Guild Wars 2

These shouts make very little sense and don’t function intuitively.

Sick’em: This shout gets over-ridden by activated pet abilities, which doesn’t make sense. It used to also get overridden by signet of the hunt, not sure if that’s been fixed. I don’t know if this applies, but sick’em should just be a buff. It should not go away on target switch, though maybe the damage bonus should only apply to one target.

Guard: this is on such a short cooldown that it’s really used for the perma prot on the pet and now, the regen/swiftness on the ranger. The area bit has essentially no functionality (other than the most specific of instances). Why not just remove the ground targeting and make it a pet buff? Or, alternatively, include some sort of bonus in a slightly larger area. Also, I don’t think the pet should drop target. Guard is one of the most popular shouts that makes use of the new regen/swiftness trait. It seems kind of like a ridiculous mechanic to spam that shout and interrupt the pet’s attack, then just retarget.

agree with sick’ em BUT not GUARD !!!!

guard with range pets = turrets ! ensuring my pet won’t DIE in boss fight where i place them at a safe spot and ALLOW my pet to shoot at them

EvilZombie.6801:

agree with sick’ em BUT not GUARD !!!!

guard with range pets = turrets ! ensuring my pet won’t DIE in boss fight where i place them at a safe spot and ALLOW my pet to shoot at them

To be fair, your ranged pet should be able to survive a boss fight without slotting a utility skill to do so. All pets should survive boss fights as part of the basic function of the class.

Shiren.9532:

EvilZombie.6801:

agree with sick’ em BUT not GUARD !!!!

guard with range pets = turrets ! ensuring my pet won’t DIE in boss fight where i place them at a safe spot and ALLOW my pet to shoot at them

To be fair, your ranged pet should be able to survive a boss fight without slotting a utility skill to do so. All pets should survive boss fights as part of the basic function of the class.

Very true. No other class has their main mechanic, and 30-40% of their DPS, linked to an AI that tends to die in most boss battles. That is why ranger is so disliked in dungeons.

I think guard can be pretty useful to help keep your pet alive in dungeons, I ran it recently when there was no guardian in the group to give aegis and I felt it was really helpful in keeping my cat alive.

right now you and i cant do anything so just keep it this way leave “guard” alone for now until other stuff are buff

Dev’s I hope you read this. I’ve been preaching what the OP stated for so long.

Guard is now used just to spam natures voice and for pet boons.
Sickem may just need a general buff.

If I want to place a range pet somewhere just go where I want the pet to be, hit F3 then when he comes I hit F1. Now my ranged pet is attacking from range.

The “place your pet here” functionality has fallen out of use and the cast time is long.
I preach it guard needs additional utility to see use outside of Nature Voice spamming.
I still suggest reveal stealth in the area as a unique thing rangers could bring to WvW.

Lastly, I feel held back and cannot run a ranger shout build because I feel the shouts don’t have a lot of direction, they are kind of all over the place.

Defensive? Offensive? Utility? How do you want shouts to play out. One of each is bad because I feel I can only take 1 shout, 2 if I’m lucky, in a shout build.

I think the cast time on Guard is ridiculous. “Guuuuaaaaaarrrrd!”. Increase the cool down by 3 seconds or something like that if you’re worried about it being OP (which it’s not because pets are useless in dungeons).

Sick ‘Em is fine except for the fact that you can’t use an F2 ability, and it goes away when the target is dead or switched. Remove those 2 unnecessary things and it’s fine

Guard should shadowstep your pet to the targeted area. And they really need to fix the effects of these shouts and pet abilities so they stack and dont overwrite eachother.

Guard is fine the way it is. Adding more time to the recharge leaves your pet unprotcted longer. Right now your pet is without protection for 5 seconds and really only 1 with protection on dodge if you need it.

While the are some bosses that will still kill your pet in one shot even with protection they usually have a very noticable tell. That give you time to react. It amazes me how some ranger can keep thier pets up 90% of the time with now points in Bm and other ranger keep thier pets dead 90% of the time.

I dont think pets need to shadow step to the location they get a movment boost. But I do believe these skill need to stack.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Guard is fine the way it is. Adding more time to the recharge leaves your pet unprotcted longer. Right now your pet is without protection for 5 seconds and really only 1 with protection on dodge if you need it.

While the are some bosses that will still kill your pet in one shot even with protection they usually have a very noticable tell. That give you time to react. It amazes me how some ranger can keep thier pets up 90% of the time with now points in Bm and other ranger keep thier pets dead 90% of the time.

I dont think pets need to shadow step to the location they get a movment boost. But I do believe these skill need to stack.

There’s still no point to the ground targeting function of guard, it’s pretty useless. Someone else mentioned positioning, but that can be done with f3. It also should not interrupt attacks since it seems to be meant to be spammed rather than situationally used. It’s a huge protection buff for the pet and its CD is 12 seconds traited.

I think guard is pretty useful, although i think a couple things added would really make it neat.

1-as someone said. have the pet shadowstep to the guard area (it might be a lil OP but given the cast time that about how long the pet would take to run to most places anyways , especially with the shorter leash.

2-when traited , guard should share protection with the ranger (not the group, thats too powerful) even if it was on a 10 second internal cool down it would still be amazing to have a reliable way to apply protection.

Considering the recent Shortbow changes and the reason for them, the dev’s answer to ‘Guard is just being used to spam Natures Voice, give it an actual use please’ will be to increase the cooldown so that you can’t spam it.

Agree 100% with Sic’Em. Skill is completely horrible as it is right now. Too easily overwritten by random things, forces you to forgo control of your pet completely for 10 seconds if you don’t want to lose the buff… just terrible. It doesn’t help that pet damage was nerfed either, since it means the 40% boost just isn’t as substancial as it used to be just by virtue of pet damage not being as high.

Disagree with Guard. I love Guard exactly how it is. Very long-lasting Protection on a short cooldown alone makes it a useful skill, and stealth has various uses like positioning your pets before battle or allowing an F2 uninterrupted. And of course having your pet attack on its own has uses in situations where you actually need to defend a point (like during defense events). The only change I’d like to see implemented with regards to Guard is to not have F2 attacks cancel it.

How do you not like Sick’Em O.o? I -would- like to see my pet gain some boons from it, but then again, I use 30 in NM so I want that 5% damage boost xD.

Maybe ontop of what Sick’Em currently does the pet could gain fury and 10might? This would make it so if you decide to essentially waste the shout by having your pet do something else (like all the shouts) there’s still some compensation.

Guard attacks as a stealth for all pets. People complain you it’s to easy to avoid, cant avoid what you cant see. The potential for guard is emense its only litmited by your imagination.

Guard was better in the begining. Who’s to say that with all the neft to pets such as damage and leashing that it wont be reinstated to it’s former glory so that ranger wont lose damge when attacking inside or evenout side a keep.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Guard attacks as a stealth for all pets. People complain you it’s to easy to avoid, cant avoid what you cant see. The potential for guard is emense its only litmited by your imagination.

Guard was better in the begining. Who’s to say that with all the neft to pets such as damage and leashing that it wont be reinstated to it’s former glory so that ranger wont lose damge when attacking inside or evenout side a keep.

Lol that’s how I used drakes before they got buffed!

‘total rework’

….
….
….
*tweaking

Electro.4173:

Agree 100% with Sic’Em. Skill is completely horrible as it is right now. Too easily overwritten by random things, forces you to forgo control of your pet completely for 10 seconds if you don’t want to lose the buff… just terrible. It doesn’t help that pet damage was nerfed either, since it means the 40% boost just isn’t as substancial as it used to be just by virtue of pet damage not being as high.

Disagree with Guard. I love Guard exactly how it is. Very long-lasting Protection on a short cooldown alone makes it a useful skill, and stealth has various uses like positioning your pets before battle or allowing an F2 uninterrupted. And of course having your pet attack on its own has uses in situations where you actually need to defend a point (like during defense events). The only change I’d like to see implemented with regards to Guard is to not have F2 attacks cancel it.

The positioning does not apply to what you say about guard. What if guard just buffed the pet with stealth and prot? Same use, much more streamlined. Your pet takes your target if you want it to, or takes any target you give it. You would not need to do interrupt the pet when using it. This shout is still clearly designed to be spammed and right now it just makes it so you have to retarget which feels to me like a broken mechanic. Either the shout should not be spammed, or the non-buff part of it should be more than extremely situational.

Why not make it like the Guardian Protector strike while keeping all the current advantages? The pet goes in stealth mode into the selected area, block the next attack if allies or himself are within this area and retaliates with a powerful sneak attack wich would depend on the family of the pet you are using.

In my opinion, Guard is fine, even if a bit clunky when used solely to stack regeneration and swiftness. But protection + stealth is great as it is. I like the idea of shadowstepping though… One may always dream. ;p

As for Sick’em, the key problem has already been mentioned countless times, it’s the effect being overridden by various actions. Beyond that, I think I would prefer for it to apply regular boons, rather than this special mechanic it has at the moment. Especially since shouts seem to be at least partially tied to NM trait line now.

To be honest, I think Protect Me needs more attention than Guard, as it is a bit lackluster now. It basically does what the signet of stone does better when traited.

However, what I would like to see the most is something else – turning shouts into skills that affect both the pet and the ranger. Shouts weren’t really popular so far, because their effects are relatively narrow in terms of who they affect, especially if you compare it with shouts other classes have access to. Nature’s Voice was a step in the right direction, but I don’t think it was enough.

But if Guard and Sick’em could give boons to the ranger himself, that would be something. Such solution could be introduced either as a default effect of the shouts, or as a trait somewhere in either BM or NM line.

Jonathan Sharp has claimed in the last SotG that Anet considers it a problem that Rangers are being forced into precision / condi style of gameplay. Why not buff that one type of skills that can actually support other builds?

EvilZombie.6801:

agree with sick’ em BUT not GUARD !!!!

guard with range pets = turrets ! ensuring my pet won’t DIE in boss fight where i place them at a safe spot and ALLOW my pet to shoot at them

To add to this…. it’s also a good way to make them stay put when running through dungeons traps and what have you. … much better at keeping the pet “safe from it’s lousy AI” than “Stow Pet”.

Is Stow pet even intended for combat?? I’m beginning to think it was more intended to be an RP’er type emote thing for people sitting around in coffee clatches in L.A. or something. In which case it could have just been a /slash command instead :p

ilr.9675:

EvilZombie.6801:

agree with sick’ em BUT not GUARD !!!!

guard with range pets = turrets ! ensuring my pet won’t DIE in boss fight where i place them at a safe spot and ALLOW my pet to shoot at them

To add to this…. it’s also a good way to make them stay put when running through dungeons traps and what have you. … much better at keeping the pet “safe from it’s lousy AI” than “Stow Pet”.

Is Stow pet even intended for combat?? I’m beginning to think it was more intended to be an RP’er type emote thing for people sitting around in coffee clatches in L.A. or something. In which case it could have just been a /slash command instead :p

That’s a good point. I forgot about that, but I think stow pet should provide this functionality rather than a utility. I don’t think I should need a utility to make a pet stay.

Paprikaspice.8462:

The positioning does not apply to what you say about guard. What if guard just buffed the pet with stealth and prot? Same use, much more streamlined. Your pet takes your target if you want it to, or takes any target you give it. You would not need to do interrupt the pet when using it. This shout is still clearly designed to be spammed and right now it just makes it so you have to retarget which feels to me like a broken mechanic. Either the shout should not be spammed, or the non-buff part of it should be more than extremely situational.

I agree, I think it needs to be streamlined, The pet positioning aspect is overrated, people do like to protection though…..

This would actually find its way onto my skill bar if it was insta cast and protection on my pet.

The skill is being used to spam natures voice which is a design flaw. NV should be activated through a variety of shouts with a shout build if you want to use it.

Paprikaspice.8462:

That’s a good point. I forgot about that, but I think stow pet should provide this functionality rather than a utility. I don’t think I should need a utility to make a pet stay.

Well if we’re going down that road… then F3 needs to be the New GO—>TO function first an foremost on the first press, while pushing it Twice could just be its old “heel” function…

Go To is very very important, especially in dungeons or anytime you want to melee a 1-hitting Boss yourself for real DPS, without your pet getting too close to it. (IE: use a decent debuffing or DPS’ing ranged pet instead)

rpfohr.7048:

The skill is being used to spam natures voice which is a design flaw. NV should be activated through a variety of shouts with a shout build if you want to use it.

Why is this a problem FOR YOU?

Do you have difficulty doing it properly while still having your pet keep up and remain responsive? It’s only a real problem when you need to hold aggro off a weaker NPC (like Hodgins) and the pets constant recloaking resets their aggros…

It’s not a problem if guard was designed to spam natures voice. Which I don’t think it was.

are you so concerned about pet positioning in order to keep it alive you would use a utility. You shouldn’t have to. An f1 toggle between guard and attack would do better. Pet is invulnerable in guard mode. Effectively this allows your pet to dodge but a cool down would be needed to prevent abuse. 2 seconds maybe??

rpfohr.7048:

It’s not a problem if guard was designed to spam natures voice. Which I don’t think it was.

are you so concerned about pet positioning in order to keep it alive you would use a utility. You shouldn’t have to. An f1 toggle between guard and attack would do better. Pet is invulnerable in guard mode. Effectively this allows your pet to dodge but a cool down would be needed to prevent abuse. 2 seconds maybe??

They’ll never do that b/c it would still be exploitable for certain Dungeon encounters and WvW griefing. Not to mention that “dodge” has never actually meant “invulnerable” for ANY of us… all that dodge does is remove your character’s contact from the ground which nullifies ground based damage. It does NOT allow you to avoid all projectile collisions or stop certain (especially multipacket) Cleaves & AOE’s.

And for those of us who like to Melee a boss… your method just needlessly complicates things for us in ways that GoTo commands & “flagging” have always been superior and were actually a standard-bearer in being a “Tank” in GW1 with a pure Hero party. (as long your stupid monks weren’t always running up to heal you too soon and draw off aggro by accident… which is why you usually always gave them Toggles instead of heals).

I think you should have both. The f- toggle which and f3 go to.

It would still be 4 f buttons but with more control.

Currently guard isn’t on an f I would still argue that in a guard non attack state pets should at least take less damage

I’d like to restate I think the stealth and port are great. Keep these. It’s the positioning and cast time that’s killing me. Coming from a wvw and pvp perspective I find little use for it. You seem to come from a dungeon perspective more

Can… can I add Search and Rescue to the list? Ever since the “I will not res the defeated” nerf, I’ve never used it. With the new 2000 leash range, even if the search and rescue nerf was undone, I still wouldn’t find myself using it :/ (one of my favorite places for the skill was for the dredge fractal boss at the end; pick up an alley without messing up the rotation of the boss).

Me and my team were having trouble with the rotating laser room in the new dungeon, and people kept going down. One round I switched to a bear, and put S&R on my bar. Called for it when a companion went down. My sluggish bear went over to him…….. and the bear just couldn’t res at the same rate as a person. Not even close. It was absolutely useless and just wasted a slot on my bar.

Sigh!

^Yeah good point. S&R also looks “balanced for sPvP”. …and desperately needs a PVE split, particularly one that can rez NPCs! … b/c those are usually the guys we really need to get back up on their feet during smaller scale D.E.’s & storyline stuff.

Paprikaspice.8462:

These shouts make very little sense and don’t function intuitively.

Sick’em: This shout gets over-ridden by activated pet abilities, which doesn’t make sense. It used to also get overridden by signet of the hunt, not sure if that’s been fixed. I don’t know if this applies, but sick’em should just be a buff. It should not go away on target switch, though maybe the damage bonus should only apply to one target.

Totally agree with Sick’ em. This is a total design-flaw. Sometimes, simpler is better.

ilr.9675:

Paprikaspice.8462:

That’s a good point. I forgot about that, but I think stow pet should provide this functionality rather than a utility. I don’t think I should need a utility to make a pet stay.

Well if we’re going down that road… then F3 needs to be the New GO—>TO function first an foremost on the first press, while pushing it Twice could just be its old “heel” function…

Go To is very very important, especially in dungeons or anytime you want to melee a 1-hitting Boss yourself for real DPS, without your pet getting too close to it. (IE: use a decent debuffing or DPS’ing ranged pet instead)

rpfohr.7048:

The skill is being used to spam natures voice which is a design flaw. NV should be activated through a variety of shouts with a shout build if you want to use it.

Why is this a problem FOR YOU?

Do you have difficulty doing it properly while still having your pet keep up and remain responsive? It’s only a real problem when you need to hold aggro off a weaker NPC (like Hodgins) and the pets constant recloaking resets their aggros…

My main issue with the retarget mechanic is in pvp. I guess in most pve encounters it’s not a big deal to have to retarget, though it still feels broken. Also, even before NV the cooldown and high uptime on prot for guard seemed to make it spam friendly. It’s even more so now.