Guild Wars 2

If a weapon has 60% of its skills doing other things than DPS and its auto attack does low DPS, how can that then be classed as a DPS weapon? It makes no sense to do so. If maul was not on GS, it would almost be totally defensive, so with the added burst, it is utility. But lets not argue over nomenclature.

Why isn’t there justification for a damage increase? Been reading this thread and well, I don’t know if I agree with much of what’s said here in regards to the utility strength of GS. The strength of GS is the burst and honestly just ease of use since sword is a pain in the behind. But, Take Sword/Dagger. You have a Hornet’s/monarch for mobility/leap. You have 2X evades with serpent’s strike and stalker’s strike, compare to the evades from auto and swoop plus the block, all defensive tools. Cripple on both as well, I guess you could say GS has a daze that sword doesn’t, but sword has more cripple too, so /shrug.

I want to call GS a defensive weapon, but really the Sword/Dagger combo seems to have just as much potential in that category, but with the caveat that always comes up when discussing the sword, if you can handle it.

GS is just an easy mode weapon with burst capability as I see it. I love it’s play style, but if the reason it can’t have better overall DPS is because it’s easy, well, what about GS War? Necro auto attack being best damage for it, and best example Staff Ele…

If it’s because it has some burst on it, well again, what about all the other weapons that are like that? Guard GS for example with most of it’s power on WW.

I don’t really see justification for keeping GS behind the more I think about it.

Most of us arguing for the utility aspects are not saying that it couldn’t do with more damage, just not at the expense of the other utility and the evade on AA. It’s not like getting more damage on it would be a bad thing, however if they removed the evasion or blocks to give it more damage, it would just be a warrior clone GS.

I can agree with that. Though honestly I feel the AA evade is pretty weak as it’s pretty RNG, though I do like when I can recognize a big attack overlapping that final swing and I don’t need to dodge/block/evade/anything. Not promoting getting rid of it just saying I don’t think it’s all that powerful such that it should hold it back.

If you are competent, S/x is far superior to a GS in almost every scenario for melee, even despite the awkward implementation of Sword skills. The only time I ever use a GS is for map running, then swap it off before combat. If GS auto did more damage if would be more viable for tankier builds that are willing to brawl inside aoe. Generally speaking though, Ranger’s main defense is evasion; being tanky and evading a lot is horrible synergy; there’s no alt weapon set that really does well in a build you would want to run GS.

Maybe GS auto should stack might. And fury.

I think it’s a fair point that s/d is already the evade set. And it happens to do more damage than GS.

GS should do a lot more damage on maul, if the aa is going to stay the same.

Burning a bunch of traits and utilities to do a 5k maul (PvP), that usually misses, is pathetic.

Whirling wrath hits every time and does twice as much damage, without using any utilities.

Probably why Maul is tuned the way it is. In the Devs’ perspective, Whirling Wrath is a DPS skill with an added whirl finisher. For Maul, the Devs probably thought that it should hit hard, but not hard enough because it’s weakening foes with vulnerability, setting them up for you or your teammates to do even more damage to that target.

Haha, oh, boy… I think I’ve watched enough “Ready Ups!” to the point that I’m spouting out those lines of (high) concept.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

If a weapon has 60% of its skills doing other things than DPS and its auto attack does low DPS, how can that then be classed as a DPS weapon? It makes no sense to do so. If maul was not on GS, it would almost be totally defensive, so with the added burst, it is utility. But lets not argue over nomenclature.

By your count necromancer dagger is also not a DPS weapon lol. Most classes in fact have more skills with utility in them and usually either the autoattack or an extra attack skill as DPS.

This is getting tiresome, really.

Captain Unusual.9163:

A wet fish you say?

wet fish can be pretty tough

Wondrouswall.7169:

Probably why Maul is tuned the way it is. In the Devs’ perspective, Whirling Wrath is a DPS skill with an added whirl finisher. For Maul, the Devs probably thought that it should hit hard, but not hard enough because it’s weakening foes with vulnerability, setting them up for you or your teammates to do even more damage to that target.

Haha, oh, boy… I think I’ve watched enough “Ready Ups!” to the point that I’m spouting out those lines of (high) concept.

Its a good thought, but originally maul applied bleeding and not vuln

Yeah. I can’t recall the exact order of changes that happened to Maul. I remember that they changed the bleeding to vulnerability, and another change was a 14% damage increase. Not sure if that was done in the same change or in separate changes.

Edit: So, after forum-diving, here were the changes that happened (in order) for those interested. Also, my recollection was off. Haha!

March 26, 2013

• Increased bleeding duration from 4 seconds to 6 seconds.
• Increased base damage by 26%.

July 23, 2013

• This skill now applies vulnerability instead of bleeding.

and finally, October 15, 2013

• Damage for this skill has been increased by 7%. Vulnerability has been increased from 3 stacks to 5 stacks, and the duration has been increased from 6 seconds to 8 seconds.

I really hope they will announce some Maul buffs anytime soon since there’s some crazy vulnurability stacks coming up for other classes that are way easier to land.
Just look at the Warrior AoE 10x vuln or the crazy guardian Longbow skill.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

If a weapon has 60% of its skills doing other things than DPS and its auto attack does low DPS, how can that then be classed as a DPS weapon? It makes no sense to do so. If maul was not on GS, it would almost be totally defensive, so with the added burst, it is utility. But lets not argue over nomenclature.

A lot of the skills in this game do things other than damage. Every skill on the GS is designed for dps; the fact that people primarily use the gs skills for defense, is in itself an argument as to why the damage should be buffed. The way I see it GS has Swoop as its gap closer and hilt bash to spike/rupt. The only “defensive” skill on the weapon is counterattack, and that is more offensively designed given its name and the active snare in Crippling Throw.

Now these skills can be used defensively of course, thats why they provide utility, but a weapon designed to dps should be buffed when that dps is not comparable to other dps weapons.

One could argue that they don’t want extra damage on the auto in exchange for giving up evasion, but one has to also account for the offensive pressure that you gain from better damage. As is, the only threat on the gs is one of the most telegraphed skills in the game, but a buff to auto could also give it more pressure.

For the comment saying Maul should do more, I’m not so sure about that. From a PVP perspective you want to be careful on how much single hit burst you actually give a skill. It’s one thing to give a channel high damage, where the opponant has more time to react, and but even with Maul having a pretty obvious tell, it’s just WHOMP damage.

If I were to be making changes I’d actually consider the other skills primarily and then auto attack before Maul for that reason. I could see Swoop getting a substantial boost as well as hilt bash. I have to imagine they thought Hilt bash was more solid than it is with the pet buff, but god if pets aren’t pretty weak in the grand scheme of things.

Raise Swoop up to like 1.25-1.5, and raise Hilt bash up to 1 for their coefficients would be a good start IMO. The difference between that and just a maul increase is that it’s spaced out more. You see the ranger come swooping in, easy tell, interrupt/dodge/block/whatever, or get hit by a surprise maul, and well you know he has those skills in his pocket so engage defensive mode… or offensive mode and start with the CC’ing. More counter play, doesn’t overload single skills, doesn’t leave you auto attacking for your best damage.

Anyways, that’s how I’d do it /shrug.

Mcrocha.3891:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

If a weapon has 60% of its skills doing other things than DPS and its auto attack does low DPS, how can that then be classed as a DPS weapon? It makes no sense to do so. If maul was not on GS, it would almost be totally defensive, so with the added burst, it is utility. But lets not argue over nomenclature.

A lot of the skills in this game do things other than damage. Every skill on the GS is designed for dps; the fact that people primarily use the gs skills for defense, is in itself an argument as to why the damage should be buffed. The way I see it GS has Swoop as its gap closer and hilt bash to spike/rupt. The only “defensive” skill on the weapon is counterattack, and that is more offensively designed given its name and the active snare in Crippling Throw.

Now these skills can be used defensively of course, thats why they provide utility, but a weapon designed to dps should be buffed when that dps is not comparable to other dps weapons.

One could argue that they don’t want extra damage on the auto in exchange for giving up evasion, but one has to also account for the offensive pressure that you gain from better damage. As is, the only threat on the gs is one of the most telegraphed skills in the game, but a buff to auto could also give it more pressure.

I think you have no idea what DPS is.

Everything about the greatsword on the ranger is designed for burst damage. Sustained evades to sustain while on cooldowns, two CC’s, an evade, a leap, and a block. And then you have maul, which allows for the biggest damage on a single hit possible in the game. Yes, when traited and gear for properly, Maul can and will hit higher than a full-glass thief’s backstab. Any declaration about the GS being “designed” for DPS is completely arbitrary defined by non-logical reasoning that the skills themselves deal damage.

The greatsword being DPS on other classes has nothing to do with the greatsword’s DPS on the ranger. Sword is one of the ranger’s DPS weapons, Axe actually does more, but on a sinister condi build. Dagger and sword are for the thief, but not for the ele, which instead gets DPS from the scepter. Fun fact, aside from Hundred Blades, the DPS for the warrior is better on Axe than GS. The GS’s auto on the warrior is actually rather weak compared to the Axe’s, and yet the dagger is better for the Necro’s DPS over the axe. And back to the thief again, the optimal DPS weapons change based on the mob’s health. Dagger can only do more than the sword because heartseeker gets crazy scaling below 25%.

A proper example of an offensive spec designed to be offensive is Axe/Axe warrior. There are no defensive components to this set whatsoever, and none of them can really be argued as being useful for defense in regards to mitigating or preventing damage.

So there’s literally no trend here, and your argument is incoherent.

DeceiverX.8361:

I think you have no idea what DPS is.

Incoming expert talk

And then you have maul, which allows for the biggest damage on a single hit possible in the game. Yes, when traited and gear for properly, Maul can and will hit higher than a full-glass thief’s backstab.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
10/10

almost fell for this wonderful bait.

Zenith.7301:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

If a weapon has 60% of its skills doing other things than DPS and its auto attack does low DPS, how can that then be classed as a DPS weapon? It makes no sense to do so. If maul was not on GS, it would almost be totally defensive, so with the added burst, it is utility. But lets not argue over nomenclature.

By your count necromancer dagger is also not a DPS weapon lol. Most classes in fact have more skills with utility in them and usually either the autoattack or an extra attack skill as DPS.

This is getting tiresome, really.

Then stop posting.

Necro dagger is clearly DPS.

If your AA is low damage and includes an evade, and the rest of the skills do better damage and have other functionality, it is not a DPS weapon. It’s a pretty simple concept to grasp.

Jerus.4350:

For the comment saying Maul should do more, I’m not so sure about that. From a PVP perspective you want to be careful on how much single hit burst you actually give a skill. It’s one thing to give a channel high damage, where the opponant has more time to react, and but even with Maul having a pretty obvious tell, it’s just WHOMP damage.

If I were to be making changes I’d actually consider the other skills primarily and then auto attack before Maul for that reason. I could see Swoop getting a substantial boost as well as hilt bash. I have to imagine they thought Hilt bash was more solid than it is with the pet buff, but god if pets aren’t pretty weak in the grand scheme of things.

Raise Swoop up to like 1.25-1.5, and raise Hilt bash up to 1 for their coefficients would be a good start IMO. The difference between that and just a maul increase is that it’s spaced out more. You see the ranger come swooping in, easy tell, interrupt/dodge/block/whatever, or get hit by a surprise maul, and well you know he has those skills in his pocket so engage defensive mode… or offensive mode and start with the CC’ing. More counter play, doesn’t overload single skills, doesn’t leave you auto attacking for your best damage.

Anyways, that’s how I’d do it /shrug.

It’s too late for that. Every other class has far stronger burst skills.

Hell, even ranger has a far stronger skill rapid fire, and its easier to land. And from 1500 range…

You only have to look at maul vs rapid fire to see how crap it is.

DeceiverX.8361:

I think you have no idea what DPS is.

Everything about the greatsword on the ranger is designed for burst damage. Sustained evades to sustain while on cooldowns, two CC’s, an evade, a leap, and a block. And then you have maul, which allows for the biggest damage on a single hit possible in the game. Yes, when traited and gear for properly, Maul can and will hit higher than a full-glass thief’s backstab. Any declaration about the GS being “designed” for DPS is completely arbitrary defined by non-logical reasoning that the skills themselves deal damage.

The greatsword being DPS on other classes has nothing to do with the greatsword’s DPS on the ranger. Sword is one of the ranger’s DPS weapons, Axe actually does more, but on a sinister condi build. Dagger and sword are for the thief, but not for the ele, which instead gets DPS from the scepter. Fun fact, aside from Hundred Blades, the DPS for the warrior is better on Axe than GS. The GS’s auto on the warrior is actually rather weak compared to the Axe’s, and yet the dagger is better for the Necro’s DPS over the axe. And back to the thief again, the optimal DPS weapons change based on the mob’s health. Dagger can only do more than the sword because heartseeker gets crazy scaling below 25%.

A proper example of an offensive spec designed to be offensive is Axe/Axe warrior. There are no defensive components to this set whatsoever, and none of them can really be argued as being useful for defense in regards to mitigating or preventing damage.

So there’s literally no trend here, and your argument is incoherent.

Apparently burst skills don’t contribute to dps, especially not ones on a 6s cd. So let me get this straight. Maul with the right set-up can outspike backstab. This statement on its own is completely false btw. On the other hand, Maul is on a 6s cd and is the hardest hitting spike skill in the game, but GS is not a dps weapon. Please explain that to me so that I may understand what a coherent argument looks like.

I don’t really care to argue this point anymore, but the fact that the coefficients on ranger auto are lower than every other profession is stupid. The fact that it has lower coefficients than the faster attacking sword is stupid. The evasion could be justified on auto bc we are not a heavy class. However, if the dps of the gs is increased to what it should be, then it may warrant removing the evade on either swoop or auto and it may not. That would depend on balance.

I immediately thought of this Monty Python bit when I read the title…

View skit

Sube Dai.8496:

Jerus.4350:

For the comment saying Maul should do more, I’m not so sure about that. From a PVP perspective you want to be careful on how much single hit burst you actually give a skill. It’s one thing to give a channel high damage, where the opponant has more time to react, and but even with Maul having a pretty obvious tell, it’s just WHOMP damage.

If I were to be making changes I’d actually consider the other skills primarily and then auto attack before Maul for that reason. I could see Swoop getting a substantial boost as well as hilt bash. I have to imagine they thought Hilt bash was more solid than it is with the pet buff, but god if pets aren’t pretty weak in the grand scheme of things.

Raise Swoop up to like 1.25-1.5, and raise Hilt bash up to 1 for their coefficients would be a good start IMO. The difference between that and just a maul increase is that it’s spaced out more. You see the ranger come swooping in, easy tell, interrupt/dodge/block/whatever, or get hit by a surprise maul, and well you know he has those skills in his pocket so engage defensive mode… or offensive mode and start with the CC’ing. More counter play, doesn’t overload single skills, doesn’t leave you auto attacking for your best damage.

Anyways, that’s how I’d do it /shrug.

It’s too late for that. Every other class has far stronger burst skills.

Hell, even ranger has a far stronger skill rapid fire, and its easier to land. And from 1500 range…

You only have to look at maul vs rapid fire to see how crap it is.

I believe you missed part of what I wrote. Channels are different in that you see 2 red numbers flash on your screen that quick and chances are you’re wanting to dodge, successfully avoiding a large chunk of that damage. With maul it’s just one thing though, Finish your rapid fire, use the Hunter’s Shot as you run in, weapon swap, start the maul channel and THWAAP, all the damage in one go.

Are there maybe other abilities to be more concerned about /shrug maybe, but I know that’s a concern when it comes to a PVP environment. It better have one stupidly obvious tell if it’s going to be super bursty in a single strike.

EDIT: And it’s not that you can’t do it, it’s just it’s something in general (for all games) you want to be careful with.

Mcrocha.3891:

Maul with the right set-up can outspike backstab. This statement on its own is completely false btw.

I actually know DeceiverX.8361 and he roams with my ranger. The setup he is referring to is what I run(zerk weps rest valk). My highest hit so far is 21k in wvw on a non upleveled and geared mesmer.

The issue isnt getting the damage up there. Its very doable, the problem is landing such damage, reliably and surviving. This type of build has an issue of being binary, you either delete or get deleted or somehow kite for 40 seconds to get cooldowns and try again. It is also pretty bad at zerg combat being basically glass.

If my math is correct, which it has not been wrong so far, the damage is can be much higher than my rage setup with a scholar setup(maxing out at 26.6k mauls on a glass target and 17k on a 3k armored target in wvw) but mind you its impossible to use in any real situation.

Now back to the thread. GS is a burst/utility weapon. It’s auto attack chain sucks, and the only redeeming quality of is its evade. GS auto attack needs to cleave 5 targets not three. It could benefit from a damage increase.

Gs has lower damage skills comparatively to other classes but much lower cooldowns. Gs as a whole is a utility/burst weapon. It’s dps frankly sucks unless the period of damage is within 10 seconds.

Rangers burst does not inherently come from the weapon, but stacking modifiers that we have available for single hits you can get as high as a 8.1x modifier.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Most of us arguing for the utility aspects are not saying that it couldn’t do with more damage, just not at the expense of the other utility and the evade on AA. It’s not like getting more damage on it would be a bad thing, however if they removed the evasion or blocks to give it more damage, it would just be a warrior clone GS.

Well, you’re basically arguing against something you brought up yourself. I don’t think anyone advocating for damage increase said they wanted to remove the evades.

And they wouldn’t. Evades attached to ranger weapons is such a integral part of the profession design, I doubt they will ever remove it or stop doing it with future weapons.

Sword is just as much a “utility weapon” as greatsword is. Heck, you can even do some defensive maneuvers with the sword autoattacks if you know how to use it. You know, the same three skills that are the primary dps of the PvE build. It just goes to show how the ranger is designed.

Mcrocha.3891:

DeceiverX.8361:

I think you have no idea what DPS is.

Everything about the greatsword on the ranger is designed for burst damage. Sustained evades to sustain while on cooldowns, two CC’s, an evade, a leap, and a block. And then you have maul, which allows for the biggest damage on a single hit possible in the game. Yes, when traited and gear for properly, Maul can and will hit higher than a full-glass thief’s backstab. Any declaration about the GS being “designed” for DPS is completely arbitrary defined by non-logical reasoning that the skills themselves deal damage.

The greatsword being DPS on other classes has nothing to do with the greatsword’s DPS on the ranger. Sword is one of the ranger’s DPS weapons, Axe actually does more, but on a sinister condi build. Dagger and sword are for the thief, but not for the ele, which instead gets DPS from the scepter. Fun fact, aside from Hundred Blades, the DPS for the warrior is better on Axe than GS. The GS’s auto on the warrior is actually rather weak compared to the Axe’s, and yet the dagger is better for the Necro’s DPS over the axe. And back to the thief again, the optimal DPS weapons change based on the mob’s health. Dagger can only do more than the sword because heartseeker gets crazy scaling below 25%.

A proper example of an offensive spec designed to be offensive is Axe/Axe warrior. There are no defensive components to this set whatsoever, and none of them can really be argued as being useful for defense in regards to mitigating or preventing damage.

So there’s literally no trend here, and your argument is incoherent.

Apparently burst skills don’t contribute to dps, especially not ones on a 6s cd. So let me get this straight. Maul with the right set-up can outspike backstab. This statement on its own is completely false btw. On the other hand, Maul is on a 6s cd and is the hardest hitting spike skill in the game, but GS is not a dps weapon. Please explain that to me so that I may understand what a coherent argument looks like.

I don’t really care to argue this point anymore, but the fact that the coefficients on ranger auto are lower than every other profession is stupid. The fact that it has lower coefficients than the faster attacking sword is stupid. The evasion could be justified on auto bc we are not a heavy class. However, if the dps of the gs is increased to what it should be, then it may warrant removing the evade on either swoop or auto and it may not. That would depend on balance.

Just stating that to achieve Eval’s numbers, your single-hit burst is on an effective 50 second-long cooldown. Over the course of that period of time, your numbers will be substantially lower than what it can peak on a single hit. Thus, your DPS is going to be lower. You’re not going to maul for 20k+ every 6s forever. Yea, that’d be something menacing (though you can do a decent job with it on non-bosses in regards to cooldowns).

I think the majority of rangers who PvP would rather take the evades on GS over more DPS for PvE’ing, and this game is mostly balanced around PvP. Again, if you want DPS, you play with sword mainhand. It has different utility, and is designed around DPS much more than GS is. The weapon doesn’t burst, but does much better sustained damage.

Numbers could probably be tweaked up slightly, but in no way should they go so far as to feel the need to remove the evades on GS out of compensation. Nope, I’ll take lower damage and higher burst for my ranger with tons of evade uptime. Frankly, I like to be able to sit under AC’s in WvW and be immune to the damage since I’m evading in sync with the ticks.

Who cares, most auto attacks in this game in general hit like a wet noodle….

If you are camping in GS spamming auto attack, you are doing something wrong.
It’s not a sustain dps weapon…. it has 1 hard to land burst skill and rest of its skill is pure utility (swoop out of danger or into it, interrupt/daze, and a block to get away).

Lazze.9870:

Well, you’re basically arguing against something you brought up yourself. I don’t think anyone advocating for damage increase said they wanted to remove the evades.

I didn’t bring it up myself, I was actually referring to one particular post that did indeed advocate the removal of the evade for a damage increase.

It just would be nice for gs to have some pressure is all. This weapon is small modifications away from being a serious threat. Auto boost with quickdraw maul….
Oh well. For the class of “sustained damage”, as the devs like to put it, to have the weakest auto. Smh. Last thought.

Just to confirm, this is from a PVE perspective, right? Because in PVP I imagine the high updtime for evades would contribute meaningfully to the overall performance of the weapon.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Just to confirm, this is from a PVE perspective, right? Because in PVP I imagine the high updtime for evades would contribute meaningfully to the overall performance of the weapon.

Some are arguing from a PvP perspective, others from PvE. Since both have near opposite playstyles and desires for skills, its not going well.

Yes, the evade on AA is gold for all forms of PvP.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Just to confirm, this is from a PVE perspective, right? Because in PVP I imagine the high updtime for evades would contribute meaningfully to the overall performance of the weapon.

Some are arguing from a PvP perspective, others from PvE. Since both have near opposite playstyles and desires for skills, its not going well.

Yes, the evade on AA is gold for all forms of PvP.

It’d be gold in PvE too if the autoattack damage didn’t suck.

The evades built into the weapons are there because the ranger himself doesn’t have much immunities besides a 60 sec cd signet of stone.

Rangers don’t have access to aegis, or constant blinds, or teleports, or much stealth. Its access to stability is also limited to very long cooldowns and one of them has a whopping 1 sec cast time.

The built in evades help to close that survivability gap compared to the other classes, which is still kinda short and why you don’t see much frontline rangers in WvW or spvp either.

Zenith.7301:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Just to confirm, this is from a PVE perspective, right? Because in PVP I imagine the high updtime for evades would contribute meaningfully to the overall performance of the weapon.

Some are arguing from a PvP perspective, others from PvE. Since both have near opposite playstyles and desires for skills, its not going well.

Yes, the evade on AA is gold for all forms of PvP.

It’d be gold in PvE too if the autoattack damage didn’t suck.

The evades built into the weapons are there because the ranger himself doesn’t have much immunities besides a 60 sec cd signet of stone.

Rangers don’t have access to aegis, or constant blinds, or teleports, or much stealth. Its access to stability is also limited to very long cooldowns and one of them has a whopping 1 sec cast time.

The built in evades help to close that survivability gap compared to the other classes, which is still kinda short and why you don’t see much frontline rangers in WvW or spvp either.

You can blind every 4sec with Go for the Eyes and hawk or eagle (also very strong is the weakness on f2), maybe more like 6 with f2 response time.

Protect me can be traited for a 48sec cd stunbreak / immunity which is second lowest timer for a physical damage immunity in the game (distortion is 44sec) and it lasts longer than traited Endure Pain, and we are the only class that can put together a 12sec immunity on demand.

18sec of stability (SotP, SotW) every 60 (48sec traited) is more than all but warriors and guardians, and guardians would have to stay inside their hallowed ground to surpass that.

I think the greatsword isnt to bad at the moment, it just needs some small adjustments.

1. Hilt bash stops your movement for a little time before it activates. Because of this you cant hit someone when your running behind him cause they are out of range by the end of the skill use. This Always felt a little weird, and the easiest to solve this is to add some more range to it. Also, it should Always stun even when not hit from behind or side.

2. Counterattack is way to slow. Speed up this skill.
Also the second part of the skill is way to slow. The throw should be faster.

3. Swoop is ok with me. It does decent damage and offers descent mobillity in combat.

4. Maul is kinda ok. The damage is fine for its cooldown and its probably also one of the most telegraphed skills. However the vulnerability should be better. Maybe 10 stacks, and last a lot longer. Some classes have even longer burning duration then this vulnarability. If you get hit by this skill you SHOULD feel the pain.

5. Autoattack is kinda low on this one, but if the other issues would be dealt with, its fine. However the longbow is slightly slower, but does more damage on small distance. I Always thought that melee should deal more damage then range, especially an auto attack (and NO dont nerf the longbow instead). Also it really is true that the auto attack evade is a little to RNG. It would be better if it would change to 2 seconds of protection or something.

6. The greatsword trait should be buffed a little to deal 10 percent more damage instead of 5 because the low natural stats of this weapon, makes 5 percent almost none existing.

Add in all these changes and the greatsword is a good weapon while still not nearly being overpowered.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Just to confirm, this is from a PVE perspective, right? Because in PVP I imagine the high updtime for evades would contribute meaningfully to the overall performance of the weapon.

Nop. The only game mode I play is WvW, these peeps just assume I pve bc they think I’m bad or weird for having a different opinion I guess. In solo roaming I don’t think I have ever tried to auto someone with gs so I can get my evades, if I’m AA then it is for damage. Imho if I’m going for a defensive set to pair with lb (only running pewpew atm) it’s going to be s/d. If someone is going to stand there and not kite and let you hit them with gs then yeah it might be useful. Evade is decent in zerging as well, but frontlining is meh bc your damage once again is questionable and you’re soaking boons whilst providing little to no utility.

It’s simple really, I would give up evade on auto or decrease the frames in exchange for damage if necessary. Would much rather be able to pressure than get my evades. Considering that in general opponents attempt to cling on Lb rangers in melee, it’d be nice to give them something to hesitate about other than BearJesus.

Raven.9603:

Zenith.7301:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Just to confirm, this is from a PVE perspective, right? Because in PVP I imagine the high updtime for evades would contribute meaningfully to the overall performance of the weapon.

Some are arguing from a PvP perspective, others from PvE. Since both have near opposite playstyles and desires for skills, its not going well.

Yes, the evade on AA is gold for all forms of PvP.

It’d be gold in PvE too if the autoattack damage didn’t suck.

The evades built into the weapons are there because the ranger himself doesn’t have much immunities besides a 60 sec cd signet of stone.

Rangers don’t have access to aegis, or constant blinds, or teleports, or much stealth. Its access to stability is also limited to very long cooldowns and one of them has a whopping 1 sec cast time.

The built in evades help to close that survivability gap compared to the other classes, which is still kinda short and why you don’t see much frontline rangers in WvW or spvp either.

You can blind every 4sec with Go for the Eyes and hawk or eagle (also very strong is the weakness on f2), maybe more like 6 with f2 response time.

Protect me can be traited for a 48sec cd stunbreak / immunity which is second lowest timer for a physical damage immunity in the game (distortion is 44sec) and it lasts longer than traited Endure Pain, and we are the only class that can put together a 12sec immunity on demand.

18sec of stability (SotP, SotW) every 60 (48sec traited) is more than all but warriors and guardians, and guardians would have to stay inside their hallowed ground to surpass that.

Go for The Eyes has the built in delay from all F2’s and it doesn’t protect you against multiple sources of damage, especially ranged ones. It’s relative to your idiotic pet’s positioning.

Protect me disables your pet from attacking and CC’ing while it is procced, making it the only immunity skill that actively nerfs your damage considerably and kills your pet in the process.

Signet of The Wild is not even a reliable source of stability. It has a 1 second cast time, so you actually have to preempt CC application by 1 second, too bad most CC skills are half to a quarter of that cast time, and Signet of the Wild itself has a large tell on top of its large cast time.

Strength of The Pack is good, won’t complain about it.