrelevant really.) I agree with you that axe doesn’t have any self-synergy, and that change would be pretty good, since axe is the closest thing to a MH condi weapon (sword doesn’t cut it for me. Dagger also seems like an unwanted outlier, I never see anyone use it, just cuz torch is so good.
Dagger also seems like an unwanted outlier, I never see anyone use it, just cuz torch is so good.
Dagger has been in the PvP meta since launch.
Hey so I was playing around with a build that involved might stacking and its damage is pretty good if you time it so that you get 25 stacks of might. It might be a decent alternative to longbow?
Bad Elementalist
Like why does hybrid for ranger means everything sucks while for other classes hybrid means kitten at condi,defense and power (cough warrior’s mace cough)
Like why does hybrid for ranger means everything sucks while for other classes hybrid means kitten at condi,defense and power (cough warrior’s mace cough)
Because rangers core design is to be strong vs single targets while losing out on some defensive mechanisms other classes have.
Bad Elementalist
What defenses do Rangers not have? They have just about every type of defense in game.
What defenses do Rangers not have? They have just about every type of defense in game.
I was referring to the axe mh weapon, no blocks or evades or movement skills, just soft CC,
Dagger also seems like an unwanted outlier, I never see anyone use it, just cuz torch is so good.
Dagger has been in the PvP meta since launch.
Wouldn’t know that, sorry. I don’t pvp. Kinda thought this was a pve convo, given that it was about axe.
Like why does hybrid for ranger means everything sucks while for other classes hybrid means kitten at condi,defense and power (cough warrior’s mace cough)
Because rangers core design is to be strong vs single targets while losing out on some defensive mechanisms other classes have.
I really don’t think it was designed with that in mind, since ranger only has an okay burst for power damage, (has some of the most pathetic coefficents with power) I think when they designed it they were like well let’s add a little bit of everything and it ended up sucking ass at anything that needed a specialized role (hence hated on in pre hot content and always looked over for organized wvw) granted this jack of all trades lends itslef to 1v1s well since you usually have some tools to fight with, and that’s why Cele lends itself to ranger so well. However hybrid barely works cept for niche stuff, it just bugs me when with other classes do to fun trait synergy you can use a weapon for either condi or power and go ham crazy
Like why does hybrid for ranger means everything sucks while for other classes hybrid means kitten at condi,defense and power (cough warrior’s mace cough)
Because rangers core design is to be strong vs single targets while losing out on some defensive mechanisms other classes have.
I really don’t think it was designed with that in mind, since ranger only has an okay burst for power damage, (has some of the most pathetic coefficents with power) I think when they designed it they were like well let’s add a little bit of everything and it ended up sucking ass at anything that needed a specialized role (hence hated on in pre hot content and always looked over for organized wvw) granted this jack of all trades lends itslef to 1v1s well since you usually have some tools to fight with, and that’s why Cele lends itself to ranger so well. However hybrid barely works cept for niche stuff, it just bugs me when with other classes do to fun trait synergy you can use a weapon for either condi or power and go ham crazy
I am saying it based off their what ANET stated I think 4 years ago. They actually intended ele to be a jack of all trades and ranger to have consistent damage, not necessarily good burst damage though.
Bad Elementalist
Dagger also seems like an unwanted outlier, I never see anyone use it, just cuz torch is so good.
Dagger has been in the PvP meta since launch.
Wouldn’t know that, sorry. I don’t pvp. Kinda thought this was a pve convo, given that it was about axe.
Well the OP mentioned all 3 modes, and the change that inspired the thread was only for PvP. Also axe has had its fair share of the PvP and WvW metas.
At any rate, dagger doesn’t need to be useful in PvE in the same way warrior hammer doesn’t need to be useful there. Most professions have some PvP specific weapons.
(Although once upon a time dagger was used for Lupi solos.)
Dagger also seems like an unwanted outlier, I never see anyone use it, just cuz torch is so good.
Dagger has been in the PvP meta since launch.
Wouldn’t know that, sorry. I don’t pvp. Kinda thought this was a pve convo, given that it was about axe.
Well the OP mentioned all 3 modes, and the change that inspired the thread was only for PvP. Also axe has had its fair share of the PvP and WvW metas.
At any rate, dagger doesn’t need to be useful in PvE in the same way warrior hammer doesn’t need to be useful there. Most professions have some PvP specific weapons.
(Although once upon a time dagger was used for Lupi solos.)
Interesting. I didn’t really think of weapons as being more for a particular game type. I would be curious to hear more about what weapons are more for different game types, but don’t want to hijack the thread. PM me?
Interesting. I didn’t really think of weapons as being more for a particular game type. I would be curious to hear more about what weapons are more for different game types, but don’t want to hijack the thread. PM me?
It’s a valid point for the thread, since truly hybrid axe wouldn’t be that important for PvE (who cares about power even though you’re on “hybrid” viper stats? It just ups the DPS a tick.)
The answer to your query is really obvious if you’ve done any competitive. Any weapon that has things like evades, heavy CC, self sustain, heavy support, etc.
If you’re a PvEr and have ever found a weapon useless, it’s almost certainly a competitive weapon. All 4 classes’ shield, mesmer torch, thief short bow, etc. etc.
Taking honed axes and quick draw means you could dish out 20s of weakness within 4 seconds in a 240 radius.
Throw an axe to chill your foe. Your pet’s next attack inflicts weakness.
ANET keeps insisting that MH Axe is a “hybrid” weapon. Up until now, I’ve only seen it being used as a condi weapon in both game modes.
Is there a super-secret build we are unaware of, that takes advantage of Hybrid damage the same way there is a secret build that allows Mesmers to benefit from Might on their phantasms?
Please enlighten me about this so-called Axe build that ANET knows so much about that we don’t?
Number 1 on axe boosts both power and condition damage.
The other two skills are purely condition related.
So, as one out of three, hybrid would be a stretch if it weren’t for the stacking that #1 can do which helps, especially with boosts, food and tools.
Like why does hybrid for ranger means everything sucks while for other classes hybrid means kitten at condi,defense and power (cough warrior’s mace cough)
Because rangers core design is to be strong vs single targets while losing out on some defensive mechanisms other classes have.
I really don’t think it was designed with that in mind, since ranger only has an okay burst for power damage, (has some of the most pathetic coefficents with power) I think when they designed it they were like well let’s add a little bit of everything and it ended up sucking ass at anything that needed a specialized role (hence hated on in pre hot content and always looked over for organized wvw) granted this jack of all trades lends itslef to 1v1s well since you usually have some tools to fight with, and that’s why Cele lends itself to ranger so well. However hybrid barely works cept for niche stuff, it just bugs me when with other classes do to fun trait synergy you can use a weapon for either condi or power and go ham crazy
To get context, you have to look at the Engineer as a Hybrid class. Even when condi focused, it incorperates a lot of otherwise power centered tools because of its general utility. The same goes with Power builds utilizing Condi kits for its utility. Engineer does Hybrid design RIGHT, because they made sure every kit, including the weapons, had something useful to nearly every build you can think of. Flame thrower can be a condi weapon by combining the bleed-on-hit trait of Firearm…. which itself also has Juggernaut trait that generates might for Flamer thrower. And this is all despite the majority of its damage being physical. The Pistol used to have a trait that pierces, enabling the shatter shot explosion (again physical) damage to trigger multiple times. Tool Kit has a physical AA, a high damage + confusion crowbar attack, and a universally helpful block. Elixir gun has condi damage, but mostly use for cleansing; yet skill 4 is physical damage.
Interesting. I didn’t really think of weapons as being more for a particular game type. I would be curious to hear more about what weapons are more for different game types, but don’t want to hijack the thread. PM me?
It’s a valid point for the thread, since truly hybrid axe wouldn’t be that important for PvE (who cares about power even though you’re on “hybrid” viper stats? It just ups the DPS a tick.)
The answer to your query is really obvious if you’ve done any competitive. Any weapon that has things like evades, heavy CC, self sustain, heavy support, etc.
If you’re a PvEr and have ever found a weapon useless, it’s almost certainly a competitive weapon. All 4 classes’ shield, mesmer torch, thief short bow, etc. etc.
I hadn’t thought of those as competitive weapons, so much as well-rounded ones from a tactical perspective. I had noticed that some were more damage and others covered a wide range of contingencies. I suppose those can also be important to pvp. (and yes I am a pver.)