Guild Wars 2

I’ve been seriously considering making one, but I want to know how does it compare to the other medium professions, I have a Thief but I’m not enjoying it now outside of PvP and it’s really useless in fractals/raids (I don’t know if they fixed Mai Trin cheese with stealth though) because my Elementalist/Revenant does the job better while giving support.

PvE: Meta (for group DPS; inferior at personal performance)
PvP: Viable for solo Q (yet inferior)

Ranger in a nutshell.

Amineo.8951:

I’ve been seriously considering making one, but I want to know how does it compare to the other medium professions, I have a Thief but I’m not enjoying it now outside of PvP and it’s really useless in fractals/raids (I don’t know if they fixed Mai Trin cheese with stealth though) because my Elementalist/Revenant does the job better while giving support.

Can’t stealth during Mai Trin, cannon phase now reveals people.

Thief has more DPS than revenant and similar DPS to ele.

Problem is high scale fractals killed elementalists along any other power build because they scaled up toughness up to fractal 50. Basically, your power damage is almost halved now at high scale while conditions are untouched.

That means in fractals, condition builds are significantly faster to clear with. Necromancers are supreme.

In raids, ironically raid bosses have much less armor than high fractal mobs, so strong power builds like ele shine there.

Rangers are NOT a DPS class. They’re the lowest DPS class after mesmer (absolute bottom).

Rangers and mesmers are WoW vanilla style shamans/paladins, they’re bought as buffbots.

One thing on this note that I am curious about; what makes Druid so popular for PvP, and staff in particular? Is it glyph condi clear, CC abilities, something like that? Or is celestial avatar useful in some way (it really doesn’t seem to mesh on a zerker build to the point I actually forget to use it – but I haven’t done PvP in a while)?
Staff is great for a healbot but I assume that’s not what’s going on in PvP, but it still sounds like it’s popular (or at least used to be). I assume you don’t actually auto-attack with it.

Sirius.4510:

One thing on this note that I am curious about; what makes Druid so popular for PvP, and staff in particular? Is it glyph condi clear, CC abilities, something like that? Or is celestial avatar useful in some way (it really doesn’t seem to mesh on a zerker build to the point I actually forget to use it – but I haven’t done PvP in a while)?
Staff is great for a healbot but I assume that’s not what’s going on in PvP, but it still sounds like it’s popular (or at least used to be). I assume you don’t actually auto-attack with it.

Staff has some uses, first because of the heal it provides it loads up your celestial avatar. Your celestial avatar is your main source of condition removal via the Druidic Clarity trait.
Second staff has Ancestral Grace what will give you movement, this is very important for PvP.
Also staff has Vine Surge which is a immobilize and a condi clance for allies.

Staff is mostly used for PvP because it fills Astral Bar, provides very solid mobility and okay sustain, and doesn’t suffer from reflects like our other Ranged Weapons, plus it pierces by default.

So it is technically our best untraited ranged weapon by far.

In my opinion Ranger is bad as always.

Nothing has changed. We are not desired in pvp.
We are not desired in pve

Darkness.9732:

In my opinion Ranger is bad as always.

Nothing has changed. We are not desired in pvp.
We are not desired in pve

Bolded part is incorrect.

Druids are one of the best pve classes in raids; the only content where your build/class matters significantly. 1 druid is as necessary as any 1 class. A second druid is frequently preferred. Druids also have 3 viable major builds with minor variations.

Druids are bad in pvp, but not terrible. When compared to similar roles that other classes fill, druids are inferior in the most important ways, but superior in others. Overall, you’ll mainly be a crappier but more mobile ele; but the meta is such that the inferiority of the druid in a teamfight is a glaring weakness whereas the slightly better mobility doesn’t help a ton. It’s probably just above the guardian in terms of viability. I’d rather have any of the other classes.

Druid is totally viable at all levels of PvP, from SoloQ to Pro League. Even if the class isn’t as mandatory as some others, i wouln’t call it “bad”.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Druid is totally viable at all levels of PvP, from SoloQ to Pro League. Even if the class isn’t as mandatory as some others, i wouln’t call it “bad”.

I wouldn’t rush it that much to call the Druid viable for Pro League.
I don’t recall any druid popularity in there but anyone could see openings if a druid was taken into a game.

If a druid was taken into a team, it was one of the easiest things to counter and play against. If a druid performed well – I can guarantee that the very same player would have brought the very same or much better results to the table with another class, especially elementalist.

Rangers are viable but inferior … Which makes it “bad” for pro league.

Pro league winner team was using druid. I doubt they went to the finals with something they would consider an “inferior” comp …

Role wise i would compare it more with scrapper than ele. Unlike ele, druid is not a pure bunker/support spec, it more a bruiser type. Teams are usually using druid OR scrapper but druid AND ele. Of course it might lookt different without the class stacking rule, but for now, druid is definitely a viable choice even for pro teams.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Pro league winner team was using druid. I doubt they went to the finals with something they would consider an “inferior” comp …

Role wise i would compare it more with scrapper than ele. Unlike ele, druid is not a pure bunker/support spec, it more a bruiser type. Teams are usually using druid OR scrapper but druid AND ele. Of course it might lookt different without the class stacking rule, but for now, druid is definitely a viable choice even for pro teams.

So…
… We were inferior mathematically and in performance for almost 4 years, constantly eating nothing but plain nerfs affecting all our builds…
… And now we became pro league choice?

How did this happen, if may I ask? I cannot find any other answer than it was the only bruiser-like class to compete. Technically the way it has always been. Players being able to outperform enemies by 3 times of awareness and predictions are able to compete with other classes even as Rangers (druids).

Because any way you look at it – There hasn’t been anything improved on ranger for PvP since release. And Rangers being inferior was more of a matter of fact before. I can’t see how could it have changed.
(Please, keep in mind I haven’t appeared in-game for some time but am still interested in what’s going on and somehow cannot grasp the situation. What did I miss?)

What happened? HoT happened, druid happened, smokescale and bristleback happened (Aside from multiple buffs that happend over the course of the years – there were not only nerfs). Ranger has been part of the PvP meta since HoT release. Not completely dominating or being absolutely mandatory, but definitely meta. Druid made ranger usefull in teamfights, where they were useless before – which was imo the biggest issue for ranger in competitive PvP – while maintaining 1vs1/skirmishing capabilities.

If you want to know, why exactly some pro teams take druid – i can’t answer, because i’m not part of those teams. I just know, they take druid (and they won’t without reasons) and they did so for quite a while already.

Pro league doesn’t allow class stacking, so you can have superior and inferior classes and the inferior ones will still see play as long as the number of superior classes is smaller than five.
Druid is probably somewhere in the middle of the inferior classes, which don’t differ all that much from each other in terms of power level, so they are all “viable” (except dragon hunter, who is at the bottom)

@Tragic;

So essentially, what happened was that ANet made the right, as in not correct, but precise defensive shaves without touching offensive output so that Tempest isn’t enough as a solo support to carry a team.

Engis got nerfed down to the point where they have to go glass (not paladins) to actually have more impact on a meaningful scale than Druid, and when competing for the same team composition role, teams worth their theorycrafting salt realized that its worth losing the engis damage in order to get the druids support, because essentially, perfect play from the Druid and Tempest means the game gets decided by the better damage dealers and more map aware players.

Long story short, meta builds can’t kill druid 1v1 on an equal skill tier, and Druid offers more to a team than running anything else that would compete for that team slot.

Thanks everyone for explanations.

It makes a bit of sense. I still think that Druids are one of the most vulnerable to focus fire which makes them a very debatable pick for games where stacking is allowed …
…
But I think you guyz have a point. In the end, it seems like none of us was wrong.

Tragic Positive.9356:

It makes a bit of sense. I still think that Druids are one of the most vulnerable to focus fire which makes them a very debatable pick for games where stacking is allowed …

This is why I think ranger is a very well balanced profession, and definitely a good pick in many situations in pvp. If the enemy team has a thief or a warrior, who can CC to to death rapidly if you don’t have CA or SoS ready, then ranger is a debatable pick. If they don’t (and most pro league teams don’t play thief at the moment), then druid is the best pick as a side node defender: the strongest in 1v1 along with scrapper, but with better mobility and team support.

Eh, Druid is very powerful and balanced in PvP right now. It plays the role of a bunkerish bruiser and is a master 1v1 class. Excels at both point blank skirmishing and ranged play (with staff). Has great mobility, high burst, high defense, good crowd control, and has the ability to escape combat.

Has never been on a more equal footing with other classes.

As far as PvE is concerned… You can’t really get max group damage without one. There is no substitute for Spotter, GotL, and GoEmp. The other four classes should be able to max out party might, fury, and vulnerability. Once this is done, the only way to get more DPS is to have a Druid. Druid also helps keep everyone perma 90%+ in health to maximize damage output from Scholar runes.

Archon.6480:

Eh, Druid is very powerful and balanced in PvP right now. It plays the role of a bunkerish bruiser and is a master 1v1 class. Excels at both point blank skirmishing and ranged play (with staff). Has great mobility, high burst, high defense, good crowd control, and has the ability to escape combat.

Has never been on a more equal footing with other classes.

As far as PvE is concerned… You can’t really get max group damage without one. There is no substitute for Spotter, GotL, and GoEmp. The other four classes should be able to max out party might, fury, and vulnerability. Once this is done, the only way to get more DPS is to have a Druid. Druid also helps keep everyone perma 90%+ in health to maximize damage output from Scholar runes.

Stopped playing tempest for druid, paid the game to play as solo player duellist with good teamfight potential. not some glorified healbot class good for family play

-I like to roam
-I like to duel
-I like to teamfight
-I like not being forced into a particular stat like ele : vit-toughness and healing power; I can build my druid however the hell I want and still be effective
-I don’t care tanking people “forever” and doing 0 dmg in the process
-I don’t care to die when doubled teamed
-I like to have several build options
-I don’t care about raids, pve
-I like to know that I can deal with any class in a 1vs1 scenario

…I like druid…

Archon.6480:

Eh, Druid is very powerful and balanced in PvP right now. It plays the role of a bunkerish bruiser and is a master 1v1 class. Excels at both point blank skirmishing and ranged play (with staff). Has great mobility, high burst, high defense, good crowd control, and has the ability to escape combat.

Has never been on a more equal footing with other classes.

How do you 1v1 vaulting thieves or condi thieves who constantly reset fights?

What about condi mesmers? You can’t keep up with the condi they put out.

I disagree with your assessment.

Many classes can 1v1 the Druid down.

The nerfs just keep coming. Druids were in a good place the pvp tourney before last. But then pet dmg got nerfed repeatedly, the ability to condi cleanse got nerfed. I don;t know what else they did. But I played then, came back after 2 months working over the road and now…. eh, druids have been in a better place.

I also don’t know what he means by burst, rangers have none of it outside rapidfire lol.

I can only talk about fractals. They seem fine with people not caring/kicking me even though I don’t have spotter or frost spirit and I do PuG fractals alot. To be fair I do run main hand sword 99% and have food buffs so that might add to why I haven’t been kicked so far.

Sarah

Zenith.7301:

I also don’t know what he means by burst, rangers have none of it outside rapidfire lol.

Max out might on you and your pet, swing away with sword, hit f2 on bb.

EnderzShadow.2506:

Archon.6480:

Eh, Druid is very powerful and balanced in PvP right now. It plays the role of a bunkerish bruiser and is a master 1v1 class. Excels at both point blank skirmishing and ranged play (with staff). Has great mobility, high burst, high defense, good crowd control, and has the ability to escape combat.

Has never been on a more equal footing with other classes.

How do you 1v1 vaulting thieves or condi thieves who constantly reset fights?

What about condi mesmers? You can’t keep up with the condi they put out.

I disagree with your assessment.

Many classes can 1v1 the Druid down.

The nerfs just keep coming. Druids were in a good place the pvp tourney before last. But then pet dmg got nerfed repeatedly, the ability to condi cleanse got nerfed. I don;t know what else they did. But I played then, came back after 2 months working over the road and now…. eh, druids have been in a better place.

I didn’t say it was OP, I said it was balanced. It would be OP if no one can beat you. Condi Mesmer looses effectiveness at range, you have to back off a bit. You’ll almost always loose the capture point against a good one but can recap it, if you back off a bit. Mesmer will win ease if you face tank it. It is much stronger at close range. Just like warrior and necro.

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

I also don’t know what he means by burst, rangers have none of it outside rapidfire lol.

Max out might on you and your pet, swing away with sword, hit f2 on bb.

That’s not remotely burst. BB’s a godkitten long channel with obvious telegraph in a a meta full of reflects.

I consider burst windows to be no longer than 3 seconds and to be from skills that are hard to respond to.

Archon.6480:

EnderzShadow.2506:

Archon.6480:

Eh, Druid is very powerful and balanced in PvP right now. It plays the role of a bunkerish bruiser and is a master 1v1 class. Excels at both point blank skirmishing and ranged play (with staff). Has great mobility, high burst, high defense, good crowd control, and has the ability to escape combat.

Has never been on a more equal footing with other classes.

How do you 1v1 vaulting thieves or condi thieves who constantly reset fights?

What about condi mesmers? You can’t keep up with the condi they put out.

I disagree with your assessment.

Many classes can 1v1 the Druid down.

The nerfs just keep coming. Druids were in a good place the pvp tourney before last. But then pet dmg got nerfed repeatedly, the ability to condi cleanse got nerfed. I don;t know what else they did. But I played then, came back after 2 months working over the road and now…. eh, druids have been in a better place.

I didn’t say it was OP, I said it was balanced. It would be OP if no one can beat you. Condi Mesmer looses effectiveness at range, you have to back off a bit. You’ll almost always loose the capture point against a good one but can recap it, if you back off a bit. Mesmer will win ease if you face tank it. It is much stronger at close range. Just like warrior and necro.

It wasn’t OP 3 mos ago, when it was much, much better.

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

I also don’t know what he means by burst, rangers have none of it outside rapidfire lol.

Max out might on you and your pet, swing away with sword, hit f2 on bb.

That’s not remotely burst. BB’s a godkitten long channel with obvious telegraph in a a meta full of reflects.

I consider burst windows to be no longer than 3 seconds and to be from skills that are hard to respond to.

BB’s channel finishes in the time it takes to complete a dodge roll. Same with smoke assualt.

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

I also don’t know what he means by burst, rangers have none of it outside rapidfire lol.

Max out might on you and your pet, swing away with sword, hit f2 on bb.

That’s not remotely burst. BB’s a godkitten long channel with obvious telegraph in a a meta full of reflects.

I consider burst windows to be no longer than 3 seconds and to be from skills that are hard to respond to.

BB’s channel finishes in the time it takes to complete a dodge roll. Same with smoke assualt.

Not really lol.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Assault

2 seconds.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spike_Barrage

2 seconds.

Where do you people pull this bullcrap from?

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

I also don’t know what he means by burst, rangers have none of it outside rapidfire lol.

Max out might on you and your pet, swing away with sword, hit f2 on bb.

That’s not remotely burst. BB’s a godkitten long channel with obvious telegraph in a a meta full of reflects.

I consider burst windows to be no longer than 3 seconds and to be from skills that are hard to respond to.

BB’s channel finishes in the time it takes to complete a dodge roll. Same with smoke assualt.

Not really lol.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Assault

2 seconds.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spike_Barrage

2 seconds.

Where do you people pull this bullcrap from?

You are confusing cast time with channel time. What I said is true, you can completely dodge both of those skills.

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

I also don’t know what he means by burst, rangers have none of it outside rapidfire lol.

Max out might on you and your pet, swing away with sword, hit f2 on bb.

That’s not remotely burst. BB’s a godkitten long channel with obvious telegraph in a a meta full of reflects.

I consider burst windows to be no longer than 3 seconds and to be from skills that are hard to respond to.

BB’s channel finishes in the time it takes to complete a dodge roll. Same with smoke assualt.

Not really lol.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Assault

2 seconds.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spike_Barrage

2 seconds.

Where do you people pull this bullcrap from?

You are confusing cast time with channel time. What I said is true, you can completely dodge both of those skills.

These are channeled damage abilities! They don’t do the entirety of their damage until the channel is complete.

A single dodge won’t take up even half of the time this channel goes through.

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

I also don’t know what he means by burst, rangers have none of it outside rapidfire lol.

Max out might on you and your pet, swing away with sword, hit f2 on bb.

That’s not remotely burst. BB’s a godkitten long channel with obvious telegraph in a a meta full of reflects.

I consider burst windows to be no longer than 3 seconds and to be from skills that are hard to respond to.

BB’s channel finishes in the time it takes to complete a dodge roll. Same with smoke assualt.

Not really lol.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Assault

2 seconds.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spike_Barrage

2 seconds.

Where do you people pull this bullcrap from?

You are confusing cast time with channel time. What I said is true, you can completely dodge both of those skills.

These are channeled damage abilities! They don’t do the entirety of their damage until the channel is complete.

A single dodge won’t take up even half of the time this channel goes through.

zenit seriusly, play with the ranger.

both of those you can evade them with one dodge, beimg the smockeassault more difficult that the spike barrage.

That’s because rangers play with the trait from BM so those skills chanel for half.

in any case even with normal speed with one dodge you can take almost all the damage out, as the dodge last almost one second and those skills has 1 second something of damage chanelling, making those burst completely useles.

Other skills with longer evades would make even easier to nullify the damage.

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

I also don’t know what he means by burst, rangers have none of it outside rapidfire lol.

Max out might on you and your pet, swing away with sword, hit f2 on bb.

That’s not remotely burst. BB’s a godkitten long channel with obvious telegraph in a a meta full of reflects.

I consider burst windows to be no longer than 3 seconds and to be from skills that are hard to respond to.

BB’s channel finishes in the time it takes to complete a dodge roll. Same with smoke assualt.

Not really lol.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Assault

2 seconds.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spike_Barrage

2 seconds.

Where do you people pull this bullcrap from?

You are confusing cast time with channel time. What I said is true, you can completely dodge both of those skills.

These are channeled damage abilities! They don’t do the entirety of their damage until the channel is complete.

A single dodge won’t take up even half of the time this channel goes through.

You do realize that you can keep attacking while you command your pet and it acts in concurrence with you, right? You don’t have to stop attacking when you command your pet… You can even pre-cast your pet abilities while you swing at your foe.

I only ask because, if you know this, you should realize the pet cast time is irrelevant, while the channel time is very relevant. The channel for both of those skills to complete is around 1-1.5s. They are designed so a single dodge roll can completely avoid them, and likewise, deal all their damage in a short timeframe.

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

I also don’t know what he means by burst, rangers have none of it outside rapidfire lol.

Max out might on you and your pet, swing away with sword, hit f2 on bb.

That’s not remotely burst. BB’s a godkitten long channel with obvious telegraph in a a meta full of reflects.

I consider burst windows to be no longer than 3 seconds and to be from skills that are hard to respond to.

BB’s channel finishes in the time it takes to complete a dodge roll. Same with smoke assualt.

Not really lol.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Assault

2 seconds.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spike_Barrage

2 seconds.

Where do you people pull this bullcrap from?

You are confusing cast time with channel time. What I said is true, you can completely dodge both of those skills.

These are channeled damage abilities! They don’t do the entirety of their damage until the channel is complete.

A single dodge won’t take up even half of the time this channel goes through.

You do realize that you can keep attacking while you command your pet and it acts in concurrence with you, right? You don’t have to stop attacking when you command your pet… You can even pre-cast your pet abilities while you swing at your foe.

I only ask because, if you know this, you should realize the pet cast time is irrelevant, while the channel time is very relevant. The channel for both of those skills to complete is around 1-1.5s. They are designed so a single dodge roll can completely avoid them, and likewise, deal all their damage in a short timeframe.

It’s pointless to argue with you people. You keep resorting to tangents to distract from the fact that the activation+ completion time of a skill is exactly as the tooltip says.

Who the hell cares if you can keep attacking. You can attack whether that skill is casting or not, how is that remotely relevant.

And the BM quickness trait is terrible since pets always pause for a while as soon as they’re swapped in so part of the quickness effect is lost before the pet reacts.

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

Archon.6480:

Zenith.7301:

I also don’t know what he means by burst, rangers have none of it outside rapidfire lol.

Max out might on you and your pet, swing away with sword, hit f2 on bb.

That’s not remotely burst. BB’s a godkitten long channel with obvious telegraph in a a meta full of reflects.

I consider burst windows to be no longer than 3 seconds and to be from skills that are hard to respond to.

BB’s channel finishes in the time it takes to complete a dodge roll. Same with smoke assualt.

Not really lol.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Assault

2 seconds.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spike_Barrage

2 seconds.

Where do you people pull this bullcrap from?

You are confusing cast time with channel time. What I said is true, you can completely dodge both of those skills.

These are channeled damage abilities! They don’t do the entirety of their damage until the channel is complete.

A single dodge won’t take up even half of the time this channel goes through.

You do realize that you can keep attacking while you command your pet and it acts in concurrence with you, right? You don’t have to stop attacking when you command your pet… You can even pre-cast your pet abilities while you swing at your foe.

I only ask because, if you know this, you should realize the pet cast time is irrelevant, while the channel time is very relevant. The channel for both of those skills to complete is around 1-1.5s. They are designed so a single dodge roll can completely avoid them, and likewise, deal all their damage in a short timeframe.

It’s pointless to argue with you people. You keep resorting to tangents to distract from the fact that the activation+ completion time of a skill is exactly as the tooltip says.

Who the hell cares if you can keep attacking. You can attack whether that skill is casting or not, how is that remotely relevant.

And the BM quickness trait is terrible since pets always pause for a while as soon as they’re swapped in so part of the quickness effect is lost before the pet reacts.

The bristle channel isnt 2 seconds. I dont think it shows on the tooltip but its shorter. Play with it more and youll see. It stands there for 2 seconds ACTIVATING the attack, then channels for 1 or so seconds. This is why you can dodge the bristle attack. You wait out the activation, dodge the channel.

On the other hand, the smokescale attack has 0 activation, which you can see on the tooltip (this is totally different from the bristle tool tip which says it has a 2 sec activation) but has a 2 second channel. You definitely cant dodge the whole thing in 1 dodge roll.

You can see the tooltips are totally different for these 2 attacks