Guild Wars 2

I was so excited for the release of HoT, with all the teasers we had and not knowing what our Profession would get! I was really hoping they’d finally make Ranger what it should be, a proper Ranged DPS Profession. But no, we got forced into another role entirely, healer.

Understand this, if I wanted to make a “healer” in this game, I would’ve chosen a Guardian. They’re more tanky, and have way more skills and weapon skills that are support-related before you even consider adding current Druid skills to what Guardians already have!

I specifically made a Ranger, because I like playing ranged DPS. That means using the Longbow, which has always had and still has, really poor DPS. Compare the sustained 8k DPS my fully Ascended Ranger does to the 32k DPS my Tempest does, and it’s really not a fair comparrison at all. This is why, I was so excited to get some new long-ranged skills to improve my DPS.

As it happens, I’m now forced into Druid healer or playing an entirely different profession alltogether. (Talking about Raids/Fractals). Or I’m forced into melee druid or condition etc. Not what I want to play, Longbow.

Ranger should have gotten the Dragonhunter skills, and Guardians should have gotten the Druid skills. Why on earth that was mixed up, I do not know.

But, since that will never change now, the least you can do is make Longbow DPS viable compared to other long-ranged Professions like Tempest etc.

Power Rangers ment for burst damage not sustain. It’s fine power buffer still is super good and offers that form of game play. Cides I’m sure the next elite spec will be offensive orirented. I’d argue that ranger/druid actually is one of the most versatile builds classes in the game right now. (Would be baddas if they buffed sword though since you can’t stick to your target anymore.)

Hell druid have us some much needed teamplay (I don’t care much for healing outside of raids and play a murder remorseless build in PvP and I love it. I bet you 5g the next elite spec will be the offensive gap we need

cough you know that you can find groups that don’t demand you play in a way you don’t like, right? I’d suggest hunting for them. Sounds like a good deal to me, finding a guild that won’t make you play in a way you don’t want to.

Rumor has it that we get dagger MH for the next xpac, in what will highly likely be a DPS oriented spec, finally freeing us from being “the” healer. (Despite other classes, looking at you ele, having some serious healing chops of their own.)

It’s awful. I do high level fractals mostly, and even when I switch to sword/axe to raise my DPS, I can’t last long in melee range since we have no blocks/reflects/etc in the meta builds. Even with that increased DPS, we’re dead last out of every single major build in the game : https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4v76gq/qt_updated_guides_and_dps_benchmarks_for_all/

On top of that, longbow builds up the avatar bar SO SLOWLY compared to using a staff. But I can’t even use a staff because I need the CC from my longbow. So I can’t even be a reliable healer.

I honestly don’t even join groups that already have a ranger because I know we likely won’t have enough DPS to win.

Not sure I can agree with this sentiment.

Ranger has never been more versatile and desireable over multiple modes than right now. Anything between condition ranger to healing druid is viable. Even longbow ranger still has it’s place. It is the safe ranged build it always was. A build that has always been about burst rather than high DPS.

You are asking for this to be changed in a way where a long range single target weapon such as longbow would be viable in instanced PvE? They could double the damage damage of every single skill, not even talking about the imbalance in PvP, WvW and Open World PvE, and people still would not desire you in their groups.

Druids are much more than a healing build. Rangers gained the ability to offensively buff their parties to a degree that makes up for the mediocre damage. That is why power druid with a longbow and sword/axe is one of the viable builds right now.
They made a good choice. They finally filled the supportive gap rangers have had for the longest time, rather than adding more to the single target dps niche.

I am not saying the general longbow (and greatsword for that matter) ranger damage shouldn’t be adjusted a little, but they simply can not go too crazy with it. Also, not a fan of reworking the weapon to include more AoE or ground targeted skills.

Our combat system simply does not revolve around ranged DPS pewpew. It forces people to stay in buff range, cleave enemies often, swap weapons and buff eachother. That is why one build can be perfect for solo play but rather underwhelming in party play. It is not as simple as making longbow viable by giving it damage equal to staff elementalists.
Quite on the contrary, people already started adding 3-4 rangers to their raid parties because of the great condition damage of condition rangers against unmoving targets. You’d now allow them to replace even more people, focused on power damage this time, with a safe and easy to play choice.
I could imagine something like this for VG (as an example):
1 condi PS, 1 Chrono, 1 condi druid, 1 condi ranger, 1 condi ranger
1 power PS, 1 Chrono, 1 power druid, 1 power ranger, 1 power ranger
Sounds like complete cheese to have these guys pewpew away on the boss while he is moving or while they do “greens”. People sometimes ask for damage close to a staff tempests without even considering how much those high numbers depend on the situation and the actual target. They would never come close to their peak numbers against a small moving target or would be forced to go melee to have decend damage with dagger/warhorn.

If you are doing only 8k DPS with a DPS ranger you are doing it wrong.
Also condi ranger is the 3rd highest DPS in game so

Agent Mulder.4531:

It’s awful. I do high level fractals mostly, and even when I switch to sword/axe to raise my DPS, I can’t last long in melee range since we have no blocks/reflects/etc in the meta builds. Even with that increased DPS, we’re dead last out of every single major build in the game : https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4v76gq/qt_updated_guides_and_dps_benchmarks_for_all/

On top of that, longbow builds up the avatar bar SO SLOWLY compared to using a staff. But I can’t even use a staff because I need the CC from my longbow. So I can’t even be a reliable healer.

I honestly don’t even join groups that already have a ranger because I know we likely won’t have enough DPS to win.

Uh…. Axe 5 is a reflect and Staff 5 is projectile blocking. Quick draw them if needed although the staff is often overkill.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAsXTnMqAtqgVsC2sCEtilFBb5yFAGcMHgw1AAeqeV3qA-ThRBAB4pHAgHAwV7PK/oU9HLOBAmpEEA-e
3 main differences between the meta build and what I run for casual fotm groups. Healing springs+trait = regen is all you need for AF build up. Primal Echoes is an aoe daze when going into CA (Don’t need staff equipped). Moment of clarity instead of steady focus. F5 and CA3 = 1.5 second aoe daze. Quickdraw CA3. GoE = 3 second aoe daze. Axe 4 is a decent pull to make sure all the mobs are grouped up for said aoe daze and blinds (which are basically blocks for the entire team). So no, you don’t need longbow 4 for CC. You should be perma CCing trash mobs and soloing break bars, especially with pet swapping.

Berserker meta druid = utility first not healing. Get some zealots/magi and camp staff if you want to heal. Also, look at an updated list for DPS ranking
http://qtfy.enjin.com/dps
Viper ranger is better than most.

3 very distinct play styles that are all viable. I wasn’t a ranger main before but I basically am now for PvE. I don’t WvW so much but PvP and WvW do have multiple successful builds that can be used as well in those modes.

In my opinion, Druid has killed Ranger as a class by making them a healing bot basically. Currently Warrior, Guard, Engi, Thief, Ele, Necro & Rev out dps Ranger… Hell, even Guardian is a better condi trapper than Ranger (PvP)..
Ever stepped in https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Test_of_Faith? Then you know what I’m talking about…

Druid needs to go as our elite spec! Why? Because Ranger as an archtype is already druidic by default:

Ranger archetype
———————————-
Rangers skills in books and games can include and are not limited to:

Skilled with the bow, usually because they use them so often for the hunting of wild animals.
They tend to be well versed in other forms of combat however, most notably dual-wielding short swords or long knives, although rangers prefer using ranged weapons, and their melee combat abilities often pale in comparison to other character classes such as a warrior or barbarian.
Throwing knives
Stealth
Climbing
Detecting or laying traps
Taming, calming or charming animals
Tracking and leaving no trail to be tracked
Knowledge of herbs for medical and poisonous uses
The art of healing (magical or medical) due to their self-reliance => DRUID!!
Land and nature related magic and enchantments or the ability to recognize them or resistance to them
Ability to move quickly through the forests due to their familiarity
Skilled in speaking the language of all creatures.
Skilled in training wild animals.

Let’s take Druid and move it the recycle bin. And let’s introduce: Shapeshifter! Transform into a werewolf or something along that line… Werewolf would make some sense from my PoV.. You absorb nature energy and unleash it in it’s most deadly and feared form… Never gonna happen but I would prefer that over kitten Druid!

Agent Mulder.4531:

It’s awful. I do high level fractals mostly, and even when I switch to sword/axe to raise my DPS, I can’t last long in melee range since we have no blocks/reflects/etc in the meta builds. Even with that increased DPS, we’re dead last out of every single major build in the game : https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4v76gq/qt_updated_guides_and_dps_benchmarks_for_all/

Perhaps you should consider one of:

Run a condi ranger or power ranger core build, instead of druid. Dedicate three trait lines to DPS instead of two.

Use something similar to the meta build, but with a few more defensive options, so that you don’t die so much.

Using the druid more to increase overall team DPS instead of focusing on personal DPS, which isn’t negligible, but also isn’t why the buff-bot druid is included in the “meta”.

Focusing more on healing builds with “zero DPS” target.

Azzara Nectum.1734:

Let’s take Druid and move it the recycle bin. And let’s introduce: Shapeshifter! Transform into a werewolf or something along that line… Werewolf would make some sense from my PoV.. You absorb nature energy and unleash it in it’s most deadly and feared form… Never gonna happen but I would prefer that over kitten Druid!

Well, that is kinda the thing that’s gonna happen in the next xpac — not so much that druid goes away, but that ranger is extremely unlikely to get a second support-focused elite, so … you should have something else to play.

Be thankful for Druid. You could have ended up like Engi with Scrapper.

If you recall, before HoT, the majority of Ranger players were being ostracized from (meta) dungeon groups because we “didn’t bring sufficient party support that another profession could bring better.” So, A-net heard our pleas and gave us the Druid spec; we are now about the best supporting profession in the game.

Next on the shopping list is a solid dps role. I urge you be to patient, as it will likely be coming next expansion.

Razor.9872:

If you recall, before HoT, the majority of Ranger players were being ostracized from (meta) dungeon groups because we “didn’t bring sufficient party support that another profession could bring better.” So, A-net heard our pleas and gave us the Druid spec; we are now about the best supporting profession in the game.

Next on the shopping list is a solid dps role. I urge you be to patient, as it will likely be coming next expansion.

Solid power DPS role. condi ranger builds are doing well in both theory and practice.

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Razor.9872:

If you recall, before HoT, the majority of Ranger players were being ostracized from (meta) dungeon groups because we “didn’t bring sufficient party support that another profession could bring better.” So, A-net heard our pleas and gave us the Druid spec; we are now about the best supporting profession in the game.

Next on the shopping list is a solid dps role. I urge you be to patient, as it will likely be coming next expansion.

Solid power DPS role. condi ranger builds are doing well in both theory and practice.

^ Yeah, true. That’s what I meant

Razor.9872:

If you recall, before HoT, the majority of Ranger players were being ostracized from (meta) dungeon groups because we “didn’t bring sufficient party support that another profession could bring better.” So, A-net heard our pleas and gave us the Druid spec; we are now about the best supporting profession in the game.

Next on the shopping list is a solid dps role. I urge you be to patient, as it will likely be coming next expansion.

That applied to PvP as well, where rangers were considered mainly as useless. I remember groaning when seeing 2 rangers in my team on a few occasions.

I, too, was initially disappointed when I first took a look at the druid line. Staff? Healing? As a new player I really wanted something to improve my LB pewpew power.

I quickly learned that heals/dps boost druid and condi druid are pretty amazing. It helps that I am a softie that never kicks the illiterate 400-achieve level 25 player from my “80s experienced” groups, so healing and dps boost to make up for party inexperience made heals druid essential for casual pve play. I decided to learn condi druid just for a change of pace, and now my viper druid setup is pretty much my main.

So yeah – I think the class is in a good place, and the likely (or at least hopeful) addition of a power dps elite spec in the future should round things out.

The problem is we are THE only decent healer profession in the game. Thus we are forced into healing. Viper/zerk druids after nerfs cant heal decently, they are only good for buffing party with GotL. The raids are balanced for groups with dedicated healer, 100cm fractal is much easier with dedicated healer. So we have a problem that people want us as a healer, not as a dps class.
And new offensive spec will not change it. The only solutions of the problem I see:
1) someone else gets a better healing spec. Thus that unlucky profession will be forced into it as rangers are now.
2) destroying the concept of dedicated healer. Reconcept druid as condi cleanser-GotL buffer-some other utility DPS. Nerf avatar heal to the ground, give it other utilities instead (cleanses, stability, protection or block, choose any).

I personally prefer the 2nd option. GW2 was positioned as a game without dedicated healers/tanks. I can understand if that concept changed, but I can’t understand why it should change ONLY for my profession. Are rangers cursed/hated?

Ider.1276:

The only solutions of the problem I see:
1) someone else gets a better healing spec. Thus that unlucky profession will be forced into it as rangers are now.
2) destroying the concept of dedicated healer. Reconcept druid as condi cleanser-GotL buffer-some other utility DPS. Nerf avatar heal to the ground, give it other utilities instead (cleanses, stability, protection or block, choose any).

1. Then rangers (druids) will be left out yet again
2. So, a guardian?

So a guardian what? Please, extend your idea. I don’t understand what you wanted to say.

Ider.1276:

The problem is we are THE only decent healer profession in the game.

No. Not only is that not true, but the very fact that people word it as if they don’t kittening realize that we’re the only class that currently have a healing elite spec, which is obviously why we are a strong candidate for a healer role (or more correctly as far as PvE goes, booster role). How about you just relax and wait for them to release the next elite specs? Some other class will get something healing related, ranger most certainly will get something damage related. No, it may not shift the most effective meta comp, but its gonna give people options. None of the PvE content in this game requires strict meta comps to quickly get through it.

The longbow ranged dps role for PvE that people keep crying about will never be viable in a game that forces you to play close to receive party buffs anyway. And projectile skills got way too many counters in PvP at the moment.

And lastly, the druid is based on the existing lore. Regenerating and healing rivers and waters was always a part of the Maguuma lore in the first game. Whatever ideas from other sources people have about a druid is irrelevant. This stupid shapeshifting ideas people got? We already forgot how useless transform skills in this game is? How bad anet is at designing kits you swap in and out of unless its a dedicated avatar/form or just a complete copy of the engineer?

Lazze.9870:

How about you just relax and wait for them to release the next elite specs?

As I posted above, new elite spec will solve nothing. Lets say, Revenant gets new healing spec to boost Ventary, and ranger gets some neet DPS spec on par with tempest. Hooray for us. But what about Revenants? They will be forced into healing spec just as we are now since they get a support elite spec instead of new OP dps one.
The state of dedicated healer/support IS the problem. In core game (and for any other profession in HoT) there were no dedicated tank/support roles. And here go the druids, only spec in game that heals as a god and gives up to 25% damage (glyph+GotL) to party. Everything was at least tolerable untill avatar nerf. Then – blam! – you are full magi/zealot support, guys, worthless on your own. Have fun.
Yeah, we still have a little freedom in viper druid alternative. But in a raid 1 magi druid is still mandatory. And half of T4 fractal lfg is “lf healing druid”.
Maybe – just maybe – someone should consider moving away from the system when 1 person in a group does nothing but healing and others do nothing but damage? Thats not only a druid problem. Personaly I think that in GW2 a dedicated healer/tank role should not exist for any profession. And the gameplay balanced from that perspective.

Aiiiiinnnnsssss….

Druid would be amazing if the core role would be in a “ok” state. Not the case so druid simply exacerbate the problem.

Just for the shake of sanity and get it into your heads: Druid does not bring support, brings HEALING. Period.
One GM to increase dps for short time while you are doing acrobatics with the keyboard is not something to be proud of.

However: The core class has so much potential

• Rework the spirits effects so they trigger more frecuently and arent lame and bring back the mobile spirits and paste it together with the druid and there you have it: a pretty solid support role for groups ( for any sized groups actually).
• Some minor changes in the traits so the ranger doesn’t have all the cleanses in one traitline and there you have it: more choice options to build more offensively.
• Small rework of some traits so the ranger doesn’t stuck in one traitline to keep the mobility and even better: now you can go for full dps.

Pets need a complete redesing so i won’t go there. But pets could be an amazing mechanic is Anet wouldn’t be so afraid to make ranger anything else than the full afk farmer bot (the actual casual players would go for something more rewarding like reaper, warrior or guardian)

If Ventari gave gotl stacks, no neither ventari nor druid would be “forced to heal.” If Rune of Chronomancer gave 2 seconds of aoe quickness, Necros could also be a quickness bot too. So no, there is no forced meta with new elite specs if done right.

Then again, there is no forced meta right now.
I raid/fotm with a Chrono that swaps between berserker, commander and minstrel depending on if he wants to heal/tank some.
I raid/fotm with an ele that swaps between zerker and magi gear if he wants to DPS/heal.
I raid/fotm myself with as zerker, zealot or viper druid.
Just depends on if one of us is bored and feels like something else.
There are also other rangers/druids in the groups (up to 3 in a raid squad) that also swap between viper druid/ranger.

Rangers are not the only decent/required healer nor is there only 1 spot for a ranger/druid in raids and fotm. Dedicated healing is also not required in fotm.

Lazze.9870:

Ider.1276:

The problem is we are THE only decent healer profession in the game.

No. Not only is that not true, but the very fact that people word it as if they don’t kittening realize that we’re the only class that currently have a healing elite spec, which is obviously why we are a strong candidate for a healer role (or more correctly as far as PvE goes, booster role). How about you just relax and wait for them to release the next elite specs? Some other class will get something healing related, ranger most certainly will get something damage related. No, it may not shift the most effective meta comp, but its gonna give people options. None of the PvE content in this game requires strict meta comps to quickly get through it.

The longbow ranged dps role for PvE that people keep crying about will never be viable in a game that forces you to play close to receive party buffs anyway. And projectile skills got way too many counters in PvP at the moment.

And lastly, the druid is based on the existing lore. Regenerating and healing rivers and waters was always a part of the Maguuma lore in the first game. Whatever ideas from other sources people have about a druid is irrelevant. This stupid shapeshifting ideas people got? We already forgot how useless transform skills in this game is? How bad anet is at designing kits you swap in and out of unless its a dedicated avatar/form or just a complete copy of the engineer?

Water staff ele is perfectly viable as a healer as well. I have no doubt engineers and guardians could also find a build to do so.

The issue is, those classes have higher DPS ceilings with their builds and they lose more DPS by going healer specs than ranger does.

SlippyCheeze.5483:

cough you know that you can find groups that don’t demand you play in a way you don’t like, right? I’d suggest hunting for them. Sounds like a good deal to me, finding a guild that won’t make you play in a way you don’t want to.

Rumor has it that we get dagger MH for the next xpac, in what will highly likely be a DPS oriented spec, finally freeing us from being “the” healer. (Despite other classes, looking at you ele, having some serious healing chops of their own.)

No, no you really can’t find anyone who runs in groups, successfully, if you aren’t what they ‘want’. If you are downed, even if you revived every single one of them, you will be ignored.

Either you’re running solo and ok with that or running with what your group ‘needs’ most if you are in a guild… not sure which but my experience almost 5 years in WvW is above – and most will tell you it’s the same for them as well.

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Well, that is kinda the thing that’s gonna happen in the next xpac — not so much that druid goes away, but that ranger is extremely unlikely to get a second support-focused elite, so … you should have something else to play.

people keep talking about this like it is a thing.
next expac won’t happen for at least a year or two, ranger needs a fix right now. More even than any other class, as the healer bot druid is the only viable build and only for one aspect of the game.

In any case it won’t matter: you bring a full dps new spec but because you can’t have druid you will lack any actual sustain. So we are back to the pewpew that can’t stay alive long enough to have a chance to win.

anduriell.6280:

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Well, that is kinda the thing that’s gonna happen in the next xpac — not so much that druid goes away, but that ranger is extremely unlikely to get a second support-focused elite, so … you should have something else to play.

people keep talking about this like it is a thing.
next expac won’t happen for at least a year or two, ranger needs a fix right now. More even than any other class, as the healer bot druid is the only viable build and only for one aspect of the game.

In any case it won’t matter: you bring a full dps new spec but because you can’t have druid you will lack any actual sustain. So we are back to the pewpew that can’t stay alive long enough to have a chance to win.

Lol? Next expansion is this year for sure.

^^ What makes you think that? We’ve heard nothing and they started dropping hits about HoT over 6 months before it was released IIRC. SO like, you betting on Dec 2017?

Obtena.7952:

^^ What makes you think that? We’ve heard nothing and they started dropping hits about HoT over 6 months before it was released IIRC. SO like, you betting on Dec 2017?

WP speculated on his Sat stream that the next xpac would be coming about 12-18 months from now. It’s still just an educated guess but based on everything I’d say it’s plausible. LWS3 has 3-6 episodes left, and that should take ANet about 6-12 months to finish, and I’m sure they want to place the expansion to continue that timeline.

Ider.1276:

Lazze.9870:

How about you just relax and wait for them to release the next elite specs?

As I posted above, new elite spec will solve nothing. Lets say, Revenant gets new healing spec to boost Ventary, and ranger gets some neet DPS spec on par with tempest. Hooray for us. But what about Revenants? They will be forced into healing spec just as we are now since they get a support elite spec instead of new OP dps one.
The state of dedicated healer/support IS the problem. In core game (and for any other profession in HoT) there were no dedicated tank/support roles. And here go the druids, only spec in game that heals as a god and gives up to 25% damage (glyph+GotL) to party. Everything was at least tolerable untill avatar nerf. Then – blam! – you are full magi/zealot support, guys, worthless on your own. Have fun.
Yeah, we still have a little freedom in viper druid alternative. But in a raid 1 magi druid is still mandatory. And half of T4 fractal lfg is “lf healing druid”.
Maybe – just maybe – someone should consider moving away from the system when 1 person in a group does nothing but healing and others do nothing but damage? Thats not only a druid problem. Personaly I think that in GW2 a dedicated healer/tank role should not exist for any profession. And the gameplay balanced from that perspective.

Read my comment properly before you reply me again. Because you clearly didn’t.