Guild Wars 2

McWolfy.5924:

healing spring->no self heal
traps->no survivebility
lb,sb->single target without burst and barrage is suicide
1h sword->suicide, you lose control of your movement
axe->a nearly melee weapon but you need to select target. useless
gs->i think the only good weapon in wvw atm
offs->we dont have good main hands for wvw. offh axe is good, horn and torch have 1-1 good skills
muddy->root only at the first pulse, long cast
etc…

Huh? Are you really serious?

Healing Spring: Condi removal + Regen AoE + Water field
LB/SB: No Burst? Ever used #2 on LB? I Rapid Fire to a heavy armour (not specced for tank) for 10-12k.. Also, piercing arrows, ever heard of it?
Sword: Kinda agree here, I only use a sword from time to time in PvP, it’s worthless in WvW..
Axe: Nearly melee? 900 range is not that melee as you think (see Shortbow). Oh, and you have to select a target? Well, duuhh..
GS: Awesome weapon, but I only use it for #3 (to get away) and #4 (to block and move away)
Horn: #5 is a blast finisher, is very appreciated in guild “zerging”
Torch: #5 is a fire field, very appreciated as well..
Muddy terrain: Yeps, saw a thread about it in the bug subforum..

?

So in your own guild group, where you are guildleader, you have a ranger. Great. Now, please among the top 20 guilds, apart from yours ofc. mention one who run with a ranger.
Its not because I lack respect of the good rangers out there, its more the fact it saddens me to realize no good guild group commander has ever found good use of a ranger above other classes. I honestly wish it was different, but it isnt. You have to move tight to move efficiently in a guild group. That doesnt suit the ranger playstyle at all, unfortunately. Especially since all main hand weapons are so weak and useless. I still, sadly, state the mere fact ranger has no utility in such a group above other classes.

killimandros.5087:

So in your own guild group, where you are guildleader, you have a ranger. Great. Now, please among the top 20 guilds, apart from yours ofc. mention one who run with a ranger.
Its not because I lack respect of the good rangers out there, its more the fact it saddens me to realize no good guild group commander has ever found good use of a ranger above other classes. I honestly wish it was different, but it isnt. You have to move tight to move efficiently in a guild group. That doesnt suit the ranger playstyle at all, unfortunately. Especially since all main hand weapons are so weak and useless. I still, sadly, state the mere fact ranger has no utility in such a group above other classes.

Ok, now I understand your point and I somewhat agree.. I’m not guild leader btw.. :-)

You do have to move tight in a guild group, but once the attack starts, I’ll just see my fellow guardians rush in and do some mayhem, while I keep ranged and pop down barrage (stacked with might thanks to the guard buddies).

But yeah, if I ever should read in WvW that a party is looking for a ranger explicitly, that’ll make my day.. However, it’s not the rangers fault that others are ignorant as to what we CAN bring to the table..

Although, I still want to add that the one playing the profession is what matters.. I have seen lots of good rangers and bad guards, and vice versa..

Well, being out of the tight knotted guardian/warrior meat ball is unfortunately why its so hard to fit a ranger intop a guild group combo, because you cant give benefits to the greoup if you are far away, and neither can you profit from the benefits surrounding such a group. Lets just take retaliation and stability as an example. When the ball hits, it will have both up, but just if you are within range. Anything else will, litterally kill you in seconds. If you barrage such a group, you will be on 10% health afterwards, because of confusion and retaliation. At the same time, you wont receive the waterfields dropped on the group, so basically you are bleeding yourself to death, doing what the ranger can do best. Ideally, barrage should be cast on the run, like so many other aoe skills. Imagine iof the necro had to stand still for the entire wells duration. Not likely. And longbows damaghe should be as good on point blank as on 1200 range. But it isnt. To pull out your own waterfield, which is the best in game, you have to negate your own dps, because its useless where you will be standing, which is away from the team. Rangers excell in zergs, much more than support guardians and many other classes. Because there you can shine, picking the targets you want. WHile in a groupball, you dont have that privilege, unfortunately. Much could be done to the melee weapons available to optimize it. As I said earlier, some of the off-hand weapons are decent. Axe, torch, dagger all have its utilities, some even in organized groups. Blasting on your own waterfield with warhorn 5 is great, and brings utility, but we need more, much more. A non-locked main hand weapon aoe swing. A group cleanse, or a main hand cleave stun would be a starter. Then it could be efficient to bring a bunker guardian to a team. Still, it doesnt exist, if it comes, Ill gladly shelf my guard

Traps in lords room

/end thread

reading through this, all i see is a bunch of people who couldnt be kitten, or have no clue what their on about. A few of you seem to know how this class works though, kudos to you.
As for all this bullkitten regarding DPS. If you want burst DPS, go roll a warrior. it is a BURST DPS PROFESSION. Ranger’s aren’t. Just because a few professions can dish out four-five digit crits in bursts, doesn’t mean it is the strongest or best choice.

killimandros.5087:

Rhaps, 2 points. Ill take your last point first; Its crap because it makes it very hard for me to follow my guild group. Thats why its crap. If I try to pull it off in anything besides a zerg, I get burnt down before duration time ends. So, in other words, its useless. Second point, you said there are other classes which are as useless as hunter. Well, the two best classes are Guardian and warrior for a good organized guild zerg bust team. But, ALL other classes has its uses, EXCEPT Ranger. As yourself pointed out, there will occationally be even engineers. But no rangers. I have myself Guardian, thief, ranger and warrior. No sane team leader will ever ask me to log on my ranger. Has never happened, will never happen. ANd rightfully so.
It doesnt mean I dont enjoy my ranger. Its a totally different game. Ranger is not built to be an asset to a team. Maybe if you are running two or three friends, relaxing trying to pick out one or two, running the risk etc. its good fun. Its good fun to try one vs one as well, testing different builds. I like my ranger, but its still useless for anything else than my personal fun. Might be decent in sPvP, I dont know, because I dont like sPvP.

Huh? I was just correcting you on the viability of 2 skills and otherwise agreeing.

First point, I use both skills to great effect in WvW in and out of zergs. If you die all the time when using them you’re either using them wrong or just getting straight outplayed. I think the fact that you barely mentioned the full functionality of GS 4/5 or how to utilise it leads me to believe you have very little experience using it. You don’t mention the moving ranged block, the ranged cripple, the 50% dmg boost to pet, how they are interrupts and will allow you to proc AoO off MoC and also that they get their stun durations boosted by MoC to be very useful. You need to practice your GS Ranger more before lecturing people on their effectiveness.

Secondly. This, “you said there are other classes which are as useless as hunter” I absolutely 100% in no way said this. I have noooo idea where you are pulling it from. I said Ranger is a harder class to play in WvW than my other toons. Thats it. Don’t put words in my mouth.

You 2 are talking different topics. You play ranger as a pug but killimandros is talking about teamwork which becomes more and more popular in high Tier WvWs.

Rhaps.8540:

killimandros.5087:

Rhaps, 2 points. Ill take your last point first; Its crap because it makes it very hard for me to follow my guild group. Thats why its crap. If I try to pull it off in anything besides a zerg, I get burnt down before duration time ends. So, in other words, its useless. Second point, you said there are other classes which are as useless as hunter. Well, the two best classes are Guardian and warrior for a good organized guild zerg bust team. But, ALL other classes has its uses, EXCEPT Ranger. As yourself pointed out, there will occationally be even engineers. But no rangers. I have myself Guardian, thief, ranger and warrior. No sane team leader will ever ask me to log on my ranger. Has never happened, will never happen. ANd rightfully so.
It doesnt mean I dont enjoy my ranger. Its a totally different game. Ranger is not built to be an asset to a team. Maybe if you are running two or three friends, relaxing trying to pick out one or two, running the risk etc. its good fun. Its good fun to try one vs one as well, testing different builds. I like my ranger, but its still useless for anything else than my personal fun. Might be decent in sPvP, I dont know, because I dont like sPvP.

Huh? I was just correcting you on the viability of 2 skills and otherwise agreeing.

First point, I use both skills to great effect in WvW in and out of zergs. If you die all the time when using them you’re either using them wrong or just getting straight outplayed. I think the fact that you barely mentioned the full functionality of GS 4/5 or how to utilise it leads me to believe you have very little experience using it. You don’t mention the moving ranged block, the ranged cripple, the 50% dmg boost to pet, how they are interrupts and will allow you to proc AoO off MoC and also that they get their stun durations boosted by MoC to be very useful. You need to practice your GS Ranger more before lecturing people on their effectiveness.

Secondly. This, “you said there are other classes which are as useless as hunter” I absolutely 100% in no way said this. I have noooo idea where you are pulling it from. I said Ranger is a harder class to play in WvW than my other toons. Thats it. Don’t put words in my mouth.

CRrabbit.1284:

You 2 are talking different topics. You play ranger as a pug but killimandros is talking about teamwork which becomes more and more popular in high Tier WvWs.

I play ranger as a pug? I love how people with no clue about me just make rampant assumptions based on nothing.

Actually I WvW on Seafarer’s Rest, in the top tier, have done since I started playing. I’m GM of a 450+ strong guild and we raid and command in EB/Borderlands regularly. I just dont go around making sweeping statements like my word is law. That’s the difference here.

I’m just pointing out he had little grasp of how the 2 GS skills worked (thats fine, maybe he just isnt great with ranger GS or hasnt run the same builds I have) and i agreed with the rest of what he said. He comes and put words in my mouth and you come making assumptions about me. Honestly.

then you are just killing pugs. same difference. you will only kitten your guild by running ranger in an organized setting. GvG for instance, or lets say 20vs40 GvZ where every man has to count.

I would have to disagree, it all comes down to how you play and how you can help your zerg, I go high crit, high crit damage with CC’s with fear and freeze or will switch out pet for aoe might. With muddy you can slow a zerg down, with extra range you can stay at a safe distance as you barrage down on your pin to lay waste to what they are fighting or take down siege other classes can’t hit. Add in AOE fire sigil and bleeds and you are doing a boat load of damage. Finish off with piercing. You also have healing well for condition removal. GW for blocking and quick escapes. List goes on it’s fun class to play, tuff to master. I’m on JQ so have lots of experience with T1 Zergs.

“MT slowing a zerg down” is actually an illusion, or a delusion. currently, MT is broken and only affects 3 targets. the cripple field pulses on only 3 targets. zerg = 20+ people, so you aint slowing anyone down. barrage is completely avoided with one dodge roll.

looks fantastic on paper. but there are too many people on these forums who talk a lot without doing any scientific testing of their builds.

I have to say zerk LB ranger might be the best use of current ranger situation. At least we can do some damage at a relatively safer place. That’s all.
However, a staff ele can do much better than us in this point. That’s the key of the topic.

Gotchaz.7865:

I would have to disagree, it all comes down to how you play and how you can help your zerg, I go high crit, high crit damage with CC’s with fear and freeze or will switch out pet for aoe might. With muddy you can slow a zerg down, with extra range you can stay at a safe distance as you barrage down on your pin to lay waste to what they are fighting or take down siege other classes can’t hit. Add in AOE fire sigil and bleeds and you are doing a boat load of damage. Finish off with piercing. You also have healing well for condition removal. GW for blocking and quick escapes. List goes on it’s fun class to play, tuff to master. I’m on JQ so have lots of experience with T1 Zergs.

My shout build is very close to your Sent build, and yes I already replace GS with sword+horn (sword is actually better than GS for escaping and same for mobility) and mainly use axe/axe. LB is still not my tea since I found axe-main can actually do more easier damage and easier to control. I would rather to pay more attention to get survive and ensure my pet to land their limited CC on exactly right time than spending too much attention counting on the time of weapon skills.
Have to say – Axe as off is really really good practically, 4 damage is decent and perfect combination with axe 1+2. Axe5 is just what you want while you are immobilized (which is very common in zerg front line fight) pared with protect me. When my axe5 end usually is the same time my protect me and and my immobilization end, perfect time to swap to sword 2 + l-reflex I am 1800+ range away. Greatly increased my survivalbility VS those well-organized zerg train. But still old problem, I don’t feel I contribute much compared with other classes which I played.

Rabbit, u should try the damage variant of my sent build sword/axe/lb. It’s actually a decent alternative to the staff ele. It gives les s b oons but has more immobilizes and does more aoe damage.

try to focus on what you CAN do! and u can disrupt the crap out of people. all the while giving water and doing very decent aoe damage. like we have more hard CC than the ele does. we out-dps non-zerker staff eles. we can do more damage than any frontliner, while hopping in and out of the frontlines.

as i said if people see the ranger as a hybrid, they’ll be happier with the prof. id just like them to fix our kitten AOE’s so they target 5 people like theyre supposed to.

I don’t zerg much. When I do I’m half afk watching tv, eating, alt-tabbing because it’s boring.

However, what I do like to do is roam…. Rangers excel at roaming. Also they are prob 1 of the better professions for a 5 man roaming team. IMHO

I agree that ranger is a good roamer, but not the best, you win only if your OP is willing to fight you. If they choose to run , basically you have nothing to really stop+kill them. And if really bad situation happened, ranger is yet not the best at escaping(we are good at it, but definitely not the best). As a roamer, warrior, mesmer, thief over-shine ranger in my opinion.

Tricare.2946:

I don’t zerg much. When I do I’m half afk watching tv, eating, alt-tabbing because it’s boring.

However, what I do like to do is roam…. Rangers excel at roaming. Also they are prob 1 of the better professions for a 5 man roaming team. IMHO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmJOn9peQK8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqcrhYMpG6o

Lol so you want your cake and want to eat it too huh?

Warriors are laughable, can kill any of them np. If they run, oh well, try to keep them chilled, crippled, feared with pets and axe.

Mesmers, only ones that are tough 1v1 are full zerker phantasm builds…. but then again those are easy mode stealth and keep your phantasms up builds which is probably the best 1v1 build out there.

Thieves. Those are are easy enough to kill as long as you land your bust. However, I agree they can get away if they want, but if you put enough hurting on them, they will probably leave you alone.

My Ranger is slightly different than a Thief in WvW. I roam around looking for fights. At times I join the zerg. My targest ? Others standing back from the blob. I spike on them, kill them, then move onto the next victim. Why would I want to be in the middle of the blob? If I truly did want to be I would play my Ele or Warrior. Different tools for different jobs.

Other than to complain, what the kitten do you want…or expect? Every game I have played…EQ/EQ2/Vanguard/LOTR/DAOC/WoW/Rift/GW2, I have always played some type of archer and a healer type as my alt. What do I expect going in ? That my archer type class is going to be my roamer/soloer and my healer is going to be my grouping class. I didn’t make a Cleric in daoc to go out soloing in pvp..then complain because he didn’t do it well. I didn’t make a Scout in Daoc to be part of some gank group in pvp.

Honestly, a Ranger can do just fine in a 10 man/5man “gank” group in GW2. A well organized group can take a Ranger and dominate vs most other groups. Forward thinking and innovation goes a long way. Sure they might lose to a hardcore group of all Engineers/Warriors etc but so what.

That’s why you see Elementalists cry they were underpowered. Then someone comes out with a D/D build and everyone flocks to it like a bunch of sheep. Eventually causes a nerf. No different here. People cry about Rangers and the sheep chime in and agree. The forward thinkers and innovators do just fine. Many dominate as a solo or as part of guild groups.

I know it is human nature to whine and complain but it is annoying at times. A Ranger is what it is. Play to it’s strengths, not to what you want it to be.

mistsim.2748:

then you are just killing pugs. same difference. you will only kitten your guild by running ranger in an organized setting. GvG for instance, or lets say 20vs40 GvZ where every man has to count.

Again, assumptions that we never GvG or GvZ. What is with you people? Did you all wake up today thinking you’re psychic?

Sfr is constantly in GvZ situations. We’re well organised (very active serverwide TS) but don’t have the same numbers as our matchups so we do have to make our teams count, down to the last member. And as I said originally, I agree with Killimandros’s assesment of Ranger’s place in that overall. I just had issue with his evalutaion of a couple skills and rambling about something I didn’t say. That’s all.

I had no idea you all had your heads so firmly wedged up his kitten that I’d have to defend my credentials to make the slightest comment about something he said.

I still own kids. L2P

Rhaps.8540:

mistsim.2748:

then you are just killing pugs. same difference. you will only kitten your guild by running ranger in an organized setting. GvG for instance, or lets say 20vs40 GvZ where every man has to count.

Again, assumptions that we never GvG or GvZ. What is with you people? Did you all wake up today thinking you’re psychic?

Sfr is constantly in GvZ situations. We’re well organised (very active serverwide TS) but don’t have the same numbers as our matchups so we do have to make our teams count, down to the last member. And as I said originally, I agree with Killimandros’s assesment of Ranger’s place in that overall. I just had issue with his evalutaion of a couple skills and rambling about something I didn’t say. That’s all.

I had no idea you all had your heads so firmly wedged up his kitten that I’d have to defend my credentials to make the slightest comment about something he said.

Point taken. If I misunderstood you, I am sorry. It all cooks down to the fact (IMO) Rangers abilities doesnt support tight knot mobile team. It does, however have several abilities making it a great zerg player, or roamer. Which is why the guilds focusing on that type of fighting (tight mobile teams) will never find space for a ranger. A team like Red Guard, as an example, would never recruit a ranger, no matter how skilled he was (Pardon Saccy if I am wrong). This is quite common in games like GW2. The best example was WAR, where the best warbands would run with ONLY fom classes. Seeing videos of the better teams, show me they utilize max 4 classes, and ranger is not one of them, leading me to believe it is the ranger as a class, not the team-leader who fails in that combo.