Guild Wars 2

I tend to gravitate towards builds like that. I run dolyak runes on my WvW engi with backpack regenerator. :-O

Since you’ve said you’re not a WvW player you may not be familiar with the regen builds that have been around since release. Ranger mitigates so much damage with weapon skills and protection that multiple sources of regen mean you don’t really have to use heal skills. I still use defender runes in WvW.

As a warrior main you have no room to complain…

Tragic Positive.9356:

Khenzy.9348:

First, they make a difference, they really do. PvP and WvW is all I do, and they definetly make a difference there. Saying the side-heals never make a difference ‘period’ is a blunt and meaningless statement if you don’t specify in what situation are these heals lacking.

Seeing numbers does not equal being useful.
How many times have you saved a person by auto-attacking with a staff?

Because you still don’t understand that you have to heal the same person for 10 seconds to give him 3000 HP back.
In a zerg where 40 different people run one through another making it impossible to focus on healing 1 person this is even less possible.

Are you gonna shout “Stand still for 10 seconds! I’m gonna heal you!”? Well I don’t think so. The healing you are so proud of is useless because in order to be noticeable – a person has to be away from damage for a looooong time. In which he can literally just step out of combat and get back again being healed to full.
And by talking about Zerg, I wonder how noticeable is healing random people for 400 HP in a 30 second interval where people die in 5 seconds if they step their foot in a wrong place.

You said I didn’t specify the situation? I’ll correct myself, then.
The side-heals from staff are useless in every situation and environment. Better now?
I’m sorry, but there hasn’t been a single input about Auto-Attack saving anyone from dying. PvE,PvP or WvW. I know you feel good about seeing lots of green numbers – but they have no real value.

I didn’t praise in any of my posts the AA of the staff as a decent healing source for others, I don’t really know where you’re coming from, in fact, I came to this very thread to undermine the staff, becouse it’s an overrated weapon. All I said was that with the proper setup it can be a decent selfsustain weapon, that’s it. Also, I never claimed the staff to be good in zergs, all the healing that matters in zergs (as far as I know) are blasting waterfields (which it gives you one btw) leaving all other sources of healing besides your nº6 skill, well, pretty overshadowed. It’s a pretty decent weapon for roaming (something you think to deliberately omit) and small group organized squads where you can place a very valuable water field for you and your team mates to blast, again, that’s it.
All your poor argumentation comes out of nowhere, filled with anecdotal evidence fallacies.

I never said the “side-heals of the staff”, I just said the side-heals from staff and from your CA, which again, provide pretty decent healing in spite of what you say. Rangers are awesome ressers, side supporters and point campers in sPvP and the healing is pretty noticeable.

" I know you feel good about seeing lots of green numbers – but they have no real value." That’s just the cherry on top. Thank you.

Jesus, surprinsingly (or maybe not), there are people that actually support you and all the bullkitten you spout out in your druid hate circlejerk just because it’s not the class you imagined it to be. The Druid is a very good spec, sub-spec or whatever, for what it is and for what it does if you compare it to other specs and professions, also, you’re not going to get a straight up direct healing skill on the staff AA. Deal with it.

Khenzy.9348:

Jesus, surprinsingly (or maybe not), there are people that actually support you and all the bullkitten you spout out in your druid hate circlejerk just because it’s not the class you imagined it to be. The Druid is a very good spec, sub-spec or whatever, for what it is and for what it does if you compare it to other specs and professions, also, you’re not going to get a straight up direct healing skill on the staff AA. Deal with it.

I’m constantly starring on forums as a realist.
Which includes the good and the bad. You also never saw me say that I hate druid, neither that druid is not fine. That’s your asumptions.
All I said is that staff side heals (#1 #2 #5) are practically useless because they never make any difference in real life combat. It makes a difference only if the targets healed never reach back to full HP during the fight (once they do, the low healing they took means that the big heals go to overheal).

The whole weapon feels like Astral Bar filler with 1 useful ability (#3) and 1 useful, though overrated ability (#5). What’s wrong with it? The concept, naturally. It’s wrong to pick a weapon for 1 skill in particular.
Do you remember those times when Rapid Fire had 4 seconds cast time? When casting it meant DPS loss (except at close range) but people used it anyway? That’s the very same case with our current staff. You don’t even use #2 apart from huge globs because it’s a DPS and sometimes Heal loss. #5 is just a weak version of reflects because it mostly builds astral force.

I’m not here to deal with anything. I’m here to provide results and numbers. I play what makes sense. If staff is what I need to become competitive, I’ll use it even if it’s design is just as bad as Celestial Avatar Form. But why should I lie and pretend it’s design is good when it’s horrible? Just to make people feel better that it’s viable? Being good/meta/fine/strong has nothing in common with terrible and user-unfriendly design. Those can be co-existent.

I feel that the druid is one of the best designed elite specs in a sense that it truly gives ranger an alternative playstyle that is not necessarily better than core ranger.

Rangers are probably the only class I regularly see running without elite spec in PvE (me included). Other elites are pretty much better in all aspect of the game than the core variants.

As I understand it Anet’s original goal was to provide alternative playstyles that are not better than core variants but just different, I think druid is a success in this sense.

Altho it is just a matter of balancing not design but the other elite specs seem to do too many things and Anet seems reluctant to nerf them.

CAF is wonky. It needs help, and like yesterday.

The one thing that helps Druid(s) out is the over powered Sigils and Runes that HoT provide. If it wasn’t for those I’d wager we would be in a worse place right now. Those tend to help tweak the class a little more.

I’m not sure if I agree with the “we asked for this” and thus the Druid was born. Someone said it on page one and I tend to agree. Why Ranger/Druid and Guardian/Dragon Hunter. Guardian upon launch was the supporting role. I mean heavy armor means you are right there in the thick of things.

Then there is the fact that the Druid only had one beta weekend more or less open to the public compared to the other classes. This in its own right brought on many of the quick fixes and nerfs we received. Fun, fun, and more fun.

So then there is this huge effort of homogeneous skills among classes. I mean yes, we trait and play the way we want. But where does that line end or better yet start to blur? Who really should be the primary supporting character? Is that the Druid? Is it the Guardian? What about my little Asura buddy who is a Elementalist? Back to Abbot and Costello – who’s on first.

Not to be out done, we now have a healer role, due to raids, yet still no primary meta of play (e.g. tank, healer, and dps). Yes, the waters are muddy.

Just my opinion.

Edit: To answer the OP though: Do I feel cheated by the Druid? No, not at all. I do, however, feel cheated by HoT. I’ve actually played less since HoT. Something about it isn’t fun. The whole master level, PvE requirement for things, and forced time play did it in. Not the Druid.

Crapgame.6519:

I’m not sure if I agree with the “we asked for this” and thus the Druid was born.

For years the overwhelming majority of complaints about rangers were that we had little group support in competitive modes. After spirits were killed, that’s a main reason why you never saw rangers in PvP. Now we have some really amazing support, especially with S&R. I don’t think druid gets enough credit for answering the complaints.

Fluffball.8307:

Crapgame.6519:

I’m not sure if I agree with the “we asked for this” and thus the Druid was born.

For years the overwhelming majority of complaints about rangers were that we had little group support in competitive modes. After spirits were killed, that’s a main reason why you never saw rangers in PvP. Now we have some really amazing support, especially with S&R. I don’t think druid gets enough credit for answering the complaints.

When people wanted group support, I can guarantee you that “lol you’re the healer now” isn’t what they were talking about.

That was some straight-up monkey’s paw kitten.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

When people wanted group support, I can guarantee you that “lol you’re the healer now” isn’t what they were talking about.

That was some straight-up monkey’s paw kitten.

In PvE, maybe not. In PvE, ya it was. Druid is kind of equivalent to the old d/d ele in that it can 1v1 indefinitely and is really good at small scale fights… group condi removal, group heals, AoE protection, protective CC, and so on. The old core ranger could do basically nothing for allies in PvP.

I mean just compare it, would you rather PvP 2v2 with a core ranger or a druid? It’s not even a debate. It’s like 0% ranger, 100% druid.

Cele Any engi, shoutbow war, cele ele, spirit ranger, 4 of the top 10 PvP builds of all time* were all group heal supporters.

*Edit: Adusting for relative power of course. I mean a current day trap dragon hunter could probably 1v5 a team of the time of spirit rangers, and DH isn’t a good PvP profession.

Fluffball.8307:

1v1 indefinitely and is really good at small scale fights…

Kidding right? Scrapper, revenant, and elementalist are much better at the 1v1 situation.

Fluffball.8307:

group condi removal, group heals, AoE protection, protective CC, and so on. The old core ranger could do basically nothing for allies in PvP.

Group condi removal? You mean shouts + rune of soldier? You know that is bugged right? You don’t remove condis from allies, just you and pet… Or maybe you mean Signet of Renewal which has nothing to do with druid in the first place… Maybe you mean our seeds of life? Hey buddy, stand still for 3 seconds so I can remove a couple of your condis real quick… Oh did I mention Rune of the Soldier has a delay? It’s about .5~1s before the shout clears the condi after the shout is cast, so good luck clearing that condi before it gets another free tick on you.

The aoe protection? You mean our single utility? Yea, huge help there…

Fluffball.8307:

I mean just compare it, would you rather PvP 2v2 with a core ranger or a druid? It’s not even a debate. It’s like 0% ranger, 100% druid.

This would completely depend on the situation. I have played quite a few pvp games as core, non druid, condi survival/shout hybrid and done decently well in pvp. In a game type where it was death match 2v2? I sure as hell would take a core ranger if it wasn’t a stupid player. In current gamestate? Maybe, it would all depend on enemy team comp, but this also applies to any class/build so that is a moot point.

Fluffball.8307:

Crapgame.6519:

I’m not sure if I agree with the “we asked for this” and thus the Druid was born.

For years the overwhelming majority of complaints about rangers were that we had little group support in competitive modes. After spirits were killed, that’s a main reason why you never saw rangers in PvP. Now we have some really amazing support, especially with S&R. I don’t think druid gets enough credit for answering the complaints.

I for one never once asked for any buff to support other players, plenty of other classes already did this extremely well. What the MAJORITY of rangers asked for was better damage application, class mechanic improvements, and QoL changes. Just because you can find a handful of posts about people wanting rangers to be healbot damage multiplier types doesn’t mean that was the majority.

Allison The Strange.4519:

Kidding right? Scrapper, revenant, and elementalist are much better at the 1v1 situation.

I don’t feel like arguing your points, since we both have our opinions, but this one in particular… I very much favor my odds on druid against those professions. Especially ele since there is no way in hell it’s going to kill me. Scrapper and ele will take a looooong time, but druid should win those 2. Eles don’t even take a stun breaker often times… ya gg against a CC monster like druid.

Rev, condi revs will wreck a druid, but that’s 1 build. Revs of any variety get wrecked by necros, and so on and son on. Condi revs are also rare since the resistance change.

Fluffball.8307:

Allison The Strange.4519:

Kidding right? Scrapper, revenant, and elementalist are much better at the 1v1 situation.

I don’t feel like arguing your points, since we both have our opinions, but this one in particular… I very much favor my odds on druid against those professions. Especially ele since there is no way in hell it’s going to kill me. Scrapper and ele will take a looooong time, but druid should win those 2. Eles don’t even take a stun breaker often times… ya gg against a CC monster like druid.

Rev, condi revs will wreck a druid, but that’s 1 build. Revs of any variety get wrecked by necros, and so on and son on. Condi revs are also rare since the resistance change.

More than half my opinions are actually facts but okay (especially those pertaining to the aoe prot and condi removal).

The 1v1 vs ele would likely never end, 99% of ele’s run clerics and GL every winning the fight. If your running zerk you will not kill them, and they will eventually wear you down and force you off point. You call Druid a CC monster but I have ZERO clue to what CC your refering to. You mean our #5 gs? Maybe our #4 lb? Maybe the glyphs? Or maybe that staff trait that is NEVER taken in PvP? CA #3, yea its decent but meh, CA is bad…

Well lets get down to it, most rangers take GS or LB, not both so that is 1 stun. Most take zero glyphs but some still take tides, so that is 2, but still usually 1 because shouts are usually better. The staff trait is such a joke compared to clarity so yea… 2 stuns usually, sometimes 3 if you take double glyphs. Then ofc the Jesus beam CA #3, which has amazing daze duration, lacks any follow up outside of CA #5 or leaving CA altogether.

So uhhhh… CC monster huh? Even warrior has better CC than this w/o going out of its way for it…

As for the scrapper it has amazing access to stability (compared to our single signet and elite), huge amount of might, prot, retal, etc. We have access to uhhh, swiftness, regen, more swiftness and regen, and some protection (about 50% ish uptime, more if WHaO). Not to mention the scrapper also has just as much evade, just as much healing capability, just as much CC, stealth capability, and better damage application.

Sure we have some decent access to might (smokescale and RaO w/ WhaO) but we don’t compare to Rev or scrapper on this front.

As for the rev fight, that is a toss up imo, 50/50 shot at the 1v1. It’s all about who lands their damage better, but in a 2v2 situation, the rev is almost always better.

Allison The Strange.4519:

More than half my opinions are actually facts but okay

You stated some facts, but you’ve stated them in a biased way, brushing off the counterpoint facts as effectively not existing. So you can see why I don’t really feel like discussing what you’ve said. We just have different views and apparently experiences.

I’m playing a wait and see game at this point. I suspect that there will be other elite specs (all of which will only go in the 3rd spec spot to keep them exclusive) and I want to see what else they come up with. I love druid (can it be improved, yes, but everything is like that), and I’m curious to see what else they come up with.

bearshaman.3421:

I’m playing a wait and see game at this point. I suspect that there will be other elite specs (all of which will only go in the 3rd spec spot to keep them exclusive) and I want to see what else they come up with. I love druid (can it be improved, yes, but everything is like that), and I’m curious to see what else they come up with.

Yup, this would be my attitude as well.
But one thing I know for sure. I’m not buying any expansion until they actually do something right for once.

I can’t be the only one still wondering how the hell did we get powers to control cosmos, stars, black holes and what not. Weren’t we rangers before? Whole Ranger fiasco feels like they do not know and still think they know better.

Allison The Strange.4519:

Fluffball.8307:

Allison The Strange.4519:

Kidding right? Scrapper, revenant, and elementalist are much better at the 1v1 situation.

I don’t feel like arguing your points, since we both have our opinions, but this one in particular… I very much favor my odds on druid against those professions. Especially ele since there is no way in hell it’s going to kill me. Scrapper and ele will take a looooong time, but druid should win those 2. Eles don’t even take a stun breaker often times… ya gg against a CC monster like druid.

Rev, condi revs will wreck a druid, but that’s 1 build. Revs of any variety get wrecked by necros, and so on and son on. Condi revs are also rare since the resistance change.

More than half my opinions are actually facts but okay (especially those pertaining to the aoe prot and condi removal).

The 1v1 vs ele would likely never end, 99% of ele’s run clerics and GL every winning the fight. If your running zerk you will not kill them, and they will eventually wear you down and force you off point. You call Druid a CC monster but I have ZERO clue to what CC your refering to. You mean our #5 gs? Maybe our #4 lb? Maybe the glyphs? Or maybe that staff trait that is NEVER taken in PvP? CA #3, yea its decent but meh, CA is bad…

Well lets get down to it, most rangers take GS or LB, not both so that is 1 stun. Most take zero glyphs but some still take tides, so that is 2, but still usually 1 because shouts are usually better. The staff trait is such a joke compared to clarity so yea… 2 stuns usually, sometimes 3 if you take double glyphs. Then ofc the Jesus beam CA #3, which has amazing daze duration, lacks any follow up outside of CA #5 or leaving CA altogether.

So uhhhh… CC monster huh? Even warrior has better CC than this w/o going out of its way for it…

As for the scrapper it has amazing access to stability (compared to our single signet and elite), huge amount of might, prot, retal, etc. We have access to uhhh, swiftness, regen, more swiftness and regen, and some protection (about 50% ish uptime, more if WHaO). Not to mention the scrapper also has just as much evade, just as much healing capability, just as much CC, stealth capability, and better damage application.

Sure we have some decent access to might (smokescale and RaO w/ WhaO) but we don’t compare to Rev or scrapper on this front.

As for the rev fight, that is a toss up imo, 50/50 shot at the 1v1. It’s all about who lands their damage better, but in a 2v2 situation, the rev is almost always better.

…I can tell you don’t pvp at a high level of play. Ranger has an amazing cc chain combo if you count dodges/stun breaks. For example…I tend to chain in the following way after counting. Prep protect me, taunt procs on target, hit with longbow auto, procs ancient seeds, go in cele state 3, daze, cele state 5 channel while swapping to bristleback’s f2 next to target, taunt procs from BM and BB burst starts, dodge roll into player to go behind them, longbow knockback halfway through bb’s burst, ancient seeds procs again, rapid fire. By this time, CA is refilled usually and you can do another CA combo. That’s honestly a lethal CC chain that I’ve done a lot on my opponents who often times says, “WTF is that stun combo? Couldn’t do anything”. Hence Fluffball’s statement on druid being a “cc” monster. And no, CA doesn’t suck. You obviously don’t know how to use it offensively.

A cleric ele should never force even a zerk druid off point. They hit like a wet noodle.

If you want to question my credibility, I’m more than glad to 1 v 1 you if you’re on NA servers.

Tragic Positive.9356:

bearshaman.3421:

I’m playing a wait and see game at this point. I suspect that there will be other elite specs (all of which will only go in the 3rd spec spot to keep them exclusive) and I want to see what else they come up with. I love druid (can it be improved, yes, but everything is like that), and I’m curious to see what else they come up with.

Yup, this would be my attitude as well.
But one thing I know for sure. I’m not buying any expansion until they actually do something right for once.

I can’t be the only one still wondering how the hell did we get powers to control cosmos, stars, black holes and what not. Weren’t we rangers before? Whole Ranger fiasco feels like they do not know and still think they know better.

I am also playing the waiting game currently, when it comes to my ranger. As much as I want to play it more, I find it hard to because I’m not exactly motivated to do so. I truly hope I don’t have to wait years for the next elite specs – a different elite spec could definitely bring me back to my ranger. As someone who works full time, I truly don’t mind paying more another expansion if it means elite specs I’d enjoy and more content to play. Of course, I pray that the next time around the ranger elite is the first spec to be released, instead of the last. In the meantime, I’m enjoying my condi reaper in HoT content, so that will hold me over until the next expansion. Until then, good on you for all you rangers here, I wish I had the motivation to keep playing my own

Lettuce.2945:

…I can tell you don’t pvp at a high level of play. Ranger has an amazing cc chain combo if you count dodges/stun breaks. For example…I tend to chain in the following way after counting. Prep protect me, taunt procs on target, hit with longbow auto, procs ancient seeds, go in cele state 3, daze, cele state 5 channel while swapping to bristleback’s f2 next to target, taunt procs from BM and BB burst starts, dodge roll into player to go behind them, longbow knockback halfway through bb’s burst, ancient seeds procs again, rapid fire. By this time, CA is refilled usually and you can do another CA combo. That’s honestly a lethal CC chain that I’ve done a lot on my opponents who often times says, “WTF is that stun combo? Couldn’t do anything”. Hence Fluffball’s statement on druid being a “cc” monster. And no, CA doesn’t suck. You obviously don’t know how to use it offensively.

That’s a great combo, and there are a million other varieties that druids can pull off. We’ve always been the undisputed immob masters, and now we are the hard CC masters as well, to make up for no burst damage.

I recently switched back to BW instead of quickness because I found myself doing more damage with CC than with “damage”. I also use wolf. So it just utterly overwhelm’s people’s character control; even if you don’t do daredevil-level damage… eventually… they go down.

Khenzy.9348:

atheria.2837:

runeblade.7514:

Fluffball.8307:

EvilZombie.6801:

staff = pew pew pew v2.0

Can you explain this sentiment? I feel like the “pew pew” meme nonsense is based on people thinking LB is an OP damage weapon , but staff is one of the least damaging weapons in the entire game.

It is the weapon that gets me a lot of kills. It is far far superior than Longbow.

• It tracks players. You can not side step away from staff attack.
• It is instant. The moment you press the button is the moment the player gets damaged.
• Staff 3 is one of the best mobility skill in the game. Combine with GS, enemies can never escape you or chase you.

It is impossible to escape Staff pewpewpew. At least with longbow, I can see the arrow coming and dodge it when I see it near me. I can get out of range because Longbow doesn’t have a mobility skill.

I win more fight with staff than I ever did with Longbow or any other weapon.

Now, if I can just figure out how to survive when I switch to any other weapon – but it isn’t happening.

Funny thing is while playing WvW as of late, running an 80% or so zerker Druid (while solo roaming) wiht Longbow+Greatsword, my longbow proved 10 times more affective at killing people, I pulled 2v1s and 3v1s much more often than with the staff and I could disengage just as well if not better.
Point Blank Shot+Ancient Seeds proved to be stupidly strong, you also have like twice the pressure and burst, while with a staff, your enemy actually has to engage in a long drowned out fight of attrition becouse you don’t have any burst whatsoever, if you fight an even slightly tanky foe, you’re not going to kill it in a reasonable amount of time, if at all. The staff’s mobility is great, but stealth just proved to me again that it’s the strongest disengage tool in the game, by far. And with Hunter’s Shot and Celestial shadow, you have tons of it.
With Point Blank Shot+Ancient Seeds you can even land a full Barrage on someone, so not even that skill is wasted in 1v1s.
The Staff also has two wasted skills (which the Longbow doesn’t): Astral Wisp, which is not worth casting, like, ever; and Vine Surge, with its long cast time which makes it a stupidly unreliable skill.

I say this as someone who tested countless hours (in PvP and WvW) all the different combos. In WvW, Longbow+Greatsword zerker Druid with Defender Runes was by far the most effective combo while roaming that I could find.

Wow, I didn’t think anyone could misunderstand staff, but you sure have.

Staff is the best thing that ever happened to “Ranger” as are the glyphs and new pets.

Now if we can get Anet to believe that pets can and do grow up, maybe we’d have a chance against DH’s and Reapers.

Matt Stacey.7415:

Tragic Positive.9356:

bearshaman.3421:

I’m playing a wait and see game at this point. I suspect that there will be other elite specs (all of which will only go in the 3rd spec spot to keep them exclusive) and I want to see what else they come up with. I love druid (can it be improved, yes, but everything is like that), and I’m curious to see what else they come up with.

Yup, this would be my attitude as well.
But one thing I know for sure. I’m not buying any expansion until they actually do something right for once.

I can’t be the only one still wondering how the hell did we get powers to control cosmos, stars, black holes and what not. Weren’t we rangers before? Whole Ranger fiasco feels like they do not know and still think they know better.

I am also playing the waiting game currently, when it comes to my ranger. As much as I want to play it more, I find it hard to because I’m not exactly motivated to do so. I truly hope I don’t have to wait years for the next elite specs – a different elite spec could definitely bring me back to my ranger. As someone who works full time, I truly don’t mind paying more another expansion if it means elite specs I’d enjoy and more content to play. Of course, I pray that the next time around the ranger elite is the first spec to be released, instead of the last. In the meantime, I’m enjoying my condi reaper in HoT content, so that will hold me over until the next expansion. Until then, good on you for all you rangers here, I wish I had the motivation to keep playing my own

Tbh, i think alot of my enjoyment of the class comes from the fact that I don’t play pvp, so I feel less of a need to compare it to everyone else. Necros throw out tons of condis? Great, that will be awesome when we’re fighting Vinewrath/Jormag/etc! I just have a co-op perspective on these things instead of a competitive one, so I am not as upset about alot of this stuff.

The only time i think it will impact me is if I’m doing fractals and I get dropped because i’m playing a class that the others in my party don’t like for whatever reason. While I know that has happened to others, it hasn’t happened to me yet regardless of what profession I’m playing, and here’s hoping it stays that way.