Guild Wars 2

Tragic Positive.9356:

snipping all this out…

Again, clearly you disagree with this thread and you are a strong proponent for druid. The two options here are you can accept that not everyone enjoys druid and want to discuss the fact they dislike it, or you can hijack my thread and defend every aspect of druid until the end of time. Please, move on.

Zenith.7301:

Of course we were robbed relative to others.

What single other elite spec is so one dimensional to the point where its main weapon, the elite mechanic, and most of the traits are tied to a healer role?

Any other elite spec has a variety of compatible playstyles. Druid is JUST a support spec, period. So rangers who rolled the class not wanting to play support got screwed, as EVERYONE got a power spike from elite specs except ranger, who was shoved into being a heal/buffbot.

You’re acting like I can just choose core ranger and be brought to a raid for just DPS. Don’t be dumb about it, core ranger is horrible, never has been a desirable DPS spec.

So in terms of the meta, as a ranger you are a druid and play a support class, or you don’t get brought to endgame PvE at all.

Ranger already saw a lot of hate in dungeons/fractals pre-HOT and now especially with the druid elite spec I think rangers have a much lower rate of securing slots in parties because they chose not to spec druid. It’s a sad state of affairs. “Here rangers, now you will be more valued in parties! But wait, you have to use this trait line you may or may not have an interest in…and if you don’t -your value in parties will actually decrease instead of staying where it is!”

Matt Stacey.7415:

Tragic Positive.9356:

snipping all this out…

Again, clearly you disagree with this thread and you are a strong proponent for druid. The two options here are you can accept that not everyone enjoys druid and want to discuss the fact they dislike it, or you can hijack my thread and defend every aspect of druid until the end of time. Please, move on.

I disagree with your attitude. Not the thread. There’s a difference.
You are saying that druid doesn’t offer something that it actually does.

It’s like saying you can’t play Power builds with Wilderness Survival traitline because it has 2 bloody traits for Condition DPS.

And you can see that there’s more people who are telling that you are wrong. If you don’t enjoy druid – don’t blame it on the illusion of role you are blinded by.
Blame it on the design and user-unfriendly mechanics we are stuck with. Those points make sense.

If you were here since the beginning you’d see how many thread about what’s wrong with druid I created myself. But your reasons are illogical.
Taking my leave now.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Taking my leave now.

Great

Matt Stacey.7415:

…not everyone enjoys druid…

And that will never change. How is a thread discussing this going to help?

I agree with Tragic, your reasons are illogical.

Druid has brought to the table everything Ranger needed. Who cares about Ranger hate anyway? I NEVER see it in-game, its only in some fantasy land where optimal DPS is all that is cared about, namely the forums. Not in the game. Ranger does amazing DPS anyway, plus tons of party support.

I don’t use the trailine in PvE because I don’t need to, core Ranger has everything needed. In WvW I use the Druid because it has the additional support I want, plus amazing mobility with Staff and sustain.

In PvE my build has plus 40% damage for the Ranger, plus 45% for the pet, party wide buffs of 100%+ uptime on Fury, Regen, Vigor, Swiftness and Protection, 11-14 Might, +7.5% Damage, 30 burn ticks every 8s with 27% uptime on Quickness for yourself and the ability to stack 25 might on yourself and your pet for at least 30% of the time too.

I honestly don’t know what more could you want. A Ranger can take care of almost all the buffing required for a party, with some fire fields, the party will be at 25 might (or a revenant), then you just need a guard for Aegis and Retaliation and you are stacked. Everyone else can focus on DPS.

Druid is sooooo good

I was playing lb/staff druid and it was ridiculously strong with crazy healing sustain

yet i see so many ranger/druids QQing asking for more buffs.

should be thankful cuz rangers were total garbage like 1~2 years ago.

Now they are in the good spot. If u still think it needs more buff L2P or just uninstall.

Tragic and Heim accurately described the state of Ranger/Druid at the moment.

Even Core Ranger (without Druid) and shouts can now self might stack to 25 with Bristleback alone, Smokescale alone, or Guard. When were we ever able to do that?

RaO -> smokescale attack target -> a few auto attacks -> WHaO = 25 stacks, you & pet
RaO -> bristle back barrage (f2) -> a few auto attacks -> WHaO = 25 stacks of might
Run headlong into battle with pet -> guard -> WHaO = 25 stacks of might

Spotter, frost spirit, fire spirit, and glyph of kick kitten all give bonuses to party damage on top of the ideal scenario, where everyone in team has perma 25 might and fury. No one else can do this… So if you want to maximize group DPS… You must have a ranger or Druid.

It’s fine to have a thread about how you feel mistreated, but if you say anything other than: “HoT made Ranger a lot stronger than before, and desired in all content, as opposed to before, but I still feel robbed because X,” you are going to get resistance.

Edit: Rereading you original post, yes I still use core, and it is better with HoT, so no I don’t feel robbed at all.

So much for side grades…

I have mixed feelings about Druid, but reading the stuff here – I guess people were expecting/hoping for a spec that would up our own damage without having to play with a bar of entry and forgo all our own damage sources (beside the pet, obv) to play buff/heal bot for others. I mean, I’ve been turned down from a couple of groups before in both fractals and raids because I didn’t want to slot Druid before, since I like playing core Ranger in both power/condi setups (though its not a big deal since I can just make my own squads or w/e – it does happen, though).

Regarding CAF, I can live with the fact that is has a cooldown and build up phase, but generating it is still not comfortable seeing that you have to staff camp to generate it quickly without churning out regen on shouts (which is made more difficult if you’re mid/back-lining) and cannot do so OoC.

Staff itself is really weak when it comes to damage, though it has okay mobility/meh utility. I just wish that it were easier to build AF without needing to slot a weapon to do so reliably. Honestly, if they wanted to up our supportive abilities, that’s fine – maybe make Frost, Storm, and Sun a bit better since they were already good unique buffs we had (hint – better control over Spirits would be nice with the more mobile encounters we’re made to deal with post HoT) – but to make an entire spec that is just strictly support party buffs/heals isn’t something I like a lot.

We’re certainly better off post HoT than before, but I just dislike having to work with the current constraints and playing that particular role in squads. I really hoped for something closer to Scrapper/DH/Tempest where the new options wouldn’t be gated behind something and didn’t involve strictly support, but allowed for some in its own way.

Oh well, it is what it is. Maybe the next ESpec will be more favorable to those who disliked Druid.

Fluffball.8307:

EvilZombie.6801:

staff = pew pew pew v2.0

Can you explain this sentiment? I feel like the “pew pew” meme nonsense is based on people thinking LB is an OP damage weapon , but staff is one of the least damaging weapons in the entire game.

If staff is one of the “least” powerful in the game why am I now finally getting badge in WvW like never before at 2700+power alone and topping 3k in any zerg we run?

Staff just needs to be traited correctly with the rest of your gear and then it’s an AOE/protection monster.

I feel robbed that it’s not the healer it was made out to be and the healing mechanics are awful.

Zenith.7301:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Zenith.7301:

Core range is terrible, so sadly in raids you are forced into the druid healbot role.

Funny thing is a berzerker Tempest can put out similar healing as a berzerker druid and yet the Tempest does SOOOOOOO much more DPS.

Ever heard of Berserker Healer?
Tempest doesn’t beat this role. It’s an illusion because you see more personal DPS rather than 30% party-wide DPS boost. Tempest is just more comfortable. Not more powerful.

You’re just a buffbot, much like a Chronomancer. On an individual level, solo scenario or roaming PvP this makes no difference.

It’s also 15% more damage (3% for 5 stacks), not 30% DPS boost how the hell do you even get that math?

Grace of the land 5 stacks 15% dmg Glyph of empowerment 10% dmg pop CaF heal up exit use glyph of empowerment and boom 25% dmg this is one of the most basic things you can do to boost dmg Im suprised you didnt know about it

forgot Frost spirit which gives about 7,5% dmg so yeah 30% sounds about right

I love the Druid elite spec. To me, it fits the ranger class identity perfectly. The staff offers so much. The Druid tree itself allows us huge flexibility to fit any build type. There could a be some improvements, but that is always the case.

Big ups to the class designers, I think you did a fantastic job.

I agree with Tragic and Heimskarl, whats sad is that the same way Rangers didn’t even know their own DPS potential pre-HoT way too many don’t understand how to play druid post-HoT. If you want to keep playing ranger the same way, play ranger. If you think DH is so much better than ranger, swap to DH.

One of the best things about this game is that it’s made with having alts in mind where other games stressed having a “main” and playing on it as much as possible. I have 9 different characters and rotate among them on a regular basis. 2 of those so far are in full ascended so i can fill different roles in raids/fractals and i’m working on a 3rd.

Why do we need DH? we already have longbow and traps. It would have been highly redundant. Sure, their traps are OP, but still redundant.

The elite specs are right where they need to be. If you want an archer without the ties to nature, play a warrior or a DH. If you didn’t want something so obviously nature themed, why did you play a ranger in the first place?

I would have felt robbed had ranger got DH as a spec xD
kinda hope we never get redundant specs. tempest already feel this way to me
(although i can see why it happen sense Ele already did everything :s)

also /Druid4Life!

Druid is the best thing to have happened to Ranger gameplay and viability vise.

More like forced to use it than robbed by it, but that is problem with most elite specs. They add something on class, instead altering the way it should be played.

Yeah, may be robbed in a way… I remember many rangers here (inc meself) were really disappointed with a new role and stuff after the elite spec announcement. But even if you wanna play a power ranger these day you’re better go druid line instead of, say, WS.

On an old pre-hot power ranger you were most likely to run survival utilities for defensive and disengagement purposes (e.g. Lightning Reflexes and Quickening Zephyr for condi clear stun break super speed disengage), but it’s all better done with a couple of druid traits and CAF now, when you can clear all condis, stunbreak and then (1 sec delay) gain stealth and super speed by double tapping F5.

I actually feel robbed by two minor traits “Live Vicariously” and “Natural Mender”, which are kinda useless in sPvP if you’re not specing into healing or not running staff.

Miles Smiles.8951:

I actually feel robbed by two minor traits “Live Vicariously” and “Natural Mender”, which are kinda useless in sPvP if you’re not specing into healing or not running staff.

Solo play as well. Two minor traits that could have provided some noticeable benefit, are otherwise useless when playing alone.

I have not seen 1 healing focused Druid in wvw or pve or fractals. I bet there are not healing focused Druids in spvp. The only place healing is used is raids because everyone stands still bashing a boss. This is a poor design.

Yep, Ranger got the short end of the stick on this one. While other devs were plotting massive damage output elites and one of them was making guardians the best trappers in the world the ranger dev said “oooooooo, healing”.

Rangers got some good pets – at least they got most of that right.

As for and elite we should have gotten what the Mordrem Snipers do with stealth and their nasty sniper shot. Our traps should have become the bane of all who cross over them.

So suggestions:
1. Immediate +30% damage output on bow(long and short) across all attacks.
2. Traps should actually trap, like dragon hunter and should do more damage than theirs. We are supposed to be the masters of the wild.
3. Stealth detection and targeting ability. We’re supposed to be trackers and hunters. Our pets should aid in this. Especially dogs sense of smell and cats good hearing.
4. Sniper elite shot. Similar to mordrem snipers.
5. DPS increase, period.

I know a lot of this looks and sounds like OP, but after fighting the other classes, we got kittened.

actually what i feel is we need camouflage/stealth toggle on and off (with cooldown but must be standing stand)

it has been requested since from the early days

Heibi.4251:

Yep, Ranger got the short end of the stick on this one.
So suggestions:
1. Immediate +30% damage output on bow(long and short) across all attacks.
2. Traps should actually trap, like dragon hunter and should do more damage than theirs. We are supposed to be the masters of the wild.
3. Stealth detection and targeting ability. We’re supposed to be trackers and hunters. Our pets should aid in this. Especially dogs sense of smell and cats good hearing.
4. Sniper elite shot. Similar to mordrem snipers.
5. DPS increase, period.

I’ll say it again. The theme of our class is an adventurer type that uses the forces of nature to fight his battles. Some sort of sneaky death sniper fits the thief far better than the ranger, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they get LB on the next expansion. I like LB (love it actually), but the elite specs where about expanding the classes into new areas. Druid did that (admittedly some parts of the execution could be improved). This sniper idea that alot of people (not just you) keep talking about would just be doubling down on a weapon we already have, and turning us into thieves tbh.

Swagger.1459:

I have not seen 1 healing focused Druid in wvw or pve or fractals. I bet there are not healing focused Druids in spvp. The only place healing is used is raids because everyone stands still bashing a boss. This is a poor design.

Any druid is going to be able to heal. The thing is, there isn’t a need for a healing ONLY druid. You can bring very strong heals while buffing your party’s damage output big time, and doing alot of damage (power or condi, your choice) at the same time. So why overheal, when you can heal enough and do so much more?

bearshaman.3421:

Heibi.4251:

Yep, Ranger got the short end of the stick on this one.
So suggestions:
1. Immediate +30% damage output on bow(long and short) across all attacks.
2. Traps should actually trap, like dragon hunter and should do more damage than theirs. We are supposed to be the masters of the wild.
3. Stealth detection and targeting ability. We’re supposed to be trackers and hunters. Our pets should aid in this. Especially dogs sense of smell and cats good hearing.
4. Sniper elite shot. Similar to mordrem snipers.
5. DPS increase, period.

I’ll say it again. The theme of our class is an adventurer type that uses the forces of nature to fight his battles. Some sort of sneaky death sniper fits the thief far better than the ranger, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they get LB on the next expansion. I like LB (love it actually), but the elite specs where about expanding the classes into new areas. Druid did that (admittedly some parts of the execution could be improved). This sniper idea that alot of people (not just you) keep talking about would just be doubling down on a weapon we already have, and turning us into thieves tbh.

In your opinion. That’s not how I see it. The mordrem sniper attack and stealth matched what a ranger should have gotten.

Fluffball.8307:

EvilZombie.6801:

staff = pew pew pew v2.0

Can you explain this sentiment? I feel like the “pew pew” meme nonsense is based on people thinking LB is an OP damage weapon , but staff is one of the least damaging weapons in the entire game.

It is the weapon that gets me a lot of kills. It is far far superior than Longbow.

• It tracks players. You can not side step away from staff attack.
• It is instant. The moment you press the button is the moment the player gets damaged.
• Staff 3 is one of the best mobility skill in the game. Combine with GS, enemies can never escape you or chase you.

It is impossible to escape Staff pewpewpew. At least with longbow, I can see the arrow coming and dodge it when I see it near me. I can get out of range because Longbow doesn’t have a mobility skill.

runeblade.7514:

Fluffball.8307:

EvilZombie.6801:

staff = pew pew pew v2.0

Can you explain this sentiment? I feel like the “pew pew” meme nonsense is based on people thinking LB is an OP damage weapon , but staff is one of the least damaging weapons in the entire game.

It is the weapon that gets me a lot of kills. It is far far superior than Longbow.

• It tracks players. You can not side step away from staff attack.
• It is instant. The moment you press the button is the moment the player gets damaged.
• Staff 3 is one of the best mobility skill in the game. Combine with GS, enemies can never escape you or chase you.

It is impossible to escape Staff pewpewpew. At least with longbow, I can see the arrow coming and dodge it when I see it near me. I can get out of range because Longbow doesn’t have a mobility skill.

Staff is indeed a great weapon but its “pew pew” does only sustain/momentum damage. As a solo player you must have a spike damage source to breakyou foe sustain rotations, thats why for meny druid builds, bristleback in the only win condition, until you are able to land a good bristleback F2, the fight will just go on on. LB can give a build another win condition but less good in other aspects like mentioned.

runeblade.7514:

Fluffball.8307:

EvilZombie.6801:

staff = pew pew pew v2.0

Can you explain this sentiment? I feel like the “pew pew” meme nonsense is based on people thinking LB is an OP damage weapon , but staff is one of the least damaging weapons in the entire game.

It is the weapon that gets me a lot of kills. It is far far superior than Longbow.

• It tracks players. You can not side step away from staff attack.
• It is instant. The moment you press the button is the moment the player gets damaged.
• Staff 3 is one of the best mobility skill in the game. Combine with GS, enemies can never escape you or chase you.

It is impossible to escape Staff pewpewpew. At least with longbow, I can see the arrow coming and dodge it when I see it near me. I can get out of range because Longbow doesn’t have a mobility skill.

and staff pew-pew isn’t a projectile…

bearshaman.3421:

Heibi.4251:

Yep, Ranger got the short end of the stick on this one.
So suggestions:
1. Immediate +30% damage output on bow(long and short) across all attacks.
2. Traps should actually trap, like dragon hunter and should do more damage than theirs. We are supposed to be the masters of the wild.
3. Stealth detection and targeting ability. We’re supposed to be trackers and hunters. Our pets should aid in this. Especially dogs sense of smell and cats good hearing.
4. Sniper elite shot. Similar to mordrem snipers.
5. DPS increase, period.

I’ll say it again. The theme of our class is an adventurer type that uses the forces of nature to fight his battles. Some sort of sneaky death sniper fits the thief far better than the ranger, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they get LB on the next expansion. I like LB (love it actually), but the elite specs where about expanding the classes into new areas. Druid did that (admittedly some parts of the execution could be improved). This sniper idea that alot of people (not just you) keep talking about would just be doubling down on a weapon we already have, and turning us into thieves tbh.

If the thief got the kind of sniper/trapper we are hypothetically discussing here that would be the final straw for me – I’d end up abandoning my ranger once and for all.

bearshaman.3421:

Swagger.1459:

I have not seen 1 healing focused Druid in wvw or pve or fractals. I bet there are not healing focused Druids in spvp. The only place healing is used is raids because everyone stands still bashing a boss. This is a poor design.

Any druid is going to be able to heal. The thing is, there isn’t a need for a healing ONLY druid. You can bring very strong heals while buffing your party’s damage output big time, and doing alot of damage (power or condi, your choice) at the same time. So why overheal, when you can heal enough and do so much more?

You mean gated and part time healer using aim reticles for moving targets except for when players are stationary at bosses… There is a competitive side to the game that doesn’t stand still, so that’s where Druid falls apart.

I want to play the Druid healer we were promised at twitchcon that can sustain a zerg in wvw, not the raid boss healer. I want a Druid healer that functions well and fluid in this movement heavy game.

Elementalist is a better healer, but the healing mechanics in gw2 are poor overall.

If you think Druid healing and buffing and damage wrapped up into one is that good, by all means go to wvw and spvp and record your stream so we can see how well it does supporting the team.

http://dulfy.net/2015/09/25/gw2-druid-ranger-elite-specialization-livestream-reveal/

“Bringing heavy healing to GW2, unlike anything you have seen before. Strong support, very powerful in upcoming raids and WvW. Can sustain a zerg train of 20-30 players in WvW.”

Still waiting for that wvw part to come true…

atheria.2837:

Fluffball.8307:

EvilZombie.6801:

staff = pew pew pew v2.0

Can you explain this sentiment? I feel like the “pew pew” meme nonsense is based on people thinking LB is an OP damage weapon , but staff is one of the least damaging weapons in the entire game.

If staff is one of the “least” powerful in the game why am I now finally getting badge in WvW like never before at 2700+power alone and topping 3k in any zerg we run?

Staff just needs to be traited correctly with the rest of your gear and then it’s an AOE/protection monster.

So you call a staff “powerful” because it allows you to leech like a guardian in WvW? lol

runeblade.7514:

Fluffball.8307:

EvilZombie.6801:

staff = pew pew pew v2.0

Can you explain this sentiment? I feel like the “pew pew” meme nonsense is based on people thinking LB is an OP damage weapon , but staff is one of the least damaging weapons in the entire game.

It is the weapon that gets me a lot of kills. It is far far superior than Longbow.

• It tracks players. You can not side step away from staff attack.
• It is instant. The moment you press the button is the moment the player gets damaged.
• Staff 3 is one of the best mobility skill in the game. Combine with GS, enemies can never escape you or chase you.

It is impossible to escape Staff pewpewpew. At least with longbow, I can see the arrow coming and dodge it when I see it near me. I can get out of range because Longbow doesn’t have a mobility skill.

And any of this would be of any value if Staff did good damage.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Druid is not necessity for casual or daily content.

It’s been a spec we’ve been asking for for years and I believe people should realize this already. It makes me nauseous seeing how people keep hating stuff they themselves asked for.

We needed AoE CC, We needed team support, we needed damage modifiers, we needed sustain, we needed reliable pets and they gave them to us with 1 specialization!. (I don’t even know how did they manage this, frankly, seemed impossible to me)
The only thing I want now is get my stuff fixed. I don’t really need more stuff since we already received tools to compete in current meta. Top guilds already use 2 druids for a 10-men raid. Not to mention we are are useful even in PvP and even in current meta.

I feel disgusted by lies and developers’ attitude towards Ranger in general. Not the druid. Druid is all I could dream of.

I think part of the problem is that the pets have nothing to do with the specialistion. Infact the spec has nothing at all to do with the pets. A lot of people are angry because there was an opportunity here for Anet to fix alot ofthe problems people have with ranger, particularly the pet, instead they opted to ignore the pet problems, tack on some extra pets with the jungle, most of which have the same problems as the old pets but two of which are so OP that they are almost mandatory. But these parts aren’t part of druid. They’re part of the core ranger. And they tend to spotlight the short-comings of ANET’s approach to ranger.

Whearas druid doesn’t feel like Anet listening, or even considering the ranger build at all. It feels like they needed a heal build square peg for the raid content, took out their mallet and smashed that square peg into the round-hole of the ranger class. They smashed the two brutally together and used to duct-tape to fix the ranger’s frame, where the horrific collision, cracked and shatted pieces off. Sure, now the peg’s in place the two are a fairly solid combo, but that could be more sheer fortune than design. Who knows what was in the mind of the person with the mallet?

The combination doesn’t look natural. The malleted in lore is contradicted completely by content in HoT, the design and colour scheme of the skills are mismatched so badly that they look like what they are, the skills for another class badly mashed onto a different one.

To Anet’s credit though, some of the core traits such as ancient seeds, actually look like they belong. I think that Anet took the same philosophy to the ranger elite, as the creation of the ranger class. Take a bunch of failed ideas and mash them together.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Druid is not necessity for casual or daily content.

It’s been a spec we’ve been asking for for years and I believe people should realize this already. It makes me nauseous seeing how people keep hating stuff they themselves asked for.

We needed AoE CC, We needed team support, we needed damage modifiers, we needed sustain, we needed reliable pets and they gave them to us with 1 specialization!. (I don’t even know how did they manage this, frankly, seemed impossible to me)

So many lies in one post, please stop.

Levetty.1279:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Druid is not necessity for casual or daily content.

It’s been a spec we’ve been asking for for years and I believe people should realize this already. It makes me nauseous seeing how people keep hating stuff they themselves asked for.

We needed AoE CC, We needed team support, we needed damage modifiers, we needed sustain, we needed reliable pets and they gave them to us with 1 specialization!. (I don’t even know how did they manage this, frankly, seemed impossible to me)

So many lies in one post, please stop.

Ranger players never demanded the druid/healing spec. We wanted the sword animation fixed, pets fixed, ways to permanently stow pets, more dps output, better traps, stealth detection, better stealth(camo), etc…. No one ever was asking for the ranger to be given basically a nearly all healing elite.

Did you notice that the other classes all got combat boosts. Guardians got uber traps that make ours look like mouse traps. Mesmer got massive boosts in the gravity well and alacrity. Elementalists became damage absorbing machines along with damage output. Thief got damage output boost after damage output boost. Warrior got even more a damage output boost. Engineers finally got a lot of lovin’ from ANeT who actually listen for a change. Ranger got – healing. i.e. Ranger got kittened.

Heibi.4251:

Ranger players never demanded the druid/healing spec. We wanted the sword animation fixed, pets fixed, ways to permanently stow pets, more dps output, better traps, stealth detection, better stealth(camo), etc…. No one ever was asking for the ranger to be given basically a nearly all healing elite.

Did you notice that the other classes all got combat boosts. Guardians got uber traps that make ours look like mouse traps. Mesmer got massive boosts in the gravity well and alacrity. Elementalists became damage absorbing machines along with damage output. Thief got damage output boost after damage output boost. Warrior got even more a damage output boost. Engineers finally got a lot of lovin’ from ANeT who actually listen for a change. Ranger got – healing. i.e. Ranger got kittened.

I’ve been here on forums for a very long time. A time that long that I saw at minimum of 3 threads before HoT asking for healing spec. Naturally, a lot of us disagreed with the idea because of the “every man for himself” design that disregards healing.
But a lot of healer fans wanted it. Just because you weren’t one of them doesn’t mean nobody asked for it. And since you don’t know that community asked for the stuff I mentioned while I do only means that I probably know more about what has been going on at forums.

Are you going to deny that people ever wanted Healing Spring to become a trap that is so overbugged and horrible for actual mobile combat like it is, too?

Of course we received the short side of the stick – but it made us viable and people asked for this side of the stick. We got what we asked for.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Heibi.4251:

Ranger players never demanded the druid/healing spec. We wanted the sword animation fixed, pets fixed, ways to permanently stow pets, more dps output, better traps, stealth detection, better stealth(camo), etc…. No one ever was asking for the ranger to be given basically a nearly all healing elite.

Did you notice that the other classes all got combat boosts. Guardians got uber traps that make ours look like mouse traps. Mesmer got massive boosts in the gravity well and alacrity. Elementalists became damage absorbing machines along with damage output. Thief got damage output boost after damage output boost. Warrior got even more a damage output boost. Engineers finally got a lot of lovin’ from ANeT who actually listen for a change. Ranger got – healing. i.e. Ranger got kittened.

I’ve been here on forums for a very long time. A time that long that I saw at minimum of 3 threads before HoT asking for healing spec. Naturally, a lot of us disagreed with the idea because of the “every man for himself” design that disregards healing.
But a lot of healer fans wanted it. Just because you weren’t one of them doesn’t mean nobody asked for it. And since you don’t know that community asked for the stuff I mentioned while I do only means that I probably know more about what has been going on at forums.

Are you going to deny that people ever wanted Healing Spring to become a trap that is so overbugged and horrible for actual mobile combat like it is, too?

Of course we received the short side of the stick – but it made us viable and people asked for this side of the stick. We got what we asked for.

The healer fans were few compared to the Rangers who wanted issues with the class fixed. Plus, as soon as I heard the word Druid I had the feeling they were going to go towards healing. I was hoping for something different as were many many more.

So, as I’ve said, while the other devs were looking at ways to boost combat damage output for the other classes, the Ranger dev kept a narrow view on healing only. Oh, we get a few minor combat utilities, but our lack of DPS was never addressed and our pet system was not improved.

I would have rather had the healing spring continue to be instantaneous. To me, and I’m sure others as well, healing is not a trap. The delay in it going off seriously affected it’s use in WvW for example. People would be past it by the time it was set to go off. Oh, it lasts a while, but it is not as effective as a elementalist’s instant AOE healing. The elementalist is still the better overall healer.

I remember a discussion with fellow WvW folks. When going over what classes could do and who was better at certain things it was always the ranger can do this but this class does it better. Every time it looks like the Ranger is getting a boost that will make them superior in certain ways, ANeT gives other classes something similar.

Druid may have been ANeT’s Raid answer to healing, but it wasn’t really necessary. They could have made Rangers more lethal and more desired as a class, but they chose not to. Imagine if ANeT had made the other classes healing elites. The other classes would have blown a gasket. Engineer becomes Battlefield Medic, Guardian becomes Cleric, Warrior becomes Surgeon, Mesmer becomes Psychologist, Elementalist becomes Celestial Healer, Thief becomes Nurse.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Heibi.4251:

Ranger players never demanded the druid/healing spec. We wanted the sword animation fixed, pets fixed, ways to permanently stow pets, more dps output, better traps, stealth detection, better stealth(camo), etc…. No one ever was asking for the ranger to be given basically a nearly all healing elite.

Did you notice that the other classes all got combat boosts. Guardians got uber traps that make ours look like mouse traps. Mesmer got massive boosts in the gravity well and alacrity. Elementalists became damage absorbing machines along with damage output. Thief got damage output boost after damage output boost. Warrior got even more a damage output boost. Engineers finally got a lot of lovin’ from ANeT who actually listen for a change. Ranger got – healing. i.e. Ranger got kittened.

I’ve been here on forums for a very long time. A time that long that I saw at minimum of 3 threads before HoT asking for healing spec. Naturally, a lot of us disagreed with the idea because of the “every man for himself” design that disregards healing.
But a lot of healer fans wanted it. Just because you weren’t one of them doesn’t mean nobody asked for it. And since you don’t know that community asked for the stuff I mentioned while I do only means that I probably know more about what has been going on at forums.

Are you going to deny that people ever wanted Healing Spring to become a trap that is so overbugged and horrible for actual mobile combat like it is, too?

Of course we received the short side of the stick – but it made us viable and people asked for this side of the stick. We got what we asked for.

3 people asking for a healer spec does not mean every Ranger wanted a healer spec.

Up until the announcement of Druid people who played game still believed Anet wanted rid of healers and weren’t just going to jam a badly designed one into the game to try and sell Raids.

Levetty.1279:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Heibi.4251:

Ranger players never demanded the druid/healing spec. We wanted the sword animation fixed, pets fixed, ways to permanently stow pets, more dps output, better traps, stealth detection, better stealth(camo), etc…. No one ever was asking for the ranger to be given basically a nearly all healing elite.

Did you notice that the other classes all got combat boosts. Guardians got uber traps that make ours look like mouse traps. Mesmer got massive boosts in the gravity well and alacrity. Elementalists became damage absorbing machines along with damage output. Thief got damage output boost after damage output boost. Warrior got even more a damage output boost. Engineers finally got a lot of lovin’ from ANeT who actually listen for a change. Ranger got – healing. i.e. Ranger got kittened.

I’ve been here on forums for a very long time. A time that long that I saw at minimum of 3 threads before HoT asking for healing spec. Naturally, a lot of us disagreed with the idea because of the “every man for himself” design that disregards healing.
But a lot of healer fans wanted it. Just because you weren’t one of them doesn’t mean nobody asked for it. And since you don’t know that community asked for the stuff I mentioned while I do only means that I probably know more about what has been going on at forums.

Are you going to deny that people ever wanted Healing Spring to become a trap that is so overbugged and horrible for actual mobile combat like it is, too?

Of course we received the short side of the stick – but it made us viable and people asked for this side of the stick. We got what we asked for.

3 people asking for a healer spec does not mean every Ranger wanted a healer spec.

Up until the announcement of Druid people who played game still believed Anet wanted rid of healers and weren’t just going to jam a badly designed one into the game to try and sell Raids.

Actually I remember quite clearly after the announcement of Druid that the ranger forums blew up with excitement over the new elite spec. People were going nuts with anticipation about it, both here on the forums and on in-game chats.

Edit: In fact, with the possible exception of Chrono and Daredevil, I don’t think any elite spec was as highly anticipated.

bearshaman.3421:

Levetty.1279:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Heibi.4251:

Ranger players never demanded the druid/healing spec. We wanted the sword animation fixed, pets fixed, ways to permanently stow pets, more dps output, better traps, stealth detection, better stealth(camo), etc…. No one ever was asking for the ranger to be given basically a nearly all healing elite.

Did you notice that the other classes all got combat boosts. Guardians got uber traps that make ours look like mouse traps. Mesmer got massive boosts in the gravity well and alacrity. Elementalists became damage absorbing machines along with damage output. Thief got damage output boost after damage output boost. Warrior got even more a damage output boost. Engineers finally got a lot of lovin’ from ANeT who actually listen for a change. Ranger got – healing. i.e. Ranger got kittened.

I’ve been here on forums for a very long time. A time that long that I saw at minimum of 3 threads before HoT asking for healing spec. Naturally, a lot of us disagreed with the idea because of the “every man for himself” design that disregards healing.
But a lot of healer fans wanted it. Just because you weren’t one of them doesn’t mean nobody asked for it. And since you don’t know that community asked for the stuff I mentioned while I do only means that I probably know more about what has been going on at forums.

Are you going to deny that people ever wanted Healing Spring to become a trap that is so overbugged and horrible for actual mobile combat like it is, too?

Of course we received the short side of the stick – but it made us viable and people asked for this side of the stick. We got what we asked for.

3 people asking for a healer spec does not mean every Ranger wanted a healer spec.

Up until the announcement of Druid people who played game still believed Anet wanted rid of healers and weren’t just going to jam a badly designed one into the game to try and sell Raids.

Actually I remember quite clearly after the announcement of Druid that the ranger forums blew up with excitement over the new elite spec. People were going nuts with anticipation about it, both here on the forums and on in-game chats.

Edit: In fact, with the possible exception of Chrono and Daredevil, I don’t think any elite spec was as highly anticipated.

I was actually there, it was a bunch of non Ranger players coming over getting caught up in announcement hype before going back to thier own better designed classes when the Betas started. Most Rangers were pointing out the problems with the spec straight away.

Levetty.1279:

bearshaman.3421:

Levetty.1279:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Heibi.4251:

Ranger players never demanded the druid/healing spec. We wanted the sword animation fixed, pets fixed, ways to permanently stow pets, more dps output, better traps, stealth detection, better stealth(camo), etc…. No one ever was asking for the ranger to be given basically a nearly all healing elite.

Did you notice that the other classes all got combat boosts. Guardians got uber traps that make ours look like mouse traps. Mesmer got massive boosts in the gravity well and alacrity. Elementalists became damage absorbing machines along with damage output. Thief got damage output boost after damage output boost. Warrior got even more a damage output boost. Engineers finally got a lot of lovin’ from ANeT who actually listen for a change. Ranger got – healing. i.e. Ranger got kittened.

I’ve been here on forums for a very long time. A time that long that I saw at minimum of 3 threads before HoT asking for healing spec. Naturally, a lot of us disagreed with the idea because of the “every man for himself” design that disregards healing.
But a lot of healer fans wanted it. Just because you weren’t one of them doesn’t mean nobody asked for it. And since you don’t know that community asked for the stuff I mentioned while I do only means that I probably know more about what has been going on at forums.

Are you going to deny that people ever wanted Healing Spring to become a trap that is so overbugged and horrible for actual mobile combat like it is, too?

Of course we received the short side of the stick – but it made us viable and people asked for this side of the stick. We got what we asked for.

3 people asking for a healer spec does not mean every Ranger wanted a healer spec.

Up until the announcement of Druid people who played game still believed Anet wanted rid of healers and weren’t just going to jam a badly designed one into the game to try and sell Raids.

Actually I remember quite clearly after the announcement of Druid that the ranger forums blew up with excitement over the new elite spec. People were going nuts with anticipation about it, both here on the forums and on in-game chats.

Edit: In fact, with the possible exception of Chrono and Daredevil, I don’t think any elite spec was as highly anticipated.

I was actually there, it was a bunch of non Ranger players coming over getting caught up in announcement hype before going back to thier own better designed classes when the Betas started. Most Rangers were pointing out the problems with the spec straight away.

I was also there, and there were many who I had seen on the ranger forums for a long time, who have been ranger main players then entire time, very much looking forward to it.

Every class in the game has problems. every elite spec has problems. That didn’t stop people from being excited about it while pointing out the problems. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.

Swagger.1459:

I have not seen 1 healing focused Druid in wvw or pve or fractals. I bet there are not healing focused Druids in spvp. The only place healing is used is raids because everyone stands still bashing a boss. This is a poor design.

I usually run healing druid in 90-100 fractals and its easy as hell because I just out heal the 5 agony + all the dmg ppl take its 1 less person dpsing yes but no one ever dies

Levetty.1279:

3 people asking for a healer spec does not mean every Ranger wanted a healer spec.

Up until the announcement of Druid people who played game still believed Anet wanted rid of healers and weren’t just going to jam a badly designed one into the game to try and sell Raids.

from what I hear ranger s didnt ask for healing they asked for team support and we got both its not perfect I can give you that but we have the capacity to boost the partys overall dps by a pretty large margin Rangers always had dmg and we do even more now thanks to the new pets and with druid we can help others aswell

also I feel that ppl have gotten the wrong idea of things elite spec were never supose to be an UPGRADE but an SIDEGRADE you sacrifice dmg for team support and so on so yeah

Azure.8670:

core ranger is so awful

thats about it

No it’s not —I bet you don’t even have a ranger, just trolling. And if you actually have a ranger-- L2P!!!!!! repeat L2P

Heibi.4251:

Yep, Ranger got the short end of the stick on this one. While other devs were plotting massive damage output elites and one of them was making guardians the best trappers in the world the ranger dev said “oooooooo, healing”.

Rangers got some good pets – at least they got most of that right.

As for and elite we should have gotten what the Mordrem Snipers do with stealth and their nasty sniper shot. Our traps should have become the bane of all who cross over them.

So suggestions:
1. Immediate +30% damage output on bow(long and short) across all attacks.
2. Traps should actually trap, like dragon hunter and should do more damage than theirs. We are supposed to be the masters of the wild.
3. Stealth detection and targeting ability. We’re supposed to be trackers and hunters. Our pets should aid in this. Especially dogs sense of smell and cats good hearing.
4. Sniper elite shot. Similar to mordrem snipers.
5. DPS increase, period.

I know a lot of this looks and sounds like OP, but after fighting the other classes, we got kittened.

question do you play pvp??

Heibi.4251:

Yep, Ranger got the short end of the stick on this one. While other devs were plotting massive damage output elites and one of them was making guardians the best trappers in the world the ranger dev said “oooooooo, healing”.

Rangers got some good pets – at least they got most of that right.

As for and elite we should have gotten what the Mordrem Snipers do with stealth and their nasty sniper shot. Our traps should have become the bane of all who cross over them.

So suggestions:
1. Immediate +30% damage output on bow(long and short) across all attacks.
2. Traps should actually trap, like dragon hunter and should do more damage than theirs. We are supposed to be the masters of the wild.
3. Stealth detection and targeting ability. We’re supposed to be trackers and hunters. Our pets should aid in this. Especially dogs sense of smell and cats good hearing.
4. Sniper elite shot. Similar to mordrem snipers.
5. DPS increase, period.

I know a lot of this looks and sounds like OP, but after fighting the other classes, we got kittened.

Im pretty sure Ranger traps out dmg DH traps only downside is that there are so many condi cleanses in the game

I never felt robbed at all, I leveled my Ranger through tomes from pvp and now it’s my main class because of druid. I absolutely hate pve but used to enjoy raiding in other games, now it’s nice for me to play a class that I enjoy and is wanted in pvp and for raids.

I could see where different plays styles wouldn’t so much like it, but I really feel like it rounds out the class. I’ve never been a fan of all or nothing damage builds, but who knows the next elite spec may be just that. My 2cents

Heibi.4251:

Druid may have been ANeT’s Raid answer to healing, but it wasn’t really necessary. They could have made Rangers more lethal and more desired as a class, but they chose not to. Imagine if ANeT had made the other classes healing elites. The other classes would have blown a gasket. Engineer becomes Battlefield Medic, Guardian becomes Cleric, Warrior becomes Surgeon, Mesmer becomes Psychologist, Elementalist becomes Celestial Healer, Thief becomes Nurse.

In bold, I strongly suspect that this is exactly wher the healing Celestial Avatar came from. It was supposed to belong to either the Elementalist or judging from the colour scheme, mesmer. But given Elementalist’s changing colour scheme from each element, I’m certain it was originally meant for them. Lore-wise it makes far more sense, the skills make far more sense, the appearance makes more sense. I reckon CA was ele’s planned F5 and either the healing was tacked on after it was switched to Ranger because ranger elite spec was messed up or out of time, or Ele CA was abandoned because it was already heal spec and Ele already had water, making it redundant.

When you think about how half-baked tempest is, doesn’t it all make more sense if tempest was built around a celestial attunement, which was stripped out?

Maybe it isn’t that Ranger was robbed, maybe it’s more that Ele was robbed because Druid wasn’t working out. It wouldn’t be the first time Ranger has gotten other classes hand-me-downs cough Most Dangerous Game cough.

bearshaman.3421:

Levetty.1279:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Heibi.4251:

Ranger players never demanded the druid/healing spec. We wanted the sword animation fixed, pets fixed, ways to permanently stow pets, more dps output, better traps, stealth detection, better stealth(camo), etc…. No one ever was asking for the ranger to be given basically a nearly all healing elite.

Did you notice that the other classes all got combat boosts. Guardians got uber traps that make ours look like mouse traps. Mesmer got massive boosts in the gravity well and alacrity. Elementalists became damage absorbing machines along with damage output. Thief got damage output boost after damage output boost. Warrior got even more a damage output boost. Engineers finally got a lot of lovin’ from ANeT who actually listen for a change. Ranger got – healing. i.e. Ranger got kittened.

I’ve been here on forums for a very long time. A time that long that I saw at minimum of 3 threads before HoT asking for healing spec. Naturally, a lot of us disagreed with the idea because of the “every man for himself” design that disregards healing.
But a lot of healer fans wanted it. Just because you weren’t one of them doesn’t mean nobody asked for it. And since you don’t know that community asked for the stuff I mentioned while I do only means that I probably know more about what has been going on at forums.

Are you going to deny that people ever wanted Healing Spring to become a trap that is so overbugged and horrible for actual mobile combat like it is, too?

Of course we received the short side of the stick – but it made us viable and people asked for this side of the stick. We got what we asked for.

3 people asking for a healer spec does not mean every Ranger wanted a healer spec.

Up until the announcement of Druid people who played game still believed Anet wanted rid of healers and weren’t just going to jam a badly designed one into the game to try and sell Raids.

Actually I remember quite clearly after the announcement of Druid that the ranger forums blew up with excitement over the new elite spec. People were going nuts with anticipation about it, both here on the forums and on in-game chats.

Edit: In fact, with the possible exception of Chrono and Daredevil, I don’t think any elite spec was as highly anticipated.

Reaper, dude. Reaper was by far the most exciting announcement. Necro was in such dire need of help and Reaper promised alot. It was a spec for which Anet actually did listen.

As for druid, you’re both right, there was excitment and trepidation. Not least because Anet have utterly failed ranger so many times in the past. The only class, I think, that had a spec which was so divisive had to be Engi/Scrapper. Anet chose to ignore everybody’s pleas, chose to ignore every engineer experience of the last few years and demonstrated a total failure to learn from their mistakes, by presenting Engineer, a class with already lousy Ai’s taking up an entire utility type; another set of utility Ai’s. The forums were on fire with people eager for hammer but begging Anet to reconsider the gyros. They didn’t and the gyros were exactly what the players expected. Badly, designed, badly implemented, buggy and with no sight of fixes. Just like Turrets.

Ranger suffered the same problem. Anet had an opportunity to fix things. They didn’t listen. They just steamrolled ahead, ignoring the problems that have been demonstrated over the last three years.

That’s why many players feel robbed.

wolfyrik.2017:

bearshaman.3421:

Levetty.1279:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Heibi.4251:

Ranger players never demanded the druid/healing spec. We wanted the sword animation fixed, pets fixed, ways to permanently stow pets, more dps output, better traps, stealth detection, better stealth(camo), etc…. No one ever was asking for the ranger to be given basically a nearly all healing elite.

Did you notice that the other classes all got combat boosts. Guardians got uber traps that make ours look like mouse traps. Mesmer got massive boosts in the gravity well and alacrity. Elementalists became damage absorbing machines along with damage output. Thief got damage output boost after damage output boost. Warrior got even more a damage output boost. Engineers finally got a lot of lovin’ from ANeT who actually listen for a change. Ranger got – healing. i.e. Ranger got kittened.

I’ve been here on forums for a very long time. A time that long that I saw at minimum of 3 threads before HoT asking for healing spec. Naturally, a lot of us disagreed with the idea because of the “every man for himself” design that disregards healing.
But a lot of healer fans wanted it. Just because you weren’t one of them doesn’t mean nobody asked for it. And since you don’t know that community asked for the stuff I mentioned while I do only means that I probably know more about what has been going on at forums.

Are you going to deny that people ever wanted Healing Spring to become a trap that is so overbugged and horrible for actual mobile combat like it is, too?

Of course we received the short side of the stick – but it made us viable and people asked for this side of the stick. We got what we asked for.

3 people asking for a healer spec does not mean every Ranger wanted a healer spec.

Up until the announcement of Druid people who played game still believed Anet wanted rid of healers and weren’t just going to jam a badly designed one into the game to try and sell Raids.

Actually I remember quite clearly after the announcement of Druid that the ranger forums blew up with excitement over the new elite spec. People were going nuts with anticipation about it, both here on the forums and on in-game chats.

Edit: In fact, with the possible exception of Chrono and Daredevil, I don’t think any elite spec was as highly anticipated.

Reaper, dude. Reaper was by far the most exciting announcement. Necro was in such dire need of help and Reaper promised alot. It was a spec for which Anet actually did listen.

As for druid, you’re both right, there was excitment and trepidation. Not least because Anet have utterly failed ranger so many times in the past. The only class, I think, that had a spec which was so divisive had to be Engi/Scrapper. Anet chose to ignore everybody’s pleas, chose to ignore every engineer experience of the last few years and demonstrated a total failure to learn from their mistakes, by presenting Engineer, a class with already lousy Ai’s taking up an entire utility type; another set of utility Ai’s. The forums were on fire with people eager for hammer but begging Anet to reconsider the gyros. They didn’t and the gyros were exactly what the players expected. Badly, designed, badly implemented, buggy and with no sight of fixes. Just like Turrets.

Ranger suffered the same problem. Anet had an opportunity to fix things. They didn’t listen. They just steamrolled ahead, ignoring the problems that have been demonstrated over the last three years.

That’s why many players feel robbed.

I agree that there was excitement and trepidation. However, if people thought an elite spec was going to fix an entire class, I would have to say that that was a failed hope from the start. It’s another spec, a line of traits, a weapon, a new set of skills, and in some cases, a new mechanic. What’s missing from that list?

Any fixes to the preexisting structures of the class.

Throwing a supercharger into a old, wornout car isn’t gonna win you the Indy500. The whole thing has to be worked on.