Guild Wars 2

Original topic https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Pax-Prime-and-Guild-Wars-2

JonathanSharp.7094:

Balance: We are being VERY careful w/ balance between now and the tournament so you guys don’t have builds changing every patch. This is why we did the larger balance patch last month – we wanted to do smaller and smaller changes as we get closer to the tourney. We know there is a perception that a few things are too strong right now, so we’ll be looking at those between now and the tourney.

Still several ranger traits, skills and weapons equals to a more or less horrible mess even after their big balance patch and we would need quite a lot loving to get things to work properly in PvE and WvW. Sharp’s statement about small changes makes me kinda feel hopeless since they can’t seem to realize we have lots of problems outside of sPvP :<

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Next-update-may-be-a-ways-off/first#post2409673

This is the only thread they’ve even responded to the Skill Changes issue in

…and it’s in the sPvP section (surprise surprise)…
This gives everyone 1 of 2 options:

• Bomb that thread with questions about when we’re getting skill splits but just get Moderated instead and probably no further responses…
• Go to Bellevue in person now, or PAX in August & demand an answer from one of them

.

historically…. like I’ve already said before… They didn’t do anything meaningful about the core problems in PvE in the first game until 2007. So that was atleast 2 years of over-focus on sPvP and umm… 4-1/2 years before they finally added their first skill splits?? … which they STILL failed to use enough of when it came to the poor neglected pve-Paragon and to a lesser degree Rangers. (they’re both STILL in a fairly broken state which probably explains why Rangers & Shout-Warriors alike are still not widely accepted in Dungeon & BL teams)

i have allrdy raged in this topic…

im totaly sad because ranger not viable again and this till end august.
and for the teletabi rangers who think he is atm rly good. NO HE IS NOT

ilr.9675:

historically…. like I’ve already said before… They didn’t do anything meaningful about the core problems in PvE in the first game until 2007. So that was atleast 2 years of over-focus on sPvP and umm… 4-1/2 years before they finally added their first skill splits?? … which they STILL failed to use enough of when it came to the poor neglected pve-Paragon and to a lesser degree Rangers. (they’re both STILL in a fairly broken state which probably explains why Rangers & Shout-Warriors alike are still not widely accepted in Dungeon & BL teams)

Rangers not viable in GW1? No. Sorry. Rangers were and are still very viable. You’re spot on on the Paragon, though. Paras were IMBA or not taken at all. Rangers, however, were taken for many builds and for their unique utilities. Ever tried running Slaver’s Exile without a ranger running Frozen Soil? GL!

SynfulChaot.3169:

Rangers not viable in GW1? No. Sorry. Rangers were and are still very viable. You’re spot on on the Paragon, though. Paras were IMBA or not taken at all. Rangers, however, were taken for many builds and for their unique utilities. Ever tried running Slaver’s Exile without a ranger running Frozen Soil? GL!

Rangers tended to run full non-ranger skill bars (SoS) and all the times ranger skills were needed (Winter, Frozen Soil, EoE) it was taken by ranger secondary.

Except for the PvP builds which over the years only changed a few skills to adjust to the powercreep that came with expansions. Anyway, the place Rangers truly shined in GW1 was PvP. Everything else was basically done better by other professions, or just a gimmick build. For instance; UW trapping? 55 Monks did it better and in most cases faster. Even when they were later replaced by a team of 1 Monk and 1 Necromancer, the speed made up for the fact you wouldn’t run it solo anymore. Don’t even bring up their PvP alternatives like Bunny Thumpers or Touch Rangers…

Anyway back on topic; by looking at the past patches and seeing how there’s really a lack of direction with the buffs/nerfs being thrown all around, I personally lost faith the class is going anywhere I’d want it to be (atleast on a short term.) So I’m leveling a Mesmer.
I’m going to get my Ranger full Celestial armor just to make sure I don’t have to change gear around again when the next patch hits (and thereafter…) But I’m not enjoying it as much as I did before, so unless ANet somehow miraculously restores my faith in the Ranger profession, I’m sticking to my alts.

Sandpit.3467:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Rangers not viable in GW1? No. Sorry. Rangers were and are still very viable. You’re spot on on the Paragon, though. Paras were IMBA or not taken at all. Rangers, however, were taken for many builds and for their unique utilities. Ever tried running Slaver’s Exile without a ranger running Frozen Soil? GL!

Rangers tended to run full non-ranger skill bars (SoS) and all the times ranger skills were needed (Winter, Frozen Soil, EoE) it was taken by ranger secondary.

While SoS and SoGM builds were quite popular, there were several mostly ranger skill builds as well. I know that both Burning Arrow and Splinter Barrage builds remained highly viable in PvE content. And all the times I saw ranger secondaries try running those ranger skills, the players could never keep the kitten things alive long enough as they didn’t have the skills to do so.

Also a ranger gave up nothing to run those skills. Most other classes gave up their secondary profession, and related skills, to do so. Yes, the ranger was a toolbox class. They were often around for specific skills and their ability to use those skills without sacrificing their other capabilities. That is a strong reason to keep one around. Which most did.

All I know is that in GW1 I never once was not taken for a group in lieu of something else (the requisite 2 healers aside). I had the group utility and ability to run many builds. That is just how rangers were in GW1. They were always viable.

I think there were mentions of a PvE buff for pet and spirit health. Regardless of a tournament, any PvE splits they make shouldn’t matter and can be implemented.

@SynfulChatot why would you bring a ranger for Frozen Soil? Just change your secondary to ranger and bring it, fitting one or two ranger spirits onto a bar really wasn’t that big of a sacrifice, especially if it meant you didn’t have to bring a ranger and could instead bring another ele or mesmer. It wasn’t hard for rits to slot in a ranger spirit either. Bows were underpowered in GW1 PvE. The end game was all about AoE (instead of making mobs harder/smarter they just increased the numbers you faced) and classes that had weaker AoE skills didn’t get invited into the meta. Splinter Barrage was the only gimmick rangers had left in GW1 (aside from abandoning bows all together and running spirit spam or Destructive Was Glaive) and it was generally considered weaker than other more powerful builds (like Searing Flames or anything mesmers did after their buff).

Bow rangers were a one trick pony and it wasn’t even the best trick in the game (when you consider that you could run DwG, it often wasn’t even the best trick the ranger could run). I know for certain that the majority of speed clear groups for certain areas (such as DoA) never brought bow rangers at times.

Burning Arrow isn’t an end game build. AoE was the name of the game and AoE burning was provided by Searing Flames. Condition damage was generally pretty weak in GW1 (I know, you’re shocked) when direct damage was so much better at nuking enemies down and despite Burning Arrow having great direct damage, it was too limited as a single target spike skill. When there are 12 mobs bashing your party in, Burning Arrow isn’t going to cut it, you need Panic, Energy Surge, Searing Flames and all the other OP AoE skills that eles and then later on mesmers were given (hell, mesmers were given an AoE knockdown on a short cool down that fit into a build that sidestepped increased armour of hard mode because it did armor ignoring damage).

Unlike spirits in GW2, in GW1 they had a huge radius to give their effects so spirits could be safely used. If survivability was an issue, aside from the advantage of 1-3 attributes from runes boosting them, ritualists would be better at running spirits due to Spawning Power and the likelyness of them already running Summon Spirits to pull them out of attacks (I never saw GW1 spirits having survivability issues though).

I’m glad you were never once passed over in a group. When it came to end game farming, I was constantly passed over.

SynfulChaot.3169:

All I know is that in GW1 I never once was not taken for a group in lieu of something else (the requisite 2 healers aside). I had the group utility and ability to run many builds. That is just how rangers were in GW1. They were always viable.

Many times I couldn’t get into groups on my ranger, and sadly it is now happening now in GW2

Shiren.9532:

@SynfulChaot why would you bring a ranger for Frozen Soil? Just change your secondary to ranger and bring it, fitting one or two ranger spirits onto a bar really wasn’t that big of a sacrifice, especially if it meant you didn’t have to bring a ranger and could instead bring another ele or mesmer. It wasn’t hard for rits to slot in a ranger spirit either. Bows were underpowered in GW1 PvE. The end game was all about AoE (instead of making mobs harder/smarter they just increased the numbers you faced) and classes that had weaker AoE skills didn’t get invited into the meta. Splinter Barrage was the only gimmick rangers had left in GW1 (aside from abandoning bows all together and running spirit spam or Destructive Was Glaive) and it was generally considered weaker than other more powerful builds (like Searing Flames or anything mesmers did after their buff).

Honestly the only bow builds I often ran were Burning Arrow and Splinter Barrage. AoE wasn’t all the end-game was, but it was a large portion of it. For that there was Splinter Barrage and DWG builds (I preferred Splinter). And Burning Arrow was great for single target pressure. Good against bosses and stuff; for killing them before the rest of the group they were in. Yes, the AoE builds were weaker than Searing Flames, but you’re comparing to the best there. Don’t compare a middle-of-the-road class to the top one for something. It will just undermine the comparison.

Shiren.9532:

Bow rangers were a one trick pony and it wasn’t even the best trick in the game (when you consider that you could run DwG, it often wasn’t even the best trick the ranger could run). I know for certain that the majority of speed clear groups for certain areas (such as DoA) never brought bow rangers at times.

I never ran speed clears. I ran pickup HM instances as those are a bit too difficult for hero soloing. And, yes, in groups I often ran SoS/SoGM as it was more demanded. But at least with those builds, we did have a place in the meta.

Shiren.9532:

Burning Arrow isn’t an end game build. AoE was the name of the game and AoE burning was provided by Searing Flames. Condition damage was generally pretty weak in GW1 (I know, you’re shocked) when direct damage was so much better at nuking enemies down and despite Burning Arrow having great direct damage, it was too limited as a single target spike skill. When there are 12 mobs bashing your party in, Burning Arrow isn’t going to cut it, you need Panic, Energy Surge, Searing Flames and all the other OP AoE skills that eles and then later on mesmers were given (hell, mesmers were given an AoE knockdown on a short cool down that fit into a build that sidestepped increased armour of hard mode because it did armor ignoring damage).

Not shocked. Conditions in GW1 were not for direct killing. They were for pressure. For weakening the opponent so the direct damagers could kill them. And few other builds could apply single target pressure as consistently and for as long as the Burning Arrow build due to Expertise. Also remember that Burning Arrow builds also applied poison so it tended to max out degen at the full 10 pips.

Yes, those other skills that eles and mesmers brought were more crucial to combat. But the ranger, with what it can bring (even with Burning Arrow builds), could still contribute greatly enough to not be looked over.

Shiren.9532:

Unlike spirits in GW2, in GW1 they had a huge radius to give their effects so spirits could be safely used. If survivability was an issue, aside from the advantage of 1-3 attributes from runes boosting them, ritualists would be better at running spirits due to Spawning Power and the likelyness of them already running Summon Spirits to pull them out of attacks (I never saw GW1 spirits having survivability issues though).

If they increased GW2 spirits range to how they are in GW1, then the lower health would make sense. But with the decreased range of effect, and the internal cooldown after it procs once and for only one player, GW2 spirits are but a shadow of their former glory.

Yes, rits could put out spirits that could take more hits. But rangers could put spirits out faster and cheaper. Rit spiritmaster builds could run out of energy far faster than ranger spiritmasters, even with the ranger needing to replace spirits more often. And all good ranger spiritmasters ran Summon Spirits. And with a ranger running a SoS/SoGM build, that freed the rits up for builds that they could run better. DWG, resto, and preservation builds, the latter two of which the ranger was incapable of running effectively.

Shiren.9532:

I’m glad you were never once passed over in a group. When it came to end game farming, I was constantly passed over.

Sandpit.3467:

Many times I couldn’t get into groups on my ranger, and sadly it is now happening now in GW2

If you’re talking of farming, then no the ranger had little place unless they were solo farming. But at farming there were only a couple builds for a couple classes that were considered viable.

Ranger in GW1 wasn’t at the top of the heap, but it wasn’t at the bottom either. It was firmly in the middle and it was often capable of getting groups. Here, in GW2, we’re firmly at the bottom and rarely don’t have trouble joining groups.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Ever tried running Slaver’s Exile without a ranger running Frozen Soil? GL!

Actually I have, several times…as well as Vloxens that was infested with even more Summit. But I’d also point out you never needed a Ranger just to keep Frozen up anyway. Usually your SpiritSpammer or MOP Necro dropped it.

…in any case…
looks like this is as close as we’re getting to some kind of recognition from the Devs.
The phrase “missing the entire point” comes to mind here following that conversation

ilr.9675:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Ever tried running Slaver’s Exile without a ranger running Frozen Soil? GL!

Actually I have, several times…as well as Vloxens. But I’d also point out you never needed a Ranger just to keep Frozen up anyway. Usually your SpiritSpammer or MOP Necro dropped it.

In that instance, most rangers are spirit spammers. But it is brutal without FS.

ilr.9675:

looks like this is as close as we’re getting to some kind of recognition from the Devs.
The “missing the entire point” comes to mind here following that conversation….

Yeah. Unfortunately that reply seems typical of them as of late. I don’t think they realize that they’re almost at the one year mark and people will start being a lot more critical of such a crucial thing as class balance. Especially with a few notable and hyped MMOs around the corner.

It seems like they are risking losing a lot of playerbase just to chase the eSports thing.

Sandpit.3467:

Every time a dev posts it just proves they don’t care and haven’t got a clue that other forms than PvP even exist in this game.

Note that all the dev posts about class balance have been by the PvP guys. Where are the PvE balance devs? Do they exist?

What happened to the rangers was this. TY for your money thinking we will balance this class out. Now that your even worse in dungeons and wvw and nerfed in spvp with the whole class. We can now continue to show other classes their Op against a kitten Ai and a low damage player.

—ty ANET FOR NEVER LISTENING TO ITS PLAYER BASE.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Sandpit.3467:

Every time a dev posts it just proves they don’t care and haven’t got a clue that other forms than PvP even exist in this game.

Note that all the dev posts about class balance have been by the PvP guys. Where are the PvE balance devs? Do they exist?

No, there are none. The entirety of the game is balanced according to the PvP needs. Since the PvP needs are only about controlling nodes, this means that the “balance” is nearly non-existent. As long as one profession can’t control two nodes at once, or move the spirit watch orb unreasonably fast, nothing is going to change.

I understand they want the game to be an e-sport. This means that the needs of the 90% of non-pvp players will ALWAYS come second, if at all, to the needs of that 10% that Anet can show off in videos to rub their kitten about the e-sport they’ve produced.

SynfulChaot.3169:

ilr.9675:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Ever tried running Slaver’s Exile without a ranger running Frozen Soil? GL!

Actually I have, several times…as well as Vloxens. But I’d also point out you never needed a Ranger just to keep Frozen up anyway. Usually your SpiritSpammer or MOP Necro dropped it.

In that instance, most rangers are spirit spammers. But it is brutal without FS.

ilr.9675:

looks like this is as close as we’re getting to some kind of recognition from the Devs.
The “missing the entire point” comes to mind here following that conversation….

Yeah. Unfortunately that reply seems typical of them as of late. I don’t think they realize that they’re almost at the one year mark and people will start being a lot more critical of such a crucial thing as class balance. Especially with a few notable and hyped MMOs around the corner.

It seems like they are risking losing a lot of playerbase just to chase the eSports thing.

Actually you would use a rit over a ranger to do spiritspamming and frozen soil, because rits could have more effective ritualist spirits (using the rit runes which rangers couldn’t use) and to use FS effectively you wouldn’t need to spec too far into WS, so rits/ necros were the better choice in those situations. Also, rits could effectively do splinter barrage as well, due to the runes that gave them +attribute, which made splinter weapon deal more damage the ranger could make it do.

In this game, I believe rangers need to be paid more attention to, especially in dungeons/fractals.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Shiren.9532:

I’m glad you were never once passed over in a group. When it came to end game farming, I was constantly passed over.

Sandpit.3467:

Many times I couldn’t get into groups on my ranger, and sadly it is now happening now in GW2

If you’re talking of farming, then no the ranger had little place unless they were solo farming. But at farming there were only a couple builds for a couple classes that were considered viable.

Ranger in GW1 wasn’t at the top of the heap, but it wasn’t at the bottom either. It was firmly in the middle and it was often capable of getting groups. Here, in GW2, we’re firmly at the bottom and rarely don’t have trouble joining groups.

Well here is where we differ. I had every class at level 20 with all skills unlocked and access to all areas in the game. If I wanted a spirit spammer I brought my rit. As much as I wanted my ranger to be competitive with the other classes and have a reason to play my ranger as a ranger it was rarely ever the case. The ranger weapon in GW1 was the bow and the bow was terrible at end game aside from one build (I don’t consider splinter barrage viable for elite areas, HM and maybe even casual dungeon groups – I personally did most of HM with a spear chuck ranger and a pet, but when group spots aren’t “anything goes” Burning Arrow is just not good enough). Rangers were forced to play as lesser versions of other classes to get into groups (spirits etc) rather than use bows.

Fast forward to GW2 where the pet is now compulsory. I assumed this would mean the pet would be an awesome rewarding mechanic that not only worked, but was fun, deep and meaningful, it would impact how you controlled your ranger in more ways than just being a face tanking pet or an off spec source of direct damage in a DPS build. You would have skills or mechanic which worked parallel to the pet, cool things you could do that you couldn’t do without the pet (like combination attacks or a ranger skill which changed based on pet species or weapon skills which worked in tandem with the pet or any other mechanic that affected the ranger himself to account for the pet). All we got was an NPC ally that accounted for power level of the class without truly changing how it plays (aside from turning you into a babysitter and playing a min-game as a GW2 monk, watching the pet health bar). I though making the pet would force the devs to design the pet properly, that the pet would be more than just an NPC ally. So far I would say I was wrong.

I also though the removal of secondary professions was great for the class because the class would be forced to stand on its own feet. We wouldn’t be seeing rangers running spirit builds to get into groups, the developers would be forced to make ranger builds competitive and viable. The excuse that rangers had viable builds running secondary professions skills would no longer work. Bows would finally be good weapons, things that can compete with the best weapons out there. I was disappointed to find that the highest DPS weapon is hindered by a PvP design decision (sword control issues) and a bizarre design decision to make ranged weapons unable to compete with melee in terms of DPS resulting in them rapidly becoming obsolete as the meta matures and bosses die in a matter of seconds. Once again bow rangers are rejected by the meta and supported by the design decisions of the devs. Knowing that every time you run a bow you are making content harder for your group is a really sucky feeling.

I abondened hope long ago, saves me a lot of anguish.

The day my SB can’t hit a single target below while defending keeps when my LB skills was on cd is the day i start loving my Ranger all over again from my previous mmo

edit: GW2 Ranger’s Bows = lolz

Status.7928:

Actually you would use a rit over a ranger to do spiritspamming and frozen soil, because rits could have more effective ritualist spirits (using the rit runes which rangers couldn’t use) and to use FS effectively you wouldn’t need to spec too far into WS, so rits/ necros were the better choice in those situations. Also, rits could effectively do splinter barrage as well, due to the runes that gave them +attribute, which made splinter weapon deal more damage the ranger could make it do.

In this game, I believe rangers need to be paid more attention to, especially in dungeons/fractals.

Rit spirits would have more health, so that enabled you to use your spirits as a wall. Ranger spirits could not effectively do that. But rangers ran spirits better than rits, IMHO, when you didn’t need to use them as a wall due to being able to cast them more often and more cheaply.

I preferred SoS builds on my ranger and SoGM builds on my rits as those ones played better to the strengths of each class.

Would have the pet mechanic changed, so that we can be given a trait which swaps the pet in for all 4 traps. Bingo, we have no created a mid-line support class, which can still use its utilities to keep itself up.

SynfulChaot.3169:

[…]But rangers ran spirits better than rits, IMHO, when you didn’t need to use them as a wall due to being able to cast them more often and more cheaply.[…]

No offense, but that logic only made sense when a GW1 PvE ranger was attempting to justify a spot in a group for anything perceived as remotely challenging. Most spirits were on a thirty to forty-five second cool down, couple this with ‘Spirit Syphon’, ‘Summon Spirits’ and the fact 3 spirits were derived via a signet and any channelling ritualist could manage spirit up-time equally if not better than the perceived energy management benefits from ranger’s Expertise.

This is ignoring the fact that a PvE ritualist could attain 16 attribute points in channelling making everything in that line more powerful – including ‘Spirit Syphon’. Assuming a channelling ritualist was not selfish and avoided ‘Communing’ opening up a slot for an additional spirit spammer; the subsequent heavy investment in ‘Spawning Power’ not only increased spirit health but increased weapon spell duration allowing a ritualist to front load, on to a couple of physical-based party members, ridiculously powerful weapon spells like ‘Splinter Weapon’ and ‘Great Dwarf Weapon’.

In my opinion, there is an ironic reminiscence between the GW2 and GW1 ranger with regards to PvE, their presence in a PuG very much dependent on group tolerance rather than some objective desire to add one.

Fyrehawk.1674:

SynfulChaot.3169:

[…]But rangers ran spirits better than rits, IMHO, when you didn’t need to use them as a wall due to being able to cast them more often and more cheaply.[…]

No offense, but that logic only made sense when a GW1 PvE ranger was attempting to justify a spot in a group for anything perceived as remotely challenging. Most spirits were on a thirty to forty-five second cool down, couple this with ‘Spirit Syphon’, ‘Summon Spirits’ and the fact 3 spirits were derived via a signet and any channelling ritualist could manage spirit up-time equally if not better than the perceived energy management benefits from ranger’s Expertise.

This is ignoring the fact that a PvE ritualist could attain 16 attribute points in channelling making everything in that line more powerful – including ‘Spirit Syphon’. Assuming a channelling ritualist was not selfish and avoided ‘Communing’ opening up a slot for an additional spirit spammer; the subsequent heavy investment in ‘Spawning Power’ not only increased spirit health but increased weapon spell duration allowing a ritualist to front load, on to a couple of physical-based party members, ridiculously powerful weapon spells like ‘Splinter Weapon’ and ‘Great Dwarf Weapon’.

In my opinion, there is an ironic reminiscence between the GW2 and GW1 ranger with regards to PvE, their presence in a PuG very much dependent on group tolerance rather than some objective desire to add one.

Longest cooldown for SoS builds was about 30 seconds. SoGM builds had only one spirit with a 45 second cooldown. The rest were 30. And even with Spirit Siphon, the lowered cost of certain expensive spirits (such as "Dissonance"http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dissonance) with Expertise allowed a ranger to reliably get them out every time.

Yes, a rit could do more than a ranger with spirit builds. But the main SoS and SoGM ranger builds were used often due to the high spirit uptime due to Expertise. Outside of those specific builds rits did do ritualist spirits better. But with those specific builds, I still feel rangers were superior.

Most accurately stated, it is that rangers had a place in the meta. They were not top, no. But they were still powerful and could field many different viable builds. They were a ‘toolbox’ class. They were what you needed them to be. They could run spirits very effectively. They could run pressure. They could run AoE. They could run spike. Regardless of where you were going, a ranger would be a boon.

That is very different from GW2 PvE, where there is practically animosity towards any that would dare to take a ranger into a dungeon.

Fyrehawk.1674:

SynfulChaot.3169:

[…]But rangers ran spirits better than rits, IMHO, when you didn’t need to use them as a wall due to being able to cast them more often and more cheaply.[…]

No offense, but that logic only made sense when a GW1 PvE ranger was attempting to justify a spot in a group for anything perceived as remotely challenging. Most spirits were on a thirty to forty-five second cool down, couple this with ‘Spirit Syphon’, ‘Summon Spirits’ and the fact 3 spirits were derived via a signet and any channelling ritualist could manage spirit up-time equally if not better than the perceived energy management benefits from ranger’s Expertise.

This is ignoring the fact that a PvE ritualist could attain 16 attribute points in channelling making everything in that line more powerful – including ‘Spirit Syphon’. Assuming a channelling ritualist was not selfish and avoided ‘Communing’ opening up a slot for an additional spirit spammer; the subsequent heavy investment in ‘Spawning Power’ not only increased spirit health but increased weapon spell duration allowing a ritualist to front load, on to a couple of physical-based party members, ridiculously powerful weapon spells like ‘Splinter Weapon’ and ‘Great Dwarf Weapon’.

In my opinion, there is an ironic reminiscence between the GW2 and GW1 ranger with regards to PvE, their presence in a PuG very much dependent on group tolerance rather than some objective desire to add one.

To be fair, by the time EotN came out the game was in such a kitten poor state it was not much of a surprise that things turned out how they did. They never addressed the prevelance of discord/cryway or did anything about permasins making the game a joke.

Hell, I never even fought the destroyer at the end of EotN. I like most everyone else just stood there while a fifty five soloed the thing.

I never really thought ill of them for it because I knew they had checked out and were focusing on GW2 which is why it’s so bad to see it here as well when they have no excuse.

SynfulChaot.3169:

[…]Most accurately stated, it is that rangers had a place in the meta. […] Regardless of where you were going, a ranger would be a boon. […]

Indeed, they were such a boon they were precluded from any half sensible PvE team make-up and even PvE PuGs would frequently wait on another profession to turn up rather than take the already present ranger(s), unless said rangers proactively initiated setting up a group. In GW1’s twilight era prior to the seven-hero update the LFG tool only highlighted the wider community’s apathy towards the PvE ranger, understandably so.

It was not that the GW1 ranger was in a critical state in PvE, hell after the seven-hero update you could run a four-way ranger bow team set-up and still complete the last section of Slaver’s Exile on hard mode in a respectable time. It was the fact that other professions were simply better in achieving a desired role than what the ‘toolbox’ ranger could offer. Other professions could achieve the same result without having to have another part of the team built around their presence or could deliver better results with such synergy (e.g. warrior).

I will politely step away from this particular aspect of the discussion at this point. Other than to make the closing personal view that there is a perverse echoing of issues and community attitude pertaining to the PvE ranger from GW1’s latter years into GW2.

I’m sorry but how does a Ranger trading spirit health and damage for lower energy costs make the Ranger better at Spirit builds when Rits never had energy problems with spirit builds?

Levetty.1279:

I’m sorry but how does a Ranger trading spirit health and damage for lower energy costs make the Ranger better at Spirit builds when Rits never had energy problems with spirit builds?

With proper placement and use of Summon Spirits you could mitigate most of the incoming damage making the higher health of spirits mostly unnecessary. And when you were too slow on the summon, the damage spikes would often kill the spirits, even if they were boosted by Spawning Power.

As for the energy? Rits can run out of energy in protracted combat due to the more expensive summons and their other attack skills. Never once as a ranger did I ever run out of energy.

And before you assume I didn’t play both … I did. A rit was one of my primary alt charas, made when I started Factions shortly after it released. Still one of my favorites. Mostly for resto/preservation builds. But when it comes to default spirit spamming, I will always prefer my ranger. Never once a complaint.

I still have hope. I’ll wait 8 years. If they can’t fix it by then…I’ll make a thief.