Guild Wars 2

I know this may be somewhat beating a dead horse, but I feel that with the changes to Maul and the new traits the Ranger has gained recently, it might be a good idea to review what we know about which one is the best melee option. Both weapons have a number of benefits and downsides to them:

Sword:
- Higher damage per hit than Greatsword.
- Versatile – leaves the offhand free.
- Good engage/disengage/reengage in Hornet’s Sting (Hornet range 400, Monarch range 600).
- Easily repositions for the damage boost on Hunter’s Tactics.
- Makes excellent use of the new trait, Predator’s Onslaught, with the perma-cripple.
- Grants might to your pet in its basic attack combo.
x Basic attack combo is a root.
x In-built evades are not instant (Hornet’s sting has around a 0.25 channel time)
x Poor cleaving.
x Lack of combo finishers (Hornet’s Sting’s leap is two-part)

Greatsword:
- Free movement while attacking.
- 3/4 second evade as part of auto attack chain.
- Block.
- Better cleave than sword, as well as 20 more range.
- Maul is a low cooldown, high damage skill that applies 5 vulnerability stacks now.
- Longer range and faster engage/disengage than sword (Swoop range 1100)
x Two handed, so less utility.
x Less damage per hit.
x One of its burst skills relies on blocking an attack (Counterattack)
x Struggles to maintain permanent cripple for Predator’s Onslaught.

I’ve deliberately left out the exact damage numbers for the Sword and Greatsword’s auto attack chains, as it’s difficult to find a reliable number for them. From the numbers I’ve found, the weapons also share a similar attack speed – 1.8s for the sword’s 3-hit combo, compared to 1.75s for the Greatsword’s combo.

So what’s changed? Both weapons have had a new little trick added to their kitten nal recently – for sword, it’s Predator’s Onslaught, which provides a 10% damage increase to you and 5% to your pet to any foe who is chilled, immobilised, or crippled. As the sword’s auto attack chain applies a short cripple, it’s pretty much a permanent damage increase for the weapon.

A smaller but still notable change made to the Greatsword is that Maul now applies 5 stacks of vulnerability for 8 seconds, on a 6 second cooldown. This essentially provides a 5% damage increase to the Ranger, pet, and everyone else attacking the target. It also allows the Ranger to apply maximum vulnerability stacks on their own, but as that requires another weapon, it’s irrelevant here.

Finally, both weapons benefit from a different trait spread. The typical 6/5/0/3/0 build suits the Sword well, providing access to Spotter, Vigorous Spirits, Predator’s Onslaught, and Hunter’s Tactics. The large investment in Marksmanship and Precision also provide an excellent overall damage bonus.
The Greatsword however, works better with a 4/5/0/5/0 spread – You still get Spotter and Steady focus from Marksmanship, and Skirmishing remains unchanged. By taking an extra 2 points in Nature Magic over Marksmanship however, Two Handed Training becomes available, giving the Greatsword a 5% damage boost and a 50% chance to grant fury on hit. You also get access to Bountiful Hunter, which provides another 5% damage increase while you have a boon – the synergy should be obvious here.

So factoring in traits, damage, utility, and survivability, which one would you guys consider the better choice?

It always depends on the situation, I suppose.

In dungeon runs you should still be able to maintain +-24 might uptime and permanent fury uptime, since Ele/Guard is the meta. Which means that if you do not get these buffs – in solo game-play, GreatSword is definitely better in everything. Faster movement (swoop) – faster results. Sword would never compete with the distance advantage, which makes Greatsword superior. The damage difference is not that high.

In Dungeons and Party content – you are mostly full on buffs at all times and probably won’t need to stress about movement, since AoE swiftness will do the job. Here – sword is far superior for it’s better damage output.

From a PvP/WvW perspective I prefer GS because burst damage>sustained damage.
I also wanted to add a couple positives you missed in the op.

Ranged cripple (that also does a nice bit of damage)
Stun/daze/interrupt
Double leap finisher
On demand evade with swoop

Main hand sword has it’s place, I’m sure it’s fantastic in PvE where the mobs have huge telegraphs and you can wait for the evade to activate, it’s also really good for a condi build where you can load them up with condi’s and spam evades, but for power I love my GS.

Well, when comparing greatsword and sword you always have to consider the offhand. If it’s warhorn, the fury/swiftness uptime is always great along with a blast finisher. The upcoming buffs to warhorn will certainly be appreciated to help keep those boons up. Or you could take the dagger and gain an extra evade.

As for the mobility of the two, I honestly put them at a tossup. While greatsword and swoop may be easier to do while simply traveling, I think hornet sting has much more to offer. It’s superior in combat to reposition yourself, and can be utilized just as well as swoop out of combat if you get the hang of it. Plus it’s cooldown is 4 seconds shorter, so you’ll get ~3 out of every two swoops.

I agree with OP’s pros and cons though. I would say greatsword is easier to slap on and play but sword offers more for those who can use it. If you can handle being rooted by the sword AA, I would take it every time. Not only in dungeons/PvE but also in PvP. Sword/WH is a much better offhand to longbow in a power build. Using Lightning Reflexes > Hornet Sting > Monarch’s Leap is the best get of of jail free card you can use.

2015 and people still on this matter?

Sword should be the default weapon for ranger. Best weapon, 2 evades on it, and the “freedom” of having an off-hand (which should be axe 90% of the time).

GS is by far inferior (17% dps difference), and should be used only in situations where you wanna max melee, which are rare encounters anyways.

Hate to say it, but yeah the difference in damage is not insignificant.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

2015 and people still on this matter?

Sword should be the default weapon for ranger. Best weapon, 2 evades on it, and the “freedom” of having an off-hand (which should be axe 90% of the time).

GS is by far inferior (17% dps difference), and should be used only in situations where you wanna max melee, which are rare encounters anyways.

Sword/axe may surpass GS for power builds once they allow you to use skills without rooting you in place, especially on whirling defense. Until they do that the better weapon comes down to user preference.

However I do need to argue that the dps difference doesn’t make GS inferior because GS has better burst damage which is way more important when fighting another player. There is a reason people started complaining about longbow after rapid fire received a buff. The overall damage the longbow did was pretty much the same but now the a ranger could burst down the professions with tanky builds.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

2015 and people still on this matter?

Sword should be the default weapon for ranger. Best weapon, 2 evades on it, and the “freedom” of having an off-hand (which should be axe 90% of the time).

GS is by far inferior (17% dps difference), and should be used only in situations where you wanna max melee, which are rare encounters anyways.

Sword/axe may surpass GS for power builds once they allow you to use skills without rooting you in place, especially on whirling defense. Until they do that the better weapon comes down to user preference.

However I do need to argue that the dps difference doesn’t make GS inferior because GS has better burst damage which is way more important when fighting another player. There is a reason people started complaining about longbow after rapid fire received a buff. The overall damage the longbow did was pretty much the same but now the a ranger could burst down the professions with tanky builds.

While I was thinking PvE when I was commenting, even in PvP, I would chose S/A over GS.

GS may have a bigger burst on paper, but applying it is something else entirely… The whole weapon is so much dependent on 1 skill (maul), and once that misses, it becomes a useless stick untill you either swap, or get maul back again. Experienced players will not get damaged by maul 80% of the time.

For competitive, sword… the movement is just sooo much ridiculously higher than GS.

There are a ton of other small reasons I always have one equipped, like the built in poison, evades, and 3 cripples, but 6 out of 8 of the skills on a s/d are movement skills. That’s crazy!

For PvP I love my GS LB combo. when someone is running away at low health and all of my bow skills are on recharge, i just swoop and maul and i have myself a kill.

PvE max damage is sword/axe /warhorn (/torch) – you stay melee and fight with aa. You also can start with GS for your burst skills, then go to sword/axe and finish off again with GS. GS has a terrible aa like any GS in the game. The auto attack chain should be disabled so you can move away if you have to (preventing root). Stupid yea but a jump in an aa is just silly imo.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

2015 and people still on this matter?

Sword should be the default weapon for ranger. Best weapon, 2 evades on it, and the “freedom” of having an off-hand (which should be axe 90% of the time).

GS is by far inferior (17% dps difference), and should be used only in situations where you wanna max melee, which are rare encounters anyways.

Sword/axe may surpass GS for power builds once they allow you to use skills without rooting you in place, especially on whirling defense. Until they do that the better weapon comes down to user preference.

However I do need to argue that the dps difference doesn’t make GS inferior because GS has better burst damage which is way more important when fighting another player. There is a reason people started complaining about longbow after rapid fire received a buff. The overall damage the longbow did was pretty much the same but now the a ranger could burst down the professions with tanky builds.

While I was thinking PvE when I was commenting, even in PvP, I would chose S/A over GS.

GS may have a bigger burst on paper, but applying it is something else entirely… The whole weapon is so much dependent on 1 skill (maul), and once that misses, it becomes a useless stick untill you either swap, or get maul back again. Experienced players will not get damaged by maul 80% of the time.

It’s really easy to cancel the skill but still get the animation to make players waste their dodges. I almost never miss a maul. Path of scars however is much harder to land.

Gs for cleave and spike melee. Sword for everything else

"changes to Maul "

Excuse me, but what changes you are talking?

SilverWF.4789:

“changes to Maul "

Excuse me, but what changes you are talking?

It’s been a couple months but they increased the cleave range and number of targets

loss of character control with australian ping makes sword not even an option.

Get better internet or play a class that can be more efficient with such ping ?

Prysin.8542:

Get better internet or play a class that can be more efficient with such ping ?

Or use a greatsword because this is GW2 and the difference doesn’t actually matter.

Greatsword:
- Basic attack evade can be used twice for 2 seconds of evasion. (Where did you get the 3/4 second?)
- Leap counts as a double leap, where the first leap is the running portion and the second is the jumping portion of the skill.
- Block is very useful against ranged enemies, because you can block them for the duration of Block and then use crippling throw just before it ends

Sword:
- While it roots you in place, you can easily fly through an enemy zerg, to the backlines, by using the basic attacks.
- Requires skill, but the basic attack’s third attack can be used for escaping if timing it right… very difficult to do and I haven’t seen anyone do it.

Side note:
It is wrong to even consider sword’s basic attack damage because it’s very unlikely that you’re going to or will be able to just root yourself on the enemy with it, rather than to use the evade skills.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

2015 and people still on this matter?

Sword should be the default weapon for ranger. Best weapon, 2 evades on it, and the “freedom” of having an off-hand (which should be axe 90% of the time).

GS is by far inferior (17% dps difference), and should be used only in situations where you wanna max melee, which are rare encounters anyways.

Sword/axe may surpass GS for power builds once they allow you to use skills without rooting you in place, especially on whirling defense. Until they do that the better weapon comes down to user preference.

However I do need to argue that the dps difference doesn’t make GS inferior because GS has better burst damage which is way more important when fighting another player. There is a reason people started complaining about longbow after rapid fire received a buff. The overall damage the longbow did was pretty much the same but now the a ranger could burst down the professions with tanky builds.

While I was thinking PvE when I was commenting, even in PvP, I would chose S/A over GS.

GS may have a bigger burst on paper, but applying it is something else entirely… The whole weapon is so much dependent on 1 skill (maul), and once that misses, it becomes a useless stick untill you either swap, or get maul back again. Experienced players will not get damaged by maul 80% of the time.

It’s really easy to cancel the skill but still get the animation to make players waste their dodges. I almost never miss a maul. Path of scars however is much harder to land.

I +1 that… Use Maul, stow weapons, bear slams down, enemy dodges → use maul.
Cancelling it will induce a 3 seconds CD though.

If you’re tanky, you can even play around with it… Use it without using it in a team fight… People shall waste their dodge!

Prysin.8542:

Get better internet or play a class that can be more efficient with such ping ?

Get better educated:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latency_

latency != throughput.

As I clearly said, sword is not an option when latency is a factor. My character is uncontrollable while executing basic attacks (a pretty sad indictment of the level of care Anet have for their game and its players IMO).

solrik.6028:

Sword:
- While it roots you in place, you can easily fly through an enemy zerg, to the backlines, by using the basic attacks.

I do this, works really well with double melee. You get to the backlines without using any of your cooldowns other than RaO, so you are basically guaranteed to get out.

solrik.6028:

- Requires skill, but the basic attack’s third attack can be used for escaping if timing it right… very difficult to do and I haven’t seen anyone do it.

I do this! It’s habit more than skill. One of the single greatest things a ranger can learn how to do is drop a target, we have so many abilities that depend on it. Also the poster FrauFrau (don’t think she plays or at least posts anymore) has a lot of YT videos of her using this in action.

solrik.6028:

Side note:
It is wrong to even consider sword’s basic attack damage because it’s very unlikely that you’re going to or will be able to just root yourself on the enemy with it, rather than to use the evade skills.

On paper this is true, but in reality I find it isn’t. This is the single biggest reason I run a celestial amulet in PvP over rabid. A few scenarios:

• I run double canines with drakehound, entangle, and lately muddy terrain, so it’s not uncommon for me to be attacking the back of an enemy. Bonfire + sword autoattack really hurts there.

• Panicking enemies often try to kite you if near death, and sword autoattack not only stops the kiting but also does the most damage.

• Once the enemy PvP team realizes you’re a tanky condi ranger and not an easy kill, they’ll often go after softer targets, which can again open up your autoattack.

• One final note, not related to autoattack, but to celestial power damage, is that all the sword attacks as well as the dagger attacks hit quite hard, relatively speaking. It starts to add up, and I view them as an additional “condition”.

On paper s/x is superior PvP choice. But bouncing around in a troll like manner is just not my style.

I use gs simply cause it feels right for me.