Guild Wars 2

The title might as well could have been : Melee Ranger paradox?

The whole post is basically more like a question, or more like i wish to hear your opinions on the concept of “melee ranger”. Your opinions, thoughts, suggestions and ideas.

First of all i must say , i rejoined only a few weeks ago, since friends started playing. I fast leveled my Elementalist, and till i was waiting for them run some Spvp rounds, and realized how i love it. So i decided to roll a third alt besides Warrior.

First i started a Necro, but i think its not for me, i dont like death shroud. Then i saw a thief , that looks like the assasin from gw1 with the celestial armor and new haircuts….amazing, so i started one, at 20 ish i popped spvp and run some rounds, but got 2 shot mostly…sure it has an excellent damage potential, like Warrior, and might even be tanky if played well or dunno, but i dont think stealth is my play style. I prefer the Gw1 style “assasin”.

Then i saw my Wallpaper and found it inspiring. ( under the post) So i came to the option of running an Ranger.
It might not be able to use dual dagger or sword ( that would look really awesome), but can use 2handed sword (that i dont really like trough, the skill set and animation is not for my taste), but can also use Longbow, that does look really good. Has a pet…cool to collect them (i guess, not much of a pokemon fan).

So i came to the guess : Is Sword- Dagger Ranger viable at all? If so, how squishy is ranger in melee?
I am sure all of you have differing opinions. Some might say its useless, while others might say its the only viable, but i am still interested in your opinions.

Sword dagger is definitely viable. Poison Master/Survival of the Fittest is probably the direction you want to go.

I don’t pvp a lot but I use Sword/torch and shortbow
Think Condi Dmg+Dagger poison+Torch Burn

Long bow is only for pure power builds as far as I know so LB/GS or LB/Sword-Axe
If you want to be more tanky drop poison master and bring Bark skin or Emphatic Bond.

Rangers tend to be pretty tank just because they are practically required to go down defensive trait paths to get access to decent condi removal.

I’m killing people with LB and GS in wvw and I’ve been told that it sucks because, well, it just sucks without any reasoning.

I’ve also played with GS and Sword + Dagger (or torch) on a condition build with traps and have been told the same when they asked what build it is.

I’ve played with Axe + Dagger on a power build and that sucked too.

The point is, that some people might tell you different things. Most on the forums just complain about rangers, so no point in listening to them. Those three builds are viable, because people were conceived. For the first, second and third, they thought I was a Bearbow, Melee power glass and Condition build.

Then there are the very skilled players. There can be very skilled thieves, so good that they literally evade every one of your skills other than the basic one.

One you might want to listen to is Durzlla because you will surely get an unbiased answer.

I’ve noticed that playing different against real players is part of the key to success because it’s something unexpected. Ranger Hilt-Bash is almost always followed by Maul.

There are also some combos which you can do with your pets. For example, the jungle spider has a family skill that immobilises and a special (F2) skill that immobilises too which can be chained almost always. Pets have a pattern, which tells them when to use their skills.

For melee “alone”, i.e. without any other factor playing a role, you can do different things. Make sure you can use your heal by leaping away from your enemy, heal, then leap back into the fight. There is just enough time for that. #3 and #4 are both evades and apply poison, so you can play with that.

On GS, you can double evade by turning away from the enemy while casting the third attack. It’s easy to do with NPC’s but it’s difficult with real players. It pays off to do so, though.

TL;DR
Durzlla will probably give you a good answer.
I would say that a ranger is as squishy as the player makes it. A top tier skilled glass thief “isn’t” as squishy as someone who only played a week. Same goes for any other class (except warrior maybe )

This is a viable poison master build I use in pvp (I use a similar build while roaming in wvw). I don’t think it’ll serve you as well in pve — zerkbow is probably the way to go there — but if you’re looking for a build to try that is heavy melee and sustain with tons of poison and bleed then this would work for you.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQRAsf3YjEqUzaJLGsw1aABhaVA0uGS2u2dPcDfdGrkyMJ-TJxCwAiLDA4IAIc/hJPAAA

edit- whoops, replace quickening zephyr with lightning reflexes. stun/immob break /w vigor op. =)

~ Kovu

I think honestly, that sword in mainhand enables any offhand for a power build whatever one you have, though dagger is probably better for a hybrid (power/precision/condition) or a condition setup (condition/defensive stats). It is by no means useless for power though, since you also gain defense from it and a cripple. The main damage comes from sword, anyway.

In my opinion the ranger conceptually is one of the best I have ever seen in GW2, but it has its quirks and things that need looking at (like most classes tbh :P) like the ranged side being a little weaker even if you take their relative safety into account – not always but… more often.

Another tip could be, how about looking through the axe gallery on the GW2 wiki and finding an Axe offhand look that is similiar to that of a sword? That way you could feel more like that dualwield sword character you were having an image of. It gives you another option, and it is a fun offhand.

Ranger Greatsword is one of my favorite weapons in game; it’s a complex weapon to use in a sense where it provides more than just 5 random skills placed together with the intention of killing the enemy as soon as possible. It provides so much (Burst, Leap, Evade (on auto attack!), block, long range, knockback, stun, daze) all on one weapon.
To use it successfully it makes you think how to use it. Do I use my block to block the ranged attacks or to knock the enemy out of position with a kick(get in melee range) or do I save it for the enemy as they try to run away to hit them with a ranged attack (that’s all the same skill #4). It’s not a perfect weapon in any means and it doesn’t compare in DPS as say a warrior GS with 100 Blades, but it’s the last guy standing that wins the fight not the guy that hits the hardest.
GS Rant aside…

Melee ranger CAN be viable there are some great builds out there. Longbow/SB shouldn’t be neglected either.

Btw: what’s the wallpaper from?

OP, have you seen this series?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzQpiBmG6tA

solrik.6028:

I’m killing people with LB and GS in wvw and I’ve been told that it sucks because, well, it just sucks without any reasoning.

I’ve also played with GS and Sword + Dagger (or torch) on a condition build with traps and have been told the same when they asked what build it is.

I’ve played with Axe + Dagger on a power build and that sucked too.

The point is, that some people might tell you different things. Most on the forums just complain about rangers, so no point in listening to them. Those three builds are viable, because people were conceived. For the first, second and third, they thought I was a Bearbow, Melee power glass and Condition build.

Then there are the very skilled players. There can be very skilled thieves, so good that they literally evade every one of your skills other than the basic one.

One you might want to listen to is Durzlla because you will surely get an unbiased answer.

I’ve noticed that playing different against real players is part of the key to success because it’s something unexpected. Ranger Hilt-Bash is almost always followed by Maul.

There are also some combos which you can do with your pets. For example, the jungle spider has a family skill that immobilises and a special (F2) skill that immobilises too which can be chained almost always. Pets have a pattern, which tells them when to use their skills.

For melee “alone”, i.e. without any other factor playing a role, you can do different things. Make sure you can use your heal by leaping away from your enemy, heal, then leap back into the fight. There is just enough time for that. #3 and #4 are both evades and apply poison, so you can play with that.

On GS, you can double evade by turning away from the enemy while casting the third attack. It’s easy to do with NPC’s but it’s difficult with real players. It pays off to do so, though.

TL;DR
Durzlla will probably give you a good answer.
I would say that a ranger is as squishy as the player makes it. A top tier skilled glass thief “isn’t” as squishy as someone who only played a week. Same goes for any other class (except warrior maybe )

the ppl that tell you the builds sucks play mostly tpvp i guess, where the builds truly suck.. it doesnt matter that u beat noobs with it. and durzlla with his/her little amount of games is not in the spot to tell different stories. oidmetala for example plays on top in eu leaderboard.
what u play in pve doesnt matter.

@op
1-hand sword is your best option if u wanna go dmg. coupled with dagger you are somewhat evasive in melee fight if u master aa-self root.

This thread makes me want a cape and a off hand sword for Ranger.

Played right a sword/dagger ranger is very hard to kill. Just with this weapon set you can go condi, zerk, trapper or just the old fashioned bm bunker. All are effective but the skill ceeling for melee ranger is pretty high (sword auto roots you, you need to lear to manage your pet cd, use utilities wisely). Otherwise the weapon set is viable and versatile

I’d even say more and make a slight hyperbole:

Melee Ranger is almost only viable spec

Sword/Dagger ranger is pretty sweet. The over 100% possible poison uptime plays to the Ranger’s greatest strength of sustained damage. The sword is our highest damage output weapon and the attack chain is hard to escape from due to the crazy cripple uptime. Our pets love that cripple, because normally they have a little trouble hitting a moving target, not so when it’s at half speed. The sword also has more dashes than is sane for any one weapon set, with the dagger you have a long range projectile and dashes on every other button. If you learn all the tricks? The sword is easily our strongest weapon.

A good compliment to the sword is the shortbow. It’s a condition heavy weapon that also has the capability of 100% poison uptime. Unlike the sword it’s extremely simple, for max DPS use 1 on someone’s back and 4 if it’s off cooldown. The rest of the skills are utility, poison someone trying to heal with 2, make a gap with 3 and interrupt a key skill with 5.

My preferred complimentary weapon set though is Axe/Warhorn or Axe/Torch. The axe has one trait for it and it’s not even that great, so it’s the ranged weapon of choice for off-hand focused rangers and often greatsword rangers. The bows are definitely superior when traited for though and the shortbow is unbelievably strong for single target DPS if you can guarantee the bleeds. Warhorn provides a blast finisher and party support, the Torch is an excessively offensive condition weapon. The offhand axe isn’t amazing though.

Some people will also compliment sword with Longbow or strangely Greatsword, but I wouldn’t recommend either. The Longbow is better used as the focus of a build due to the power boost of its traits.

tl;dr? The sword is our most powerful weapon, both offensively and arguably defensively. The dagger works well with it for evasion and conditions. The shortbow is an easy to use weapon that can compliment it well, but the axe allows for an offhand focused ranger build.

I wouldn’t bash the axe offhand just like that. It is in my opinion the most damaging power offhand (with knockdown/interrupt/projectile reflect/aoe vulnerability/retaliation utility) except for warhorn in larger groups maybe, and it has more utility for sure than the warhorn. Its only drawback is when you have to hold off path of scars if a boss needs a timed CC, but that’s not a large issue.

hooma.9642:

the ppl that tell you the builds sucks play mostly tpvp i guess, where the builds truly suck.. it doesnt matter that u beat noobs with it. and durzlla with his/her little amount of games is not in the spot to tell different stories. oidmetala for example plays on top in eu leaderboard.
what u play in pve doesnt matter.

@op
1-hand sword is your best option if u wanna go dmg. coupled with dagger you are somewhat evasive in melee fight if u master aa-self root.

I find this a bit offending. Thanks for being another “That sucks, this sucks, you suck” person. “Beat noobs with it”, sorry, what? Where did you even get that from? I haven’t even posted a video.

I don’t care who is on the leaderboards. I’ve never heard of “oidmetala” but looking at his messages, he’s just complaining and complaining and complaining about rangers. How am I (are we) supposed to take someone’s words for ‘granted’ if the person can’t even capitalise “i” or punctuate just a litte.

I mentioned Durzlla because Durzlla always replies with something that makes sense and has a reason behind it.

notes:
doesnt → doesn’t
u → you
Words after dot → Capitalise the first word after the dot
If you are not fooling around, then please at least put some effort into what you type.

Oh and the thing about 1-h sword doing most damage. That comes from PvE, where one is able to just 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 the enemy creatures. DPS goes down once you start evading and using the awesome combo of 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 on a real enemy is the same as writing “I’m a free kill” in chat.

solrik.6028:

hooma.9642:

the ppl that tell you the builds sucks play mostly tpvp i guess, where the builds truly suck.. it doesnt matter that u beat noobs with it. and durzlla with his/her little amount of games is not in the spot to tell different stories. oidmetala for example plays on top in eu leaderboard.
what u play in pve doesnt matter.

@op
1-hand sword is your best option if u wanna go dmg. coupled with dagger you are somewhat evasive in melee fight if u master aa-self root.

I find this a bit offending. Thanks for being another “That sucks, this sucks, you suck” person. “Beat noobs with it”, sorry, what? Where did you even get that from? I haven’t even posted a video.

I don’t care who is on the leaderboards. I’ve never heard of “oidmetala” but looking at his messages, he’s just complaining and complaining and complaining about rangers. How am I (are we) supposed to take someone’s words for ‘granted’ if the person can’t even capitalise “i” or punctuate just a litte.

I mentioned Durzlla because Durzlla always replies with something that makes sense and has a reason behind it.

notes:
doesnt -> doesn’t
u -> you
Words after dot -> Capitalise the first word after the dot
If you are not fooling around, then please at least put some effort into what you type.

Oh and the thing about 1-h sword doing most damage. That comes from PvE, where one is able to just 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 the enemy creatures. DPS goes down once you start evading and using the awesome combo of 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 on a real enemy is the same as writing “I’m a free kill” in chat.

I think he was referring to lb/gs combo in tpvp which is true. That set is a gimmick set that really has no place in a team comp. Solo pvp sure go ahead I use that my self when I troll people, and please stop being a kitten grammar correcting people cause no one likes that consider that maybe hes typing in his phone

solrik.6028:

hooma.9642:

snip.

I find this a bit offending. Thanks for being another “That sucks, this sucks, you suck” person. “Beat noobs with it”, sorry, what? Where did you even get that from? I haven’t even posted a video.

I don’t care who is on the leaderboards. I’ve never heard of “oidmetala” but looking at his messages, he’s just complaining and complaining and complaining about rangers.

Most skilled tpvp players can just tell that your build sucks by looking at it if it’s tpvp build. Matter of experience.

The thing is, Tpvp has roles to fulfill and builds have to be adjusted to do exact things.
The game hasn’t really changed over 2 years. Many have just already tested possibilities. New “meta” builds in MMOs come up after an average of week, sometimes less.

As for higher ranked players – Many of them are the biggest complainers. Best example would be Helseth. He’s ranting and ragequitting all the time, but nobody can say that he’s not a beast Mesmer.

Rym.1469:

solrik.6028:

hooma.9642:

snip.

I find this a bit offending. Thanks for being another “That sucks, this sucks, you suck” person. “Beat noobs with it”, sorry, what? Where did you even get that from? I haven’t even posted a video.

I don’t care who is on the leaderboards. I’ve never heard of “oidmetala” but looking at his messages, he’s just complaining and complaining and complaining about rangers.

Most skilled tpvp players can just tell that your build sucks by looking at it if it’s tpvp build. Matter of experience.

The thing is, Tpvp has roles to fulfill and builds have to be adjusted to do exact things.
The game hasn’t really changed over 2 years. Many have just already tested possibilities. New “meta” builds in MMOs come up after an average of week, sometimes less.

As for higher ranked players – Many of them are the biggest complainers. Best example would be Helseth. He’s ranting and ragequitting all the time, but nobody can say that he’s not a beast Mesmer.

I can understand it if it’s “if it’s tpvp” but he just threw out a lot of assumptions. Some people from tpvp think that skilled WvW’ers are total idiots and vice versa.

It’s okay to talk about tpvp, but the op didn’t write that the thread is exclusively about tpvp or spvp.