Guild Wars 2

UPDATE 1 ::::: Updated Healing Spring to Reflect different Boon durations.

In this Post, I have calculated every healing amount for every heal the Ranger has access to, at both 0 and 2000 healing power, 0 and 90% boon duration. I did not include pet heals however.

(_note : pretty much every healing skill heals for a little more or less than the actual calculation due to rounding or internal game errors.

Heal as One

• 1.25 second activation with a 20 second cooldown (21.25 Total)
• 6520 Healing at 0 Healing power.
• 8520 healing at 2000 Healing power.

• Heals for 307 Hp per second (6520 / 21.25) at 0 Healing Power.
• Heals for 401 HP per second at 2000 Healing Power.

Troll Unguent

• 1 Second activation time with a 25 second cooldown (26 total)
• Heals 850 hp per second for 10 seconds for a total of 8500.
• Heals 1090 hp per second for 10 seconds for a total of 10900.

• Heals for 327 Hp per second at 0 Healing power.
• Heals for 419 Hp per second at 2000 Healing power.

Healing Spring

• Has 5 Sections. Each Section Calculates for Boon Duration Individually. There is 0%, 43%, 63%. and 90% (max.)
• 1/2 Second activation with a 30 second cooldown (30.5 Total)
• Regen at 0 healing power is 130 Hp per second. 380 Per second at 2000 healing power.

(0% Boon Duration)

• Has 18 Seconds total of Regeneration.
• Heals for 4920 Hp initially, with Total Regeneration of 2340. Total = 7260
• Heals for 6920 Hp initially, with Total Regeneration of 6840. Total = 13760

(30% Boon Duration)

• Has 23.4 Seconds total of Regeneration.
• Heals for 4920 Hp initially, with Total Regeneration of 3042. Total = 7962
• Heals for 6920 Hp initially, with Total Regeneration of 8892. Total = 15812

(43% Boon Duration)

• Has 25.74 Seconds total of Regeneration.
• Heals for 4920 Hp initially, with Total Regeneration of 3346. Total = 8266
• Heals for 6920 Hp initially, with Total Regeneration of 9781. Total = 16701

(63% Boon Duration)

• Has 29.34 Seconds total of Regeneration.
• Heals for 4920 Hp initially, with Total Regeneration of 3814. Total = 8734
• Heals for 6920 Hp initially, with Total Regeneration of 11149. Total = 18069

(90% Boon Duration)

• 34.2 seconds at max. boon duration (90%)
• Heals for 4920 Hp initially, with Total Regeneration of 4446. Total = 9366
• Heals for 6920 Hp initially, with Total Regeneration of 12996. Total = 19916

• Heals for 238 Hp per second at 0 Healing Power and 0% Boon duration.
• Heals for 261 Hp per second at 0 Healing Power and 30% Boon duration.
• Heals for 271 Hp per second at 0 Healing Power and 43% Boon duration.
• Heals for 286 Hp per second at 0 Healing Power and 63% Boon duration.
• Heals for 307 Hp per second at 0 Healing Power and 90% Boon duration.
• Heals for 451 Hp per second at 2000 Healing Power and 0% Boon duration.
• Heals for 518 Hp per second at 2000 Healing Power and 30% Boon duration.
• Heals for 547 Hp per second at 2000 Healing Power and 43% Boon duration.
• Heals for 592 Hp per second at 2000 Healing Power and 63% Boon duration.
• Heals for 653 Hp per second at 2000 Healing Power and 90% Boon duration.

(continued on next post)

Water Spirit

• Water Spirit has a 1.5 second activation, 20 second recharge time.
• Best case Scenario, it lasts for 60 seconds, and you can use Aqua Surge every 25 Seconds(has 1 second activation) . (time interval for calculating averages is 26 seconds)
• Worst case Scenario, it still last 60 seconds, and you can use Aqua Surge every 45 Seconds(has 1 second activation). (time interval for calculating averages is 46 seconds)
• Absolute worst case, it dies immediately, and you recieve ZERO Healing.

Water Spirit (best case scenario)

• 805 Healing every 10 seconds. 2093 across 26 seconds at 0 Healing Power.
• 3865 self heal, and 1930 Spirit Heal, for a Total of 5795
• 7888 Healing Total at 0 Healing Power (Best Case)

• 985 Healing every 10 seconds. 2561 across 26 seconds at 2000 Healing Power.
• 4585 self heal, and 1930 Spirit Heal, for a Total of 6515
• 9076 Healing Total at 2000 Healing Power (Best Case)

• Heals for 303 Hp per second at 0 Healing Power.
• Heals for 349 Hp per second at 2000 Healing Power.

Water Spirit (Worst case scenario)

• Healing on Attack is still calculated for 26 seconds, because, in a worst case scenario, your spirit dies just before you can fire off the second heal, making you wait an additional 20 seconds before you can reuse it.
• 805 Healing every 10 seconds. 2093 across 26 seconds at 0 Healing Power.
• 3865 self heal, and 1930 Spirit Heal, for a Total of 5795
• 7888 Healing Total at 0 Healing Power (Worst Case)

• 985 Healing every 10 seconds. 2561 across 26 seconds at 2000 Healing Power.
• 4585 self heal, and 1930 Spirit Heal, for a Total of 6515
• 9076 Healing Total at 2000 Healing Power (Worst)

• Heals for 171 Hp per second at 0 Healing Power.
• Heals for 197 Hp per second at 2000 Healing Power.

Prayer to Dwayna

• 1 Second activation, 30 Second Cooldown. (31 seconds total)
• Does not heal your pet.
• 6520 Heal at 0 healing power.
• 8220 Heal at 2000 healing power.

• Heals for 210 Hp per second at 0 Healing Power.
• Heals for 265 Hp per second at 2000 Healing Power.

Healing Seed

• 1 Second Activation, 45 Second Cooldown (46 Seconds total)
• Does Not Heal Pet!!!
• I have not gotten the regen to ever last longer than 9 seconds, so that is the number I will be using today. If you have gotten it to last longer, then send me a message, and I will edit this post to reflect that.
• Regen at 0 healing power is 130 Hp per second. 380 Per second at 2000 healing power.
• 6520 Initial Heal. 1170 Health Regen. Total HP = 7690 at 0 Healing Power.
• 8520 Initial Heal. 3420 Health Regen. Total HP = 11940 at 0 Healing Power.

• Heals for 167 Hp per second at 0 Healing Power.
• Heals for 260 Hp per second at 2000 Healing Power.

AntiToxin Spray

• 1 Second activation. 30 Second Cooldown. (31 Total)
• Can have up to 4 bonus heals based on number of conditions removed (Toxic Pollen, Poison, Torment, Confusion)
• 3920 Healing at 0 Healing Power. Up to 1924 Bonus heal at 0 Healing Power.
• Total = 5844.
• 5120 Healing at 2000 Healing Power. 3524 Bonus Heal at 2000 Healing Power.
• Total = 8644.

• Heals for 189 Hp per second at 0 Healing Power.
• Heals for 279 Hp per second at 2000 Healing Power.

Signet of the Wild

• Heals you for 62 Hp per second at 0 Healing Power. (pets at 125)
• Heals you for 182 Hp per second at 2000 Healing Power. (pets at 625)

Spirit of Nature

• 1.5 Second Activation, 180 Second Cooldown.
• Can last up to 60 seconds like Water Spirit.
• Best Case, Spirit of Nature lasts for all 60 seconds, and you resummon it 180 seconds later (making total interval 241.5 seconds)
• Worst case, you get healed for only one second, then spirit dies, then resummon it 180 seconds later (making total interval 180 seconds)
• Healing varies. Skill says 320. Notes on Wiki say 480. I have observed it at 518. To give it the best chance, we will use that number. It Does Not change with your Healing power.

• Best Case, it heals for 31080 Total across 60 seconds.
• Worst Cast, it heals for 518 Total across 60 Seconds.

• Heals you for 129 Hp per second. (Best)
• Heals you for 2.14 Hp per second. (Worst)

Healing spring is just so much better compared to everything else. All those blasts, leaps and whirls for even more healing. Not to mention that the condition removal will stop thousands of damage from being done. Or even a dps boost if it removes weakness.

I too am totally disappointed in the Water Spirit. This guy is last to the spirit party as he is just plain fail in every way. AI in this game sucks so lets just add another spirit to the party /lol.

Numbers are wrong.
WS will heal just about as often as HS.
WS’s aqua heal increases with healing power.

WS is burst with a bigger initial heal and a bigger initial burst for allies.
Regen takes time and takes staying in the field.

WS is easy to use if you only summon it when you are first going to battle.
It helps if you have regen that will heal the spirit too.
You often WANT the spirit to die. Big burst with then only 20 seconds to resummons and 25 seconds with the activations. So great in a Lord room fight.

WS gives far more “on heal” activations for the beginning of a fight (vigorous renewal and might stacks with runes of altruism) for allies.

HS wins when you can stack, your allies stay in the field, you can burst, you can live with more heal over time than burst.

WS wins when you are spread out fighting or when you are going to move to keep up with the enemy.

WS works better when you play ranged weapons (even axe) and stay a little behind then rush up. Cleaves and melee stacking kills spirits. You want them to have to specifically target you for AE or melee to kill the WS.

Both are great. WS just is unusual. People try to run in as a perma up pet versus just when you need it. People forget that they want to kill the pet, that is damage you are not having your team take (assume you play backline as explained above). Don’t play melee weapons with Spirits. Bad policy because of cleaves etc. Make the enemy have to target JUST you. Run up to deliver the heal then back to range.
The regen/ on hit passive on WS works VERY nicely in a mobile fight as it has 1000 distance and traited it tends to always be in range.

I thought ranged weapons were a bad choice for spirits, because it puts you out of range of your party, so they don’t receive the buffs as reliably (I need to check they range of the buffs to be sure). Also the spirit actives work best when your close to the target.

Crispy, the waterfield duration, did you remember to include our trait that adds 33% duration to ALL regeneration we apply? (it is applied separately from boon duration in some twisted fashion i yet not understand though)

Nice comparisons. HS is undervalued by those numbers though, as they don’t take into account blast/leap you can pop on it as well as the condition removal. And it benefits allies as the icing on the cake… I really have a hard time picking anything else, apart from TU every now and then as a preventive heal.

Jaysin X.6740:

I thought ranged weapons were a bad choice for spirits, because it puts you out of range of your party, so they don’t receive the buffs as reliably (I need to check they range of the buffs to be sure). Also the spirit actives work best when your close to the target.

SB has 900 range max, spirit effects is 1000.
Axe has 900 range max (trait), spirit effects is 1000.
LB has 1800 range max (bugged manual fire), Spirit effect is 1000

@ Bombsaway.7198, I will answer you Line….

(1) Don’t tell me that the numbers are wrong if you aren’t going to bother to do the math yourself.
(2) Water Spirit, Will actually heal more often than Healing Spring. 5 seconds more often.
(3) Water Surge’s Self Heal increases with Healing Power (that is the big number). The Spirit Heal (the little number), does not scale, and it is fixed at 1930 healing whether or not you have 0 or 2000 healing power. Because of this, the Total healing with Water Spirit scales worse with Healing Power, than any of our other heals.
(4) Water Spirit does not have a bigger initial heal, as my math shows (that you have failed to prove wrong). Water Spirit is more than a thousand healing less than healing spring initially. The Burst heal (the spirit heal, not the self heal) is also weaker than if several allies use a blast finisher on the Healing Spring.
(5) Regen does take time, and I already said that if you do not account for that, Troll Unguent or Heal as One are better heals. However, 805 healing every 10 seconds also takes time, plus there is a chance it will never fire off. Atleast with Healing Spring, you get regen just by standing in the area, as well as condition removal.
(6) You can do the same thing with Troll Unguent, plus that will always heal you for a guaranteed amount (minus the poison status), and will heal you for more, for the exact same time investment.
(7) not sure what you are trying to say here.
(8) No, you don’t want the spirit to die. Because, if the spirit dies just before you can use Aqua Surge, then you have to wait 20 more seconds in order to use it, making the total wait time 45 seconds or more. Plus, when Aqua Surge activated on death, the Self heal doesn’t activate, only the pitiful amount of 1930, which means there is no risk involved if a player kills that spirit and you have it traited. (It should be the opposite. The Enemy player should be afraid to kill the spirit, because It might give you a nice big free self heal if he kills it, and he should be unsure of if you have that trait or not.)
(Intermission) Let me be clear, 1930 is not a burst by any definition.
(9) In a lords room, everyone is going melee on the boss anyways, which means that your healing spring is going to give regen to atleast five of them, which combined with the condition removal, heals them for more than Water Spirit does.
(10) Nope, wrong again. Heal as One is actually better because of the 20 second cooldown time, making it 20% faster than our next fastest heal.
(11) You are right, but how is that relevant to the Water Spirit?
(12) But you are wrong with this. If you spread out, no player will ever benefit from Aqua Surge because of the short range, and some will be out of range from the passive effect even. so, even less healing.
(13) No Spirit Build works effectively at long range, because your allies will never benefit from their effects. At medium to close range (900-300 range or so), but not melee range, then Spirits are more effective, but at that point, the boss’s AOE’s tend to kill spirits.
(14) No, the two are not great. Only one of them is. Healing Spring is an excellent heal with lots of regen, condition removal, and a 10 second water field. Water Spirit suffers from the same setbacks as other Spirits do. They are immobile, have pathetic Hp, can be stunned, knocked back, launched, etc, and can be killed. The numbers I posted above showed that the Water Spirit has the same general effective healing as Heal as One or Troll Unguent, just for you, not even including allies, BUT, They are not stronger than either of those options, and becuse of the weaknesses of spirits, You are going to have a hard time getting every last ounce of healing out of that Spirit, and even then, its only the same effectiveness as your other heals. (You should be rewarded for taking the extra risk of carrying around Spirits, not bound by the same effectiveness as your other heals)

Anything I missed?

….Edit : I did! Aqua Surge, and Healing Spring have the same range (radius of 240), so Healing Spring is definitely better, because allies have to be in close quarters to benefit from either heal anyways.

Prysin.8542:

Crispy, the waterfield duration, did you remember to include our trait that adds 33% duration to ALL regeneration we apply? (it is applied separately from boon duration in some twisted fashion i yet not understand though)

No, I calculated for 0% and 90% Boon duration, because 90% is the hard limit that Anet set for the game, even with that 33% extra boon duration trait, it does not go over 90%. These numbers just show you what it looks at the minimum and maximum amounts.

cafard.8953:

Nice comparisons. HS is undervalued by those numbers though, as they don’t take into account blast/leap you can pop on it as well as the condition removal. And it benefits allies as the icing on the cake… I really have a hard time picking anything else, apart from TU every now and then as a preventive heal.

You are right about that. I am planning to make another post at a later date showing what happens when you include runes that give bonus heals, regenerations, Blast finishers, etc, as well as how much possible healing you can give your allies with all skills, because these calculations are not complete without that.

Prysin.8542:

Jaysin X.6740:

I thought ranged weapons were a bad choice for spirits, because it puts you out of range of your party, so they don’t receive the buffs as reliably (I need to check they range of the buffs to be sure). Also the spirit actives work best when your close to the target.

SB has 900 range max, spirit effects is 1000.
Axe has 900 range max (trait), spirit effects is 1000.
LB has 1800 range max (bugged manual fire), Spirit effect is 1000

Ah ok ty.

Given a very bad situation where u activated aqua surge & have to move fast, it is possible for the caster to move out of range & recieve 0 benefits.This is not possible with our other heals.

The passive from water spirit is random. It may or may not come at a time of need. And if its a time of need, will 1 tick of 800-900 in every 10 sec be consequential?

@Prysin:
Is this additional 33% added the duration on tooltip for Heal Spring & on the displayed time left when u mouseover the buff after casting it?

A very bad situation? Are you sure you didn’t mean to say a typical situation? I tried it out, traited up and even if it follows me it is very very difficult to use the heal. Get to choose between dodging out of the heal field or eating a hit. The lack of condition removal is the real problem though. For running around alone it’s just really bad. In a group healing spring is still better for the water field and again condition removal.

Since I seem to die very quickly no matter what build I am in, knowing which heals are best for Ranger is paramount.
.
Thank you for doing so much work on this. I know it will help many as we move into builds that need healing.

Water spirit is awesome. Maybe not as a solo roamer, but it is a great support skill, that brings another type of heal over time into play. You can’t get more than one regen ticking, so if your party is already maxed out on that, this is where this spirit comes into play. Think outside the box here guys.

The terrible thing about spirits is that they die too fast in AoE scenarios ( most of PvE dungeons, fractals, wb’s etc. ). Not to mention, as the Op has shown in the initial post, that the water spirit gives a 8xx heal as rarely as every 10 s. The new healing skill brings nothing but an average healing skill. Now, compare it to, let’s say, warrior’s healing skill. You get what I mean.

Cheers

speedlight.3745:

Given a very bad situation where u activated aqua surge & have to move fast, it is possible for the caster to move out of range & recieve 0 benefits.This is not possible with our other heals.

The passive from water spirit is random. It may or may not come at a time of need. And if its a time of need, will 1 tick of 800-900 in every 10 sec be consequential?

@Prysin:
Is this additional 33% added the duration on tooltip for Heal Spring & on the displayed time left when u mouseover the buff after casting it?

That is the peculiar part. THe +33% does NOT show in the tooltip. I believe it may be added upon cast. I do for a fact know that it does NOT stack together with boon duration the way one would expect it to.

Corpus Christi.2057:

The terrible thing about spirits is that they die too fast in AoE scenarios ( most of PvE dungeons, fractals, wb’s etc. ). Not to mention, as the Op has shown in the initial post, that the water spirit gives a 8xx heal as rarely as every 10 s. The new healing skill brings nothing but an average healing skill. Now, compare it to, let’s say, warrior’s healing skill. You get what I mean.

Cheers

The new warrior healing skill isnt worth it unless 3+ people attack you, or you are attack by a single enemy with ultra fast attacks (mesmer with timewarp and sword or ranger with quickness and sword AA). Even then it is, not too great.

The new waterspirit is very strong as it allows you to “prepare” your heal. You can casually “miss” the timing and still benefit from it.

Prysin.8542:

Corpus Christi.2057:

The terrible thing about spirits is that they die too fast in AoE scenarios ( most of PvE dungeons, fractals, wb’s etc. ). Not to mention, as the Op has shown in the initial post, that the water spirit gives a 8xx heal as rarely as every 10 s. The new healing skill brings nothing but an average healing skill. Now, compare it to, let’s say, warrior’s healing skill. You get what I mean.

Cheers

The new warrior healing skill isnt worth it unless 3+ people attack you, or you are attack by a single enemy with ultra fast attacks (mesmer with timewarp and sword or ranger with quickness and sword AA). Even then it is, not too great.

The new waterspirit is very strong as it allows you to “prepare” your heal. You can casually “miss” the timing and still benefit from it.

What I said still remains.

Cheers

I Updated the Post to reflect what Healing Spring would look like at different Boon Durations….

• 0% for no boon duration.
• 30% accounting for having 30 points in Nature Magic.
• 43% accounting for 10% Boon duration from having 10 points in Nature Magic, and 33% Regen duration from Nature’s Bounty Trait.
• 63% Accounting for 30 points in Nature Magic, and Nature’s Bounty Trait.
  90% for max. possible boon duration or Regen duration. You can get this very easily by eating a Chocolate Omnomberry Cream, and equiping any runes that give boon duration or regen duration.

Speaking of Runes…..
Some Runes Give a Bonus Heal (Rune of the Flock and Rune of the Water), or Health Regeneration on using a healing Skill (Rune of Dwayna), as part of the 6th Rune Bonus.

Healing Bonus (Rune of the Flock, and Rune of the Water)

• It is the same for both Rune of the Flock, and Rune of the Water.
• This Bonus Heal activates exactly 1 second after using your healing skill. With Water Spirit’s Aqua Surge skill, It activates 1 second after your Casting Animation, not the Spirit’s.
• The Bonus Heal does affect Allies as well, so you can buff the healing amount that Aqua Surge does.
• Healing Amount is 690 at 0 Healing Power.
• Healing Amount is 1690 at 2000 Healing Power.

Heal As One

• Total Healing is now 7210 at 0 Healing Power, or 339 Hp per second.
• Total Healing is now 10210 at 2000 Healing Power, or 480 Hp per second.

Troll Unguent

• Total Healing is now 9190 at 0 Healing Power, or 353 Hp per second.
• Total Healing is now 12520 at 2000 Healing Power, or 484 Hp per second.

Healing Spring (0% Boon Duration)

• Total Healing is now 7950 at 0 Healing Power, or 261 Hp per second.
• Total Healing is now 15450 at 0 Healing Power, or 507 Hp per second.

Healing Spring (90% Boon Duration)

• Total Healing is now 10056 at 0 Healing Power, or 330 Hp per second.
• Total Healing is now 21606 at 2000 Healing Power, or 708 Hp per second.

Water Spirit (Best Case Scenario only)

• 8578 Total Healing at 0 Healing Power, or 330 Hp per second.
• Across 26 seconds, Allies can recieve 2093 healing from the Passive, 1930 from Aqua Surge, and 690 from the Bonus heal. A Total of 4713, or 181 Hp per second.
• 10766* Total Healing at 2000 Healing Power, or 414 Hp per second.
• Across 26 seconds, Allies can recieve 2093 healing from the Passive, 1930 from Aqua Surge, and 1690 from the Bonus heal. A Total of 5713, or 219 Hp per second.

(Not doing the Race heals or Antitoxin Spray, because I have proved that they are essentially not great, except for Antitoxin Spray, and only for very, very, very specialized purposes.)

Regen Bonus (Rune of Dwayna)

• Gives Regen for 5 Seconds. at 90% Boon Duration, it can be up to 9.5 Seconds.
• Healing Spring and Healing Seed already give Regen, so they don’t get as much benefit as other healing skills get.
• 130 Health regen at 0 Healing Power. 380 Health regen at 2000 Healing Power.
• At 0 Healing Power, at 0% Boon duration, that is a total of 650 extra Health.
• At 0 Healing Power, at 90% Boon duration, that is a total of 1235 extra Health.
• At 2000 Healing Power, at 0% Boon Duration, the total is 1900 extra Health.
• At 2000 Healing Power, at 90% Boon Duration, the total is 3610 extra Health. That is more than Double what the Bonus heal gives from the other rune sets.

Using the Best number only, because at this point when you have these runes, you probably have close to 2000 healing power and close to 90% boon duration anyways…..

• Heal as One’s Total Healing now becomes 12130, or 571 Hp per second.
• Troll Unguent’s Total Healing now becomes 14510, or 558 Hp per second.
• Water Spirit’s Total Healing now becomes 12686, or 488 Hp per second.
• Allies get from Water Spirit a Total of 7633, or 294 Hp per second, which is still less than the Total amount that Healing Spring can give allies from just Regen alone, at the level of 2000 Healing Power and 90% boon duration (380 Hp per second)

Going to bet a virtual donut that Chrispy will read this and say “oh that is when Water Spirit” kicks serious kitten and I never thought about that. Guessing we will have a fair but vigorous debate on some of the other times I would use WS, but not this one.

IF YOU HAVE A SOLID REGENERATION BOON UP LIKE NATURE’S VOICE, WS Is the Obvious Way to Heal A Group.

Remember, regeneration stacks not potency but duration. Assuming, you don’t need 30+ seconds of regeneration per heal/shout activation you can start to see where WS plays very well.

THE PASSIVE of WS IS NOT A REGEN EITHER. It is an “on hit ability”. Remember that. it will be critical later as we look at our analysis. So, it becomes 90 HPS in addition to the 272 (on my build below). NV and HS have almost identical regens for a group in HPS. NV tends to be perma up for spirit rangers.

Just for completion, Signet of the Wild does not use the regeneration boon either so you can have SOTW.

MY BUILD AND NUMBERS TO MAKE LIFE EASIER FOR THE COMPARISION (pretty standard settler/apoth build). I run a 0/0/30/30/10 build as I like mighty swap. I do know a lot of folks putting the 10 pts into marksmanship to get 50% greater conditions. We can have that discussion later.

I have 1107 heal which comes from apoth/settler gear and 10 in beast. My boon duration is 60% which is 30 from 30pts in nature and 30% from runes (4 altruism and 2 water). The rune set, I think is better than getting to 75% boon duration because each “on heal” you give allies and self 3 stacks of might on a good duration.

Let me lay out the heals for each ability:

Ok, my HS heals for:
5997 (Heal for pet and I)
6531 (Regen on 24 seconds) That is 272 per second (and tested it actually does within 3 pts every green tick).

My Water Spirit does:
4256 Initial
1930 (standard group heal)
902 (70% heal on hit with 10 second cool down).

Nature’s Voice is 4334 on 16 seconds. This is 270 hps. It ticks almost identically to HS. NV and HS effect the same number of targets. With the setup I have, Nature’s Voice is permanently up as the boon duration makes the effect last longer than the cool down.
The most an ally gets (assuming same ally which is not always the case in WvW but is almost always the case in small team roam) is 4-6 HPS more from HS.

Fern Hound is a regeneration and provides 10 seconds. It is 132 ticks. HS is double that (roughly) and lasts longer (if the fight goes that ling in wvw or spvp that is unusual). The advantage is the hound only requires you to be present for the activation versus having several short duration pulses.

Key For Later: If I use Water Spirit and don’t take Nature’s Voice, I can still take the Fern Hound for 10 seconds of 132 healing for the group in addition to all the healing WS provides. Again, this is all about the fact that regeneration boons stack duration vs potency.

Healing power benefits both NV and HS so, if I am doing the math correctly without multiple respecs you would get the same ratio and NV and HS should stay relatively the same for regen.

The hound’s F2 does NOT benefit from the traits of the ranger. So if you have higher boon duration than my 60% or higher heal than my 1107 you will find the fern is far less than 1/2 the regen power per tick. On the other hand, you may find that you have far less heal or +boon, (lots of builds don’t focus on boon/heal), in which case that fern will be significantly closer to the HPS of each tick of HS. HS is 130 hps with no +boon or heal. Well that is basically what the fern hound is. Sure, you have 8 seconds more of healing (but that is the only benefit other than condition removal) for it vs another heal.

Signet of the Wild (I don’t use it) would be 130 (but the green tag says 134 so you pick) and ALSO DOES NOT apply the regeneration boon. It will stack with a regeneration boon and even stack with the heal on hit from the passive of Water Spirit.

Again, the key is that regeneration if it is a regeneration boon (fern hound, nature’s voice, and healing spring) stack duration not potency. My nature’s voice is permanent (provided I refresh it) and does HPS within a point or two of HS. If you have no real boon or heal, that darn fern hound is pretty appealing as your regeneration source for the group.

In short, if you already have a regeneration boon that is relatively high HPS ticks, HS loses a lot of its healing impact. In the case of having nature’s voice, you don’t want HS UNLESS you want the condition removal. You could want more healing on the ranger and not the group, in which case both heal as one and troll ugent are more healing for the ranger and pet. The difference is as simple as “all at one but smaller heal” versus “10 seconds but bigger heal”. There are times when heal over time isn’t as valuable as a burst.

In pt2 we look at the heal without Nature’s Voice

WHAT ABOUT IF YOU DON’T ALREADY HAVE A REGEN BOON UP?

The key is the timeline of healing versus heal per second. In other words, 2k heal which occurs immediately may be more valuable than 4k heal over 10 seconds.

Likewise, to get the value of a regen in a water field, you have to be in the water field. On the other hand, to get the value of the regen from say nature’s voice, you simply need to be in the 360 range at the time of activation and continue to have it until it runs out (in my case 16 seconds later).

JUST EVALUATING BURST:

Now, I will use the definition of “burst” to include both the Water Spirit’s initial ranger/pet heal PLUS the aqua surge versus the initial ranger-pet heal of healing spring. The reason is sort of obvious. It happens quickly and is not a regen that will not add potency if you already have a strong/er regen.

Based on that, the burst of HS is actually about 10% lower than the burst on
That is about 10% more healing on the “burst” than what I get with HS. Ok, only 10% for all the condition removals etc. Seems wasteful.

Well, yes, if it is for the ranger and pet you would look at Heal as One that gives me 7367 burst or Troll Ugent that give me 9840 over 10 seconds. Again, that would do no one on my team any good just me and my pet.

Troll Ugent is not going to use the regeneration boon either (which is why it gets no benefit from +boon duration).

BUT I WANTED TO HEAL THE GROUP!

So, point #1: When you roam alone, WS is not ideal.

So, now you have the group heal+condition removal of HS versus the instant heal but no condition removal of WS.

WS tends to be better IMHO when:
1) You have a good regen lik NV with high heal and high boon,
2) You have basically no +boon or healing power so the fern hound is equalish
3) You have mediocre +boon and healing power and are willing to use a fern hound to bridge part of the regen gap from HS.

BIG WEAKNESS OF HS OVER OTHER SOURCES OF REGEN:
1) HS pulses out its regeneration. Other’s provide it on activation and then you retain it even if you move far away.
2) HS often loses much of its potential healing by people moving in and out of it getting some of the ticks but not all. (Some situations like PvE stacking this is no big deal).

Let’s say we have NO other source of regen. HS if you only got one pulse with my stats (see above ) would be 4 seconds at 272 or 1088. 1930 v 1088. The lower your +boon or healing power the bigger the disparity between the healing you give a group from WS burst and your getting only one pulse of HS.

Pt3 How Reality Looks

REALITY:
Here are the Heals You Can Pack with WS as your heal:
1)4256 Self/Pet Heal on WS (Every 25 Seconds) 170 HPS versus 200 HPS from HS
2) 1930 Group Heal on Aqua Surge (Every 25 Seconds) 77.2 HPS
3) 901 Passive Heal that is NOT a regen (Every 10-12 seconds) Let’s call it 75 HPS

So on the Burst v Burst it is 247 HPS for WS versus 200 HPS for the burst of HS (again using my 1107 Healing power, +60 boon duration).

Now in terms of TOTAL NON-REGEN HPS I have 322 HPS versus 200 HPS. That is huge, IF YOU CAN MATCH THE REGEN SOME OTHER WAY. Remember, regeneration boons stack

Regeneration Choices:

3a) Nature’s Voice 4334 on 16 seconds. 271 HPS Vs 272 HPS BUT, I no team member has to sit in the water field!!!!! That is the huge benefit. Likewise, this heal is actually permanently up. HS has 24 seconds of regen every 30 seconds.

Totally equal. No reason you should take HS except for combos and conditions if taking nature’s voice too.

3b) Use the Fern Hound for 1300 on 10 seconds or 130 HPS.

Now I have the 322 HPS (initial heal + burst group heal + passive on hit) + 130 (hound) for 452 HPS. Now, in a longer fight you have a cooldown with no regen we haven’t accounted for and you could say the HPS in a 25 second fight would be 52 vs 130. So you go from 452 to 357.

HS has 200 HPS (for the burst) + 277 HPS (for FULL duration of the 24 second sit in field regen). 477 HPS. Again, this is which +boon of 60% and 1107 healing power.

In a short fight, I do almost equal with hound and WS than with HS with benefits of not having to stand around in the water (or having group members). The healing is MUCH faster especially the difference in the initial burst too.

In a long fight, HS is only 25% more healing and that is assuming you stay in the field (not counting combos or conditions obviously).

The other thing that makes me personally love WS is that you get “on heal” procs much faster:
1) On activation
2) On active effect
3) On death if you trait nature’s vengeance vs nature’s voice (which is why we went thru the hound too)

I use runes and 1 trait that benefit:
1. Vigorous Renewal DOES go AE for 8 seconds on my build every “on heal proc”
2. 4 Runes of Altruism give 14 seconds of 3 stacks of might. The way this really works is that you summon when your group is taking a little damage then pop the first heal. You give them 6 stacks of might plus 1930 heal or 2 if your pet dies and you traited nature’s vengeance.

That to me is worth more than the condition removal. (NV also heals spirits)))))

Next up. What About builds with almost no heal/boon given the way regeneration really works?

Let’s say now that you have no boon duration and only 100 healing so you have mighty swap.

HS:
5020 Self/Pet Heal 167 HPS Burst.
2565 Regen over 18 seconds but on a 30 second refresh so 142.5 on short fights and 85 HPS on longer fights.
Total HPS: 309 (short)/252 (longer fight)
AND, you get to stand in the water for a long time.

WS:
3900 Heal (Self + Pet) 156 HPS
1930 (Group) 77 HPS
801 (Passive on Hit): every 10-12 seconds (will assume if you take spirits you take at least the adept trait!): 67 hps
Total burst HPS: 233 (vs the 167 HS burst)
Total HPS from just WS: 300 (vs 309 on a short fight with HS and 252 on long fight)
Fern Hound: 1300 over 10 seconds 130 (short fight)/52 (long fight)
Total HPS WS + Hound 430 (short fight) v 352 (Long fight)

Because you can take WS WITH another regeneration source (even group), your HPS is almost always better with WS than HS both as you have seen with my spirit build (high +boon and higher heal) and with a no boon/minimal healing power build.

And, HS really starts to fall apart when you take into account the way it pulses regeneration versus other regenerations which once activated create a much longer single duration (so you can move around). The numbers in all the equations above assume you actually get all the pulses of regeneration from the water field. Good luck with that. The reality is that HS is a much lower regeneration than it promises in most play modes.

As a ranger, you always have a second group or self regeneration boon option.

HS is great when:
1) You need to have 2 pets of which one is not the fern hound
2) You have obscene healing power and boon and are playing in a melee train, stack on commander type fight
3) You are playing stack on commander type or PvE and will play in the water and splash heals with blasts, whirls, leaps etc.
4) You need lots of condition removal.

WS really is a great heal ESPECIALLY if you do the traditional Spirit Ranger new build of 30 in nature with Nature’s Voice as your group regen.

Dude, a few things…

(1) – Reading a wall of text with jut capital and lowercase letters isn’t impossible, but it is more difficult. Its the reason why I like to Format my posts with BOLD, UNDERLINED, and ITALICIZED Print.

Please refer to this page on how to format your posts, so that way we aren’t staring at walls of text in the future ::: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/faq/

(2) – I am working on the stuff for the following::

• Natures Voice
• Fern Hound
• Moas
• Blast Finishers
• Leap Finishers

Nature’s Voice and the possible Perma Regen you can do with it gets very interesting when you use Heal as One or Troll Unguent, because it turns the Efficiency of both to nearly 800 Hp per second, and nearly doubles the possible healing you can do with both of them.

Fern Hound and Moa healing is Fixed, and those values are rather easy to figure out, but I will post them later on anyways.

Leap Finishers Only benefit the user, but you have one on both Sword and Greatsword, plus Canine pets have access to two of them. That’s some substantial healing for you or your pet, depending on the situation.

Blast Finishers get interesting once you have enough people using them. You have access to a few, and when working with almost any other class, the healing can start to stack up fast.

(3) – Nice Build, but, I’m not talking about any specific build or gear combination, or any strategy really beyond the use of the skill. My only goal here is to show the RAW numbers at the minimum healing power of 0, and the currently maximum possible healing power of 2000.

(4) – Water Spirit is still not more efficient than Healing Spring, and I will dedicate a nice long post to show you why. (You can expect to see that posted on Tuesday)

Simple conclusions. Thanks for the update on how to format. Will read that later.

For now, this can explain the premise of the walls of text for those who then want to go back and read them thinking it is provocative.

Chrispy is an obviously bright guy too, and this is a good healthy debate. Nothing but respect for his effort and thought practice. I just come to a different conclusion. You may come to either one or your own.

Overall, in most situations, WS beats HS is my hypothesis. This is ultimately, tied to the fact that regeneration stacks duration vs potency and I want as many non-regeneration sources of healing on account of this fact and the fact that I have so many other ways to get regen for the team. I am also basing my hypothesis on looking at the combined group/personal benefit of WS v HS. Running solo, a solo only heal of HaO and/or TU do better. Finally, HS is the worst regen in the sense that it has many small pulses forcing you to be in the field. Other regens provide the full duration so long as you are close on activation.

11 steps to why WS is often better than HS.

1) Regeneration stacks duration v. potency. Most of the heal of HS comes from regeneration.
2) Having another source of regeneration is what dramatically lowers the usefulness of HS as a heal (versus a combo or condition remover). Having replacement condition removers has the same effect for the condition remover benefit.
3) HS has a major defect as a regen in that it pulses. So you have multiple pulses of regen over a long time. It is the pulse that makes you stay in the field. If you have similar HPS regens, you want HS last.
4) In most pvp or wvw fights, you lose many of the pulses of HS because you won’t stay in the field for the whole duration (especially the insanely high durations you get with boon).
5) Other regens, (Fern Hound and Nature’s Voice), provide the full duration on allies so long as they are within range on activation. No pulses is a huge benefit.
6) NV is typically the full benefit in regen of HS with no pulses. Boon is the friend of NV much more than HS because of pulses.
7) ) Fern hound negates most of the benefit of HS if no boon or no heal power. Fact, is that the fixed 1930 of WS does better that way too.
8) The “burst” of WS is better than the non-regen self-heal of HS. You have to take into account that both the initial self heal of WS and the group heal occur “at once” and are added together for burst. You can’t fairly compare WS self to HS self and WS group to HS regen for the reason that the group heal is benefit on activation vs benefit over period of time.
9) 1930 “burst” group heal does not conflict with regen your team already has nor does the 75+ hps “on hit” passive. Because of that a lower value regeneration (such as fern hound) when added to these non-conflicting numbers, heals an ally more.
10) Keeping the pet alive to get one active heal off is easy. You only need one active heal per pet cast (given the on death re-summon and activation is effectively 25 seconds the same as waiting for the cooldown). Don’t run around out of a fight with the water spirit up!!!!
11) All things being equal or even close, having control of when healing occurs and healing all at once versus steady ticks over a period of time is better.

Thanks for the FAQ on what the commands are for formatting. I couldn’t find them!

Nature’s Voice

• Nature Magic. Grandmaster Major Trait.
• Applies 10 Seconds of Health Regen to you and allies. At 90% Boon Duration, this can become 19 Seconds.
• Regen is 130 Hp per second at 0 Healing Power, and 380 Hp per second at 2000 Healing Power.

• Total at 0 Healing Power and 0% Boon duration (which is not possible), is 1300
• At 0 Healing Power and 30% Boon Duration (30 pts in Nature Magic), is 1690
• At 0 Healing Power and 63% Boon Duration (Nature’s Bounty Trait), is 2119
• At 0 Healing Power and 90% Boon Duration, Total is 2470
• Total at 2000 Healing Power and 0% Boon Duration (not possible), is 3800
• At 2000 Healing Power and 30% Boon Duration, Total is 4940
• At 2000 Healing Power and 63% Boon Duration, Total is 6194
• At 2000 Healing Power and 90% Boon Duration, Total is 7220

• These numbers are from just one use of any Shout with the Nature’s Voice Trait. You can Apply perma regen very easily, even with less than 90% boon duration, in which case, I will be using only the hp per second values of the Health Regeneration, and applying them to other heals by using this formula :::

(Old Healing Total) + (Regen per Second x Skill Interval) = (New Healing Total)

Skill Interval being the Skill’s Cooldown plus Activation time.

(its getting late, I’ll show what this can potentially do to your total heals tomorrow, but for a preview….)

Heal as One

• New Total at 0 Healing Power and 30% Boon Duration (Lowest Possible), Total Healing Becomes ::: (6520 + 1690) = 8210, or 386 Hp per second.
• At 2000 Healing Power and 30% Boon Duration, New Total Healing Becomes::::
  (8520 + 4940) = 13460, or 633 Hp per second.

• New Total at 0 Healing Power and Perma Regen, Total Healing Becomes:::
  (6520) + (130 × 21.25) = 9282, or 437 Hp per second.
• At 2000 Healing Power, and Perma Regen, Total Healing Becomes:::
  (8520) + (380 × 21.25) = 16595, or 781 Hp per second.

• If you add in the Bonus Heal from Rune of the Flock or Rune of the Water, and you have 2000 Healing Power and Perma Regen, new Total becomes :::
  18285 or 860 Hp per second.
• Allies (and your pet) will recieve a total healing of 9765 from this heal (1690 from rune, 8075 from regen), or 460 Hp per second.

• Bonus heal from weapon swap from Sigil of Renewal at 2000 healing power is 574, every weapon swap (10 seconds), or a total of 1148 every 20 seconds on average, so, for the duration of Heal as One, 2 uses on average.
• Heal as One’s Heal now becomes 19433, or 914 Hp per second.
• Allies can now recieve a Total healing of 10913, or 514 Hp per second.

• Signet of the Wild will give healing of 182 per second at 2000 healing power, making the new Total Healing 23301, or 1096 Hp per second.
• Pets recieve 625 hp per second from Signet of the Wild at 2000 Healing Power. Since they are normally close enough to recieve the benefits of the Sigil and Rune, and you share boons with them anyways…. Their Total Healing for every interval is ::: 32714, or 1539 Hp per second.

Not to denounce Water Spirit (which I’ve been doing far too much already), but, thats what I’ve been using for the last year (minus 150 or so healing power, don’t have all ascended items yet because Trinkets don’t exist for Magi armor). Its far more than enough healing that does not rely on a spirit that can be one shot killed. Water Spirit may actually be able to heal allies for alot more, which I will show in a few days.

edit : Thanks to some unforseen things happening, that healing spring to Water Spirit comparison will come later now.

Great collection of data – thank you.

One question. Have you checked if Beastmastery IV: Compassion Training affects the heal values for water or nature spirits?

(…also, I don’t see Beastmastery XII: Natural Healing mentioned, though I may have missed it…)

_ My thoughts on how to bucket heals_

I don’t tend to think of heals as just heal per second because that leads to:

A) Discounting the Value of speed of healing and player control on the timing of the heal. In short, hps assumes constant value where the value of a heal differs at different points of a fight.

B) Ignoring pulse based healing which is difficult to get the full value (it tends to overstate what you will really get)

C) Ignores situations where the healing pulse/regen pulse has no damage to heal or only partially heals. This is less a problem when you control the heal as players typically wait until they can fully utilize the benefit.

D) Often ignores, though not necessarily, the inability to stack HPS of certain classes of healing especially regeneration which stacks duration versus potency. Note: This only applies to heals which actually use the regeneration buff.

My Buckets for Heals

1) Heal on Activate This is your basic heal. I treat them quite separately. You can stack as many heal on activates as you wish. This is the most valuable heal because you control it more or lesscompletely in terms of timing. This is also why it tends to be smaller.

Water Spring has two heal on actives.
Healing Spring has one heal on active and one regeneration.

I think of Healing Spring as two heals because that makes life easier in evaluating when it works better or worse.

Typically, but not always, these heals benefit from healing power.

This also includes any heal where you control the activation such as a heal on the swapping of a weapon or pet.

2) Heal Over Time This is a heal which DOES NOT use the regeneration buff. It therefore stacks with other sources of healing but takes time. The value of the heal is determined by both the total value of the heal and the amount of time it takes.

A 1000 heal which occurs over 10 seconds may be more valuable than a 2000 heal which occurs over 30 seconds.

Heal Over Times include:

1) Troll Unguent
2) Passive ability of Water Spirit once activated
3) SotW

The key to +_heal over time_ is that these heals benefit ONLY from healing power and never from additional boon duration. Their duration is fixed. That means a regeneration (below) is often more healing by providing more duration.

So if you had only a heal over time or a regeneration buff on a character with any sort of plus boon duration, you would want the regeneration buff.

You can stack heal over time abilities. That is key!

3) Regeneration Regeneration is very specific. It is a buff and can be removed by enemies under some conditions. It applies healing over time.

The biggest issue with regeneration is:

Multiple sources of regeneration do not stack effect, they stack duration (with the most effective regeneration source defining the amount healed per tick).

The first regeneration effect is worth more than subsequent effects

On the plus side, a regeneration heal typically gets the benefits of:
1) Being a boon (for certain skills that look to providing you with a benefit if you have a boon e.g. bountiful hunter)
2) Benefiting from both increased boon duration and increased healing power
3) Having traits that benefit regenerations “Nature’s Bounty” for ranger, “Concentration Training” for pets and all “Plus Boon Duration” Runes.

This tends to be the third most effective heal simply because the healing occurs too slowly. It is excellent supplemental healing but that healing is largely fixed and out of my control. Likewise, their is enormous value in having one regeneration but because two stack duration versus potency, it is quite limited.

Note *In ranking which regeneration you want, besides the size of the ticks, you should consider whether the regeneration applies its whole duration once or pulses"

Regenerations that provide the whole duration at one time are generally more effective. The key time that tends not to be true is when enemies remove boons (which is pretty rare in this game). In that case, the pulse would reapply.

You *_want*_ a regeneration. You just want the right one!

4) Heal on Proc This involves any heal which requires a specific action you can’t control per se to trigger. The classic example is a weapon sigil that provides a chance to proc on a critical hit. You don’t fully control when you crit.

Note The passive effect of Water Spirit is a heal on proc technically. Because it provides a 35/70% chance to trigger on a hit and because people hit a lot in the 10 second cooldown, it is consistent.

The key with a heal on proc is understanding the likelihood of the proc. In high crit builds, on crit healing works well and you look more to the cool down.

The key to real effectiveness healing is to be able to:
1) Stack as many types of healing as possible
2) Pick the best regeneration (which is rarely a pulse based regeneration)
3) Have the most control possible on the timing of the healing
4) Get as much healing as you can which is instant
a. People tend to blow bit hit skills when they think they can finish you or get close. I almost always find that quickly filling up the health bar is much more troubling for my opponent than a constant heal.