Guild Wars 2

Im kicking all GS ranger´s who are waiting with AA3 out of my dungeon and PvP Groups.
Bowrangers are better then this…. Even if GS AA will get buffed, it will change nothing, waiting 1/2seconds will increase AA executetime by about 20% and lowering DPS (waiting is time where u do nothing, no dmg, no evade, that´s this evade is so bad).
If Maul is rdy even more.

I don’t think it’s realistic to ask for a blast finisher on the GS, since it already have two: leap on swoop and projectile on 2nd chain of #4 Crippling Throw.

Although i do agree current Maul could as well be added on auto-cast, it’s just one of those abilities which you hammer down whenever is off cooldown… yawn

Norjena.5172:

Im kicking all GS ranger´s who are waiting with AA3 out of my dungeon and PvP Groups.
…
waiting 1/2seconds will increase AA executetime by about 20% and lowering DPS

No, of course, you’re right. How silly of me… Not waiting on your evade and instead blowing it one second before the big telegraphed one-shot-death boss hit is absolutely going to increase your DPS.

Norjena.5172:

(waiting is time where u do nothing, no dmg, no evade, that´s this evade is so bad).

Yes, waiting to use AA3 sure would mean you’d be doing absolutely nothing… couldn’t possibly have 9 other buttons to press to make things happen, right?

There would be little value in extending the reversion timer if you couldn’t use other skills, but since I don’t think using another skill right now inherently reverts autos, then that wouldn’t be the case.

A Chain is a Chain, other skills are interupting a chain, and they should do it.
Only dogderolls don´t interuppt them sometimes. Guardian´s Hammer for example, Smybol of protection is useable after a dogderoll.

If u don´t want to finish the AA, and let "3"stay for a few seconds, there is no reason to don´t dogde “normal”. Cause other skills are not for using on CD, they should use in diffrent situations.
The Chain is that thing that should be used if other skills are not nessecary. And not a on demand dogde. For this are special defensive skills like sword 3 or GS 4 and “V”.

Ariete.6509:

I don’t think it’s realistic to ask for a blast finisher on the GS, since it already have two: leap on swoop and projectile on 2nd chain of #4 Crippling Throw.

Although i do agree current Maul could as well be added on auto-cast, it’s just one of those abilities which you hammer down whenever is off cooldown… yawn

That projectile finisher on GS #4 could as well not be there really. There is hardly any use for it.

I think the major argument against the blast finisher on Maul has always been the access to water field Ranger has, rather the number of finishers on GS itself. With the original 15 s duration of Healing Spring, Blast Finisher on Maul would mean being able to execute 2 blasts in every HS.

However, duration of HS has been since changed to 10 s, what, in addition to limiting its usefulness as a group utility, also means that only 1 Maul can be executed within that time frame.

I still doubt we’re ever going to see the Blast Finisher added to GS. But that doesn’t change the fact that at this point it’s the only finisher that can actually improve the weapon.

Not only GS, swoop (jump), horn (blast) sword (jump) possibel drake (blast).
5*1k healing would be strong.

Norjena.5172:

Not only GS, swoop (jump), horn (blast) sword (jump) possibel drake (blast).
5*1k healing would be strong.

You would still have to blow your weapon swap for that. And the pet swap as well, as that’s pretty much the only way to provided reliable Tail Swipe when it comes to Drakes.

It’s like claiming that GS can’t get blast finishers, because Rangers have access to fire fields. Sure, they have. But trade-offs for combining both of those things together are substantial.

I don´t say it would be op, only strong. Engineers for example have a more blast finisher to heal allies. Not easy to handle but rly strong.
But i don´t want to compare classes this way.

Blast on Maul..sure why not. But i prefer real AoE (5 targets) and bleeding or possibel weakness (not AoE, will get nerfed like weakening shroud or so).

Swoop is a pretty good escape mechanism already imho. The trouble it has isn’t a lack of evade, it’s its inherent weakening/nullyfying through cripple/chilled/immob. If the aim is to make it a better getting out skill, clearing these conditions is what should be looked at, not a channeled evade that will still leave you on the same spot as the big red circle.

from many thing here I agree mostly with tha part that evade on AA3 is vital to gs survivability for example in zerg fights.

the numbers of situations when those evades let me survive in “fail zerg rush” when all those guardian/warriors died are countless

do whatever with gs but keep that evade on AA3. – in zerg fights dps isn’t such important since there are 30+ of us all with 25 stacks of might – its survivability that is much needed – and in current state imo gs is only ranger zerg-viable weapon.

I start to hate WvsW cause of this stupid brainless Zerg Gameplay the only alternativ to our sword will stay useless in ALL other gamepart´s.

And GS is a horribal bad Zerg weapon btw. It´s better the ranger will do smallscale, less player´s, less lags better then a 100 dps GS ranger. I can´t understand this argument.
A Zerg cannot win without killing other players. And the GS can´t even help here.

If they will buff the DPS onpar with sword + the evade. Ok im happy. But i think this won´t happen.

Norjena.5172:

I start to hate WvsW cause of this stupid brainless Zerg Gameplay the only alternativ to our sword will stay useless in ALL other gamepart´s.

And GS is a horribal bad Zerg weapon btw. It´s better the ranger will do smallscale, less player´s, less lags better then a 100 dps GS ranger. I can´t understand this argument.
A Zerg cannot win without killing other players. And the GS can´t even help here.

If they will buff the DPS onpar with sword + the evade. Ok im happy. But i think this won´t happen.

Sigh… Because we should all support a change of our only melee weapon that can be effectively used in zerg fights, knowing that this change will greatly lower that viability, only so we can hope against all hope that this will convince Anet to buff damage of GS AA.

Show me one proof that this is not naive, wishful thinking, and we can talk. Otherwise this debate is pointless.

I think this is a bad idea because the evasion in the auto attack chain makes pressuring with auto attacks a slightly safer affair. I think that’s important because the class isn’t designed to face plant into stuff like warrior or guardian.

More over, if they decide to lengthen the cooldown of swoop, that would equate to removing utility from the GS as a whole. Using the skill as often as possible to move around and close in on/escape foes is more important than some little bit of evasion at the end of it.

I could see having a constant whirl finisher as being a tiny bit useful in PvE where players like to ball up and pile down combo fields but I don’t think it’s worth it.

Searban.5984:

Sigh… Because we should all support a change of our only melee weapon that can be effectively used in zerg fights, knowing that this change will greatly lower that viability, only so we can hope against all hope that this will convince Anet to buff damage of GS AA.

Show me one proof that this is not naive, wishful thinking, and we can talk. Otherwise this debate is pointless.

Probaly the GS was much to high. Nerf ok. But why not down to the sword? Why they nerfed it so much?
Are devs are just dump (i think not), or was their a reason?
If u can tell me a good reason why they nerfed GS dmg/dps so much (even with the old bleedings the GS was weaker). It would be cool.

I think don´t removing the evade was the trade for this strong nerf. What do u think?

As i said obove, primarly i just want the GS to be a equal weapon and a good alternative to our sword. With evade or not, i don´t care (but i would prefer vigor/endurance).

Sorry to go a bit off-topic here, but i’m really wondering about GS vs Sword in damage, i know there’s some math elsewhere, i remember seeing a guy doing dps check on all weapons but the forum’s search function is… impossible.

I struggle to see how the GS goes so far behind the one handed sword. Coefficientes are nearly the same, difference being the S 3rd is higher, while on GS 1st is higher, but the other two are nearly the same damage. Now i know that the rate of fire so-to-speak of the sword far exceeds that of the GS, plus on the long run the might that S 3rd gives to the pet really adds up by your pet doing more damage, but what about Maul? The Sword has no real dps booster, it’s basically AA chain + pet increasing might, while GS has Maul for the added substantial damage + vulnerability stacking which will make your GS + pet (and everyone else) beating harder.

How does GS fall so far behind in DPS?

Ariete.6509:

I struggle to see how the GS goes so far behind the one handed sword. Coefficientes are nearly the same, difference being the S 3rd is higher, while on GS 1st is higher, but the other two are nearly the same damage.

The coefficients are similar, but the GS’s chain takes a lot longer.

• Sword coefficients are .6, .6, .7 with a 1.8 sec cycle time. That works out to an average of 1.06 coef/sec.
• GS coefficients are .55, .55, .65 with a 2.54 sec cycle time. That works out to an average of 0.69 coeff/sec.

Unfortunately the game makes it very difficult to measure after-cast delay (time after using a skill before the next skill’s activation begins). So it’s difficult to determine exactly how long Maul actually takes to use. However, you can calc just using the channel time to get a best case figure.

Maul has a channel time of 0.75 sec and supposedly a 1.7 damage coefficient (it was supposed to have been increased from 1.5 but I haven’t had a chance to test). So you have three possibilities for the overall cycle:

• 3 autoattack cycles + maul = 3* 2.54 + .75 = 8.37 sec total cycle time
• 2 autoattack cycles + 1-1 + 1-2 + maul = 5.08 sec + .76 sec + .76 sec + .75 sec = 7.35 sec total cycle time
• 2 autoattack cycles + 1-1 + interrupt + maul = 6 sec + .75 sec = 6.75 sec total cycle time

The coeff/sec for these three cases are then:

• [ 3 * (.55 + .55 + .65) + 1.7 ] / 8.37 = 6.95 / 8.37 = 0.8303 coeff/sec
• [ 2 * (.55 + .55 + .65) + .55 + .55 + 1.7 ] / 7.35 = 6.3 / 7.35 = 0.8571 coeff/sec
• [ 2 * (.55 + .55 + .65) + .55 + 1.7 ] / 6.75 = 5.75 / 6.75 = 0.8518 coeff/sec

So eliminate the first case (wait until after the 3rd evade to use maul) as non-optimal.

The 5 vulnerability from Maul lasts 8 sec, so (simplifying a bit since both remaining cases have vulnerability lasting to the subsequent Maul, but not the one after), you end up with an average vulnerability of:

• [1.05 * 7.35 + 1.1 * (8 – 7.35) ] / 8 = 1.05046
• [1.05 * 6.75 + 1.1 * (8 – 6.75) ] / 8 = 1.05781

And multiplying by the two remaining cases gives:

• 0.8571 * 1.05046 = 0.9034 coeff/sec
• 0.8518 * 1.05781 = 0.9010 coeff/sec

These are close enough I wouldn’t worry about whether you spam Maul immediately, or wait for the autoattack to finish before hitting Maul. In either case, they are both about 85% the DPS of sword. And that’s the best case for GS due to choosing to ignore Maul’s after-cast delay. And GS’s damage may be even lower if Maul wasn’t buffed and still has a 1.5 coefficient.

It got buffed by about 7% or so, so it´s not a 1,7 coeff as i know. And if Vulnerability is at 20+ stacks, the GS will fall even more behind the sword.

Terrific math essay Solandri! Thank you.

It’s clear and beyond doubt that our sword is the prime contender for when i want raw dps and a permasnare.

I don’t think our GS should fill in the same shoes as the S. That would be reduntant.

What does frightens be is that in all honesty the GS maybe lacking its own niche. Even if you do look at it as a defensive option, many will say, “nah i’ll just add a dagger to my sword for a total amount of 3! ways to evade.”

And here lies the problem, besides a block and the stun/daze i don’t see much upside to losing raw damage against a Sword, on the contrary, when i do pick a S/x regardeless of off-hand choice it always feels like i chose the stronger offensive and defensive choice.

Therefor i completely disagree with increasing the GS damage, the direction is the other way around: GS needs its own setting, purpose, niche. I would give up Maul’s damage in exchange for a 1,5/2 sec block, at least during the bear animation.

Edit: or to go back to OP, an on-demand evade built in Maul.

GS will be useless as a more defensive weapon. There is no need to stack for 10seconds on a 100000evade low dps/utility weapon.

Good weapons with lower DPS but utility are warrior or guardians hammers for example. A lot of CC/Protection, this are tools our GS is missing a lot.

Maul is a Burstskill, useless on such a defensive weapon when the overall dmg is too low. Swoop is a gapcloser, good but nothing special.
It´s to chase target´s, but to make a target running away…u should do dmg. tricky.

4 is a block, need´s a small fix to make it useablewhile moving.
5 is a small cc with long cd. Nothing special too.

The ranger GS is something like warrior GS or guards sword. Utility (reflect/evade) gapcloser and so on. They pure DPS weapon of warriors is the axe (yes pure axe dps is fullbuffed a little bit 2-3% higher then GS/Axe rotation and 7% or more over GS only).

What makes warrios strong is the combination of 2 weaponssets. Both nearly equal dmg, but diffrent utility. Guards are the same, Sword/X + GS or Hammer/Scepter.

Nearly equal DPS on both sets,but diffrent utility.
But rangers don´t have this.

So what should we do with a even more defensive GS? We need 2 weaponsets to outplay others, but GS can´t outplay them, too low dmg/utility this should be fixed, not the defensive potential.

Increase AA damage by 20%, have swoop apply 10 stacks vulnerability, have maul weaken instead, problem solved.