Guild Wars 2

Very frustrating , this patch was horrible …

Do you think we can be with this tank ? ?
Wilderness Survival VIII – Oakheart Save : Decreased the recharge of this trait from 20 seconds to 15 seconds .
Wilderness Survival XII -Bark Skin : Increased the damage reduction from 30 % to 50 % .

How many stun skills we have ? ? ?
Skirmishing XII – Moment of Clarity : Stun duration Increased from 50 % to 100 % .

The damage to 500 range remains low.
Long Range Shot: Increased the damage at the less-than – 500 range by 20 % . Increased the damage at the 500 to 1000 range by 15% .

Now the thing that made me angrier was that …
Wilderness Survival 5 – Natural Stamina : Reduced the regeneration endurance Increased from 50 % to 25 % .
Why ? ? Why have you destroyed our only defense ? ?

I will not even comment on the other changes but after the Nerf Natural Vigor I stopped playing with the Ranger …

I really do not know what’s on your minds …..
GG ANet , you destroyed the Ranger .

Get over it. No, really. They’re reducing the most overpowered 5 point trait of any class as part of a general reduction of Vigor because dodge-spam in this game is so over the top that Berserker (all offense, no defense) actually works out to be the best general armor stat set in the game. Its one of the dumbest things about this game and it needs to be corrected, aggressively.

Yes, Rangers can tank. Rangers actually have some of the most durable bunker builds going. These changes add some variety to how you can set up to bunker.

Longbows are a long range weapon and they made them better in close. That’s as good as you can hope for, but hey, why not demand more? ((snort))

Want to know what Moment of clarity is for? Put down the ()#(*@! longbow and try out a short bow. You’ll figure it out soon enough.

Maybe they destroyed your narrow vision of the class, but there’s actually a lot of helpful tweaks in this patch. They didn’t address our core issues, but it’s still a number of steps in the right direction.

You’re being over dramatic and honestly I’m not pleased with the STATE of the Ranger either, but we did receive buffs..Most of the Nerfs were to the already underwhelming Spirit Build.

Also the Natural Vigor nerf made it so you only gain an additional Dodge from every 6.67 seconds to an additional dodge every 8 seconds. Oh woe is me! that we have to wait an additional second and a half to dodge again.

It’s not that bad and we haven’t been “Destroyed.”

Nike.2631:

Get over it. No, really. They’re reducing the most overpowered 5 point trait of any class as part of a general reduction of Vigor because dodge-spam in this game is so over the top that Berserker (all offense, no defense) actually works out to be the best general armor stat set in the game. Its one of the dumbest things about this game and it needs to be corrected, aggressively.

Yes, Rangers can tank. Rangers actually have some of the most durable bunker builds going. These changes add some variety to how you can set up to bunker.

Longbows are a long range weapon and they made them better in close. That’s as good as you can hope for, but hey, why not demand more? ((snort))

Want to know what Moment of clarity is for? Put down the ()#(*@! longbow and try out a short bow. You’ll figure it out soon enough.

Maybe they destroyed your narrow vision of the class, but there’s actually a lot of helpful tweaks in this patch. They didn’t address our core issues, but it’s still a number of steps in the right direction.

Ranger is only evasive spammy when running with s/d. So just because one build has too much evasion, we’re going to Nerf nearly every single ranger build? Logic? The only class that actually takes advantage of evasion spam is thief and that’s because they have a trait which returns 1/3 endurance on dodging, which wasn’t even nerfed.

Moment of clarity still sucks. Only two weapons can take advantage of it, and only one of those weapons can take advantage of the damage bonus. The trait = trash.

I understand some frustration with crap like Oakheart Salve and Predator’s Instinct getting buffed, but a lot of these are great.

Bark Skin is great for dungeons for those of us who don’t feel it necessary to speed clear everything with 20/25/0/25/0 Zerker builds. I think Moment of Clarity is bad anyway, but this buff is great for those rangers that use it. Longbow is a lot better than people give it credit for and this buff is fantastic. You’re also forgetting things like the buffs to Mighty Swap and Two-Handed Training, which will help a lot for power based bunker builds.

Yeah, we lose some on a minor adept trait and that really sucks, but don’t pretend like we don’t have Vigorous Renewal, Primal Reflexes, and Lightning Reflexes; Three things I feel like pretty much every ranger should be running anyway. I have so much vigor that I’ll hardly notice this nerf.

We have very little to complain about regarding todays patch.

Soilder.3607:

So just because one build has too much evasion, we’re going to Nerf nearly every single ranger build? Logic?

You just explained the logic yourself – when “nearly every single Ranger build” includes one trait, its pretty %#&@ing obvious that trait is overpowered for its cost.

Nike.2631:

Soilder.3607:

So just because one build has too much evasion, we’re going to Nerf nearly every single ranger build? Logic?

You just explained the logic yourself – when “nearly every single Ranger build” includes one trait, its pretty %#&@ing obvious that trait is overpowered for its cost.

The trait is not overpowered at all. Ranger is supposed to be a mobile and evasive class and evidenced by evasions on five of our weapons. So what if other classes have to invest more to receive a similar function. They have their own class specific benefits.

There isn’t even a single op ranger build out there right now but clearly we just needed this Nerf.

Nike.2631:

Soilder.3607:

So just because one build has too much evasion, we’re going to Nerf nearly every single ranger build? Logic?

You just explained the logic yourself – when “nearly every single Ranger build” includes one trait, its pretty %#&@ing obvious that trait is overpowered for its cost.

To be fair it was a 5pt trait in a tree most need 30pts in regardless because of the miserable condi options for the class.

I certainly understand the OP’s frustration. The changes this class does get almost always seem like random shots in the dark like ANet just throws darts at a board to choose what they’ll mess with next.

This is just a completely lost class and not even the developers have a clue what’s going on. I’d say abandon ship but it sank about 6 months ago.

I’m so happy to see that my long range DPS class now is better off being played as a full-time Spirit Support, that still doesn’t have any reliable CC to contribute and a boon remover in a world full of people using perma regen, protection, might, fury and swiftness.

/sarcasm

Outside of Karka solo, I might as well go and play every other profession.

To get my endurance back i had to waste a a trait allocation and 2 sigils to get Vigorous Renewal and sigils of stamina :C

Nice they made me explore a new build. Now i do even less damage. Whoopeee!

Warrior = Usain Bolt
Thief = Hollow Man
Mesmer = Binary Fission + Hollow Man
Ranger =??

All other classes have something to defend themselves and the only thing I had was the Ranger evade …. 8s can even be good in sPvP but is very WvWvW this nerf is the same as taking 1 clone of the Mesmer limit the invisibility of Thief.

What is your logic? Being Longbow damage is less at close range?? You need some lessons of physics …

You will never tanking as a Warrior or Guardian and focus on your damage will be hard as ridiculous.

ANet is destroying the Ranger and increasingly it becomes useless in WvWvW.

Nike.2631:

Soilder.3607:

So just because one build has too much evasion, we’re going to Nerf nearly every single ranger build? Logic?

You just explained the logic yourself – when “nearly every single Ranger build” includes one trait, its pretty %#&@ing obvious that trait is overpowered for its cost.

A trait that we get automatically for putting points into our probably most useful attribute line, which means most of us will have it by default, makes it OP? You should apply for a job at anet, your game balance logic would fit right in.

This was a pretty good patch. I am farting around with some traits I never thought I would care about and seeing real usefulness.

Nike.2631:

Soilder.3607:

So just because one build has too much evasion, we’re going to Nerf nearly every single ranger build? Logic?

You just explained the logic yourself – when “nearly every single Ranger build” includes one trait, its pretty %#&@ing obvious that trait is overpowered for its cost.

not to mention that you can take on ALL endgame content there is including WvW and sPvP, in full glass cannon and dodge your way out of harms way. All it takes is some timing. And honestly, we got so much vigor atm, in addition to a 50% passive trait (now 25%) that it is ridiculous.

To list all the vigor we got (100% endurance regen)
Vigor whenever someone lands a crit on YOU (15s CD, skirmishing) 6sec
Vigor on heal (Wilderness Survival) 6sec
Vigor on pet swap. in combat (Beastmastery) 6sec
Vigor when using Lightning Reflexes (Utility skill) 10sec

That is 28 seconds. 40 seconds if someone crits you and you swap pet before it runs out, and by then, you can use LR again, which means oh… 50 seconds. and by now you start the chain again, SO YOU CAN ACHIEVE PERMA VIGOR.

That means you can, technically have permanent 125% endurance regen while in combat. How awful.

Prysin.8542:

Nike.2631:

Soilder.3607:

So just because one build has too much evasion, we’re going to Nerf nearly every single ranger build? Logic?

You just explained the logic yourself – when “nearly every single Ranger build” includes one trait, its pretty %#&@ing obvious that trait is overpowered for its cost.

not to mention that you can take on ALL endgame content there is including WvW and sPvP, in full glass cannon and dodge your way out of harms way. All it takes is some timing. And honestly, we got so much vigor atm, in addition to a 50% passive trait (now 25%) that it is ridiculous.

To list all the vigor we got (100% endurance regen)
Vigor whenever someone lands a crit on YOU (15s CD, skirmishing) 6sec
Vigor on heal (Wilderness Survival) 6sec
Vigor on pet swap. in combat (Beastmastery) 6sec
Vigor when using Lightning Reflexes (Utility skill) 10sec

That is 28 seconds. 40 seconds if someone crits you and you swap pet before it runs out, and by then, you can use LR again, which means oh… 50 seconds. and by now you start the chain again, SO YOU CAN ACHIEVE PERMA VIGOR.

That means you can, technically have permanent 125% endurance regen while in combat. How awful.

The 25% and Vigor don’t stack…

avalanchegamer.9675:

Warrior = Usain Bolt
Thief = Hollow Man
Mesmer = Binary Fission + Hollow Man
Ranger =??

All other classes have something to defend themselves and the only thing I had was the Ranger evade …. 8s can even be good in sPvP but is very WvWvW this nerf is the same as taking 1 clone of the Mesmer limit the invisibility of Thief.

What is your logic? Being Longbow damage is less at close range?? You need some lessons of physics …

You will never tanking as a Warrior or Guardian and focus on your damage will be hard as ridiculous.

ANet is destroying the Ranger and increasingly it becomes useless in WvWvW.

Gonna rain on your parade here.
With a BM bunker build, you can easily without issues or problems out-tank and destroy any and all warriors you face in a 1v1. And if you fail to do so, it is your own fault.
Let me elaborate;
If you spec 0/0/10/30/30 you get vigor on heal, 25% passive endurance regen, 35% increased chance for spirit proc, spirits unbound and natures voice, in addition to this you get -20% pet F2 CD, Vigor on Pet Swap and Natural Healing (passive heal 125/3sec for player, 125/sec for pet).
If you do like me, and run with Signet of the Wild, Signet of Renewal and Guard, you can get more condition cleanses then you need, add in the new healing spirit and you get so much healing power and regen that whatever pet you choose should not die even if the pet get focused by the warrior/guard. If you also happen to run with birds or cats, your DPS will be tremendously higher then ANY warrior or guard. As those kitten birds can easily do 2x 1200 damage on their AA. In addition to providing a blind-on-demand.
If you use Sword + Dagger and Shortbow with a Apoth build, and use +40% condi duration food, you can have 100% uptime of poison, which means they get their healing nerfed by 33%. And if your warrior run the dreaded regen build that has up to 900hp/sec healing, you literally nerf that down to 600 by using poison alone. Now, given that any bunker build can easily do 3-400 direct damage + condition damage, and pets do loads of damage ontop of this, you realize that a warrior or guard in tank spec does not hold a candle to a ranger.

a bunker ranger is way more OP then any other bunker build short of ele bunker.

Substance E.4852:

Prysin.8542:

Nike.2631:

Soilder.3607:

So just because one build has too much evasion, we’re going to Nerf nearly every single ranger build? Logic?

You just explained the logic yourself – when “nearly every single Ranger build” includes one trait, its pretty %#&@ing obvious that trait is overpowered for its cost.

not to mention that you can take on ALL endgame content there is including WvW and sPvP, in full glass cannon and dodge your way out of harms way. All it takes is some timing. And honestly, we got so much vigor atm, in addition to a 50% passive trait (now 25%) that it is ridiculous.

To list all the vigor we got (100% endurance regen)
Vigor whenever someone lands a crit on YOU (15s CD, skirmishing) 6sec
Vigor on heal (Wilderness Survival) 6sec
Vigor on pet swap. in combat (Beastmastery) 6sec
Vigor when using Lightning Reflexes (Utility skill) 10sec

That is 28 seconds. 40 seconds if someone crits you and you swap pet before it runs out, and by then, you can use LR again, which means oh… 50 seconds. and by now you start the chain again, SO YOU CAN ACHIEVE PERMA VIGOR.

That means you can, technically have permanent 125% endurance regen while in combat. How awful.

The 25% and Vigor don’t stack…

it does. It is two different buffs. If you do not believe me, bring out your stop-watch and test how long it takes to re-gain full endurance without 25% and vigor, with 25%, with 100% and with 125%.

Fix that enduranc enerf. Ur acting like with the pargaon in gw1. Nerf nerf nerf and no serious buff. It’s so annoying. Plu syou don’t listen to the community consideringt the ranger.

Nike.2631:

Soilder.3607:

So just because one build has too much evasion, we’re going to Nerf nearly every single ranger build? Logic?

You just explained the logic yourself – when “nearly every single Ranger build” includes one trait, its pretty %#&@ing obvious that trait is overpowered for its cost.

The guardian version, vigorous precision, gives permanent vigor for the same investment. Why does a heavy class with strong condition removal have the better evasive trait?

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Nike.2631:

Soilder.3607:

So just because one build has too much evasion, we’re going to Nerf nearly every single ranger build? Logic?

You just explained the logic yourself – when “nearly every single Ranger build” includes one trait, its pretty %#&@ing obvious that trait is overpowered for its cost.

The guardian version, vigorous precision, gives permanent vigor for the same investment. Why does a heavy class with strong condition removal have the better evasive trait?

Not technically true. Any trait requiring on crit procs requires stat investment over trait investment. Rangers only required 5 points, Guardians/Mesmers require 5 points and decent enough precision to reliably proc the vigor consistently.

We have a LOT of traits for vigor.

One of my new favorites is vigorous renewal (100% regeneration). The new spirit heal provides “on heal proc” abilities at summon and each time you use the heal.

Vigorous training is quite nice too. Doesn’t take long to swap a pet.

You just need to tweak your spec and you will have more vigor than the guy who really got nerfed by the global change.

They made my Gaurdian and Mesmer look better for sure with this patch.

By the way, the game is built around doing as much damage possible as fast as possible while mitgating it through dodging/evade. That’s what happened when they decided not to go with the traditional trinity, thus no “tank”. So, yes, any nerf to the ability to dodge is bad.

Prysin.8542:

Substance E.4852:

Prysin.8542:

Nike.2631:

Soilder.3607:

So just because one build has too much evasion, we’re going to Nerf nearly every single ranger build? Logic?

You just explained the logic yourself – when “nearly every single Ranger build” includes one trait, its pretty %#&@ing obvious that trait is overpowered for its cost.

not to mention that you can take on ALL endgame content there is including WvW and sPvP, in full glass cannon and dodge your way out of harms way. All it takes is some timing. And honestly, we got so much vigor atm, in addition to a 50% passive trait (now 25%) that it is ridiculous.

To list all the vigor we got (100% endurance regen)
Vigor whenever someone lands a crit on YOU (15s CD, skirmishing) 6sec
Vigor on heal (Wilderness Survival) 6sec
Vigor on pet swap. in combat (Beastmastery) 6sec
Vigor when using Lightning Reflexes (Utility skill) 10sec

That is 28 seconds. 40 seconds if someone crits you and you swap pet before it runs out, and by then, you can use LR again, which means oh… 50 seconds. and by now you start the chain again, SO YOU CAN ACHIEVE PERMA VIGOR.

That means you can, technically have permanent 125% endurance regen while in combat. How awful.

The 25% and Vigor don’t stack…

it does. It is two different buffs. If you do not believe me, bring out your stop-watch and test how long it takes to re-gain full endurance without 25% and vigor, with 25%, with 100% and with 125%.

Hmmm, no.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigor

Nike.2631:

Get over it. No, really. They’re reducing the most overpowered 5 point trait of any class

Pretty sure there’s more overpowered 5p trait on different classes.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Critical_Infusion
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigorous_Precision

Nihevil.8024:

Nike.2631:

Get over it. No, really. They’re reducing the most overpowered 5 point trait of any class

Pretty sure there’s more overpowered 5p trait on different classes.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Critical_Infusion
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigorous_Precision

“Any trait requiring on crit procs requires stat investment over trait investment. Rangers only required 5 points, Guardians/Mesmers require 5 points and decent enough precision to reliably proc the vigor consistently.”

Nihevil.8024:

Nike.2631:

Get over it. No, really. They’re reducing the most overpowered 5 point trait of any class

Pretty sure there’s more overpowered 5p trait on different classes.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Critical_Infusion
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigorous_Precision

Do you understand how those traits work?

If you are out of range: no hits, no vigor. If you are stunned: no hits, no vigor. If you are blinded: no hits, no vigor. If you are blocked: no crit, no vigor. If you are fighting any of the hundreds of objects or bosses that act like objects: no crits, no vigor. If you hit but don’t crit, no vigor. If you are a condition damage build: low Precision, few crits, spotty vigor.

You have to gear for it and it has serious impact on which weapons you can use if you want high vigor uptime.

Pre Dec 10 Ranger~
Spend 5 points. +50% endurance refill rate come hell or high water. No check, no gear requirement, no counter-play.

Remember we have good traits (on pet swap and on heal) that give us lots of regen.
Pet swap vigor is AE.

Not worried.

thefantasticg.3984:

By the way, the game is built around doing as much damage possible as fast as possible while mitgating it through dodging/evade. That’s what happened when they decided not to go with the traditional trinity, thus no “tank”. So, yes, any nerf to the ability to dodge is bad.

They started out with that model and discovered it makes for terrible gear diversity and dodge-spam>Everything gameplay.

Powerful or not natural vigor allowed rangers to dodge more, which in case of bunker build might have seemed too much, but its a big part of rangers’ defence. All rangers, including glass cannons have now less ways of actively defending themselves. Its not like we have access to blinds, teleports, evades like thieves. Even dodges they could get more out of. But at least we hade better damage than them, right? /rolls eyes Dodging active, bark skin buff passive. I wouldn’t mind if Anet didn’t specifically state over and over again that they are trying to promote active play.

Nike.2631:

Nihevil.8024:

Nike.2631:

Get over it. No, really. They’re reducing the most overpowered 5 point trait of any class

Pretty sure there’s more overpowered 5p trait on different classes.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Critical_Infusion
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigorous_Precision

Do you understand how those traits work?

If you are out of range: no hits, no vigor. If you are stunned: no hits, no vigor. If you are blinded: no hits, no vigor. If you are blocked: no crit, no vigor. If you are fighting any of the hundreds of objects or bosses that act like objects: no crits, no vigor. If you hit but don’t crit, no vigor. If you are a condition damage build: low Precision, few crits, spotty vigor.

You have to gear for it and it has serious impact on which weapons you can use if you want high vigor uptime.

Pre Dec 10 Ranger~
Spend 5 points. +50% endurance refill rate come hell or high water. No check, no gear requirement, no counter-play.

If you’re out of range: he’s probably out of range as well, if you’re melee only, close the gap. If you are stunned: you should probably bring stability, stunbreaks, or even l2dodge. If you’re blinded: don’t stand in blackpowder. If you’re blocked: he’s probably not hitting you either, if it’s aegis that’s only one attack blocked and you’ll probably attack 2-3 more times before your vigor expires, same goes with blind. Hit with no crit: See “if you’re blocked”. Objects don’t hit back. Non crit-able bosses are predictable and bass endurance regen is enough. If you’re a condition build: Rabid

L2use different stat combinations to get that desired crit chance and it does not have a serious impact on which weapons you have to use.

thefantasticg.3984:

They made my Gaurdian and Mesmer look better for sure with this patch.

By the way, the game is built around doing as much damage possible as fast as possible while mitgating it through dodging/evade. That’s what happened when they decided not to go with the traditional trinity, thus no “tank”. So, yes, any nerf to the ability to dodge is bad.

This is your perception of the game-I just don’t think ANet understood most people would boil it down just as you did. IMHO they felt it was liberating, letting players choose different playstyles rather than just focusing on DPS. Ultimately (and sadly to some extent) most encounters can be trivialized by a group focusing on DPS with some choice utilities and strategies. In short, for most group encounters in the game, it seems to be that way, but I am 100% ANet does not agree with the “no trinity=only DPS matters” stance (or “PvE is DPS, other stats are for PvP” which they have never stated anywhere.)

On topic, I didn’t like that nerf myself because dodges are always useful regardless gear choice, be it “bunker” or DPS. I admit I never used any other vigor traits, because I prefer my endurance to regenerate slowly than an on-demand Vigor boon. Right now not even using it, though there are still myriads of ways a Ranger can have lots of survivability, Vigor or otherwise.

avalanchegamer.9675:

Do you think we can be with this tank ? ?
Wilderness Survival XII -Bark Skin : Increased the damage reduction from 30 % to 50 %

That is one of if not the best ranger buff in this patch.

Previously, it did 30% damage reduction when under 25% hp. So it was like getting an extra .75 + .25 / (1 – .3) = 1.107 = 11% extra hp.

Now it’s 50% damage reduction when under 25% hp. .75 + .25 / (1 – .5) = 1.25 = 25% extra hp.

A GM trait giving 25% extra hp would make it one of the best traits in the game. If it only worked against condition damage. Still it’s nothing to sneeze at.

Nike.2631:

Nihevil.8024:

Nike.2631:

Get over it. No, really. They’re reducing the most overpowered 5 point trait of any class

Pretty sure there’s more overpowered 5p trait on different classes.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Critical_Infusion
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigorous_Precision

Do you understand how those traits work?

If you are out of range: no hits, no vigor. If you are stunned: no hits, no vigor. If you are blinded: no hits, no vigor. If you are blocked: no crit, no vigor. If you are fighting any of the hundreds of objects or bosses that act like objects: no crits, no vigor. If you hit but don’t crit, no vigor. If you are a condition damage build: low Precision, few crits, spotty vigor.

You have to gear for it and it has serious impact on which weapons you can use if you want high vigor uptime.

Pre Dec 10 Ranger~
Spend 5 points. +50% endurance refill rate come hell or high water. No check, no gear requirement, no counter-play.

oh your vigor boon only +50% endurance
lol

Obviously those in support of a vigor nerf are from the oldschool era where the gameplay was much much slower. Yes, lets just slow down the pace of the game just for you old geezers out there because you can’t react and plan in time to counter a players evasive options.

I want to see a better Adept Level Skirmishing Trait for Power users.

You got 2 or 3 traits designed around increasing your pets ability, the other traits designed around Condition users.

Nothing designed really well for a Power User.

Predators instinct should be moved over to Skirmishing Line’s Adept Tree.

To much stuff in the top line already.

Solandri.9640:

avalanchegamer.9675:

Do you think we can be with this tank ? ?
Wilderness Survival XII -Bark Skin : Increased the damage reduction from 30 % to 50 %

That is one of if not the best ranger buff in this patch.

Previously, it did 30% damage reduction when under 25% hp. So it was like getting an extra .75 + .25 / (1 – .3) = 1.107 = 11% extra hp.

Now it’s 50% damage reduction when under 25% hp. .75 + .25 / (1 – .5) = 1.25 = 25% extra hp.

A GM trait giving 25% extra hp would make it one of the best traits in the game. If it only worked against condition damage. Still it’s nothing to sneeze at.

With the amount of condition spam going on atm it will always be better to take emphatic bond over bark skin if you go 30 into wilderness survival.

Prysin.8542:

avalanchegamer.9675:

Warrior = Usain Bolt
Thief = Hollow Man
Mesmer = Binary Fission + Hollow Man
Ranger =??

All other classes have something to defend themselves and the only thing I had was the Ranger evade …. 8s can even be good in sPvP but is very WvWvW this nerf is the same as taking 1 clone of the Mesmer limit the invisibility of Thief.

What is your logic? Being Longbow damage is less at close range?? You need some lessons of physics …

You will never tanking as a Warrior or Guardian and focus on your damage will be hard as ridiculous.

ANet is destroying the Ranger and increasingly it becomes useless in WvWvW.

Gonna rain on your parade here.
With a BM bunker build, you can easily without issues or problems out-tank and destroy any and all warriors you face in a 1v1. And if you fail to do so, it is your own fault.
Let me elaborate;
If you spec 0/0/10/30/30 you get vigor on heal, 25% passive endurance regen, 35% increased chance for spirit proc, spirits unbound and natures voice, in addition to this you get -20% pet F2 CD, Vigor on Pet Swap and Natural Healing (passive heal 125/3sec for player, 125/sec for pet).
If you do like me, and run with Signet of the Wild, Signet of Renewal and Guard, you can get more condition cleanses then you need, add in the new healing spirit and you get so much healing power and regen that whatever pet you choose should not die even if the pet get focused by the warrior/guard. If you also happen to run with birds or cats, your DPS will be tremendously higher then ANY warrior or guard. As those kitten birds can easily do 2x 1200 damage on their AA. In addition to providing a blind-on-demand.
If you use Sword + Dagger and Shortbow with a Apoth build, and use +40% condi duration food, you can have 100% uptime of poison, which means they get their healing nerfed by 33%. And if your warrior run the dreaded regen build that has up to 900hp/sec healing, you literally nerf that down to 600 by using poison alone. Now, given that any bunker build can easily do 3-400 direct damage + condition damage, and pets do loads of damage ontop of this, you realize that a warrior or guard in tank spec does not hold a candle to a ranger.

a bunker ranger is way more OP then any other bunker build short of ele bunker.

could please elaborate further?
i would like to know how you plan to get rid of all those conditions?
it looks a little tricky for me, you use the soldier runes to get rid of 1 condition every 12s, 1 condition every 10s from sigil… Thats more then enough? Yeah sure every 60s you get rid of all conditions.
w/o EB .. makes me really wonder…
you outlast that 600 regen with 128 regen and those procs you get…wont you miss troll urgent or is that new spirit that awesome? Which traits do you pick? Since you use 1 shout, do you pick natures voice or do you pick spirits unbound? Dunno, if last one makes sense or even first one..

dunno, i might miss something…

thanks it advance…i would like to play my ranger again but i just cant see how one could play w/o EB.

edit: ups, forgot they moved the spirits unbound to lower tier, sorry!

Nike.2631:

thefantasticg.3984:

By the way, the game is built around doing as much damage possible as fast as possible while mitgating it through dodging/evade. That’s what happened when they decided not to go with the traditional trinity, thus no “tank”. So, yes, any nerf to the ability to dodge is bad.

They started out with that model and discovered it makes for terrible gear diversity and dodge-spam>Everything gameplay.

They started out with that model and are still using this model.

Star Ace.5207:

thefantasticg.3984:

They made my Gaurdian and Mesmer look better for sure with this patch.

By the way, the game is built around doing as much damage possible as fast as possible while mitgating it through dodging/evade. That’s what happened when they decided not to go with the traditional trinity, thus no “tank”. So, yes, any nerf to the ability to dodge is bad.

This is your perception of the game-I just don’t think ANet understood most people would boil it down just as you did. IMHO they felt it was liberating, letting players choose different playstyles rather than just focusing on DPS. Ultimately (and sadly to some extent) most encounters can be trivialized by a group focusing on DPS with some choice utilities and strategies. In short, for most group encounters in the game, it seems to be that way, but I am 100% ANet does not agree with the “no trinity=only DPS matters” stance (or “PvE is DPS, other stats are for PvP” which they have never stated anywhere.)

On topic, I didn’t like that nerf myself because dodges are always useful regardless gear choice, be it “bunker” or DPS. I admit I never used any other vigor traits, because I prefer my endurance to regenerate slowly than an on-demand Vigor boon. Right now not even using it, though there are still myriads of ways a Ranger can have lots of survivability, Vigor or otherwise.

Until they go to the traditional trinity DPS will always be king. That is why this patch is lackluster for me except for the LB buff and stealth buff. I’m going to trait to do the most damage I can as fast as I can with my ranger. I going to run kittened pets that only do the highest damage since CC doesn’t matter in PVE/dungeons.

It’s the same thing in PVP except you’re doing it with conditions instead of with direct damage. Spam conditions = as much damage as possible as fast as possible. And if you can dodge those hits you can dodge those conditions.

Nihevil.8024:

If you’re out of range: he’s probably out of range as well

You realize you’re talking about GUARDIANS, right? Arguably the most piddle-poor ranged weapon set in the game (one choice: Scepters, and man does that auto attack suck). And a Mesmer at max range telegraphs their big hits to the point of absurdity.

Objects don’t hit back.

Almost the entire map of Orr begs to differ . But then again I’ve actually leveled a Guardian with that trait and I know kitten well which threats will NEVER proc Vigor.

L2use different stat combinations to get that desired crit chance and it does not have a serious impact on which weapons you have to use.

L2Use weapons. The weapon you use sets the tempo of your hits. That in turn puts an unavoidable floor on the delay before your next attempt to hit after the trait comes off cooldown, and a more distinct gap if that first hit isn’t a crit before you get your next try. The trait is sound with 1-h sword and dog poo with hammer. Stat combos have nothing to do with that aspect.

I get how the trait looks great on paper. The reality is FAR from the perma-vigor people ascribe to it. And keep in mind every single thing you said you could do to offset those drawbacks? Rangers don’t even have to bother, because their bonus in-flow of Endurance just doesn’t care about anything going on in the world around you.

So, yes, the change is a nerf and a tangible one. I for one hope it actually strips away some of the veneer of ‘tolerable performance’ Rangers seem to have in the eyes of the Devs and forces them to confront the class is fundamentally mangled and needs a far more serious overhaul. The problems with this class aren’t about whether or not they dodge-spam like a big boy, the problem is being chained to a class mechanic that doesn’t work, having terrible condition removal in a viciously condition heavy meta, and being presented as a “ranged class” in a game that takes a big malodorous dump on anyone of any class that tries to play from range.

Pick you battles. This one isn’t worth fighting them over.

thefantasticg.3984:

They started out with that model and are still using this model.

Strolling past the broken corpses of glass cannons on the third floor of the Tower of Nightmares makes me think they are exploring a number of ways to dissuade ’Zerker-uber-alles.

Dodge this: tick-tick-tick-tick…

Duka.1932:

Prysin.8542:

avalanchegamer.9675:

Warrior = Usain Bolt
Thief = Hollow Man
Mesmer = Binary Fission + Hollow Man
Ranger =??

All other classes have something to defend themselves and the only thing I had was the Ranger evade …. 8s can even be good in sPvP but is very WvWvW this nerf is the same as taking 1 clone of the Mesmer limit the invisibility of Thief.

What is your logic? Being Longbow damage is less at close range?? You need some lessons of physics …

You will never tanking as a Warrior or Guardian and focus on your damage will be hard as ridiculous.

ANet is destroying the Ranger and increasingly it becomes useless in WvWvW.

Gonna rain on your parade here.
With a BM bunker build, you can easily without issues or problems out-tank and destroy any and all warriors you face in a 1v1. And if you fail to do so, it is your own fault.
Let me elaborate;
If you spec 0/0/10/30/30 you get vigor on heal, 25% passive endurance regen, 35% increased chance for spirit proc, spirits unbound and natures voice, in addition to this you get -20% pet F2 CD, Vigor on Pet Swap and Natural Healing (passive heal 125/3sec for player, 125/sec for pet).
If you do like me, and run with Signet of the Wild, Signet of Renewal and Guard, you can get more condition cleanses then you need, add in the new healing spirit and you get so much healing power and regen that whatever pet you choose should not die even if the pet get focused by the warrior/guard. If you also happen to run with birds or cats, your DPS will be tremendously higher then ANY warrior or guard. As those kitten birds can easily do 2x 1200 damage on their AA. In addition to providing a blind-on-demand.
If you use Sword + Dagger and Shortbow with a Apoth build, and use +40% condi duration food, you can have 100% uptime of poison, which means they get their healing nerfed by 33%. And if your warrior run the dreaded regen build that has up to 900hp/sec healing, you literally nerf that down to 600 by using poison alone. Now, given that any bunker build can easily do 3-400 direct damage + condition damage, and pets do loads of damage ontop of this, you realize that a warrior or guard in tank spec does not hold a candle to a ranger.

a bunker ranger is way more OP then any other bunker build short of ele bunker.

could please elaborate further?
i would like to know how you plan to get rid of all those conditions?
it looks a little tricky for me, you use the soldier runes to get rid of 1 condition every 12s, 1 condition every 10s from sigil… Thats more then enough? Yeah sure every 60s you get rid of all conditions.
w/o EB .. makes me really wonder…
you outlast that 600 regen with 128 regen and those procs you get…wont you miss troll urgent or is that new spirit that awesome? Which traits do you pick? Since you use 1 shout, do you pick natures voice or do you pick spirits unbound? Dunno, if last one makes sense or even first one..

dunno, i might miss something…

thanks it advance…i would like to play my ranger again but i just cant see how one could play w/o EB.

edit: ups, forgot they moved the spirits unbound to lower tier, sorry!

if we keep discussing Ranger Vs warrior/guardian, then conditions are not an issue. The warrior, except the OP perplexity (insert any profession here), has little to no means of applying conditions in such a manner that it hurts. LB warriors are only really good when applying burning. Which is one condition.

This is why i run Signet of Renewal. Couple that with a brown bear if you really have to get rid of the conditions. Personally, i prefer to just out-heal the damage all-together.

Could somebody do me a favour? Right now I can’t create new topics (don’t know how long it’ll be). Would be nice if someone could create a topic about Winter’s Bite tooltip bug in the bug section.

The weakness duration was added to the tooltip but instead of showing the duration applied by my pet it shows the duration as it would be applied by me (it takes my additional condition duration, not the pet’s). The duration is working as it should – it’s just the tooltip.

Sollith.3502:

Obviously those in support of a vigor nerf are from the oldschool era where the gameplay was much much slower. Yes, lets just slow down the pace of the game just for you old geezers out there because you can’t react and plan in time to counter a players evasive options.

Its not about reaction speed – the individual dodges are just as demanding.

It’s about occasionally killing your gung-ho backside for not sinking so much as a single stat point into survivability. And under the pre-Dec 10 patch why should you since you could dodge everything of consequences and self-heal through what little remained.

If anything it speeds up the game. Because now you might actually get hammered by a big hit because you don’t have yet another dodge in your pocket.

Taku.6352:

Solandri.9640:

avalanchegamer.9675:

Do you think we can be with this tank ? ?
Wilderness Survival XII -Bark Skin : Increased the damage reduction from 30 % to 50 %

That is one of if not the best ranger buff in this patch.

Previously, it did 30% damage reduction when under 25% hp. So it was like getting an extra .75 + .25 / (1 – .3) = 1.107 = 11% extra hp.

Now it’s 50% damage reduction when under 25% hp. .75 + .25 / (1 – .5) = 1.25 = 25% extra hp.

A GM trait giving 25% extra hp would make it one of the best traits in the game. If it only worked against condition damage. Still it’s nothing to sneeze at.

With the amount of condition spam going on atm it will always be better to take emphatic bond over bark skin if you go 30 into wilderness survival.

Indeed, but bark skin is definitely great for PvE, which, let’s not forgot, is more or less 1/2 of the game.

Nike.2631:

thefantasticg.3984:

They started out with that model and are still using this model.

Strolling past the broken corpses of glass cannons on the third floor of the Tower of Nightmares makes me think they are exploring a number of ways to dissuade ’Zerker-uber-alles.

Dodge this: tick-tick-tick-tick…

I played zerker ranger, war, and gaurdian through the tower with very little problems unless I went all LJ and ran into mobs wrecklessly. Like anything else the Devs have come up with it is a matter of timing the dodging. They can’t get rid of their current model without bringing in the trinity. They are simply trying to make up for not having a trinity. This doesn’t make dodging to mitgate damage any less important, it only makes it more important. Also, the best way to get through the tower was huge zerg or five man or less team. Either way it was mostly about running by all the ads that didn’t need to be completed to advance (like running by mobs in dungeons) or steamrolling with DPS…. Like much of the content in this game.

Nike.2631:

thefantasticg.3984:

They started out with that model and are still using this model.

Strolling past the broken corpses of glass cannons on the third floor of the Tower of Nightmares makes me think they are exploring a number of ways to dissuade ’Zerker-uber-alles.

Dodge this: tick-tick-tick-tick…

You’ll still die on a pure knights/pvt/clerics build if you play stupid and train every mob on the floor.

Saw plenty of good zerkers just saw through the floors like wheat threshers when playing smart.

The only place they have even remotely tried to discourage zerk gear is the tequatl fight where you can’t afford to spend time trying to kite damage and where zerk gear doesn’t mater because you can’t crit on him anymore.