Guild Wars 2

So many changes sound good on paper, and then you get to test them out, and they fall short, and Hunter’s Shot really falls short.

First problem, you have to have a target. I know this is a fantasy game and all, but where is the logic in that hitting one dude with an arrow gives you stealth to the world?

…the primary use of this skill would be some defense against a thief that just backstabbed you, and in that regard, this skill fails miserably.

Second problem, as far as I can tell from pvp gameplay, one of two things (or both) is happening….
***edit***
….your pets (I had this wrong)
….or an auto attack arrow (I had this wrong)

*barrage*…. if you cast a full barrage, arrows continue to rain down for a few seconds, if you use Hunters shot after using barrage, stealth is broken immediately.

This would normally be one of the best possible times to use hunter’s shot, aoe a zerg and run for it…

*traps*… if your target is being hit with a trap, or sets one off, your stealth will be instantly broken.

Third problem, your pets don’t gain stealth, so if your pet is on passive, or more likely dead, everyone knows where you are.

Fourth problem, it is not an aggro drop, in fact several mobs will just stand there, and wait for you to come out of stealth.

Fifth problem, it can miss, be blocked, obstructed, or dodged making it very unreliable.

..and the bottom line, leaving Hunter’s Shot how it was, and adding 3 seconds of blind, or a 3 second smoke field, would have been a vastly superior improvement.

….your pets don’t break off their attack, and the first attack they make brings you out of stealth, as if you attacked someone.

That is incorrect, you might want to test that. It doesn’t break your stealth at all. The only way your going to break stealth is if you fire your arrow.

well something happens.. I’d say half of the time that I used hunter’s shot last night, it only lasted a fraction of a second.

I’ll hit mists later on to figure it out.

Honestly I think stealth is a cheesy mechanism. While on some level I see how a ranger should have access (more) to stealth. I think stealthing in mid fight is a kitten move. I use to love throw dirt in gw1 its kind of dirty fighting but in a life or death fight who’s playing nice especially when you losing.

pvp wise, they are terrible changes. except for the warhorn

edit1: Tournament pvp wise, not wvw or hot joins

Ezeriel.9574:

well something happens.. I’d say half of the time that I used hunter’s shot last night, it only lasted a fraction of a second.

I’ll hit mists later on to figure it out.

turn off autoattack mb?

about your problems:
1) the logic is classic guerilla hit-and-run tactics.
You shoot someone, then go into hiding to reposition.

2) the first one is not true(mesmers dont break invis from phantasms either) and the second one is laughable, cause if you can’t control where your arrows are when you want to be invis, it’s your own fault.

3) if it’s on passive, how about just sending it to attack? it will run a totally different direction than you at that point, which is a great diversion. If it’s dead… I’d actually really love the skill to stealth your pet, too, if it’s dead. Won’t change much anyway.

4) if your pet IS alive, it in fact IS an aggro drop. The mobs will run after your pet, while you get more range, so they don’t pick up aggro again once you leave stealth.
If your pet is dead in pve, however, just swap it out before going stealth. If you busted 2 friggin pets in a row in pve, you might want to think about getting more durable pets or another profession.

5) Misses/Obstructed should REALLY not be an issue. Here is why: You use it either to boost your dps by refreshing remorseless, where it’s just like busting any other skill… sucks, but it happens and doesn’t have any consequence, or you use it to disengage from an opponent who is closing in.
If you miss or get obstructed while firing on an opponent who is probably at something like 600 range downward, I don’t get, how you want to hit ANYTHING with the bow.
Blinds/Blocks are a non-issue not because it can not happen, but because it can happen to other classes aswell. The only truly uninterruptable stealths are blinding powder and decoy. Anything else can be countered one way or another. Now look at CnD. Can be countered by sidestepping, evading, blinding, blocking or making it whiff any other way. Sounds familiar?

Here is my view: We got a ranged CnD, which can be used in pve to pass aggro to the pet, will typically either be used at below 600 range when it matters or at max range when it doesn’t matter, so missing is a non-issue. It can be used to reposition or cast long cast time skills undetected, is useful for stealth stomps and knocking people off cliffs by hiding your position.
The only weakness I see, is the fact that a dead pet will mark your position in pvp, for which I propose the change of stealthing the pet when it’s dead.

^maybe you should roll a thief, and then you would know that stealth is not an aggro drop, and hasn’t been one for months.

If you are using a melee pet, the mob will attack it while you are stealthed, and when you lose stealth, it will return to you. Ask any thief, this is how stealth works in GW2.

…many times last night, when I used a ranged pet, the mob would just stand still waiting for me to come out of stealth. I assume that is a bug, but either way, when your stealth ends the mob will return to you, because stealth is not an aggro drop, and 3 seconds is not enough time for someone to pick up the aggro.

It is also far from laughable if an auto arrow I fired passes through my point blank target, I use Hunter’s shot, and then the auto arrow hits a guy at 1500 range, causing my stealth to break instantly.

…. I’m off to mists.. I’ll figure it out.

You do realize, with up to 1500 range on the bow, you don’t have to stay in aggro range?
It IS an aggro drop, if you stealth and get some distance before firing again, just as I stated.
Pinging at a mob from a range will make the mob less willing to go after you, if there is other targets within melee range. Some champions, especially those with mixed range attacks, behave differently, tho.
If you want to lose aggro, you need to get out of a certain range of the mob. Hunters shot allows you just that.

It’s barrage…. if you cast a full barrage, arrows continue to rain down for a few seconds, if you use Hunters shot after using barrage, stealth is broken immediately.

This would normally be one of the best possible times to use hunter’s shot, aoe a zerg and run for it…

It’s traps… if your target is being hit with a trap, or sets one off, your stealth will be instantly broken.

I use hunter’s shot and even with auto attack on, once you use HS, you stop attacking. I use it to either move or start a barrage… and at least in pve, the mobs go after pet making it easier to reposition and fire.

Ezeriel.9574:

well something happens.. I’d say half of the time that I used hunter’s shot last night, it only lasted a fraction of a second.

I’ll hit mists later on to figure it out.

Could it be that due to condition damage still hanging on an opponent you were destealthed (since doing dmg)?

Conditions seem to be fine, but the pulses of a trap will break stealth.

Auto attack seems to be fine as well.

Welcome to the world of a C&D thief. At least the Ranger has range stealth.

#1: Where is the logic in stealth? Let’s not talk logic. It’s a game after all.
#2: Pets don’t reveal, attacks landing after stealth do. Stop auto attacking.
#3: Send your pet in a different direction. Tactics. If it’s dead, put more into BM.
#4: Guards even continuously face you in stealth, disallowing a Thief (Yep.) backstab.
#5: Again, same issue on C&D. Aegis, block, miss, invulnerability, etc, etc. Deal with it.

The Ranger addition is marvelous, it makes it a lot more fun. It’s not a god button tho. Learn to use it to its maximum effectiveness. Condition damage ticks do not affect stealth at all.

Ezeriel.9574:

Fourth problem, it is not an aggro drop, in fact several mobs will just stand there, and wait for you to come out of stealth.

That’s how stealth works for a couple of months already.

The value of stealth in tPvP should be self-explanatory. Being able to reset combat or disengage, to revive or stomp in stealth etc…hell Entangling out of stealth and hiding that god-awful telegraphed casting animation is a nice result. Stealth also helps Rangers stay at range…which for a Longbow user is important.

Honestly, between these two changes, the addition of stealth and PB working at 900 units, it is so much easier to stay at range, on that point alone this was a good change. I never would have believe it if you’d told me a month ago that Rangers would be given stealth and people would complain…simply crazy.

Ezeriel.9574:

Conditions seem to be fine, but the pulses of a trap will break stealth.

Auto attack seems to be fine as well.

Condition traps should not break the stealth, since they are ground base damage, and not damage that you deal directly. Similarly, when you’re in stealth as a Thief, and use Choking Gas from shortbow, the stealth isn’t broken either.

Choking gas doesn’t deal direct damage

Ezeriel.9574:

^maybe you should roll a thief, and then you would know that stealth is not an aggro drop, and hasn’t been one for months.

I use our upon Stun going stealth trait, that has always been an agro drop for me. Not sure why you’re saying all stealth isn’t an agro drop.

^it’s a target drop, not an aggro drop. If you have the X amount aggro before you stealth, you will still have X amount of aggro when you unstealth.

An aggro drop skill would remove aggro from you when you used the skill, stealth in GW2 does not do that. It used to drop aggro, but it no longer does that.

Stealth is Op and everyone is in love with that fact… and it’s short sighted.

The stealth in this case is a target drop, and offensively used. We needed an escape.

Right now, on Fort Aspenwood, rangers are massively looked down on in WvW, so much so that I have heard many commanders ask someone if they have a level 80 alt that they can log on to.

A range poison field, smoke, fire, water… that’s the kind of thing that rangers needed. An AOE niche of some sort, that they could bring to support groups.

One water field just doesn’t cut it, when the addition of one elementalist meets that need.

“It’s traps… if your target is being hit with a trap, or sets one off, your stealth will be instantly broken”

If it’s true it’s a bug. Traps should not remove Stealth.

It’s true, I just tested it on the walking golem in mists.

Ezeriel.9574:

^it’s a target drop, not an aggro drop. If you have the X amount aggro before you stealth, you will still have X amount of aggro when you unstealth.

An aggro drop skill would remove aggro from you when you used the skill, stealth in GW2 does not do that. It used to drop aggro, but it no longer does that.

Stealth is Op and everyone is in love with that fact… and it’s short sighted.

The stealth in this case is a target drop, and offensively used. We needed an escape.

Right now, on Fort Aspenwood, rangers are massively looked down on in WvW, so much so that I have heard many commanders ask someone if they have a level 80 alt that they can log on to.

A range poison field, smoke, fire, water… that’s the kind of thing that rangers needed. An AOE niche of some sort, that they could bring to support groups.

One water field just doesn’t cut it, when the addition of one elementalist meets that need.

I see what you’re saying, in pve, hide in plain sight has always meant my pet becomes the main target and most pets will take our agro. However, you are right technically and I stand corrected.

Ezeriel.9574:

It’s true, I just tested it on the walking golem in mists.

Then it must be reported to ANet as it should not happen.

Deathspike.1870:

Welcome to the world of a C&D thief. At least the Ranger has range stealth.

#1: Where is the logic in stealth? Let’s not talk logic. It’s a game after all.
#2: Pets don’t reveal, attacks landing after stealth do. Stop auto attacking.
#3: Send your pet in a different direction. Tactics. If it’s dead, put more into BM.
#4: Guards even continuously face you in stealth, disallowing a Thief (Yep.) backstab.
#5: Again, same issue on C&D. Aegis, block, miss, invulnerability, etc, etc. Deal with it.

The Ranger addition is marvelous, it makes it a lot more fun. It’s not a god button tho. Learn to use it to its maximum effectiveness. Condition damage ticks do not affect stealth at all.

What he said, once you’re in stealth it would be your own fault if you got revealed. Even for a condition build thief spamming Deathblossom and going stealth after WOULD NOT reveal you even with damage ticking. Even if your pet is attacking your target and you stealth it will NOT reveal you. Honestly, you really should learn how to play. A stealth mechanic range? what else do you want. Learn how to maximize the opportunity.

Deathspike.1870:

Welcome to the world of a C&D thief. At least the Ranger has range stealth.

Again, same issue on C&D. Aegis, block, miss, invulnerability, etc, etc. Deal with it.

There is one more issue Rangers have to worry about that is unique to their ranged stealth; namely the obstructed bug.

On all other things said in your post I would agree. But I just had to point this one out.

Daze.6914:

Ezeriel.9574:

It’s true, I just tested it on the walking golem in mists.

Then it must be reported to ANet as it should not happen.

Actually traps don’t JUST deal condition damage, it actually counts the initial damage a trap does as a mimic of you ‘hitting’ the target. This is why omnomberry was so powerful for high crit chance trap builds back before it was nerfed because omnonberry would heal from the crits generated from the initial trap damage. So in this respect of it breaking stealth, it’s not broken as it is basically an attack. I see what you mean though, since we aren’t physically , ourselves, doing the damage it shouldn’t break stealth and I agree.

Ryan.8367:

Daze.6914:

Ezeriel.9574:

It’s true, I just tested it on the walking golem in mists.

Then it must be reported to ANet as it should not happen.

Actually traps don’t JUST deal condition damage, it actually counts the initial damage a trap does as a mimic of you ‘hitting’ the target. This is why omnomberry was so powerful for high crit chance trap builds back before it was nerfed because omnonberry would heal from the crits generated from the initial trap damage. So in this respect of it breaking stealth, it’s not broken as it is basically an attack. I see what you mean though, since we aren’t physically , ourselves, doing the damage it shouldn’t break stealth and I agree.

From http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth
“Abilities that do not deal direct damage (like Choking Gas, Caltrops, or the Traps which do not deal direct damage) will not break stealth, even though they apply damaging conditions.”

I don’t believe Frost Trap, Flame Trap, Viper’s Nest, or Muddy Terrain, deal direct damage.

Ryan.8367:

Daze.6914:

Ezeriel.9574:

It’s true, I just tested it on the walking golem in mists.

Then it must be reported to ANet as it should not happen.

Actually traps don’t JUST deal condition damage, it actually counts the initial damage a trap does as a mimic of you ‘hitting’ the target. This is why omnomberry was so powerful for high crit chance trap builds back before it was nerfed because omnonberry would heal from the crits generated from the initial trap damage. So in this respect of it breaking stealth, it’s not broken as it is basically an attack. I see what you mean though, since we aren’t physically , ourselves, doing the damage it shouldn’t break stealth and I agree.

As said in the previous post, most traps do not deal direct damage but only conditions.

Ezeriel.9574:

It’s barrage…. if you cast a full barrage, arrows continue to rain down for a few seconds, if you use Hunters shot after using barrage, stealth is broken immediately.

This would normally be one of the best possible times to use hunter’s shot, aoe a zerg and run for it…

I was sincerely hoping that we were going to stay stealthed for 3 secs no matter what, meaning attacking wouldn’t break it. I really wanted hit the stealth then cast barrage while in stealth because since I’m rooted I’m just a sitting duck during that cast time …

Frost trap is the only one that doesn’t have a direct damage component.

i ran with it in wvw last night and it didnt fall short of what i read in the patch notes, it may not be over-powered but that doesn’t mean its falling short to me. just difference of opinion i guess..

the sealth is a mechanic that doesn’t belong on the longbow kit.
It belongs in a different weapon set kit, yes, its a great addition… if it was done to the right weapon. like an axe dagger or a sword…. or something where a sealth mattered, but not on a control/aoe weapon where sealth is kinda pointless.

Killsmith.8169:

Frost trap is the only one that doesn’t have a direct damage component.

Yes, after having checked the wiki I can confirm that so no issue here.

I’m in agreeance here. Stealth on the dagger or the sword would have been much nicer. Doesn’t make a lot of sense on an LB. In PvE, it’s not as huge of a deal, but in WvW, that super fast hunter’s shot with the 10 seconds of vulnerability helped so much. Rapid fire gets obstructed and evaded through more often than not and all I can do is cry now when I only get 3-5 stacks of vulnerability on an enemy before going in with my greatsword #2.

I like the stealth, I think it will take a while to get used to. My biggest issue is how easily my stealth gets broken… Like when I pop barrage then use hunters shot, I lose stealth. Sometimes I feel like I am not even hitting people and I will lose stealth. Also, the fact that you have to hit something to stealth makes the skill a bit difficult. I wish I could just turn and run, instead I turn and go into Oh shi* where’s an ambient rabbit I can quickly hit for stealth*

In general I think they need to fix a few things but I like it.

a stealth on melee would be nice however I don’t feel that it fights a ranger. Thief can hide in shadow so mid combat stealthing makes sense. Rangers are more blend in with the forest type stealth. So I see how they would put it on the long bow kind of like sniping a target and blending in (to bad we cant get mual or path of scar type damageon the lb before we stealth).

Haven’t had a chance to test it in WvW yet but if you hit someone with retaliation up does it break stealth? I see that having condition damage on you from PVE mobs does. Can confirm that PVE mobs just stand there waiting for you to come out of stealth.