Guild Wars 2

Ok, i have seen topics on making it a trap and I just completely disagreed with that idea.

So made this thread to get thoughts/ideas on HS being a signet

HS is a decent heal with good party support. It drops the longest water field in the game and applies regen and removes conditions periodically. Seems pretty good.
Add into that signet mastery for might, opening strike and cooldown reduction. Seems a bit powerful in all honesty so increase the signet duration to say ~36secs.
Puts the cooldown with mastery back to around 29seconds which is pretty close to what it is already at. Maybe even decrease the water field from 10secs to 8secs?

Seems pretty good, right? So what about passives? Needs to be something that in all honesty wont make the heal mandatory.

HS Passive Idea 1: Heal yourself every time your pet attacks (set amount, doesnt scale with damage given)
Passive Idea 2: Heal your pet every time you take damage/attack (Dont know if the heal would be better on attack or on damage taken)
Passive Idea 3: Your pet periodically converts conditions on itself into boons (since the actual spring cleanses conditions, a passive PET condi cleanse isnt soo bad)
Passive Idea 4: Boon Duration or Condition Reduction on you AND your pet (reduction might be better since there is a trait for boon duration already, something like 10-15% maybe)

Ideas, thoughts, feedback?

Edit:
Passive Idea 5: Apply a random boon do you and your pet while in combat.

I understand your point of view, but something about it just feels…wrong…to me. Like making HS a signet feels forced rather than natural. Rangers need to be all natual.

Change the name to Nature Signet. Done.

HS is fine where it is, if you want to change any heal skill into a Signet, turn the Water Spirit into one. That thing is so useless it might as well become a passive icon.

Making it a Signet would mean the active would need to be significantly nerfed and there’s no chance any passive choice could even come close to the coolness of Healing Spring. Compared with other healing signets, ours should be attached to Heal as One.
1: An okay effect, very rangery, what we should have from our signet heal should we ever get it. Especially if the heal works both ways (our hits heal pet, their hits heal us ala RaO), that would definitely feel like a Ranger skill. Perhaps called the Signet of Symbiosis or something?
2: Very dull on its own and from my experience ineffective, you animal companion is either nigh unkillable or dying incredibly quickly. It could probably get added to healing spring with very few downsides.
3: The Ranger doesn’t do condi convertion, we can make our pet take conditions, but that’s all.
4: Boon duration doesn’t make much sense when the active is one of our best sources of regeneration. Condition reduction is okay as the healing skill you take to fight conditions.
5: We’re not Mesmers or engis, our unreliability comes from our pet and how close they consider to be returned to you today.

If the skill was made a trap, it would work with a full blown condi build taking poison master as the utilities are eaten by traps and the condi removal traits are eaten by Poison Master. The skill was also a trap back in GW1 and was a really cool skill even if it wasn’t terribly useful. I still believe it should go back to its roots.

OP didn’t even mention why it shouldn’t become a trap beside “I don’t like it”. I mean really? I agree that the signet thing is very forced. You want to rename it, icon would need to change, in the end you completely change the identity of the skill.

That a heal on trap works shows the new guardian skill. Imo just give the complete heal on casting and activate the water field and condi pulsing when an enemy enters. Alternatively it could not trigger on enemies but on allies with less than 50% hp. This would mean it doesnt change at all as long as you cast it below 50% or if you drop below 50% after casting it. Actually would allow to “precast” the whole thing.

HotHit.6783:

~snip~

Agreed with everything.

the passive would need better group support. thats the role I want to be better since I play that role.

Perhaps create a new signet called … Signet of the Carnivore.

-You and your pet gain health on attack. Similar to the Thief signet of malice.

Also we need an elite signet. Signet of the beast master.

Passive- increases your pet damage by 25% and resistance to damage by 50%
Active – Revive your pet, CD XX seconds.

Regardless of all the ideas from making it a trap to signet…
…
I don’t find a single problem with the ability, so far. Why would you try to fix what isn’t broken? It still is the best supportive heal in the game. And still balanced in it’s state.

While I like some of the ideas, I can’t imagine why would I like to change the ability to make it a subject for balancing from the very core again.

Because they said that they will put EVERY single skill in a category.

Heal as One will become a shout, Troll Unguent a survival skill etc. They want to categorize stuff and the closest for healing spring are traps. Well maybe a survival skill as well but not really imo.

The only one of our 3 “unclassified” heals that makes sense as a signet to me is TU. It is already quite passive with its high uptime.

Obviously our healing signet can’t have a passive heal as it steps on the toes of SotW. So it needs to be more like the Guarding signet with a beneficial non-healing passive and a healing active.

HS makes sense as is as survival or a trap to me, no need to change it drastically to make it a signet. The Water field and condi cleanse are enough “bonus” for the skill.

Dojo.1867:

OP didn’t even mention why it shouldn’t become a trap beside “I don’t like it”. I mean really? I agree that the signet thing is very forced. You want to rename it, icon would need to change, in the end you completely change the identity of the skill.

That a heal on trap works shows the new guardian skill. Imo just give the complete heal on casting and activate the water field and condi pulsing when an enemy enters. Alternatively it could not trigger on enemies but on allies with less than 50% hp. This would mean it doesnt change at all as long as you cast it below 50% or if you drop below 50% after casting it. Actually would allow to “precast” the whole thing.

How about the fact that making it a trap completly messes with how the skill works and will basically be a nerf.

When I drop HS it’s because I need it right then and there, not because I need it within a minute… I like it just the way it is, but that doesn’t matter as it is going to change for better or worse. It’s most likely to get turned into a trap that has arming time and blah blah crap. Oh well. I’d really really like a healing Signet like malice or the Guardian signet. Either one I could deal with quite nicely.

If they make it a signet:

Passive:
At the beginning of leaps and blasts create a healing spring around you for 3seconds.

Active:
Heal yourself/pet and remove 1 conditions from 5 nearby allies.

Levetty.1279:

Dojo.1867:

OP didn’t even mention why it shouldn’t become a trap beside “I don’t like it”. I mean really? I agree that the signet thing is very forced. You want to rename it, icon would need to change, in the end you completely change the identity of the skill.

That a heal on trap works shows the new guardian skill. Imo just give the complete heal on casting and activate the water field and condi pulsing when an enemy enters. Alternatively it could not trigger on enemies but on allies with less than 50% hp. This would mean it doesnt change at all as long as you cast it below 50% or if you drop below 50% after casting it. Actually would allow to “precast” the whole thing.

How about the fact that making it a trap completly messes with how the skill works and will basically be a nerf.

It would bot change it “completely.” The change is minimal, really. How would it be a nerf?

TheFantasticGman.9451:

When I drop HS it’s because I need it right then and there, not because I need it within a minute… I like it just the way it is, but that doesn’t matter as it is going to change for better or worse. It’s most likely to get turned into a trap that has arming time and blah blah crap. Oh well. I’d really really like a healing Signet like malice or the Guardian signet. Either one I could deal with quite nicely.

You could still drop the trap right then and their. The only difference would be a slight timing alteration that would allow for complex and powerful placement and rotation. Heaven forbit it will actually make you think

Well, they can’t call it “healing signet”, so… “spring signet”?

Nah, I don’t like it. I think it’s much better as a trap. They can have it work as a non-standard trap, so it maintains the current functionality but is simply classified as a trap for the purposes of traits and such. This effectively buffs the skill without actually changing the functionality of the skill.

Razor.9872:

Levetty.1279:

Dojo.1867:

OP didn’t even mention why it shouldn’t become a trap beside “I don’t like it”. I mean really? I agree that the signet thing is very forced. You want to rename it, icon would need to change, in the end you completely change the identity of the skill.

That a heal on trap works shows the new guardian skill. Imo just give the complete heal on casting and activate the water field and condi pulsing when an enemy enters. Alternatively it could not trigger on enemies but on allies with less than 50% hp. This would mean it doesnt change at all as long as you cast it below 50% or if you drop below 50% after casting it. Actually would allow to “precast” the whole thing.

How about the fact that making it a trap completly messes with how the skill works and will basically be a nerf.

It would bot change it “completely.” The change is minimal, really. How would it be a nerf?

Because it changes it from n on demand water field with condi clear to something your enemy is in control of.

Razor.9872:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

When I drop HS it’s because I need it right then and there, not because I need it within a minute… I like it just the way it is, but that doesn’t matter as it is going to change for better or worse. It’s most likely to get turned into a trap that has arming time and blah blah crap. Oh well. I’d really really like a healing Signet like malice or the Guardian signet. Either one I could deal with quite nicely.

You could still drop the trap right then and their. The only difference would be a slight timing alteration that would allow for complex and powerful placement and rotation. Heaven forbit it will actually make you think

Adding needless complexity doesn’t make it better. Not sure why you think making it more difficult to use makes it better. That’s a weird train of thought I can’t get on. I already did the thinking to know when I need to time my HS. I need it when I hit the button. Not sure why you want to make HS artificially harder to use when it doesn’t have to be.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/New-Signets-from-Old-Spirits

Better idea imo.

Oh, and for the record, I didnt give reasons why I disliked HS becoming a trap because when debating/arguing this point, there would be 2 roads to go.
1st would be to argue why a HS trap is a bad idea, the other would be to suggest an alternative for HS, i.e. a Signet. If I wanted to put up ideas for why a HS trap was a bad idea, I would have done so in the other thread, hence why I went the other road and made this thread where people can give suggestions/feedback/criticisms on this idea.

And in all honesty, the Devs will probably choose what category to place HS in regardless of threads like these, but if it was made a Signet, well then I gave suggestions as to the functionality of it and how to work around it so it doesnt seem too powerful/mandatory.

But in all honesty, a lot of people will keep to their ideas regardless of debates/arguments so to each his own I guess.

Ah, don’t take it so hard. A lot of Rangers like Healing Spring as is, and though your suggestions came from a good place, it would have been better to suggest a signet heal in general.

I state this since almost every class that uses Signets had one as a heal at launch, with the exception of Mesmer and Necromancer, in which their healing signet came later on. The Ranger has yet to receive theirs.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Razor.9872:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

When I drop HS it’s because I need it right then and there, not because I need it within a minute… I like it just the way it is, but that doesn’t matter as it is going to change for better or worse. It’s most likely to get turned into a trap that has arming time and blah blah crap. Oh well. I’d really really like a healing Signet like malice or the Guardian signet. Either one I could deal with quite nicely.

You could still drop the trap right then and their. The only difference would be a slight timing alteration that would allow for complex and powerful placement and rotation. Heaven forbit it will actually make you think

Adding needless complexity doesn’t make it better. Not sure why you think making it more difficult to use makes it better. That’s a weird train of thought I can’t get on. I already did the thinking to know when I need to time my HS. I need it when I hit the button. Not sure why you want to make HS artificially harder to use when it doesn’t have to be.

The complexity is not needless. You are impossing that thought. Making it more difficult will make it better because it will raise the skill cap for the skill (something this game needs more of) while also, and more importantly, raising its potential power. Doesn’t saying “I need it when I hit the button” sound dull to you? There are already so many skills that do that. Sure it wuld be harder to time, but then it would also be balanced accordingly for an even higher payoff. That, coupled with traps allowing for potential double activations, would make this skill crazy strong when used correctly. I’m not saying this skill has to be more complicated (devs may not go in that direction), I’m just saying that the added complexity would help provide a combat reward for players who play more skillfully than those who don’t — further incentivising personal skill improvement among the Ranger playerbase.

The complexity is needless for PvE, for PvP it could be made to work as an advantage. There is no real need for an increase in skill in PvE, you don’t need to make tactical decisions about your heal skill, you just use it when you need it. I would really hate to see HS get an activation or trigger condition in PvE, that would be terrible.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

The complexity is needless for PvE, for PvP it could be made to work as an advantage. There is no real need for an increase in skill in PvE, you don’t need to make tactical decisions about your heal skill, you just use it when you need it. I would really hate to see HS get an activation or trigger condition in PvE, that would be terrible.

Hopefully A-net will make strides to change that. Besides that, how would an activation trigger condition be terrible? Explain?

Because it is not needed for a heal skill in PvE and adds needless complexity. If they want to make a heal with a trigger condition, make another one and leave HS as it is, it’s near perfect.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Because it is not needed for a heal skill in PvE and adds needless complexity. If they want to make a heal with a trigger condition, make another one and leave HS as it is, it’s near perfect.

How is the complexity needless? Explain? You say it is not needed — but is anything needed, really? How about different?

Nothing is needed except food/water/shelter, except if you do not accept that life is needed. What do you gain by adding complexity? Any gain you do actually get will be overshadowed by the additional conditions placed on the skill, therefore, adding the complexity is needless because it brings nothing to the table. Simplicity is good.

To leave the skill as it is, yet classify it as a trap so as to benefit from the traits and runes does also bring additional complexity because it would now be ground targetable (via the trait) and also grant super speed and stealth (from the rune) so you have to make additional decisions and thoughts about how to use it.

But that is a choice, to play it that way. To change the core skill so it plays totally different would detract from the already excellent skill. Since the skill is already excellent, to tack on additional complexity, takes away more than it could possibly bring.

If the idea is merely to make it different, just make a different skill.

While I’ll admit adding a “activate on trigger” would make HS powerful by allowing Rangers to chain together two 10 second water fields that grant regeneration and clears conditions – do you really think Anet would allow something like that without nerfing it?

Razor.9872:

The complexity is not needless. You are impossing that thought. Making it more difficult will make it better because it will raise the skill cap for the skill (something this game needs more of) while also, and more importantly, raising its potential power. Doesn’t saying “I need it when I hit the button” sound dull to you? There are already so many skills that do that. Sure it wuld be harder to time, but then it would also be balanced accordingly for an even higher payoff. That, coupled with traps allowing for potential double activations, would make this skill crazy strong when used correctly. I’m not saying this skill has to be more complicated (devs may not go in that direction), I’m just saying that the added complexity would help provide a combat reward for players who play more skillfully than those who don’t — further incentivising personal skill improvement among the Ranger playerbase.

I guess you haven’t noticed but the game is for casual players… which is why it’s not an esport no matter how hard they try. They aren’t about adding any type of complexity (=complicated) needlessly. That is why we haven’t gotten additional pet controls. Remember? Jon Sharp said they didn’t want to scare away new players to the Ranger by overwhelming them with additional pet controls and Jon Peters hasn’t disagreed with that statement. Somehow, someway, someone snuck in a keybind for active/passive, which was awesome. We are getting a dumbed-down trait system because the one we have now is too hard to balance. So if the Devs are making it easier for themselves to balance the classes, what makes you think they are going to make anything more complex for the players? And what are you talking about skill cap? Look at the main hand sword. Many, myself included, consider it a fun high skill (because you really need to time your dodge in the animation chain well along with making sure you time it to get out the way of the AI attacks) weapon, but many (arguably as many that like it) want it “fixed” so the leap doesn’t root you in place. The general playerbase takes the path of least resistance, which is the least complicated/complex way to do things, so why would they take something that is not complicated and works really well, and make it complicated and potentially not work as well? Because, yes, it is equally likely that they will nerf it to compensate for usage with runes, etc.

Healing Spring – Trap
Heal As One – Signet
Troll Unguent – Survival

Anything else just doesn’t make sense.

Amins.3710:

Healing Spring – Trap
Heal As One – Signet
Troll Unguent – Survival

Anything else just doesn’t make sense.

Healing Spring makes a lot more sense as Survival then a trap.

In GW, HS is a trap, TU is survival and HaO is an Elite skill. HaO makes perfect sense as a shout to me.

Levetty.1279:

Amins.3710:

Healing Spring – Trap
Heal As One – Signet
Troll Unguent – Survival

Anything else just doesn’t make sense.

Healing Spring makes a lot more sense as Survival then a trap.

No. Not really.

Heal As One will be a shout btw. Devs already said that and it works fine imo.

Also everbody ignored my suggestion for when it became a trap that it would trigger on allies with less than 50% hp. Most of the time you will cast it below 50% hp anyway or you could still use your pet to trigger it if it is below 50% or any ally. I see this version as a buff because you could indeed precast it then.

The initial heal should ofc always stay instant, the trap part would be just the water field with regen/condi clear.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Razor.9872:

The complexity is not needless. You are impossing that thought. Making it more difficult will make it better because it will raise the skill cap for the skill (something this game needs more of) while also, and more importantly, raising its potential power. Doesn’t saying “I need it when I hit the button” sound dull to you? There are already so many skills that do that. Sure it wuld be harder to time, but then it would also be balanced accordingly for an even higher payoff. That, coupled with traps allowing for potential double activations, would make this skill crazy strong when used correctly. I’m not saying this skill has to be more complicated (devs may not go in that direction), I’m just saying that the added complexity would help provide a combat reward for players who play more skillfully than those who don’t — further incentivising personal skill improvement among the Ranger playerbase.

I guess you haven’t noticed but the game is for casual players… which is why it’s not an esport no matter how hard they try. They aren’t about adding any type of complexity (=complicated) needlessly. That is why we haven’t gotten additional pet controls. Remember? Jon Sharp said they didn’t want to scare away new players to the Ranger by overwhelming them with additional pet controls and Jon Peters hasn’t disagreed with that statement. Somehow, someway, someone snuck in a keybind for active/passive, which was awesome. We are getting a dumbed-down trait system because the one we have now is too hard to balance. So if the Devs are making it easier for themselves to balance the classes, what makes you think they are going to make anything more complex for the players? And what are you talking about skill cap? Look at the main hand sword. Many, myself included, consider it a fun high skill (because you really need to time your dodge in the animation chain well along with making sure you time it to get out the way of the AI attacks) weapon, but many (arguably as many that like it) want it “fixed” so the leap doesn’t root you in place. The general playerbase takes the path of least resistance, which is the least complicated/complex way to do things, so why would they take something that is not complicated and works really well, and make it complicated and potentially not work as well? Because, yes, it is equally likely that they will nerf it to compensate for usage with runes, etc.

How do know know it wouldn’t work well? You were just saying that you like the skill sword can take to use, right? Why not give this a shot? I think you would like it. If they end up nerfing it for balance, then I guess you would be right. But if they buff it for compensation, then I think you could be surprised how potent this could be.

The point is, it is already good. Why fix what aint broken? It would more than likely end up broken.

Razor.9872:

How do know know it wouldn’t work well? You were just saying that you like the skill sword can take to use, right? Why not give this a shot? I think you would like it. If they end up nerfing it for balance, then I guess you would be right. But if they buff it for compensation, then I think you could be surprised how potent this could be.

Because Anet’s track record with Ranger has a lot more black eyes than it does bright spots. I’m done putting faith in Anet or holding hope that they’ll not screw it up. I ended up disappointed far more times than I have delighted by their balance decisions. My glass was half full for the longest time, but until certain developers leave the company (such as Jon Sharp did) I refuse to get my hopes up again. On top of that, it’s a lot harder to get Anet to reverse it’s decision on balancing (since we have to wait minimum of six months between balance patches) than it would be to get them just not to screw it up in the first place.

contra traps:
-placing costs time, we dont have infight, maybe the pve´ler
-making it into a second heal after activation forces to balance the initial heal down. so weaker heal at the cost that the enemy could be smart enough to not step into it, only pve´ler have no risk at this.
-i spoke to good guards, no one thinks about using such a heal, ranger already has a step to step heal, the water spirit aaaand all hate it.

pro trap:
use of trapper rune (wvw only)
a bit better support through placing (compare it to sylvari heal, anyone use that?!)
placable (range of 600)

pro signet:
same effect as it is
additional passive when not on cd
might when traited (like vigor on heal trait, the spring could give might every pulse)

contra signet:
it feels forced…xD weakest argument ever xD
change the identity of a skill….no we add stuff..