Guild Wars 2

Never understood the lack of any real stealth on a ranger. As typically in reality a seen Army Ranger is often soon a dead Army Ranger. Not asking to be as exclusive as Thieves or anything, but a limited stealth would make sense. Maybe a better camoflage ability that only functions if the player remains still. So I came up with the idea for the Ghillie Suit utility skill! Hear that Anet? I want to become a bush! Possible example…

Ghillie Suit:
Description: Ranger assumes the form of random local foliage while immobile.
Duration: 15-20 seconds (based upon Wilderness Survival traitline?).
Cooldown: 30-90 seconds (again, possibly based upon Wilderness Survival traitline?).
Dis-spell: Upon moving, taking damage, or end skill duration.
Misc: Cannot be activated when already in combat.

The possible applications, and sheer fun and hilarity potential, of this skill I think are fantastic. Especially in places such as WvW.

We used to.
That’s a surprisingly accurate suggestion, too. It actually was called Camouflage and it was also immobility stealth.

I kinda’ want them to revisit the concept. That and Alpha Strike with two instead of three. God, I want Alpha Strike.

I see that, it’s still on the wiki. I did however know about the Ash Legion Spy Kits, as I do have a few of those. No idea why they did away with this… We do still have a passive skill in our traits that I believe also falls somewhere in this catagory, but it’s activated only during certain conditions, like when being knocked back. Essentially making it all but utterly useless.

What also troubles me is that Anet is limiting their definition of stealth strictly to invisibility. When it doesn’t necessarily need to be so. Anything that fools the eyes and mind into believing a person or object is something it is not is classified as stealth. So why not allow us to become a bush, stump, small tree? I’m enamored with the concept of just how fun this could potentially be, while at the same time adding just a smidgen of possible extra survivability our profession so direly needs. Especially in places like WvW.

“I want to be a Tree!”
Love the idea – if we ever get this, though, no canine pet while wielding that skill.

Bloodwort MacFangho.4638:

“I want to be a Tree!”
Love the idea – if we ever get this, though, no canine pet while wielding that skill.

Lol kitten hippies:…

I agree with this. I feel that we should also have some kind of strong bow shot from camouflage, this is something that the ranger lacks that is supposed to be master of bows and guerrilla tactics. We need a hard hitting ability to make people fear a ranger with a now in their hand.

I miss Camoflauge….

Off topic: anyone else upset that we didn’t get a transformation elite skill like the Melandru Form from humans (granted it’d be stronger)

I love this idea. It would make rangers feel more like rangers. If someone even says that this is overpowered then you are insane. Being immobile in a mobile game is asking for death. I wouldn’t even mind seeing something like duration lasts 20 sec (open to duration change) and anytime you move it will reveal you, but as soon as you stop you stealth again ( given that your 20 sec timer isn’t up) by stealth I also mean turn into a bush( or whatever the image is) so you really aren’t stealth! Any player with any sense of awareness can track a moving bush!

o freedom o.9028:

I love this idea. It would make rangers feel more like rangers. If someone even says that this is overpowered then you are insane. Being immobile in a mobile game is asking for death. I wouldn’t even mind seeing something like duration lasts 20 sec (open to duration change) and anytime you move it will reveal you, but as soon as you stop you stealth again ( given that your 20 sec timer isn’t up) by stealth I also mean turn into a bush( or whatever the image is) so you really aren’t stealth! Any player with any sense of awareness can track a moving bush!

Zomg rangers are so OP in sPvP!! They can stealth and its impossible to find them!!

I’m hearing it now….

I’d love this ability I’m not going to lie, nut quick question OP, would our pet also be stealthed?

How about camo as a cardboard box? Have they invented cardboard yet?

I can see it now, playing red light green light with a zerg of menacing bushes lol. But seriously I love this idea.

the ideea sounds pretty neat. should be fun to see if they implement it how it would work in actual ingame enviromet. but nonetheless it should be fun.

“Hmmmm.. That’s weirded… Nobody’s guarding this point.. Wait a second, why is that giant Black Widow spider playing with that bush?”

Obviously if we turn into a bush any pet active when we use the skill would have to turn into something too.

Though I can just see some people who memorize the locations of all bushes and trees around capture points immediately attacking us.

Semil.8279:

Obviously if we turn into a bush any pet active when we use the skill would have to turn into something too.

Though I can just see some people who memorize the locations of all bushes and trees around capture points immediately attacking us.

Easy fix, create 4 other “decoy” bushes within 600yds of the real bush and let us jump between the bushes!

Now you see him, now you don’t!!

With alle the downsides youd described this should be a consumable/environmental weapon if anything. Utility skills that cannot be used while in combat? Srsly?

Add it on to Hide in Plain Sight, when applied a bush appears in our place, along with a handful of other bushes, and we are randomly transported to one of them.

Call it the Whack-a-Ranger build.

KStudios.2850:

Description: Ranger assumes the form of random local foliage while immobile.

Reminds me of Mister Nesbitt…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zekiZYSVdeQ#t=1m0s

Something sneaky we can do right now…

1. Hide behind a building, ridge or obstacle.
2. Send your pet around the side with Guard (this turns him invisible).
3. Order him to attack the player/ballista/treb/whatever on the other side (it can be far away).
4. The pet appears attacking out of nowhere with no ranger in sight. I made a thread about the ethics of techniques like this that never got any traction. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/How-far-can-too-far-go

misterdevious.6482:

KStudios.2850:

Description: Ranger assumes the form of random local foliage while immobile.

Reminds me of Mister Nesbitt…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zekiZYSVdeQ#t=1m0s

Something sneaky we can do right now…

1. Hide behind a building, ridge or obstacle.
2. Send your pet around the side with Guard (this turns him invisible).
3. Order him to attack the player/ballista/treb/whatever on the other side (it can be far away).
4. The pet appears attacking out of nowhere with no ranger in sight. I made a thread about the ethics of techniques like this that never got any traction. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/How-far-can-too-far-go

What’s even more fun to do is to do this with a group of 20 rangers all using 30BM a Jag, QZ and Sick’Em as well, those poor unsuspecting kittens…

It’s a dang pity sPvP maps don’t have much in the way of ambient critters.

There’s already transformation tonics that’ll turn your player character into a mob. It really wouldn’t be too hard to add a stealth-like aggro drop and a nameplate swap. It would be more thematically appropriate to stealth past mobs by turning into a snake and slithering past, and there is much mindscrew potential in lying in wait around a pack of critters and going all rabbit of caerbannog on some poor hapless soul. Being that it’s not an actual stealth, you could probably justify a hearty duration and in-combat usage pretty easy.

You can even have the second press of the utility button be an ‘end transformation’ that produces a particular effect. Like, Attack of opportunity for you and your pet.

This is a neat idea, and I hope ANET experiments with it.

We all saw the popularity of Ash Kits. Turning them into a Ranger skill would not only make Rangers a useful ally for resurrecting, but also lead to all sorts of useful strategies in dungeons. One use I can imagine are the cannons in Dredge fractal.

But then other players would just start targeting critters.

I’d like some ability so that my spider pet and I can hide up in a tree and drop on enemies, like enemy spiders do. I understand it likely will never happen, but it would be fun.

KStudios.2850:

Never understood the lack of any real stealth on a ranger. As typically in reality a seen Army Ranger is often soon a dead Army Ranger. Not asking to be as exclusive as Thieves or anything, but a limited stealth would make sense. Maybe a better camoflage ability that only functions if the player remains still. So I came up with the idea for the Ghillie Suit utility skill! Hear that Anet? I want to become a bush! Possible example…

Ghillie Suit:
Description: Ranger assumes the form of random local foliage while immobile.
Duration: 15-20 seconds (based upon Wilderness Survival traitline?).
Cooldown: 30-90 seconds (again, possibly based upon Wilderness Survival traitline?).
Dis-spell: Upon moving, taking damage, or end skill duration.
Misc: Cannot be activated when already in combat.

The possible applications, and sheer fun and hilarity potential, of this skill I think are fantastic. Especially in places such as WvW.

I think it would probably be problematic, after all random item that fits into the map properly changes very often. Also as someone said, a skill that cant be used in combat isnt that great a skill for the bar.

I do think ranger needs to be able to disapear some times, How about a skill that works like this (lets call it predator for now)
invisible while not moving (cant be seen)
moving makes you look like predator, without a nameplate to enemies (or how stealth looks to other players on your team)
say it lasts 3 seconds, and has a recast of 30 seconds.

Its also possible to have this as a trait like, predator at end of a dodge roll, for 1 second.

Or maybe go predator for 2 seconds when using a survival skill, (make lightning reflexes a little more useful)

I would tie tie this into one of the opening strike traits, that it returns opening strikes. I really think ranger needs some means of returning opening strikes. In the long term fights we often have, and will likely continue to have in high level play, getting opening strikes once per fight is pretty much useless. getting it back on enemy death is also pretty useless for the type of fights we often get into at a high level of play. (where things arent dying often/bosses)

Just an idea to make it more viable in combat. Instead of activating this and becoming an immobile bush on the spot you used it on, make it a shadow step that creates a “hunter’s blind” of sorts in an area. As long as you’re concealed in the blind you remain invisible. Attack for bows’ auto-attacks could perhaps be boosted while attacking from inside the blind, but it breaks cover on the first attack similar to thief’s stealth auto-attack.

Bloodwort MacFangho.4638:

“I want to be a Tree!”
Love the idea – if we ever get this, though, no canine pet while wielding that skill.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystery_Tonic_%28forest%29

Maybe something along the lines of a “Chameleon Aspect” where for 3 seconds you become harder to see every second until after 3 seconds you gain 2 second of invisibility.

Or How about a Utility Skill to gain 3 seconds of immobile invisibility while nearby a wall, terrain object or one of your traps that have not yet been activated.

Perhaps a Disguise mechanic would be more reasonable? Like “While immobile you and your pet will gain regeneration and will appear to be on the same team as your opponents. You will still appear as an ally to your allies. Receiving damage or performing an action will break this effect.” This could also be a Thief of a Mesmer Utility Skill.

If not that, consider something along the lines of “Prey on Senses”: (exchange Appearances with your pet for 5 seconds.)

I’d like an Engineer Trait that allows Turrets to resemble the Engineer for 4 seconds after they are deployed. Hehe while we’re on the subject of subterfuge. :P

I only suggest these as an alternative because I think transforming into an inconspicuous object would have very limited applications in sPvP where a tree would work great in certain parts of the map while only achieving the opposite of its intended design in others. It would also be ineffective to have a “targetable” object. Unless your idea is a Stealth alternative in which case leaving an object where you stand would be very detrimental against skilled or aware players.

Durzlla.6295:

misterdevious.6482:

KStudios.2850:

Description: Ranger assumes the form of random local foliage while immobile.

Reminds me of Mister Nesbitt…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zekiZYSVdeQ#t=1m0s

Something sneaky we can do right now…

1. Hide behind a building, ridge or obstacle.
2. Send your pet around the side with Guard (this turns him invisible).
3. Order him to attack the player/ballista/treb/whatever on the other side (it can be far away).
4. The pet appears attacking out of nowhere with no ranger in sight. I made a thread about the ethics of techniques like this that never got any traction. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/How-far-can-too-far-go

What’s even more fun to do is to do this with a group of 20 rangers all using 30BM a Jag, QZ and Sick’Em as well, those poor unsuspecting kittens…

I’ve been dying to try that for months but not enough people in my guild (or allies) play ranger due to all the stereotypes and misconceptions about the profession. Imagine all the QQing if this became a “thing”.

By the way, as it stands, the jaguar remains stealthed while it attacks and crits on every attack. After the reveal debuff is implemented, will it still work the same way?

This should be the effect for Signet of the Hunt when you use it.

Speed for passive. Slow stealth for active.

Eventho adding camouflage to rangers does sound pretty awesome, stealth IMO should be sth that should decrease in the game.
Say you dont give rangers this, but instead you give it to thieves, along w some toughness.
If everyone is going invisible it ll come to a point where ‘whats the point on removing culling everyone is invisible anyway’.

Not to make a ‘OMG what’ statement, but there trully is a preference for thieves on pvp (spvp/wvw) why exactly you think that is?

horaxx.9728:

Eventho adding camouflage to rangers does sound pretty awesome, stealth IMO should be sth that should decrease in the game.
Say you dont give rangers this, but instead you give it to thieves, along w some toughness.
If everyone is going invisible it ll come to a point where ‘whats the point on removing culling anyway everyone is invisible anyway’.

Not to make a ‘OMG what’ statement, but there trully is a preference for thieves on pvp (spvp/wvw) why exactly you think that is?

I thought invisibility for Rangers would be a bit much too. But after thinking about a few scenarios I feel that a Immobile invisibility that they share with their pet that lasts for 1-2 seconds without a opener on their attacks seems reasonable if the Skills Cool Down is taken into account. If for no other reason this would cause some diversity in Ranger PvP.

This opinion is coming from someone who’s favorite profession is an Engineer. If for no other reason I’d just enjoy fighting some more diverse Ranger meta.

Aridia.3042:

This should be the effect for Signet of the Hunt when you use it.

Speed for passive. Slow stealth for active.

^This. I’m for this.

Aridia.3042:

This should be the effect for Signet of the Hunt when you use it.

Speed for passive. Slow stealth for active.

I agree. But not slow stealth. Immobile stealth. Something like up to 10-20 seconds or until you move.

A bit more damage in a few attacks is not useful enough to lose the speed, but if you can stealth in place for a long time unless you move, there may be no reason to run at all.

Run to a corner, hide on it. Ding. No need to run. And a reason for people to stick around searching in keeps after conquering them is always neat. That is always fun.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Aridia.3042:

This should be the effect for Signet of the Hunt when you use it.

Speed for passive. Slow stealth for active.

I agree. But not slow stealth. Immobile stealth. Something like up to 10-20 seconds or until you move.

A bit more damage in a few attacks is not useful enough to lose the speed, but if you can stealth in place for a long time unless you move, there may be no reason to run at all.

Run to a corner, hide on it. Ding. No need to run. And a reason for people to stick around searching in keeps after conquering them is always neat. That is always fun.

You’re right, that makes more sense both logically and thematically. Camo is only suppose to help you hide if you remain immobile. Plus having a signet that does both ends of the extreme (going full speed and full stop and waiting patiently) works with the theme of the hunt.

Aridia.3042:

MithranArkanere.8957:

Aridia.3042:

This should be the effect for Signet of the Hunt when you use it.

Speed for passive. Slow stealth for active.

I agree. But not slow stealth. Immobile stealth. Something like up to 10-20 seconds or until you move.

A bit more damage in a few attacks is not useful enough to lose the speed, but if you can stealth in place for a long time unless you move, there may be no reason to run at all.

Run to a corner, hide on it. Ding. No need to run. And a reason for people to stick around searching in keeps after conquering them is always neat. That is always fun.

You’re right, that makes more sense both logically and thematically. Camo is only suppose to help you hide if you remain immobile. Plus having a signet that does both ends of the extreme (going full speed and full stop and waiting patiently) works with the theme of the hunt.

signet of the hunt is about having a preparation where you give up your speed to make a powerful attack, aka a prepared shot. I dont think ranger should be giving up 50% damage boost in class that is low on burst.

Also you are neglecting that every signet active primarily effects the pet, and must be traited to effect the ranger (though maybe this should change)

phys.7689:

signet of the hunt is about having a preparation where you give up your speed to make a powerful attack, aka a prepared shot. I dont think ranger should be giving up 50% damage boost in class that is low on burst.

Also you are neglecting that every signet active primarily effects the pet, and must be traited to effect the ranger (though maybe this should change)

Unless they give us the equivalent of a killshot, I see very little value in using that 50% boost since it’s very anemic even on glass cannon specs. Secondly, you’re not really stopping to make a powerful shot, the current active effect is stored until it’s fired and has a 15 min window on it which is silly, both on the efficacy and thematic level.

In a perfect world, we should not trait signets to get the active effect. Traiting it should grant all active effect to your allies nearby.

I am totally behind the idea of immobility stealth becoming Signet of the Hunt’s active.

Vox Hollow.2736:

immobility stealth

inb4 random tree in the middle of the clocktower cap point

…surrounded by traps

Aridia.3042:

phys.7689:

signet of the hunt is about having a preparation where you give up your speed to make a powerful attack, aka a prepared shot. I dont think ranger should be giving up 50% damage boost in class that is low on burst.

Also you are neglecting that every signet active primarily effects the pet, and must be traited to effect the ranger (though maybe this should change)

Unless they give us the equivalent of a killshot, I see very little value in using that 50% boost since it’s very anemic even on glass cannon specs. Secondly, you’re not really stopping to make a powerful shot, the current active effect is stored until it’s fired and has a 15 min window on it which is silly, both on the efficacy and thematic level.

In a perfect world, we should not trait signets to get the active effect. Traiting it should grant all active effect to your allies nearby.

50% damage boost is far from anemic (especially with open strike and high crit dmg) not to mention traited its 50% for you and your pet) the idea is preparation, if you prepare your next attack you can have a huge hit, it lasts a long time but its still only 1 hit. imo its a pretty great signet (keep in mind 50% damage was so good they removed it from sigils in beta)

anyhow giving signet effects to the party would be insanely op, 6 seconds invulnerability to the party? everyones next attack does 50% more every 30 seconds? 25% more damage and 12 second stability?
and people think mesmer elite is OP, your talking about a god grandmaster trait.

im not saying they shouldnt add a utility for stealth or camo, i think it could be interesting (especially if you could get back opening strikes during combat) but signet of the hunt is actually one of the better signets, even if you dont want to use it, its worthwhile when used properly and works well with pets. signet of hunt+ sic em is pretty big dmg. Just cause you dont like it, dont go ruining a perfectly fine skill.

phys.7689:

Aridia.3042:

phys.7689:

signet of the hunt is about having a preparation where you give up your speed to make a powerful attack, aka a prepared shot. I dont think ranger should be giving up 50% damage boost in class that is low on burst.

Also you are neglecting that every signet active primarily effects the pet, and must be traited to effect the ranger (though maybe this should change)

Unless they give us the equivalent of a killshot, I see very little value in using that 50% boost since it’s very anemic even on glass cannon specs. Secondly, you’re not really stopping to make a powerful shot, the current active effect is stored until it’s fired and has a 15 min window on it which is silly, both on the efficacy and thematic level.

In a perfect world, we should not trait signets to get the active effect. Traiting it should grant all active effect to your allies nearby.

50% damage boost is far from anemic (especially with open strike and high crit dmg) not to mention traited its 50% for you and your pet) the idea is preparation, if you prepare your next attack you can have a huge hit, it lasts a long time but its still only 1 hit. imo its a pretty great signet (keep in mind 50% damage was so good they removed it from sigils in beta)

anyhow giving signet effects to the party would be insanely op, 6 seconds invulnerability to the party? everyones next attack does 50% more every 30 seconds? 25% more damage and 12 second stability?
and people think mesmer elite is OP, your talking about a god grandmaster trait.

im not saying they shouldnt add a utility for stealth or camo, i think it could be interesting (especially if you could get back opening strikes during combat) but signet of the hunt is actually one of the better signets, even if you dont want to use it, its worthwhile when used properly and works well with pets. signet of hunt+ sic em is pretty big dmg. Just cause you dont like it, dont go ruining a perfectly fine skill.

I actually run pure GC and tried it with 25 stacks of bloodlust and might stacks. That signet’s active effect is garbage. Under no circumstance is it better than taking piercing arrow and eagle eye if you care about damage. So in no shape of form is that skill perfectly fine. But if you think that’s a good active signet by all means use it.

In my books, all the signets need to be reworked and/or have their cooldowns drastically reduced.

Before the game launched I used to think Camouflage was a stupid skill. I didn’t know about interactable objects at the time. After seeing how valuable Ash Legion Spy Kit’s were, especially during the dredge fractal (or levelling a thief and grabbing commune skill points) and seeing how terrible ranger utilities are currently, I’d love to have camouflage back. It would stuff suffer from the same problems rangers always suffer from with stealth – no point being stealthed when a pet can be seen and is standing on top of you acting as a big red target to hit you with AoE attacks. A two man team where only one man can stealth makes that stealth far less valuable (a problem I have when I try to use stealth kits on my ranger as opposed to other classes).

@phys

It’s not so much lackluster as incredibly incredibly limited.

The biggest problem with that Attack of Opportunity is that it’s multiplying your next hit in a very literal sense. Drake breath, Rapid Fire? Just the first hit. Bird F2? Only half.

It’s a neat concept.
But aside from Maul and Swoop, a large swath of Ranger and the Pet’s damaging skills are delivered through multiple hits. It seriously needs to multiply all the attacks within the next skill that connects, instead of just the next hit that connects.

If they allow us to turn into a tree , naturally , the pet would stand right next to us giving us away. Can we at least get a pet animation for K9 pet’s and have them lift their leg and pee on the tree ? It would provide some amusement before the enemy owns us.

achensherd.2735:

Aridia.3042:

This should be the effect for Signet of the Hunt when you use it.

Speed for passive. Slow stealth for active.

^This. I’m for this.

I really like this idea as well. Having it added to Signet of the Hunt would be perfect. Both extremes in one skill.

Wolf.5816:

“Hmmmm.. That’s weirded… Nobody’s guarding this point.. Wait a second, why is that giant Black Widow spider playing with that bush?”

Yes, one would have to either stow their pet beforehand, or the skill would have to account for the pet as well in some manner. I tend to have mine stowed when going from one place to another anyway. As they have a way of getting right in the camera at times.

Rump Buffalo.2594:

inb4 random tree in the middle of the clocktower cap point

…surrounded by traps

Ay, can’t say I wouldn’t do it lol. At very least it would certainly make zerg raids in WvW more pleasant to the eye. “That golem-train is on our Hill’s gate agai… Is that a shrubbery?”

Robert Hrouda.1327:

that sounds pretty neat.

There’s a joke somewhere in there about Hunger Games and camouflaging as a rock, but its too early in the morning to try that hard…

Can’t say I’ve seen Hunger Games. I do remember that scene from one of the Rambo films though, leering eyes from a wall of mud, lol. Creeeeepeh! XD

Did you happen to see that post above about Signet of the Hunt?

What is the point of Ghillie Suit? To MOVE without being noticed.
These all-case breaking stealths are extremely annoying and unuseful.
What is it for? To pass a risen by?

RoyalPredator.9163:

What is the point of Ghillie Suit? To MOVE without being noticed.
These all-case breaking stealths are extremely annoying and unuseful.
What is it for? To pass a risen by?

Ranger can be perfect scout in wvw with the camouflage. Iam all up for it. I don’t care if we are under powered but imagine all the fun we can have with this skill.

5 rangers standing still and invisible inside SM. Suddenly SM flips. Cant sweep for something that’s perma invisible.

KensaiZen.3740:

5 rangers standing still and invisible inside SM. Suddenly SM flips. Cant sweep for something that’s perma invisible.

Doesn’t have to be perma-invis. Even so, they could just craft a mechanic that dispells invis on would-be ghosts in keeps once the keep flips.

And the Ranger would do what, exactly, when they pop out of this utility? Exploit the element of surprise and kill their target— Pffffcchht! I’m sorry, I couldn’t finish that with a straight face!

…adding stealth to the Ranger doesn’t fix their problem.

Lol, I thought its about rangers disguising as foliages etc, not being invisible/stealthy? And if you are worried of rangers abusing this ability to capture estates, this can easily be fixed by making them not able to do that while in disguise.