I dont like where ranger is going.
Going? Was there ever a time rangers were welcomed into PvE groups if they weren’t set up with party buffs?
Don’t get me wrong, I’d love for rangers to be a top dps class but this isn’t “where rangers are going”, rangers have always been support or kicked from groups.
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
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the “druid” healing theme is not where ranger is going, its where ranger is right now. I dont know what our next specialization will be, but i’m 100% sure it wont be about healing.
Also, every class has that “respec or gtfo” problem. Try playing anything in a raid that isn’t meta. Nature of raids/highend fractals/speedrun dungeon groups.
Thing is my ranger was my first pick right at game launch. I wanted the pet class, or with a little less ‘pet’ and more ‘archer’ the class with devastating long range attacks. I never imagined that my warrior with bow, would out damage my ranger with bow.
To me a warrior with a bow is a ‘after thought’ not a ‘specialization’
No warrior picks up a bow and says “thats for me!”
and no ranger tosses his/her bow down, picks up a staff and says “hell yah!”
We had 1 group heal. Elementalist had several. One would think that an F2 running Elementalist would be filling the roll that rangers are forced into.
anyway i’ve got more time and gold on my ranger, but shes sitting on the shelf, not because I want her the, but because i can’t play the way I’d like. Through kitten poor planning anet wont let me.
thats how I feel anyway.
I feel the same way regardless of the class I would play. I want to play the build I make not what someone made for me. As such I stay away from fractals, speedruns and raids.
I was the same way in gw1 except there I had the option of normal mode and AI I could complete raids ( I miss fow). And of course in hardmode a balanced AI team could do vanquishing of zones.
If you wanna play a dps character play a different class for raids. I don’t know why people have an adversion to playing something different. If you wanna play druid then just play that support. Support is not as far off from playing dps as you might think. Instead of making red bars go down, you make green bars go up. Think of your healing skills as dps and “heals them dead real good!”.
…snip…
If you wanna play a dps character play a different class for raids. I don’t know why people have an adversion to playing something different. If you wanna play druid then just play that support. Support is not as far off from playing dps as you might think. Instead of making red bars go down, you make green bars go up. Think of your healing skills as dps and “heals them dead real good!”.
the problem with this is that is extending to other game modes, it’s not the first time i find in wvw the commander in a PUGs squad asking rangers to be healing druid or reroll.
Which actually have some sense because the ranger damage is awful compared to other classes that can help the zerg much better in dps. But i hope we can agree as Anet’s We dont have hardcoded roles you play how you like motto i shouldn’t be forced to play healbot if i don’t feel like instead to reroll.
Hmmmh… Yep, this is the very same issue we’ve discussed ever since reveal.
We just don’t have the DPS. We have never been loved. We have never been taken equal. We have always been the one who “braindead class 11111, lol”-ed our enemies or “Kick the ranger, it’s useless”-ed.
That’s who we have been in pugs ever since I can remember. You either have to stop associating yourself with egoistic people or you have to stop being a selfish role-player. If you join the group that strives for results with a role-playing DPS build that literally SUCKS compared to any other class – you’ll naturally be thrown out. That’s common sense.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
People shall welcome you with open arms if you come baring many gifts. Someone with nothing but (mediocre) dps will be the last one on the list always. This applies to all of the classes not just rangers.
The expansion has been rather kind also. The addition of so many powerful offensive buffs almost rivaling those of a PS warrior.
Those with a good knowledge of the class and the raid will not want to you to stick to the staff anyways especially if you are the second druid in the raid. You can play a condition druid which focuses on damage dealing and doesn’t even use a staff.
However, if you are of the mindset to only ever play the one class running the one build you enjoy then raids might not be the right content for you. The nature of this game does not favor compositions like “one tank + one healer + eight full damage dealers”. Everyone is supposed to pull their weight. It means that those full damage builds still need to bring something else on the side.
That includes unique class buffs, boons, CC, healing, condition removal, reflects and of course a good amount of damage. There are hardly any actual builds which focus on just one aspect entirely.
You fail and you succeed together as a party or a raid squad. You should always adjust your build to something benefitting everyone when you play with others and go with something more solo focused when you are alone.
You can decide for yourself what you want to do in the end. Yet, you happen to main the class which is most viable at the healing role in raids. I still can not see any fault in pugs expecting the most viable healing class to play what is optimal when running the most competitive PvE content.
Also, every class has that “respec or gtfo” problem. Try playing anything in a raid that isn’t meta. Nature of raids/highend fractals/speedrun dungeon groups.
Ele:
dagger/warhorn, staff berzerker, or dagger/focus condi variations, or full water staff healing variation.
There, healer, condi, and power dps all used in raids.
Ranger has no such benefit of role flexibility.
Also, every class has that “respec or gtfo” problem. Try playing anything in a raid that isn’t meta. Nature of raids/highend fractals/speedrun dungeon groups.
Ele:
dagger/warhorn, staff berzerker, or dagger/focus condi variations, or full water staff healing variation.
There, healer, condi, and power dps all used in raids.
Ranger has no such benefit of role flexibility.
Ele is a even more of a jack-of-all-trades that Ranger is. It’s understandable that it’d be more diverse. That being said, do you ever see anyone looking for condi Ele’s? No? Now look for condi Druids. Bingo.
NSPride <3
Zerk druids and condi druids bring no healing power. If you’re joining groups that are specifically asking for a magi’s druid, that’s a different issue.
Zerk druids and condi druids bring no healing power. If you’re joining groups that are specifically asking for a magi’s druid, that’s a different issue.
What about Zealot Druid?
NSPride <3
Also, every class has that “respec or gtfo” problem. Try playing anything in a raid that isn’t meta. Nature of raids/highend fractals/speedrun dungeon groups.
Ele:
dagger/warhorn, staff berzerker, or dagger/focus condi variations, or full water staff healing variation.
There, healer, condi, and power dps all used in raids.
Ranger has no such benefit of role flexibility.
Ele is a even more of a jack-of-all-trades that Ranger is. It’s understandable that it’d be more diverse. That being said, do you ever see anyone looking for condi Ele’s? No? Now look for condi Druids. Bingo.
Jack of all trades, master of all lol.
Condi ele works just fine in VG. It actually does just as much if not more DPS than condi ranger (while suffering from the same issue, that targets moving out of bonfire/flamewall wrecks their DPS). And most people alternate between condi and power ranger because honestly the DPS on either is utterly mediocre and you’re just a buff/healbot with side DPS capabilities.
Nobody brings a ranger to DPS because ranger DPS is simply bad, and most importantly ranger aoe/cleave is the worst in the game of the DPS specs.
Zerk druids and condi druids bring no healing power. If you’re joining groups that are specifically asking for a magi’s druid, that’s a different issue.
What about Zealot Druid?
That’s fine too. But I vaguely remember someone crunching the numbers and figuring out that full zealot dps/healing wasn’t significantly better than either magis or zerk and it wasn’t worth it for most players to craft a whole new set of zealots armor.
I guess it you’re rolling in gold maybe. But my experience is people either want you in zerk if they’re good and don’t take that much damage and want to squeeze out as much DPS from you as possible for speed clears. Or they run magis to keep everyone constantly topped off at 90% for scholar runes and healer doesn’t need to worry about anything else.
What about Zealot Druid?
That’s fine too. But I vaguely remember someone crunching the numbers and figuring out that full zealot dps/healing wasn’t significantly better than either magis or zerk and it wasn’t worth it for most players to craft a whole new set of zealots armor.
I guess it you’re rolling in gold maybe. But my experience is people either want you in zerk if they’re good and don’t take that much damage and want to squeeze out as much DPS from you as possible for speed clears. Or they run magis to keep everyone constantly topped off at 90% for scholar runes and healer doesn’t need to worry about anything else.
This.
I remember when raids came out and we literally took calculators in our hands and calculated the difference.
From a healing ranger perspective (Zealot goes for healing power which already assumes you spend time in CAF instead of dealing damage) – Vale Guardian fight will end 1,3 seconds sooner (assuming killing the boss at 0:00 enrage timer) if you swap out of Cleric into Zealot.
It’s a nice niche to have but … In reality, anyone calm-minded will tell you Zealot is not a necessity. It’s way too expansive for the reward. It really is only for min-maxing the content that already is not min-maxed since they need you to heal.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
(edited by Tragic Positive.9356)
Also, every class has that “respec or gtfo” problem. Try playing anything in a raid that isn’t meta. Nature of raids/highend fractals/speedrun dungeon groups.
Ele:
dagger/warhorn, staff berzerker, or dagger/focus condi variations, or full water staff healing variation.
There, healer, condi, and power dps all used in raids.
Ranger has no such benefit of role flexibility.
Ele is a even more of a jack-of-all-trades that Ranger is. It’s understandable that it’d be more diverse. That being said, do you ever see anyone looking for condi Ele’s? No? Now look for condi Druids. Bingo.
Jack of all trades, master of all lol.
Condi ele works just fine in VG. It actually does just as much if not more DPS than condi ranger (while suffering from the same issue, that targets moving out of bonfire/flamewall wrecks their DPS). And most people alternate between condi and power ranger because honestly the DPS on either is utterly mediocre and you’re just a buff/healbot with side DPS capabilities.
Nobody brings a ranger to DPS because ranger DPS is simply bad, and most importantly ranger aoe/cleave is the worst in the game of the DPS specs.
If you make a ele for anything other than dps, you will be told to respec or gtfo. Because that’s what people expect eles to do. My statement was one of what people expect your character to be, not whether it had build diversity.
And I would argue ranger does have build diversity, but let’s stay on topic.
If you make a ele for anything other than dps, you will be told to respec or gtfo. Because that’s what people expect eles to do. My statement was one of what people expect your character to be, not whether it had build diversity.
And I would argue ranger does have build diversity, but let’s stay on topic.
I have been witness of several occasions where an Ele was asked to take on a duty of healer. In PvP they can technically get away with anything. Cleric. Berseker. Any good ele will take the lead of the battle.
In WvW, they are beasts as Celestials (or at least used to, not sure about today).
And there is a video of the slowest Vale Guardian fight achieved by 10 elementalists (which means they are even the most versatile class, not only the most efficient – I think it was 17 minutes long VG)
No one else is scrapped into a single role as we are. That comparison to Elementalists was on spot.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Also, every class has that “respec or gtfo” problem. Try playing anything in a raid that isn’t meta. Nature of raids/highend fractals/speedrun dungeon groups.
Ele:
dagger/warhorn, staff berzerker, or dagger/focus condi variations, or full water staff healing variation.
There, healer, condi, and power dps all used in raids.
Ranger has no such benefit of role flexibility.
Ele is a even more of a jack-of-all-trades that Ranger is. It’s understandable that it’d be more diverse. That being said, do you ever see anyone looking for condi Ele’s? No? Now look for condi Druids. Bingo.
Jack of all trades, master of all lol.
Condi ele works just fine in VG. It actually does just as much if not more DPS than condi ranger (while suffering from the same issue, that targets moving out of bonfire/flamewall wrecks their DPS). And most people alternate between condi and power ranger because honestly the DPS on either is utterly mediocre and you’re just a buff/healbot with side DPS capabilities.
Nobody brings a ranger to DPS because ranger DPS is simply bad, and most importantly ranger aoe/cleave is the worst in the game of the DPS specs.
If you make a ele for anything other than dps, you will be told to respec or gtfo. Because that’s what people expect eles to do. My statement was one of what people expect your character to be, not whether it had build diversity.
And I would argue ranger does have build diversity, but let’s stay on topic.
Ironically, ele is only seen for the bunker role in PvP.
NSPride <3
If you make a ele for anything other than dps, you will be told to respec or gtfo. Because that’s what people expect eles to do. My statement was one of what people expect your character to be, not whether it had build diversity.
And I would argue ranger does have build diversity, but let’s stay on topic.
I have been witness of several occasions where an Ele was asked to take on a duty of healer. In PvP they can technically get away with anything. Cleric. Berseker. Any good ele will take the lead of the battle.
In WvW, they are beasts as Celestials (or at least used to, not sure about today).
And there is a video of the slowest Vale Guardian fight achieved by 10 elementalists (which means they are even the most versatile class, not only the most efficient – I think it was 17 minutes long VG)No one else is scrapped into a single role as we are. That comparison to Elementalists was on spot.
Mesmer has one role and one role ever in any group content, or they get kicked. Trust me, they have it worse.
Mesmer has one role and one role ever in any group content, or they get kicked. Trust me, they have it worse.
Yet they bring more in PvE mathematically, and I alone know of Burst Mesmer as well as Condi or Well bunker builds.
I played one, so I think we are only in kind of similar boat as mesmers. But they certainly don’t have it worse.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
Also, every class has that “respec or gtfo” problem. Try playing anything in a raid that isn’t meta. Nature of raids/highend fractals/speedrun dungeon groups.
Ele:
dagger/warhorn, staff berzerker, or dagger/focus condi variations, or full water staff healing variation.
There, healer, condi, and power dps all used in raids.
Ranger has no such benefit of role flexibility.
Ele is a even more of a jack-of-all-trades that Ranger is. It’s understandable that it’d be more diverse. That being said, do you ever see anyone looking for condi Ele’s? No? Now look for condi Druids. Bingo.
Jack of all trades, master of all lol.
Condi ele works just fine in VG. It actually does just as much if not more DPS than condi ranger (while suffering from the same issue, that targets moving out of bonfire/flamewall wrecks their DPS). And most people alternate between condi and power ranger because honestly the DPS on either is utterly mediocre and you’re just a buff/healbot with side DPS capabilities.
Nobody brings a ranger to DPS because ranger DPS is simply bad, and most importantly ranger aoe/cleave is the worst in the game of the DPS specs.
If you make a ele for anything other than dps, you will be told to respec or gtfo. Because that’s what people expect eles to do. My statement was one of what people expect your character to be, not whether it had build diversity.
And I would argue ranger does have build diversity, but let’s stay on topic.
Plenty of eles running water staff, Nike from DnT even suggests it for a safe pug comp.
I mean, by your own logic, if I made a druid to wear anything but zerker or viper, I’d be told to regear or gtfo by optimal groups.
But that doesn’t happen, because the truth is most groups run magi/zealot druid even though they’re a waste of gear to carry failing groups in raid content where not a single fight requires anything below zerker or vipers.
Mesmer has one role and one role ever in any group content, or they get kicked. Trust me, they have it worse.
Yet they bring more in PvE mathematically, and I alone know of Burst Mesmer as well as Condi or Well bunker builds.
I played one, so I think we are only in kind of similar boat as mesmers. But they certainly don’t have it worse.
This is so wrong.
Optimal groups bring ONE mesmer. Optimal groups bring TWO druids and PS warriors. That alone tells you the strength of the buffs provided for a class that make some wanted to be stacked over others.
Nothing beats PS warrior in terms of group damage boost, and druid comes in second place.
(edited by Zenith.7301)
Also, every class has that “respec or gtfo” problem. Try playing anything in a raid that isn’t meta. Nature of raids/highend fractals/speedrun dungeon groups.
Ele:
dagger/warhorn, staff berzerker, or dagger/focus condi variations, or full water staff healing variation.
There, healer, condi, and power dps all used in raids.
Ranger has no such benefit of role flexibility.
Ele is a even more of a jack-of-all-trades that Ranger is. It’s understandable that it’d be more diverse. That being said, do you ever see anyone looking for condi Ele’s? No? Now look for condi Druids. Bingo.
Jack of all trades, master of all lol.
Condi ele works just fine in VG. It actually does just as much if not more DPS than condi ranger (while suffering from the same issue, that targets moving out of bonfire/flamewall wrecks their DPS). And most people alternate between condi and power ranger because honestly the DPS on either is utterly mediocre and you’re just a buff/healbot with side DPS capabilities.
Nobody brings a ranger to DPS because ranger DPS is simply bad, and most importantly ranger aoe/cleave is the worst in the game of the DPS specs.
If you make a ele for anything other than dps, you will be told to respec or gtfo. Because that’s what people expect eles to do. My statement was one of what people expect your character to be, not whether it had build diversity.
And I would argue ranger does have build diversity, but let’s stay on topic.
Plenty of eles running water staff, Nike from DnT even suggests it for a safe pug comp.
I mean, by your own logic, if I made a druid to wear anything but zerker or viper, I’d be told to regear or gtfo by optimal groups.
But that doesn’t happen, because the truth is most groups run magi/zealot druid even though they’re a waste of gear to carry failing groups in raid content where not a single fight requires anything below zerker or vipers.
Mesmer has one role and one role ever in any group content, or they get kicked. Trust me, they have it worse.
Yet they bring more in PvE mathematically, and I alone know of Burst Mesmer as well as Condi or Well bunker builds.
I played one, so I think we are only in kind of similar boat as mesmers. But they certainly don’t have it worse.
This is so wrong.
Optimal groups bring ONE mesmer. Optimal groups bring TWO druids and PS warriors. That alone tells you the strength of the buffs provided for a class that make some wanted to be stacked over others.
Nothing beats PS warrior in terms of group damage boost, and druid comes in second place.
I have seen many people go on about what is optimal for groups. I think what’s optimal depends on what the group is doing (to state the obvious).
I do know that because of wonky mechanics (the same issues our pets have with moving targets, shatters have with them too), mesmers come behind rangers on both power and condi dps (unless the target is highly mobile, then mesmer may do better on condi), heals, and most support/buffs. The alacrity and quickness of the mesmer is what gets them into groups (and portal helps too). That’s pretty much it. If your mes is spec for condi or dps or heals, you’re kick bait (unless playing with friends or guildies).
Note: I’m speaking about pve. I don’t do pvp or wvw, so no clue how things work out there.
Ranger I’ve done well with doing support, healing, and condi (usually a mix of the 3). I’ve never been kicked from a group. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but between these two classes, I know which one gets more traction in groups in my experience, and most other people who play both that I’ve talked to say the same thing.
This is so wrong.
Optimal groups bring ONE mesmer. Optimal groups bring TWO druids and PS warriors. That alone tells you the strength of the buffs provided for a class that make some wanted to be stacked over others.
Nothing beats PS warrior in terms of group damage boost, and druid comes in second place.
That’s exactly the reason.
One mesmer can support more than 5 people with quickness and provides alacrity (not everyone benefits from it that much, only some classes need it).
You wouldn’t have brought 2 Rangers if 1/3 of what they bring would be a pointless overkill at a cost of low DPS.
And some groups (non-hardcore groups) still bring 2 mesmers.
Which means 2 mesmers are still optimal. Not the top efficient but still very optimal.
“Observe, learn and counter.”
anyway i’ve got more time and gold on my ranger, but shes sitting on the shelf, not because I want her the, but because i can’t play the way I’d like. Through kitten poor planning anet wont let me.
thats how I feel anyway.
Everything you said was reasonable until this point. It’s not you that sets the expectations for the class, so implying the reason you shelved your ranger is because of " kitten poor planning" from Anet is just ridiculous. Players never get to dictate how these things are defined.
Also, every class has that “respec or gtfo” problem. Try playing anything in a raid that isn’t meta. Nature of raids/highend fractals/speedrun dungeon groups.
Ele:
dagger/warhorn, staff berzerker, or dagger/focus condi variations, or full water staff healing variation.
There, healer, condi, and power dps all used in raids.
Ranger has no such benefit of role flexibility.
Ele is a even more of a jack-of-all-trades that Ranger is. It’s understandable that it’d be more diverse. That being said, do you ever see anyone looking for condi Ele’s? No? Now look for condi Druids. Bingo.
Jack of all trades, master of all lol.
Condi ele works just fine in VG. It actually does just as much if not more DPS than condi ranger (while suffering from the same issue, that targets moving out of bonfire/flamewall wrecks their DPS). And most people alternate between condi and power ranger because honestly the DPS on either is utterly mediocre and you’re just a buff/healbot with side DPS capabilities.
Nobody brings a ranger to DPS because ranger DPS is simply bad, and most importantly ranger aoe/cleave is the worst in the game of the DPS specs.
If you make a ele for anything other than dps, you will be told to respec or gtfo. Because that’s what people expect eles to do. My statement was one of what people expect your character to be, not whether it had build diversity.
And I would argue ranger does have build diversity, but let’s stay on topic.
Plenty of eles running water staff, Nike from DnT even suggests it for a safe pug comp.
I mean, by your own logic, if I made a druid to wear anything but zerker or viper, I’d be told to regear or gtfo by optimal groups.
But that doesn’t happen, because the truth is most groups run magi/zealot druid even though they’re a waste of gear to carry failing groups in raid content where not a single fight requires anything below zerker or vipers.
Mesmer has one role and one role ever in any group content, or they get kicked. Trust me, they have it worse.
Yet they bring more in PvE mathematically, and I alone know of Burst Mesmer as well as Condi or Well bunker builds.
I played one, so I think we are only in kind of similar boat as mesmers. But they certainly don’t have it worse.
This is so wrong.
Optimal groups bring ONE mesmer. Optimal groups bring TWO druids and PS warriors. That alone tells you the strength of the buffs provided for a class that make some wanted to be stacked over others.
Nothing beats PS warrior in terms of group damage boost, and druid comes in second place.
I have seen many people go on about what is optimal for groups. I think what’s optimal depends on what the group is doing (to state the obvious).
I do know that because of wonky mechanics (the same issues our pets have with moving targets, shatters have with them too), mesmers come behind rangers on both power and condi dps (unless the target is highly mobile, then mesmer may do better on condi), heals, and most support/buffs. The alacrity and quickness of the mesmer is what gets them into groups (and portal helps too). That’s pretty much it. If your mes is spec for condi or dps or heals, you’re kick bait (unless playing with friends or guildies).
Note: I’m speaking about pve. I don’t do pvp or wvw, so no clue how things work out there.
Ranger I’ve done well with doing support, healing, and condi (usually a mix of the 3). I’ve never been kicked from a group. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but between these two classes, I know which one gets more traction in groups in my experience, and most other people who play both that I’ve talked to say the same thing.
Mesmer DPS is not low due to mechanics. It’s because their numbers are utter trash. They got among the lowest autoattack DPS in the game, their main class mechanic, shatters, is actually a DPS loss for anything but the new one as chrono. Phantasms are high cd despawning pets on target death that with a really low attack rate and scaling damage do pitiful DPS.
Mesmer DPS and ranger DPS are still quite far apart. They need far more DPS help than we do (and we do need it).
This is so wrong.
Optimal groups bring ONE mesmer. Optimal groups bring TWO druids and PS warriors. That alone tells you the strength of the buffs provided for a class that make some wanted to be stacked over others.
Nothing beats PS warrior in terms of group damage boost, and druid comes in second place.
That’s exactly the reason.
One mesmer can support more than 5 people with quickness and provides alacrity (not everyone benefits from it that much, only some classes need it).
You wouldn’t have brought 2 Rangers if 1/3 of what they bring would be a pointless overkill at a cost of low DPS.And some groups (non-hardcore groups) still bring 2 mesmers.
Which means 2 mesmers are still optimal. Not the top efficient but still very optimal.
It’s not that, it’s that after the alacrity nerf, a 2nd chrono is a DPS loss compared to just adding another tempest.
A chrono simply doesn’t add enough personal DPS to the group after 1 is there, unlike a druid who doesn’t see such harsh diminishing returns.
But by now I don’t think an olympics of crappiness is good for either rangers or mesmers. They’re both pigeonholed into crap DPS and just being buff bots.
(edited by Zenith.7301)
Unfortunately, Druid gives Rangers a reason for existing (as seen by many players). It is sad, but true. I don’t druid on either of my rangers, I personally don’t like the feel of it. I would rather heal on my tempest but not many ppl will give up the dps of a tempest of heals when there are bunches of druids around. Regarding raids, I fault both developers and players for designing very class specific groups. I am not talking builds. That’s a given in raids. Builds are tweaked. Heck, I tweak mine in dungeons sometimes. But when a boss requires a very specific set of classes in order to be beat, in order to beat that 10 min rage timer while doing the mechanics, there is a problem imo. Its either roll several different class, gear them all up (which, btw I do have) or gtfo, you will not raid. If all you have is a geared guardian, you will not raid. Thank you, enjoy your game. And that is what things like meta battle effectively state. That’s not good. But equally not good is when the devs design things requiring such.
But, I digress … Ranger dps is mediocre, tho it can be pretty good, depending on the player. You’ve got to get off that bow sometimes lol. But the main fault is it brings nothing to the group. The game is designed where other classes brings something else to the group. However, Anet does not make all support groups equal either. A DPS Ranger has Spotter. That’s about it. Meanwhile, perhaps do what I do. I have my chars that I play in certain areas (fractals, raids, dungeons, etc) and I play everything else in open world content and just enjoy myself. No one cares about what class your are playing in open world. BTW, condi rangers get little mention, which is a fail. Condi Rangers are pretty awesome.
Condi rangers are an inferior version of condi necro or engineer. They’re on the garbage heap with mesmers because condi ranger is limited to a single target with only Bonfire as cleave while both engineer and necromancer have massively higher aoe/cleave, and in the case of ranger the vast majority of his DPS comes from being in shotgun range of a target, unlike a necro or engineer who can deal with spread targets or do more efficient target switches.
The only reason people say condi ranger is strong, is because in comparison to the pitiful DPS of power builds it seems great since ranger conditions don’t pay a pet tax.
But in terms of damage delivery, ranger not only lags in single target, but it will never be a serious contender for DPS spots so long as it’s the class with the WORST AoE in the game. Yes, worse than even mesmer.
Pet improvement imo is the answer to a plethora of ranger specefic problems not druid. It would ofc buff druid if pets were to every get improved but in the long run would help rangers as a whole especially condi rangers that don’t utilize druid. Otherwise profession is fine
The only problem with buffing ranger dps in any fashion would be its effect on pvp. Since pvp determines the skills for pve, as Anet has lumped them both together now, the pvp community would not stand for rangers getting a dps increase imo. Condi warrior was kicking butt – gutted. Revenant hammer – neutered. The list goes on. So for now, I shall enjoy my Pew Pew in Open World content where no one cares what you are running.
The only problem with buffing ranger dps in any fashion would be its effect on pvp. Since pvp determines the skills for pve, as Anet has lumped them both together now, the pvp community would not stand for rangers getting a dps increase imo. Condi warrior was kicking butt – gutted. Revenant hammer – neutered. The list goes on. So for now, I shall enjoy my Pew Pew in Open World content where no one cares what you are running.
You could make this argument about mesmers who have crappy sustained dps in PvE but high burst damage in PvP. However, rangers have kitten dps in both game modes and are much easier to shut down.
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
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The only problem with buffing ranger dps in any fashion would be its effect on pvp. Since pvp determines the skills for pve, as Anet has lumped them both together now, the pvp community would not stand for rangers getting a dps increase imo. Condi warrior was kicking butt – gutted. Revenant hammer – neutered. The list goes on. So for now, I shall enjoy my Pew Pew in Open World content where no one cares what you are running.
You could make this argument about mesmers who have crappy sustained dps in PvE but high burst damage in PvP. However, rangers have kitten dps in both game modes and are much easier to shut down.
High burst in PvP eclipsed by thieves and revenants, who are also more mobile and survivable in their zerker specs.
Power shatter mesmers are pretty much extinct, and in WvW it’s mostly condi aids which by definition is not burst.
Mesmers are in the same DPS hole rangers are in.
And it’s because they’re pet classes and PvP people hate losing to pets, so the classes suffer.
That’s why I’d rather they buff ranger autoattacks and weaponskills rather than the pet, because if people get hit for 3k by a pet they’ll flood the forums in tears even though a daredevil just crit them before for 9k with a dodge.
Rangers are basically the mediocre version of every other class.
-Necro > Ranger – condi damage
-Ele > Ranger – Healing (and bull to anyone who’s says "No, wah, druid healing is better.)
-Dragon hunter > Ranger – Traps
-Revenant > Ranger – Boons
What we do have over other classes
-incompetent AI
-consistent nerfs
-consistent othere classes that visit ranger forms to make sure we don’t get any fixes
Etc
Add “United Chi” to your friends list or guild!
The only problem with buffing ranger dps in any fashion would be its effect on pvp. Since pvp determines the skills for pve, as Anet has lumped them both together now, the pvp community would not stand for rangers getting a dps increase imo. Condi warrior was kicking butt – gutted. Revenant hammer – neutered. The list goes on. So for now, I shall enjoy my Pew Pew in Open World content where no one cares what you are running.
You could make this argument about mesmers who have crappy sustained dps in PvE but high burst damage in PvP. However, rangers have kitten dps in both game modes and are much easier to shut down.
High burst in PvP eclipsed by thieves and revenants, who are also more mobile and survivable in their zerker specs.
Power shatter mesmers are pretty much extinct, and in WvW it’s mostly condi aids which by definition is not burst.
Mesmers are in the same DPS hole rangers are in.
And it’s because they’re pet classes and PvP people hate losing to pets, so the classes suffer.
That’s why I’d rather they buff ranger autoattacks and weaponskills rather than the pet, because if people get hit for 3k by a pet they’ll flood the forums in tears even though a daredevil just crit them before for 9k with a dodge.
Lol I was just working on a dodge damage build…
But yeah, even the mesmer burst is easy to avoid, and the condi is generally garbage. I don’t play pvp, but I have seen more people have problems with ranger than mesmer. just my observation of posts in all 9 profession threads. shrug
Edit: but this is way off topic. The thing is this: This is the first elite spec, but not the last. Wait and see what other elite specs Anet comes up with. Once we have 3 to play around with, it will be a different ball game. Patience people.
2 more expansions for 2 more e-specs that would take another 3-4 years to happen just so the game can come into fruition 7 years after release… That’s a lot of patience.
PET PRECISION & DPS TESTS -OUTDATED-
Will update once Path of Fire releases.
Will update once Path of Fire releases.
snip…. I don’t play pvp, …snip… The thing is this: This is the first elite spec, but not the last. ..snip
First thing before drop that kind of absurd statements i would suggest you to play PvP.
Confusion will kill you almost instantly because the mesmer will condi you just for you hitting him. And now confusion is really broken because not only does damage over time, but skill activation means even the Autoattack, which is kinda wonky to stop in most ranger weapons and the mesmer is going to keep stacking tens of those.
So interminable amount of confusion stacks + 7 diferent clones +teleportation + invisibility make this class a pain in the butt and very strong in pvp in 1v1.
Bad theefs complain because you have to go extreme glass to kill them with the first RF. And that’s the only reason this forum is full of noobs complaining about the druid op or pets op.
Not that it should matter if Anet’s devs would have shown some respect for the costumers that use this class for anything else other than speedfarming openworld events.
Unfortunately simply they left the class to age too much with no real improvements or even any fix for the old bugs, and nerfing it even more with no other balance adjustments.
We have the perfect examples with S&R or Lunar Impact where the nerf in duration\range + CD is simply absurd (Although in case of lunar impact there is not other choice as the other skills in CA are simply bad).
Now i’m talking about PvP/wvw as that gamemodes is where it matters the skills to be useful and not have gamebreaking bugs. In Pve anything is fine, if your class is strong in pvp but not wanted in pve that Anet’s fault for not designing the content having in mind what each class can bring.
And i simply despise the idea of the ranger\druid to be only a healbot\buffbot with no choice to be anything else.
I wouldn’t count with any new spec at least in the next 2 years. So lest focus in getting at least the ranger to work in line with the rest.
snip…. I don’t play pvp, …snip… The thing is this: This is the first elite spec, but not the last. ..snip
First thing before drop that kind of absurd statements i would suggest you to play PvP.
I don’t play pvp. NOT: I haven’t played pvp. I said: I DON’T play. Also, if you read that entire sentence, not the parts you snipped out, I made it clear that I was going off of the observations made by multiple other people across all 9 profession forums, and sharing that observation. I personally have no particular stake in it, because I DON’T PLAY PVP!
So how is anything I said absurd? Picking and choosing what you respond to from my post, even from one sentence of my post, now that’s absurd.
Edit: Equally absurd is to build classes balanced around one gamemode (pvp), when there are 3. The only credible fix for this is splitting the skills. Whether or not Anet is likely to do this, that’s the only real fix for that problem. Suggesting changes to the skills, while some can possibly be balanced across all game modes, won’t fix a class for ALL gamemodes.
Original post was complaining about where ranger is going. Ranger isn’t going anywhere. The elite specs changed the balance of the game, because they are ELITE specs, and supposed to be more powerful than the base profession. Until we have more options for elite specs, the place of druid being healing/dps support isn’t going to change because that’s what druid is. If you don’t like it, stick to base ranger. No one is forcing anyone to play druid. And druid has a place in condi and power builds as well. You don’t have to use staff, and between Ancient Seeds and GotL you have two really good GM traits that are only DPS increasers. But whatever. Play what you want.
(edited by bearshaman.3421)
Chill out, I cut the comments just to leave the relevant part so no one has to read a wall text. You can go back to the original if you want to get the full context
I don’t play pvp. NOT: I haven’t played pvp. I said: I DON’T play...snip.. I made it clear that I was going off of the observations made by multiple other people across all 9 profession forums,..snip
For your affirmations you must have been out of any PvP arena for really long time. And again i am asking you to play PvP with a ranger and a druid before you share what you think is going on in PvP, which as this point is absurd and complete disconnected from the reality.
And as i told you in my last comment: Ranger is the only subforum were you can find a lot of comments by players that play other profession in pvpand they are sore because got rekt by a better and come here to complain when the ranger kill their theef or Ele. In other subforums they don’t have to deal with so much whining asking nerfs.
Again this shouldn’t be a problem is Anet wouldn’t have disregarded this class for so long and done their homework.
Edit: Equally absurd is to build classes balanced around one gamemode (pvp), when there are 3. The only credible fix for this is splitting the skills.
Actually although that could be a solution it won’t be for the ranger with Anet, as they have proven many times already they aren’t willing to balance and fix the ranger even just for one gamemode, PvP\wvw were this aspects from the game are the most important thing.
In any case Anet has stated they won’t do that. In my personal opinion if they balance first based of competitive games: WvW/PvP and then design and balance PvE around it everything would be better.
Original post was complaining about where ranger is going. Ranger isn’t going anywhere. ….snip
Original post is rightfully complaining about Anet forcing a role up to us, As the core ranger simply lacks so many things is not an actual choice in the actual power-creep that meant HoT. The core ranger simply lacks healing, mobility and cleanse so you are forced to one build only A pure zerker WS ranger. And even then our DPS won’t be a match for any other class.
Druid is nothing else than a healbot buffbot for Raids as it doesn’t have any other skills and core ranger is simply bad. As there are already many DPS test that show perfect Condi and Power ranger/druid DPS is the lowest for PvE.
Druid is a bad design choice in it’s actual design as you are forced by different mechanics in place, like the AF generation, to play bunker healbot.
..snip.. Ancient Seeds and GotL you have two really good GM traits that are only DPS increasers. But whatever. Play what you want.
Those 2 traits are really rubish in PvP \ WvW.
GotL is designed for our buffbot role in raids which if you would have played PvP recently you would know already. That’s why you won’t see it used like ever in PvP\wvw.
Ancient Seeds are mostly useless, one trick pony as you can get out from the roots just walking most of the time, if you are affected by swiftness the seeds are too slow to lock on you.
Any kind of Tp, blink or shadowstep will free you from those. A condition duration reduction of 20% will make you walk pass thru them.
Once cleanse and you are off. Many classes has applied an specific immobilise counter mechanics at the same level as projectile hate.
But if all fails with one AA from any weapon will kill the root. In WvW/PvP you won’t be able to successfully lock a target unless is a noob. Which happens more than you think. I never understood the roots mechanic as it can be ignored completely.
In my opinion roots should work as the DH LB5, you won’t be able to get out unless you kill the root. But well, another useless mechanic put in place for the ranger.
Play what you want.
That would be great, innit? But you are wrong there: playing druid forces you to play simpleton mindless healbot.
Playing Ele allows you to be a healbot, but also you can play as offensive role. Why rangers can’t have the same?
I can’t i sacrifice part of my heals to have better DPS? Or not to be forced into the staff? Or at least the staff not to suck so bad damage wise?
Definition of decent Ranger/Druid= a player that knows the class mechanic, has top tier gear, uses food, buffs the team, has two hands and some common sense.
I agree that Ranger/Druid needs a bit of lovin’, but then again, please excuse me if i do not see other classes doing any better.
And beside that, you are forgetting the most important aspect: The PLAYER!
No matter how much K dmg a player can dish out with his X attack, if it only happens one in a while and even the darn auto attack lands only once in a while because various reasons (like bad player, no clue about class, wrong positioning, etc), it is no match for decent ranged Ranger/Druid that can sustain a higher uptime on hitting the target.
I only tried briefly the raid. So no comment on that, but in Fractals at least, a decent ranged Ranger/Druid most likely will do more DPS than a melee class, only because of the uptime of the attacks.
I guess that bad reputation of Rangers/Druids as DPS is the direct result of people seeing the class as an easy to learn one, thus, most new players will roll a Ranger. Without any know how of the class, anyone will fail to be a decent DPS.
And on top of that, is just human nature to bash other classes, without any actual experience with the class.
I truly never felt the need to bash any other class, no matter how bad the payer is, because it is just that: A BAD player. Never wanted to come to forums and bash let’s say Revenants, who seem to die like flies in Fractals all the time. Never wanted to complain about several Elementalists who do Tier 4 with 0 (zero) AR and then complain about “why you are not rezzing me faster”?
Examples can continue, but again, what is the point? Is the player’s fault most of the time.
I have seen in both PvE and WvW/PvP very good Rangers that put to shame other more “good” classes. Conclusion? It is the man behind the keyboard most of the time and not the class.
Enough ranting.
I won’t bother replying cuz wall of text. I never said that what I posted is what I think as regards pvp. Exactly the opposite. I posted saying this is what other people have shared on the forums. I made a report, not stated an opinion. I know there are things in pvp that I don’t understand, nor do I claim to. I was just contributing to that aspect of the conversation with what I did know, and that was what others have said about it.
As far as being shoved into a healbot mode, I have never used druid as a healbot, nor felt pressured to do so. I imagine that might be the case for raids, but raids are about as intense as pve ever gets. Even in high level fractals there isn’t one build to rule them all. My stat set doesn’t have healing power in it. So, imho, unless you are doing raids, I don’t get this “we are only healbots” mentality. Maybe it’s a pvp thing, I don’t know.
Oh, and to clear this up, I have never done pvp. I am not a competitive gamer. Coop sure. But competitive isn’t my thing. Kudos to people who like it. More power to ya. I’ll be over here doing everything else.