Guild Wars 2

borya.2964:

kiwituatara.6053:

Guard may be useful and a lot of apothecary rangers run it, but its still a very very badly designed skill.

Most rangers use Guard only because of its access to Nature’s Voice on a short cooldown. You will hardly see any rangers running Guard without the trait. Honestly, there are no viable builds out there that runs Guard without taking Nature’s Voice.

Do you have a viable build using untraited traps, untraited spirits, untraited survival skills ? A lot of utitlities need traits to work, no matter the class. I don’t see your point.

Untraited survival skills are still used very often.

For traps and spirits, you’ve just proved my point. We both agree these two skill types do not work unless traited. That is why Anet’s changing the way spirits and traps work. Our shout requires the same attention too.

Razor.9872:

Actually, I see lots of builds using untraited survival skills, and I think I did see one power hybrid build that is popular now in WvW roaming use only partially traited traps (spirits are another matter, untraited spirits feel useless). But the point is if Survival skills and signets can do it, there isn’t any reason our shouts can’t either.

Just a note, traited HaO will have a 16sec cooldown.

kiwituatara.6053:

Untraited survival skills are still used very often.

For traps and spirits, you’ve just proved my point. We both agree these two skill types do not work unless traited. That is why Anet’s changing the way spirits and traps work. Our shout requires the same attention too.

A lot of build use LR (it never quit my bar). But right now you can easily half trait it with CD reduction, no matter the build. Those who use one or two survivals like Entangle do it. Same with traps, you can easily half trait those skills to make it work for non full trap build (trageting ones). So no, it’s rarely untraited skills. And you won’t be able to do it after HOT cuz it will be all in one traits.

I like guard, i don’t want a change that would break the way you can actually use it. You can still propose your changes for a skill you never use, i am ok with that, but please, i am not going to use my heal skill for barely half the effects i like with guard (high swiftness uptime fo me and my mates), this is kitten ridiculous (and i’ll use TU).

Face it, guard is a terrible skill and serves limited purpose except for activating Nature’s Voice. If you play it with traps, it can be decent, but it needs a lot of work.

Face it ?

No offense, but i play with Guard + Nature’s Voices with both my power and condi builds for month with a lot of success in solo and small scale roaming, the only mod i play in this game since launch. There is simply no argument i can accept from non Guard users to change it, period.

What’s the purpose of untraited traps, survivals and spirits ? Don’t tell me that there are effective builds like above, it’s not true.

The point is that even with the trait, the skill is bad. If you trait traps or spirits or survivals, they at least serve a purpose and the skill itself becomes better whereas “Guard” only serves to activate Nature’s Voice.

I use it, sure, but with traps, you lay it on top of the traps with a canine so you get the KD on the traps, but I wouldn’t care if I didn’t have it at all, its pretty crap skill-wise. I’ll just be using HaO for the exact same thing now and take 3 traps instead.

It has a PiTA cast time and you are always sending your pet somewhere else other than where the foe is (assuming they are moving around and evading) so it doesn’t really serve a purpose. It would be OK as is if the leash range was increased again, but… Meh.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

The point is that even with the trait, the skill is bad. If you trait traps or spirits or survivals, they at least serve a purpose and the skill itself becomes better whereas “Guard” only serves to activate Nature’s Voice.

Honestly, i am fed up with this argument, i explained already why i like Guard, the Nature’s Voice effect is simply half the thing (while it’s an integral part of the fonction). And it perfectly works with a LB. Obviously you nerver saw you opponent being pulled from nowhere buy a siamoth, while both your pet and you are in stealth. Now that Nature’s Voice is an adept tier, you want to destroy Guard ? Again, you can be serious.

I don’t want to destroy guard, far from it.

I want them to improve it so that it has some actual function.

I believe you, but don’t forget you’re in a thread where the op don’t give a kitten of the synergy between Guard and Natures’ voice (will be an adpet, again, much better) and also want to improve the skill, no matter the CD, to make it useful in a kitten dungeon.

Every proposal with a higher CD and a stealth removal is just dumb to me.

So you are saying, it has no actual function right now?
Make pet invis, grant protection, send to place…
Let’s go on: While the pet is invis, it will hold back the special ability, which means, you can command dogs to knockdown, whenever you want.
The ability to place an invis pet at a target location and have it pop up behind the enemy to set up a coordinated burst attack.
Seems like a great package on a small cooldown to me.

Look at wvw, 90 % of LB power rangers doesn’t care of the pets, it’s just an extra F2. They are tied to a dead class mechanic, the pet is dead half of the time. How do you want to explain why Guard is a good skill ? It’s sad.

If it were me, I would remove the ground targeting of “Guard” and make it do something like;

“Your pet shadow steps to the next foe that attacks you and gains an Attack of Opportunity. Your pet gains fury, protection and stealth for 10s.”

On the same CD with no cast time.

borya.2964:

I believe you, but don’t forget you’re in a thread where the op don’t give a kitten of the synergy between Guard and Natures’ voice (will be an adpet, again, much better) and also want to improve the skill, no matter the CD, to make it useful in a kitten dungeon.

Every proposal with a higher CD and a stealth removal is just dumb to me.

I give a pretty big kitten, actually, I’d say a kitten close to a lion. Further application of taunt would allow your regeneration and swiftness to take a more meaningful effect. You say you like Guard for more than just its effect with Nature’s Voice, yet one of the main reasons you keep defending it is on the basis of party swiftness…

My proposed change would be useful in far more than just dungeons; the skill could allow for camp wipes in wvw in much the same way a Guardian’s GS 5 accomplishes, and in PvP it would pull your opponent away from you on points so you could mess up their orientation and, again, give more time for your regeneration and swiftness to mean something.

I’m sorry, but I still can’t see for the life of me what you like about the current Guard so much. Everything besides the stealth aspect would still be easily accomplished.

naphack.9346:

So you are saying, it has no actual function right now?
Make pet invis, grant protection, send to place…
Let’s go on: While the pet is invis, it will hold back the special ability, which means, you can command dogs to knockdown, whenever you want.
The ability to place an invis pet at a target location and have it pop up behind the enemy to set up a coordinated burst attack.
Seems like a great package on a small cooldown to me.

1) you can hold back your canine’s knockdown by keeping it on standby. If you say you don’t want to keep your canine on standby because you want it to still attack, then it doesn’t matter if you keep your pet invisible or not (as the CD on the knockdown is far greater than any stealth duration can account for).

2)Can you not pop a coordinated burst attack with taunt? Arguably you could do so further, as the knockdown still exists and would likely take effect just before the taunt is gone.

Yeah, the cooldown might change, but 25 seconds (base) is still excellent.

borya.2964:

Look at wvw, 90 % of LB power rangers doesn’t care of the pets, it’s just an extra F2. They are tied to a dead class mechanic, the pet is dead half of the time. How do you want to explain why Guard is a good skill ? It’s sad.

Aren’t you the one trying to explain why Guard (currently) is a good skill? Bringing in Noobish ranger players into the argument does little to strengthen your position, just fyi.

borya.2964:

kiwituatara.6053:

Guard may be useful and a lot of apothecary rangers run it, but its still a very very badly designed skill.

Most rangers use Guard only because of its access to Nature’s Voice on a short cooldown. You will hardly see any rangers running Guard without the trait. Honestly, there are no viable builds out there that runs Guard without taking Nature’s Voice.

Do you have a viable build using untraited traps, untraited spirits, untraited survival skills ? A lot of utitlities need traits to work, no matter the class. I don’t see your point.

Those skills have specific purposes that they are brought for on their own. Regen builds would still bring Guard to spam NV even if guard did absolutely nothing.

Talking about the actual skill Guard, and not the additional benefits you gain from it through traits – it sucks.

I really like the shadowstep idea that Heimskarl talks about. I’d build upon that idea with the ability to swap place with your pet, as a secondary function of Guard. Now that could start to make this skill really interesting – and fun.

I honestly don’t think we need any other way to give our pets Fury. We have the Horn, now several other traits, and fortifying bond. Our pets should be fairly solid in that area.

Sebrent.3625:

I honestly don’t think we need any other way to give our pets Fury. We have the Horn, now several other traits, and fortifying bond. Our pets should be fairly solid in that area.

Shadowstep → AOE knockdown!

…or Shadowstep → AOE special ability depending on pet family!
;)

Substance E.4852:

borya.2964:

kiwituatara.6053:

Guard may be useful and a lot of apothecary rangers run it, but its still a very very badly designed skill.

Most rangers use Guard only because of its access to Nature’s Voice on a short cooldown. You will hardly see any rangers running Guard without the trait. Honestly, there are no viable builds out there that runs Guard without taking Nature’s Voice.

Do you have a viable build using untraited traps, untraited spirits, untraited survival skills ? A lot of utitlities need traits to work, no matter the class. I don’t see your point.

Those skills have specific purposes that they are brought for on their own. Regen builds would still bring Guard to spam NV even if guard did absolutely nothing.

Send your pet where you want without a target is absolutley nothing, stealth your pet is absolutley nothing, giving him high protection up time is absolutely nothing. I get it. Now that you can take a third line like BM, Guard will even be better , send your
pet somewhere and taunt your traget from stealth etc. Guard + NV is great, “+”, you know, like in addition to. But keep thinking i like it for NV + absolutely nothing.

Anyway, i am done to talk about absolutely nothing.

borya.2964:

send your pet somewhere and taunt your traget from stealth

That could be an interesting mechanic, true, because it will give us the ability to pull enemies to a specific location.

borya.2964:

Substance E.4852:

borya.2964:

kiwituatara.6053:

Guard may be useful and a lot of apothecary rangers run it, but its still a very very badly designed skill.

Most rangers use Guard only because of its access to Nature’s Voice on a short cooldown. You will hardly see any rangers running Guard without the trait. Honestly, there are no viable builds out there that runs Guard without taking Nature’s Voice.

Do you have a viable build using untraited traps, untraited spirits, untraited survival skills ? A lot of utitlities need traits to work, no matter the class. I don’t see your point.

Those skills have specific purposes that they are brought for on their own. Regen builds would still bring Guard to spam NV even if guard did absolutely nothing.

Send your pet where you want without a target is absolutley nothing, stealth your pet is absolutley nothing, giving him high protection up time is absolutely nothing. I get it. Now that you can take a third line like BM, Guard will even be better , send your
pet somewhere and taunt your traget from stealth etc. Guard + NV is great, “+”, you know, like in addition to. But keep thinking i like it for NV + absolutely nothing.

Anyway, i am done to talk about absolutely nothing.

I’d say the high protection uptime is the best thing about the skill currently. I hope that would stay. If the CD were to be increased, then I’d like to see the protection application duration increased as well.