Guild Wars 2

I’m curious, as I’ve seen it mentioned a few times, but what is this so called Healing Spring nerf?

I mean, I’ve seen the same magical “leaked notes” that everybody else has, but I fail to see a nerf…

Well it isn’t called a nerf exactly because it has different impact in PVP and PVE.

In PVP it’s a buff, cause you can’t stay and wait for all the regeneration it provides, you’d have to stay 15sec in one place, after patch it will be more condensed and you’ll gain that regeneration in shorter amount of time.

In PVE it’s a nerf. With 15sec duration as it is now you gain longest water field (more combos healing you and allies) and condition removal you gain from it is spread in time.

And you also can’t grant vigor on every pulse with healing spring, if the nerf turns out to be true.

Edit: And let it be known that it’s duration will be reduced to 10 seconds.

For example with greatsword the possible amount of healing is lower than before because you can only do one leap finisher in the water field because its duration was lowered from 15 to 10 seconds.
For cleric rangers this means 2k less heal per 30 seconds.

maybe i’m the only one to be happy for those changes…
remember that almost every time isn’t a good idea to wait your anemies attacks over your healing spring (look at necro’s marks and warrior’s 100b)so while
before we got:
15 sec water field
1 clear condition every 3sec
3 sec regen every 3 sec for a total of 18sec regen
now we get:
10 sec water field (1 less combo leap with gs = 1320 less hp without healing power)
1 clear condition every 2 sec
3 sec regen every 2 sec for a total of 18sec regen

the main difference i can notice is that while we lost a combo field (how many times you did it 2 times in pvp? seriously… 1 time was enough) but we gain a better condition remover and a stackable regen; while before we got regen if we were “over” the water field (3 sec every 3 sec) now we can “wait” 2 seconds and run away with 6sec stacked regen… in my opinion to be “free to run away” is a great thing for a class which must not be captured by enemies…

I think the changes are not bad overall. It’s just different. Like you said during these 10 seconds its more powerful, but it will only last 10 seconds for finishers.
I could imagine that they didn’t want two rangers being able to provide 100% waterfield uptime. With the new changes it will be even better in WvW if you have three rangers with good coordination. Removing a condition every two seconds is awesome.

As a WvW player, I consider that (possible) change more a buff than a nerf.

I think the Pro’s Cancel out any Cons it gets this patch, so Its about even.

I really like the fact that it makes Healing Spring a lot more useful as a self heal skill.

Kjeldoran.3849:

maybe i’m the only one to be happy for those changes…
remember that almost every time isn’t a good idea to wait your anemies attacks over your healing spring (look at necro’s marks and warrior’s 100b)so while
before we got:
15 sec water field
1 clear condition every 3sec
3 sec regen every 3 sec for a total of 18sec regen
now we get:
10 sec water field (1 less combo leap with gs = 1320 less hp without healing power)
1 clear condition every 2 sec
3 sec regen every 2 sec for a total of 18sec regen

the main difference i can notice is that while we lost a combo field (how many times you did it 2 times in pvp? seriously… 1 time was enough) but we gain a better condition remover and a stackable regen; while before we got regen if we were “over” the water field (3 sec every 3 sec) now we can “wait” 2 seconds and run away with 6sec stacked regen… in my opinion to be “free to run away” is a great thing for a class which must not be captured by enemies…

You forgot something there, let me fix it.

With Vigorous Renewal, you’d get the following.

15s Water Field
1 condition removal every 3s
3s Regen for every 3 second pulse for a total of 18s of regen
5s Vigor for every 3 second pulse for a total of 30s of vigor.

With the new way it works, you’ll get the following with Vigorous Renewal.

10s Water Field
1 condition removal every 2s
3s Regen for every 2 second pulse for a total of 18s of regen
5s Vigor ONLY FOR WHEN YOU FIRST PUT IT DOWN!

This is the thing everybody is having a problem with, which we all consider a nerf since that vigor only really found its use in PvE and WvW.

I never ran Vigorous renewal most of the time, Always ran soften the fall…Its huge nerf in SPvP though cause you would run it there.

I don’t think anybody cared too much about it in sPvP. But in Dungeons and fractals, that vigor saved lives. WvW…well, it COULD help, but most of the time not, because of ZvZ combat.

RyuDragnier.9476:

I don’t think anybody cared too much about it in sPvP. But in Dungeons and fractals, that vigor saved lives. WvW…well, it COULD help, but most of the time not, because of ZvZ combat.

I think there might be something else wrong with what your team is doing if you need healing spring to get through dungeons because of the vigor.

Leuca.5732:

RyuDragnier.9476:

I don’t think anybody cared too much about it in sPvP. But in Dungeons and fractals, that vigor saved lives. WvW…well, it COULD help, but most of the time not, because of ZvZ combat.

I think there might be something else wrong with what your team is doing if you need healing spring to get through dungeons because of the vigor.

No, the vigor was a bonus. If I set it down, I was rezzing somebody or healing conditions off teammates, and often combined it with a blast finish for that extra heal. But certain classes DO need that vigor more than others…such as necromancers.

I run the vigor trait, and I always combo twice in the field, so this is certainly a nerf to me.

Isn’t pulsing vigor and 2 combos a higher skill cap play than non pulsing vigor and 1 combo?

The only times I actually stayed in my healing spring the whole duration was when I wasn’t at risk to begin with. Quicker condi clear is nice in theory, but I’ve been hacked to death being immobilized standing in a healing spring, so I don’t think it will make much of a difference there. I also didn’t run Vigorous renewal. I guess it sucks for some people, it doesn’t concern me to be honest.

where are you guys getting this information from? not like this change will effect my game play in a major way. Healing spring is still the best #6 skill. I am just curious where are you getting this info from.

pho.9412:

where are you guys getting this information from? not like this change will effect my game play in a major way. Healing spring is still the best #6 skill. I am just curious where are you getting this info from.

It was in some leaked patch notes for a patch that is now a month away…

But besides that point, @everyone else, I guess I just fail to see how it’s a nerf. Now the condi removal stands a better chance of keeping up with the condi application.

Admittedly, it does take away a bit of group utility from the water field aspect of the skill, but in turn, it applies regen and removes condis faster from everybody in the spring; so it’s just a different type of utility really. It is unfortunate that the window for leaping through the spring is smaller. Of course, it’s still manageable to do it twice with 1h sword and martial mastery.

As for the nerf itself, that’s a Vigorous Renewal nerf. It would be different if the trait actually applied a decent duration vigor, like I believe thieves does, but hey, maybe doing that in an AoE would be too strong.

I can definitely, definitely see the cons. But I just consider it more of a change than a nerf. Hopefully it’s the first step towards getting decent condi removal outside of Empathic Bond.

It’s not a nerf in PvE/WvW. The field was of no real value in WvW before outside of stacking on a gate. WvW is far too fluid for it to get much use unless you spend a lot of time restacking. This is why Ele’s are so much more valuable. Their field is 4x bigger and can be used in highly mobile WvW encounters. It’s a buff in WvW because the condition cleanse is quicker now too. You gain more benefit from it in a shorter period of time.

Imo, it looks like it’s more of a targeted nerf in PvP because the field was actually useful there since you could count on all combat being on a point anyway. Now the field isn’t there as long.

The speculated Healing Spring change might up the door to?

Blast Finisher on Maul?

Its not really a nerf, its a bug fix and a buff.

I read it more as a buff, personally. I guess it depends, but 10s is still pleanty long enough to finishing and group healing, and it means you arent quite as tied down with the skill, which is its main weakness.

Cufufalating.8479:

I read it more as a buff, personally. I guess it depends, but 10s is still pleanty long enough to finishing and group healing, and it means you arent quite as tied down with the skill, which is its main weakness.

More front loaded regen application and faster condi removal is also pretty awesome if you as me.

One step closer to not being so reliant on Empathic Bond, anyone?

Atherakhia.4086:

It’s not a nerf in PvE/WvW. The field was of no real value in WvW before outside of stacking on a gate. WvW is far too fluid for it to get much use unless you spend a lot of time restacking. This is why Ele’s are so much more valuable. Their field is 4x bigger and can be used in highly mobile WvW encounters. It’s a buff in WvW because the condition cleanse is quicker now too. You gain more benefit from it in a shorter period of time.

Imo, it looks like it’s more of a targeted nerf in PvP because the field was actually useful there since you could count on all combat being on a point anyway. Now the field isn’t there as long.

Healing spring is only 120 units smaller than healing rain, hardly 4X smaller, and lasts over twice as long. It also casts in half a second, not a second and a half making far more useful in “mobile WvW encounters” where stuns/interrupts are everywhere and when it’s needed right when the commander calls for a water field.

Water fields are invaluable in large scale conflicts, both in open fields and when trying to hold a point. Saying they have no value outside of PVdoor is about the silliest wvw related thing I have read so far.

Substance E.4852:

Atherakhia.4086:

It’s not a nerf in PvE/WvW. The field was of no real value in WvW before outside of stacking on a gate. WvW is far too fluid for it to get much use unless you spend a lot of time restacking. This is why Ele’s are so much more valuable. Their field is 4x bigger and can be used in highly mobile WvW encounters. It’s a buff in WvW because the condition cleanse is quicker now too. You gain more benefit from it in a shorter period of time.

Imo, it looks like it’s more of a targeted nerf in PvP because the field was actually useful there since you could count on all combat being on a point anyway. Now the field isn’t there as long.

Healing spring is only 120 units smaller than healing rain, hardly 4X smaller, and lasts over twice as long. It also casts in half a second, not a second and a half making far more useful in “mobile WvW encounters” where stuns/interrupts are everywhere and when it’s needed right when the commander calls for a water field.

Water fields are invaluable in large scale conflicts, both in open fields and when trying to hold a point. Saying they have no value outside of PVdoor is about the silliest wvw related thing I have read so far.

Sorry, it’s twice the size.

And I’m not saying water fields are invaluable. I’m saying that Healing Spring is overstated in value because it’s not ranged and small.

I’d miss the longer duration, but the faster condition removal probably balances that out. I’d really need to play with it in practice to get a feel.

This is a huge Nerf to pve/wvw’ers on a class that is considered the worst for those game types. How can you people be happy?

Soilder.3607:

This is a huge Nerf to pve/wvw’ers on a class that is considered the worst for those game types. How can you people be happy?

I agree… Go ahead and mess with one of the better abilities we have cause our class is so awesome.

AydenStar.4216:

The speculated Healing Spring change might up the door to?

Blast Finisher on Maul?

GS still doesn’t need a blast finisher. Won’t solve the problems the weapon has.

RyuDragnier.9476:

You forgot something there, let me fix it.

With Vigorous Renewal, you’d get the following.

15s Water Field
1 condition removal every 3s
3s Regen for every 3 second pulse for a total of 18s of regen
5s Vigor for every 3 second pulse for a total of 30s of vigor.

With the new way it works, you’ll get the following with Vigorous Renewal.

10s Water Field
1 condition removal every 2s
3s Regen for every 2 second pulse for a total of 18s of regen
5s Vigor ONLY FOR WHEN YOU FIRST PUT IT DOWN!

This is the thing everybody is having a problem with, which we all consider a nerf since that vigor only really found its use in PvE and WvW.

man i’ve not forgotten anything
i personally think that “vigorous renewal” is a good thing only if we are talking about “how man support can we give?” in a contest in which the greatest boon spam/heal wins… but if we are talking about wvw and pvp and pve we, selfishly, don’t need vigor anymore since we get 50% base endurance regen… it’s enough and the upcoming nerf should be an effort to this consideration.
I’ve never use “vigorous renewal” and i never lacked anything… so i have not really considered.

Soilder.3607:

This is a huge Nerf to pve/wvw’ers on a class that is considered the worst for those game types. How can you people be happy?

you surely aren’t a ranger player… go ranger or go home (norn cit XD)

Vigorous Renewal isn’t Healing Spring. Healing Spring has never provided Vigor at it’s base, so that shouldn’t even be part of a deciding factor when discussing the base functionality of Healing Spring and whether or not it is being nerfed.

So, to end that discussion, yes, Vigorous Renewal got nerfed. Moving on with the Healing Spring discussion:

So now, instead of a 15s water field with a pulse every 3 that removed a condition and granted regeneration, you have 10s water field that grants the same amount of regeneration and removes the same amount of boons, but faster.

That’s a buff for the ranger player. It’s also a buff in how good Healing Spring is on it’s own as a utility skill; having a higher output of AoE regen and condi removal. On top of that, it’s still a 10 second long Water Field.

Looks to me like it’s just a better skill overall.

Xsorus.2507:

I think the Pro’s Cancel out any Cons it gets this patch, so Its about even.

Unless you play PvE, in which case it’s worse. PvE mobs don’t stack conditions like they do in sPvP and if you are running away from mobs while using this skill in PvE you are doing something wrong. In PvE there is rarely a reason to run from mobs, in fact healing spring can easily make parties.

I never need to cleanse conditions faster in PvE. I exclusively run Healing Spring for it’s utility value and it’s primary use is as a long duration pulsing condition removal and for healing finishers. I don’t need spike condition removal in PvE, if I did I would bring a bear or Signet of Reneweal (also remember that you have a party of other people who can contribute to condition removal). A 33% nerf to its duration is going to be huge for fights where parties used it to blast for AoE healing, especially given how stacking is the primary PvE meta, stacking on a 15 second water field that cleansed a single condition (usually enough int PvE) consistently, it’s probably the best ranger skill for puging dungeons atm.

Anyone who thinks extra regeneration the change might provides will result in more healing in PvE is playing in bad parties. An additional five seconds on a water field allows for more blast finishers which are going to give you more healing than a few seconds of regen (which you still get from standing in the field, and if for some reason you spec into boon duration you can get a lot more).

I think people who think the pros cancel out the cons are thinking about their roaming rangers competing in a condition heavy meta. I don’t think these people care about how a dungeon ranger is taking a serious hit to one of it’s most important support tools.

As far as making healing spring a better self heal… if you want a self heal take one of the other two skills that are actually designed self heals. Healing Spring is designed as a party support heal. It’s so much more than just a self heal. When used correctly, healing spring has a lot of depth. This nerf is a knee jerk reaction to the condition heavy meta (I’m guessing the vigour change is because of spirit rangers) and that’s all. It’s not a buff, it’s class balance centred around sPvP issues regardless of the impact on PvE.

To argue vigorous renewal has nothing to do with this is just silly. It’s a core part of the power level of this skill. It’s one of the best combos the ranger has for party support and it has specific functionality with healing spring that completely altered how you played the skill.

My only hope for this change not making it through is the recent preview claimed they wanted to focus on boosting support. Hitting Healing Spring like this is the exact opposite of their stated intentions (unless you sPvP in which case spike condition removal is probably a priority for you).

My issue with the change is that if you’re not using horn, our only blast finisher is on the drake pets with a 30 sec cooldown. Unless you’ve got a clock next to your screen and check the time every time a drake uses tail swipe, it’s for all intents and purposes random when the drake will use the skill.

With healing spring lasting 15 out of 30 sec, you have a 50% chance of getting a pet-induced blast finisher heal out of it.

with healing spring reduced to 10 out of 30 sec, the chance of that happening gets reduced to 33%.

If they gave us a player-controlled blast finisher on another weapon (or two) I wouldn’t have much problem with it. GS’ Maul is the most commonly requested choice, but I think GS is already a pretty well-rounded weapon. But with rangers only having one player-controlled blast finisher, I think they should reduce the cooldown on drake tail swipe to 20 sec to compensate.

Solandri.9640:

My issue with the change is that if you’re not using horn, our only blast finisher is on the drake pets with a 30 sec cooldown. Unless you’ve got a clock next to your screen and check the time every time a drake uses tail swipe, it’s for all intents and purposes random when the drake will use the skill.

With healing spring lasting 15 out of 30 sec, you have a 50% chance of getting a pet-induced blast finisher heal out of it.

with healing spring reduced to 10 out of 30 sec, the chance of that happening gets reduced to 33%.

If they gave us a player-controlled blast finisher on another weapon (or two) I wouldn’t have much problem with it. GS’ Maul is the most commonly requested choice, but I think GS is already a pretty well-rounded weapon. But with rangers only having one player-controlled blast finisher, I think they should reduce the cooldown on drake tail swipe to 20 sec to compensate.

That’s actually a really fair request imo.

Maybe Lightning Reflexes as a blast finisher? I mean, unfortunately, animation and function wise, their aren’t many other weapon skills outside of Maul that make sense as a blast finisher, but because greatsword already has the leap finisher, it probably won’t happen.

Maybe a trait option that turns Canine F2s into Blast Finishers? It would be similar to Call of the Wild, and Canine Howls are on long cooldowns as it is, so it wouldn’t be game-breaking.

u forgot something. healing spring is our only one healing ability. staff ele have 2 water field AND a healing skill. Most of the time its hard to save our heal in wvw while waiting to the right moment to help our dudes. eles have an auto attack heal, can cast anytime a water field and they still have one more field if the commander call it. ohh sorry… dont forget the traited dodge what remove condi in aoe and the healing skill what they still have.
if we could trait on dodge to make a healing spring thats OK, but now its a bad choice for casual dungeon players, because water field cover the good fire field and the team cant blast might to kill the boss faster.

If you run with an organized group in WvW, this is definitely a nerf. A 15 second water field, with perks like traited vigor and the default condition removal and regen, was one of the best things we as Rangers brought to the table. While said perks are nice, what folks are really interested in is the long lasting water field.

15 seconds down to 10 is a huge nerf.

Boreal.9826:

If you run with an organized group in WvW, this is definitely a nerf. A 15 second water field, with perks like traited vigor and the default condition removal and regen, was one of the best things we as Rangers brought to the table. While said perks are nice, what folks are really interested in is the long lasting water field.

15 seconds down to 10 is a huge nerf.

It may be a nerf but it didn’t lose any direct healing potential (not counting finishers). It also, after the nerf, will remain the longest lasting water field in the game. Even after, the ranger will be able to maintain a water field with more uptime than even an ele. Perhaps that’s why it’s being nerfed?

The reduction on Vigorous Renewal is a bit much, though. >.< I’ll have to find an alternative to the trait unless they raise how much vigor it gives. 15 seconds of vigor (what we currently have) on a 30 second timer? Good. 3 seconds of vigor on a 30 second timer? I can find better.