Guild Wars 2

The skills of interest:
Fire Bomb vs. Flame Trap

Fire Bomb:
Pros:
- 2s burn that pulses 3 times on a 10s CD.
- Bring the added utilities of immobilize, confusion, blind, and cripple.

Cons:
- Cannot be preset.
- Slightly smaller damage radius.

Fire Trap:
Pros:
- Can be preset.
- Slightly larger damage radius. Much larger if traited 20 into precision and critical damage.

Cons:
- 1s burn that pulses 3 times on a 15 second cooldown. Can be increased to duration of fire bomb if one traits 30 points into precision and critical damage.
- No other utilities.

What do you guys think of this?

True?

I don’t know what you want

Flame Trap is only really useful when thrown imo.

Now add in traits:
Fire bombs: Recharge 20% faster (8s timer) Larger radius, heals for 100hp.
Flame trap: Becomes 12s timer, Larger radius, is thrown, unblockable, Lasts 6s. The fact its in the critical line is AMAZING. Try using it with a nice sigil (LIke anything that procs on crit) Watch bleeds come from your flame trap. Or lightning bolts. Or confusion.

Why are you complaining? At all.

I don’t think he’s complaining at all. I think what he’s trying to point out (possibly) is that at their base values, Fire Bomb is much better than Flame Trap, and even though Flame Trap can be made equally effective, it requires much more trait investment than Fire Bomb to be effective.

Awhile ago though, after playing my fair share of all of the other classes, particularly engineers and necromancers, I came to the conclusion that traps are actually fairly weak options considering the amount of investment they need, and the recharges they have for the small amount of effects they do. Really the only thing they have going for them is being unblockable.

Example: Take offhand torch and dagger, with Offhand Training traited. Now, you can output the same duration burn as if an opponent stood in flame trap the whole time, with one throw torch, AND add more burning with torch 5 on top of that. You can perma-poison with offhand dagger, and throw dagger is better than Spike Trap in every way, even with losing the immobilize.

If anything, the biggest loss is the AoE. And really, that’s probably only useful in PvE, because in PvP, why take a trap ranger when you can take an engi that can proc burning as they throw every other condition at you from up to 1500 range, or necro marks, that can do that same exact thing.

tl;dr: traps aren’t that great, like, at all.

When you consider that the Ranger has cripple on sword auto-attack, and can use a dog with knockdown and immobilize, suddenly Fire Trap looks a lot better.

Kasama.8941:

When you consider that the Ranger has cripple on sword auto-attack, and can use a dog with knockdown and immobilize, suddenly Fire Trap looks a lot better.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Big_Ol%27_Bomb
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glue_Bomb
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Net_Shot
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glue_Shot
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Freeze_Grenade

Oh, and none of those are controlled by pet AI. Them being player controlled means having a higher potential success rate, depending on the skill level of the player. And also:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incendiary_Powder

Does flame trap really look that good? Cuz I’m really not seeing it, and I can list positives of the ranger class for days.

jcbroe.4329:

Kasama.8941:

When you consider that the Ranger has cripple on sword auto-attack, and can use a dog with knockdown and immobilize, suddenly Fire Trap looks a lot better.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Big_Ol%27_Bomb
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glue_Bomb
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Net_Shot
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glue_Shot
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Freeze_Grenade

Oh, and none of those are controlled by pet AI. Them being player controlled means having a higher potential success rate, depending on the skill level of the player. And also:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incendiary_Powder

Does flame trap really look that good? Cuz I’m really not seeing it, and I can list positives of the ranger class for days.

The keyword is “auto-attack”, meaning you don’t have to exhaust any of your other skills when you use Fire Trap.

Cripple does not do all that much to keep people inside your traps… A little bit, but not that much.

All of the traps are bad, but it’s hard to compare them to the engineer’s kits. The kits replace your weapon skills, but you can swap between kits and your weapons whenever you want. I’m just not sure if they should be equivalent. If we ever get back the ability to trap like we could in GW1, I think it would look like the bomb kit. Also, I miss dust trap.

I agree, by the way. Traps are weak in comparison to other options both inside and outside the ranger class. The reason that people thought they were OP a long time ago was because of empathic bond, which got a heavy and well deserved nerf, and actually was more powerful in BM builds which were not as popular at the time. Personally, I would like to see a complete rehaul of condis, as it seems that right now the best option is often to spam your condi skills on cd, rather than use them situationally to shut down targets or offer AoE pressure. And in pve, they are a bit weak. Obviously there are some exceptions, you don’t want to randomly spam your immobs. That being said, traps are a big improvement in this game from GW1, where they all had long casts and any attack would interrupt them. I don’t know, maybe some work could be done on combo fields to make them more interesting, too.

And killsmith, I have a feeling that we will see the return of dust trap

Also, something interesting that people have brought up is maybe giving rangers a “trap kit”, which would work similar to engineer kits. I think this would be cool, but some balance work might have to be done, and I think it should have a cd unlike engi kits.

Killsmith.8169:

All of the traps are bad, but it’s hard to compare them to the engineer’s kits. The kits replace your weapon skills, but you can swap between kits and your weapons whenever you want. I’m just not sure if they should be equivalent. If we ever get back the ability to trap like we could in GW1, I think it would look like the bomb kit. Also, I miss dust trap.

I felt the same way…. xD
This is what I wanted to see happen.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Comprehensive-Ranger-Suggestions/first#post2550550

Atherakhia.4086:

True?

I don’t know what you want

Flame Trap is only really useful when thrown imo.

That is not entirely true, there are ways to make it quite useful without throwing it. However according to the discussion going on above us I believe that it should be as effective as fire bomb even when not traited. Even if the radius remains smaller and non throwable, there is no reason why one should be greater than the other at least conceptually.

They aren’t comparable. Bomb = visible, don’t stand near it. Trap…what the heck just hit me?

Malpractice.7850:

Now add in traits:
Fire bombs: Recharge 20% faster (8s timer) Larger radius, heals for 100hp.
Flame trap: Becomes 12s timer, Larger radius, is thrown, unblockable, Lasts 6s. The fact its in the critical line is AMAZING. Try using it with a nice sigil (LIke anything that procs on crit) Watch bleeds come from your flame trap. Or lightning bolts. Or confusion.

Why are you complaining? At all.

Because not only do we lose a lot of survivability traiting into this line which is highly beneficial when using condis but engineers have even better trait procs. Not only can they proc bleeds, but they can then match our sigils, and even proc burning. Bombs win.

Durian.5419:

They aren’t comparable. Bomb = visible, don’t stand near it. Trap…what the heck just hit me?

When in tPvP fighting is done on and off nodes it doesn’t really matter if you can see something or not both are going to hit you. Even if you don’t see the trap you will still take half the damage you would from a bomb.Bombs also have a much lower CD that also forces players off the point. Bombs win.

The point is, our traps are very weak. If they were in a different line they might be more viable but the fact is they aren’t. They leave the ranger with very little defense which imo is actually a good thing because it forces more skillful play. Just wanted to point out that it seems a bit wrong that we have to bring one utility which isn’t even as good as an engi utility that is also 4 other skills in one utility.

Kasama.8941:

jcbroe.4329:

Kasama.8941:

When you consider that the Ranger has cripple on sword auto-attack, and can use a dog with knockdown and immobilize, suddenly Fire Trap looks a lot better.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Big_Ol%27_Bomb
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glue_Bomb
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Net_Shot
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glue_Shot
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Freeze_Grenade

Oh, and none of those are controlled by pet AI. Them being player controlled means having a higher potential success rate, depending on the skill level of the player. And also:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incendiary_Powder

Does flame trap really look that good? Cuz I’m really not seeing it, and I can list positives of the ranger class for days.

The keyword is “auto-attack”, meaning you don’t have to exhaust any of your other skills when you use Fire Trap.

I wasn’t trying to be rude, really. I’m just pointing out that regardless of the placement of the effects of the attack, the engineer can do it equally well. Our own weaponsets are better than our traps, for starters.

Yes, ranger auto attack is amazingly useful, but even if engis have to burn another cooldown, they still do the same effect that we did, as the damage is tied to the Fire Bomb and they have multiple utilities to be able to use it on cooldown.

No, rangers don’t have to burn as many cooldowns. But they also have to have a higher trait investment, and at the end of the day, are bringing a fairly weak utility to the fight when compared to other condition classes.

awge.3852:

Atherakhia.4086:

True?

I don’t know what you want

Flame Trap is only really useful when thrown imo.

That is not entirely true, there are ways to make it quite useful without throwing it. However according to the discussion going on above us I believe that it should be as effective as fire bomb even when not traited. Even if the radius remains smaller and non throwable, there is no reason why one should be greater than the other at least conceptually.

This is just my opinion, but if you aren’t fully traiting for traps, there’s little sense in using any of them.

Eurantien.4632:

The skills of interest:
Fire Bomb vs. Flame Trap

Fire Bomb:
Pros:
- 2s burn that pulses 3 times on a 10s CD.
- Bring the added utilities of immobilize, confusion, blind, and cripple.

Cons:
- Cannot be preset.
- Slightly smaller damage radius.

Fire Trap:
Pros:
- Can be preset.
- Slightly larger damage radius. Much larger if traited 20 into precision and critical damage.

Cons:
- 1s burn that pulses 3 times on a 15 second cooldown. Can be increased to duration of fire bomb if one traits 30 points into precision and critical damage.
- No other utilities.

What do you guys think of this?

I would much prefer the trap TBH. The simple fact that the range on fire bomb makes it so that you can literally walk out of it when an engi switches to bomb kit substantially hurts its ability to deal damage and what truly makes it an inferior skill in comparison…

Ostricheggs.3742:

Eurantien.4632:

The skills of interest:
Fire Bomb vs. Flame Trap

Fire Bomb:
Pros:
- 2s burn that pulses 3 times on a 10s CD.
- Bring the added utilities of immobilize, confusion, blind, and cripple.

Cons:
- Cannot be preset.
- Slightly smaller damage radius.

Fire Trap:
Pros:
- Can be preset.
- Slightly larger damage radius. Much larger if traited 20 into precision and critical damage.

Cons:
- 1s burn that pulses 3 times on a 15 second cooldown. Can be increased to duration of fire bomb if one traits 30 points into precision and critical damage.
- No other utilities.

What do you guys think of this?

I would much prefer the trap TBH. The simple fact that the range on fire bomb makes it so that you can literally walk out of it when an engi switches to bomb kit substantially hurts its ability to deal damage and what truly makes it an inferior skill in comparison…

But, from a ranger perspective, would you opt to use Flame Trap or offhand torch?

Atherakhia.4086:

awge.3852:

Atherakhia.4086:

True?

I don’t know what you want

Flame Trap is only really useful when thrown imo.

That is not entirely true, there are ways to make it quite useful without throwing it. However according to the discussion going on above us I believe that it should be as effective as fire bomb even when not traited. Even if the radius remains smaller and non throwable, there is no reason why one should be greater than the other at least conceptually.

This is just my opinion, but if you aren’t fully traiting for traps, there’s little sense in using any of them.

That can be a valid point of view, however I do manage to use flame trap to great use. It works well with my strong condition damage battle approach thanks to its quick cool down. But that is a bit besides the point, I still think that the drawback on the flame trap vs the fire bomb argument is valid. Can anyone produce some math regarding this? Hopefully we can get developer feedback or put this in the ‘fix this’ box for them.

So i hear oranges aren’t the same as apples.

Durzlla.6295:

So i hear oranges aren’t the same as apples.

Not sure who told you that…. They’re both kinda round.