Guild Wars 2

Empathic Bond (EB) and Sirvival of the Fittest (SotF) are rangers’ only strong condi removal. Why are they both in the same line? This effectively makes the survival line mandatory in every spec.

The other thing is it means Poison Master will never be used in PVP/WVW.

The only other options for condi removal are: brown bear (never going to happen, i’d sooner quit GW2 than run a god-kitten brown bear), the signet (of renewal) is not reliable, and healing spring isn’t up often enough.

The 2 condi traits need to be separated or a third condi-removing trait option needs to be added.

There were a couple of interesting ways people have suggested to make this less of an issue. One was to have the pets be able to transfer conditions onto enemies that are struck.

Another was to merge EB into IB in the Nature Magic trait line and alter it’s function so the Pet’s F2 would cleanse 3 conditions and heal on the 20 second ICD. Would be an AOE condition cleanse at that point but I digress.

Is this in regards to the upcoming changes? Because currently, EB is in survival, whereas SotF is in nature magic.

It’s been brought up a bunch, but I’m happy to call more attention to this bad design decision.

Yeah, it really needs to be improved and moved. Bump.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Is this in regards to the upcoming changes? Because currently, EB is in survival, whereas SotF is in nature magic.

A clue to this vexing question is in the title.

With SotF and EB right now, you can avg almost 50 condi cleanse per min.
67 condi cleanse per minute if you went all out with brown pet, cleansing sigils, etc.

I don’t think it’ll hurt that bad if people are forced to choose between EB and SotF.
EB => trap/signet/spirit builds
SotF => survival builds
EB + SotF => overkill condi cleanse [x] that will no longer exist

And hey we might see new condi removing traits in the druid line?

kiwituatara.6053:

With SotF and EB right now, you can avg almost 50 condi cleanse per min.
67 condi cleanse per minute if you went all out with brown pet, cleansing sigils, etc.

I don’t think it’ll hurt that bad if people are forced to choose between EB and SotF.
EB => trap/signet/spirit builds
SotF => survival builds
EB + SotF => overkill condi cleanse [x] that will no longer exist

And hey we might see new condi removing traits in the druid line?

Hi, the main problem is not choosing between EB and SotF, its being forced to build around WS trait line. We want to have a choice to build around different lines like we used to(EB or SOTF).

Like you said, EB + SotF => overkill condi cleanse, you’ll almost never get the full value out of EB with so much condi removal(especially now that TU is also condi remove) So if someone is taking both, he just investing in over condi remove and sacrifice lots of other good stuff.

its like this because druids are going to be very strong in condi manipulation

LughLongArm.5460:

kiwituatara.6053:

With SotF and EB right now, you can avg almost 50 condi cleanse per min.
67 condi cleanse per minute if you went all out with brown pet, cleansing sigils, etc.

I don’t think it’ll hurt that bad if people are forced to choose between EB and SotF.
EB => trap/signet/spirit builds
SotF => survival builds
EB + SotF => overkill condi cleanse [x] that will no longer exist

And hey we might see new condi removing traits in the druid line?

Hi, the main problem is not choosing between EB and SotF, its being forced to build around WS trait line. We want to have a choice to build around different lines like we used to(EB or SOTF).

Like you said, EB + SotF => overkill condi cleanse, you’ll almost never get the full value out of EB with so much condi removal(especially now that TU is also condi remove) So if someone is taking both, he just investing in over condi remove and sacrifice lots of other good stuff.

Ah okay, I guess that makes more sense if you’re arguing from that perspective.

How about we move EB to the BM line.
Merge Beastly Warden (taunt on pet F2) and Wilting Strike (weakness on pet F2) as a GM
Move Honed Axes (+150 ferocity -20%cd axe) to Master trait.

I really don’t think Honed Axes should be a GM trait.

http://i.imgur.com/VFtz017.jpg (beastmaster line)

@kiwituatara.6053
Moving EB to either NM or BM are good solutions if you ask me. Even better if they merge it with one of the existing skills like IB , many rangers think that also EB doesnt deserve to be a GM trait by its own.

EB is not worthy of GM status as it stands right now.

Bump. Totally agree with OP. This is a huge issue. This will make GM In NM mandatory in every build and removes Poison Master as an option. EB should be moved to new beastmastery line or changed to master trait.

OGDeadHead.8326:

EB is not worthy of GM status as it stands right now.

Why is it not worthy of GM status? Almost every viable ranger build was running EB before SoTF was introduced. Rangers used to complain that they’re locked into the Survival trait line for condi clears.

I see it more as an alternative to SoTF for those that don’t want to run Survival skills.

kiwituatara.6053:

OGDeadHead.8326:

EB is not worthy of GM status as it stands right now.

Why is it not worthy of GM status? Almost every viable ranger build was running EB before SoTF was introduced. Rangers used to complain that they’re locked into the Survival trait line for condi clears.

I see it more as an alternative to SoTF for those that don’t want to run Survival skills.

Yes it’s an alternative to SotF. Still not GM worthy as it is now. It used to be, when it cleared all our conditions without giving them to the pet. That was op though. But now, we still suffer from the conditions when we’re supposedly free from them, and that’s one of the reasons this trait is not worth a GM spot.
Just look around at other professions and compare.

Another issue, aside from killing your pet, is that you can’t really predict when it will activate. How long do you really have to clear immobilize or those 10 stacks of bleeding that are eating you? Can you wait for it to activate in the next 3s, or will it be 4s? I could be using anecdotal evidence, but I think this would force one into higher vitality/healing amulets to account for the condition damage you will inevitably take. So, I see it as a nice compliment to active condition removal. Not a good supplement.

Why not make this trait a ranger version of Brawler’s Recovery? “Remove 5 conditions when you swap pets, your pet has -33% condition duration”. That way, it already has an ICD and can fit nicely into Wilting Strike’s spot in BM. Merge Wilting Strike with Beastly Warden and reduce the penalty for pet death. Then make another GM for WS.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Why not make this trait a ranger version of Brawler’s Recovery? “Remove 5 conditions when you swap pets, your pet has -33% condition duration”. That way, it already has an ICD and can fit nicely into Wilting Strike’s spot in BM. Merge Wilting Strike with Beastly Warden and reduce the penalty for pet death. Then make another GM for WS.

No way. 5 conditions? Thats way too OP. I’m happy with just 2.

Empathic Bond is 3/10s = 3.33s per condition. Pet swap will be 15s (if specced into BM, which you would need to do if the trait was there) if the pet is alive and 4t5s if it is dead.
Alive pet on swap = 15s = 4.5 conditions, lets round up to 5 per swap, because…
Dead Pet on Swap = 4t5s = 13 conditions, but you still get 5 only.

If it was only 2 conditions per 15s it would be bad and if your pet is dead, it is only 2 conditions per 4t5s, so, useless. Even then, they could reduce the dead pet penalty to 30s and it would still be half the current potency of Empathic Bond. Not only that, but it would be easier for condi players to counter it, because they just need to focus your pet to either kill it or bait the swap, then they can condi bomb you for 15 or 4t5s. Maybe not even worth taking at 5 conditions per swap.

(Edit: Fourty Five seconds as a number comes up as kitten, so I added the ‘t’ in the middle. 4t5s)

“You lose one condition every 3s when your pet swap is on CD. Your pet gains 1s of Resistance whenever you remove a condition” That would be pretty cool. Kind of more powerful if your pet is dead, at least not another penalty.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Empathic Bond is 3/10s = 3.33s per condition. Pet swap will be 15s (if specced into BM, which you would need to do if the trait was there) if the pet is alive and 4t5s if it is dead.
Alive pet on swap = 15s = 4.5 conditions, lets round up to 5 per swap, because…
Dead Pet on Swap = 4t5s = 13 conditions, but you still get 5 only.

If it was only 2 conditions per 15s it would be bad and if your pet is dead, it is only 2 conditions per 4t5s, so, useless. Even then, they could reduce the dead pet penalty to 30s and it would still be half the current potency of Empathic Bond. Not only that, but it would be easier for condi players to counter it, because they just need to focus your pet to either kill it or bait the swap, then they can condi bomb you for 15 or 4t5s. Maybe not even worth taking at 5 conditions per swap.

5 condi clear per swap is OP. EB is powerful at 3 per 10 s and it’s not a clear; it’s a transfer. Clears shouldn’t be more powerful than that and be on demand. I agree 2 is too little, but 3 per pet swap seems about right.

Swapping a pet clears every condition off the pet so combined with EB, you are already getting a full clear for the pet and 5 conditions from you. I fail to see how that is OP when we already have that same functionality if you take EB and swap pets on CD. The only difference is that the pet will not be affected by the conditions, which is perfectly fine if you ask me, they need more passive buffs due to being AI.

If your pet dies, you will only have 5 condi clears per kitten , that is a perfect counterplay, kill the pet, bait the swap and then unload.

Warrior has Brawler’s Recovery which is one condition per 5s on weapon swap, to only get 3 conditions per pet swap would be vastly UP compared to this trait, since our pet can be killed and increase the CD by triple.

Condition swap on pet swap for EB? Sign me up. Makes sense what you’re saying there in comparison to Brawler’s Recovery. Anet’s been pushing traits for more active play anyways, plus, it can add more to pet swapping like Beastmaster’s Bond will.

Yup, then Loud Whistle, Poison Master, Beastmasters Bond, Zephyr’s Speed and Empathic Bond all synergise nicely. Assuming EB was moved to Beastmastery.

4 × 15s Might, 3s Quickness, 15s Swiftness, 15s Fury, Poison on next pet attack, Remove 5 conditions. Pretty nice if you take MM, WS and BM lines.

It would be a more active play, gives a counter and also teach people to swap pets more strategically. Well, my thoughts anyway.

kiwituatara.6053:

OGDeadHead.8326:

EB is not worthy of GM status as it stands right now.

Why is it not worthy of GM status? Almost every viable ranger build was running EB before SoTF was introduced. Rangers used to complain that they’re locked into the Survival trait line for condi clears.

Because almost all GMs have been moved up a notch in power. EB was really only good because for a long time it was the only condition-clearing option.

Personally, I think it’s weak and don’t like its passive, unreliable nature at all, notwithstanding being in the same line as SotF. I’d love to see something more useful, like remove 1 condi / 3.5sec, or better, something more skilful, like remove 2 condis on pet swap or using your pet’s F2.

I see it more as an alternative to SoTF for those that don’t want to run Survival skills.

which is fine in theory, except that it makes that trait line compulsory.

As someone suggested above, I think this is being done because I think Druids will have a fair bit of cleansing to their names. If this is true, then having THREE trees that give cleansing would be kind of crazy so I imagine A-NET would want to be cautious about that.

scerevisiae.1972:

Empathic Bond (EB) and Sirvival of the Fittest (SotF) are rangers’ only strong condi removal.

This is outrageous! I demand we get a new trait, Damsel of the Fittest!

FrouFrou.4958:

scerevisiae.1972:

Empathic Bond (EB) and Sirvival of the Fittest (SotF) are rangers’ only strong condi removal.

This is outrageous! I demand we get a new trait, Damsel of the Fittest!

How about merge them to create Survival of the Bond!!!111

scerevisiae.1972:

FrouFrou.4958:

scerevisiae.1972:

Empathic Bond (EB) and Sirvival of the Fittest (SotF) are rangers’ only strong condi removal.

This is outrageous! I demand we get a new trait, Damsel of the Fittest!

How about merge them to create Survival of the Bond!!!111

…James Bond…

Bond of the fittest! Using a utility transfers 2 conditions to your pet!

How about Death of the Unfit? Using a utility transfers all conditions to your pet and it dies.

so… universal agreement everywhere that EB and SotF ought to be split and/or added to… but will there be changes?

Loxsus.3841:

As someone suggested above, I think this is being done because I think Druids will have a fair bit of cleansing to their names. If this is true, then having THREE trees that give cleansing would be kind of crazy so I imagine A-NET would want to be cautious about that.

No, why? spreading condi clearing around means people actually have more choice in their builds. Who wants to be pidgeonholed into choosing the same spec line in every spec just to provide a baseline level of condi clearing?