Guild Wars 2

So, like suggested in the title, this is probably going to be a controversial thread but, I really hate the shortbow.

I don’t think it’s a bad weapon. I don’t think it’s a weak weapon. I think it’s a boring weapon, with poorly designed skill flow.

Individually, all of the skills are fairly decent, but when they are all on the same weapon, literally, the weapon is just an autoattacking weapon, which lacks the need for skill rotations, making all of the skills purely utility.

I hate it. It’s just very boring and very lacking in a game with lots of other weaponsets that have very interesting skill rotations to make the weapon fun.

I would argue the rangers mainhand sword suffers from the same issue as well. Autoattack for all of your damage, use your skills for utility.

Very very very boring and just overall poor weapon design.

Not saying the weapons aren’t effective, because they are very effective. And don’t get this confused with a nerf thread, this isn’t a nerf thread, this is a “please, make this weapon more interesting to use without nerfing it” thread.

Ok, let me take the other side. I love the design of the shortbow but find it a bit too weak.

Our key limitation is keeping you from closing the distance to us. Sure we have a leap back skill but not enough.

SB is actually more fun for me to play because I get so much benefit from flanking and trying to get around an enemy to keep up bleeds and extra damage is interesting. Long Bow feels a bit more passive in my opinion. Then I have to keep them from putting me into melee range. Pretty fun outside PvE..

In fact, I love that the shortbow is not just a “twitchy” type weapon.

This is a problem with the whole class. I would agree with you that the Sword and Shortbow are the worst of the bunch, but what’s gained by using the various skills of other weapons is largely underwhelming as well. This is why many people complain that this class is passive. There’s really no synergy or combo within each weapon or between weapon sets.

Longbow for example… you have a knockback but nothing to follow it up with. It’s purely a defensive ability. Rapid Fire does very little real damage compared to auto shot. It’s benefits are to put vulnerability on the target and to be used at min range. But why? What do you follow rapid fire with once you have vuln on the target? Same with Hunter’s Shot… a great skill that can be used in conjunction with remorseless which offers the weapon nothing because there’s no real burst available and no reason to reset opening strike. Longbow is just like Greatsword… it’s more of a support weapon than a primary weapon.

Axe also is mostly utility oriented. It has an AE shot that does low damage but bleeds (similar in effect to poison volley), it has a chill, which is powerful, but when all is said and done most of us look at it for the snaring and not the cooldown debuff. So it’s effectively the same thing as shortbow 4. Worse still is the fact that axe is so awful in damage it’s only really used as a condition weapon that overlaps so heavily with shortbow.

The whole class just doesn’t really ‘do’ anything.

Atherakhia.4086:

This is a problem with the whole class. I would agree with you that the Sword and Shortbow are the worst of the bunch, but what’s gained by using the various skills of other weapons is largely underwhelming as well. This is why many people complain that this class is passive. There’s really no synergy or combo within each weapon or between weapon sets.

Longbow for example… you have a knockback but nothing to follow it up with. It’s purely a defensive ability. Rapid Fire does very little real damage compared to auto shot. It’s benefits are to put vulnerability on the target and to be used at min range. But why? What do you follow rapid fire with once you have vuln on the target? Same with Hunter’s Shot… a great skill that can be used in conjunction with remorseless which offers the weapon nothing because there’s no real burst available and no reason to reset opening strike. Longbow is just like Greatsword… it’s more of a support weapon than a primary weapon.

Axe also is mostly utility oriented. It has an AE shot that does low damage but bleeds (similar in effect to poison volley), it has a chill, which is powerful, but when all is said and done most of us look at it for the snaring and not the cooldown debuff. So it’s effectively the same thing as shortbow 4. Worse still is the fact that axe is so awful in damage it’s only really used as a condition weapon that overlaps so heavily with shortbow.

The whole class just doesn’t really ‘do’ anything.

This post says it all. As much as Anet doesn’t want to admit it, they messed up majorly with the majority of this class. It needs a massive overhaul.

Two main reasons I don’t use it, boring and weak (for how I like to play). I don’t enjoy battles of attrition.

im leaning more toward liking the SB than hating it. in fact i designed an entire build around it before the QZ and range nerfs, and it was quite effective.

i dont think the SB is boring, and here’s why:
- #3 is reactive, very fun skill to use, very rewarding
- #4 is a spammable cripple that is essential if you wanna kite
- flanking to maximize dps
- #5 is also very much about timing, also very fun to use

the SB is missing SOMETHING and in my opinion, it’s a better #2 skill and more interesting autoattack. the current ones are utter trash.

I loved the Sb pre-range nerf. Now it’s mostly something I just whip out to mix it up once and a while.

Now it’s nothing but “900 is too short to keep them CC down and killed before they get away” or " kitten, if I’m gonna be this close I might as well just use 1hsword."

Actually, let me try to rework what I was trying to get at with the OP.

I hate that the shortbow is designed around the autoattack being the main source of damage.

I love the flanking mechanic and I would love the shortbow if the rest of the skills weren’t just utility skills.

What I’m saying I think the weapon is lacking is some sort of skill that gets added to the sustain you get from autoattacking to either do a few larger increments of damage or a rapid number of hits with a higher damage coefficient than just the autoattack.

For instance, the greatsword (with Moment of Clarity) has a nice rotation of using GS 5 into G2 2. The longbow (with Remorseless) has a nice rotation of using LB 3 into LB 4. The Mainhand Axe can rotate Axe 3 to chill and close distance and then Axe 2 to burst a bunch of bleeds onto a target.

And then we get to shortbow and sword, and their autoattacks are literally self sustaining in terms of DPS, which drastically reduces how “active” you feel like you are playing your character.

I’m not saying that they are terrible weapons, I’m asking that maybe give the shortbow the engineer pistol treatment (using pistol 2 on cooldown and its very nice DPS increase over the Autoattack) so that using shortbow 2 actually increases DPS. I don’t actually have a suggestion for the sword, the skills on the mainhand are actually very decent, it’s just a shame that it takes such a low amount of APM (actions per minute) that it makes you feel inactive as a player.

RyuDragnier.9476:

This post says it all. As much as Anet doesn’t want to admit it, they messed up majorly with the majority of this class. It needs a massive overhaul.

yes, a massive overhaul indeed.

I like the SB but I would say that #2 and #4 could use buffing/changing.

The #3 is awesome and #5 (despite having a long CD for such a short stun) is a ranged interupt so who can complain with that.

The #2 is pretty poor though and #4 is OK but the cripple seems too short duration and it could use some extra effect (yes I know it makes pet attacks bleed, which isnt great).

It would be cool if the #2 attack fanned out but then curved back in on the target, so all the shots hit your main target. Maybe move the cripple to the #2 as well and then make a totally new #4… That would make me happy

I choose sb axe/torch for my condi build. I’m wishing I would have choosen sword/dagger instead of SB because I find myself hardly ever using it.

Short bow needs some love, but not necessarily more love than a lot of other things with the class. Overall, I like how it plays in that it requires positioning and crippling to be effective. In short, the bow needs more ability to play “keep away” with the enemy given the mediocre range. It could use help in the following ways:

1) SB1 could provide bleeds 50% of time from front and 100% from flank/rear
2) SB2 should be like rapid fire and designed to blast a single target 5x with a much longer poison. Spreads are meh.
3) Quick shot would be even more interesting if it put us in stealth for even a short time so we could use remorselessness and lose being targeted.
4) Crippling shot should add 3 bleeds of its own vs just relying on the pet or have the cripple increase to 6 seconds as this is a complete attrition weapon.
5) Concussion shot should also give you quickness. You slow the enemy down and then have speed to get into and stay in flanking position.

That would lead to a 4 (cripple) 2 (poison and burst) 5 (daze and get quickness to flank) combo.

It’s a PvE problem more than a weapon problem. The community has reduced the endgame to berserker skill 1 spamming on ALL classes, and if Anet adds anything that changes that, people flip out and say the content is too hard and only caters to the elites.

Use the ranger weapons in PvP and they become much more fun. Critical even. You’ll be screaming at your monitor for your skills to recharge quicker because you need them right now.

With the exception of class’ bunkers builds. Those are just dull. Like the spirits skill 1 SB build. Ugh. Get rid of capture points.

Yeah, part of the problem Fluffball is that you have part of the population that enjoys PvE and, therefore, wants a challenge and the other part that enjoys the story somewhat but wants to get it over with quickly so they can go back to WvW and sPvP. I fall in the latter but respect the former. So, part of the population will cringe at raids or time sink PvE. Using a few combinations would be nice though but making it a giant mind puzzle of what combination, when, and how to build the team type bosses gets old when you just don’t PvE much and has as much appeal as the idea of a jumping puzzle.

Fluffball.8307:

It’s a PvE problem more than a weapon problem. The community has reduced the endgame to berserker skill 1 spamming on ALL classes, and if Anet adds anything that changes that, people flip out and say the content is too hard and only caters to the elites.

Use the ranger weapons in PvP and they become much more fun. Critical even. You’ll be screaming at your monitor for your skills to recharge quicker because you need them right now.

With the exception of class’ bunkers builds. Those are just dull. Like the spirits skill 1 SB build. Ugh. Get rid of capture points.

ultimately, the real problems are poor profession designs, the turtle paced % reshuffling “improvement” philosophy and the continued band aid use on gushing wounds.

the overall profession designs are gimmicky and limited, and that needs to be seriously addressed if this game wants to have a solid foundation. Professions and combat are the most important aspect of this game, but sadly these two areas happen to be the most neglected by the development team.

Cufufalating.8479:

I like the SB but I would say that #2 and #4 could use buffing/changing.

The #3 is awesome and #5 (despite having a long CD for such a short stun) is a ranged interupt so who can complain with that.

The #2 is pretty poor though and #4 is OK but the cripple seems too short duration and it could use some extra effect (yes I know it makes pet attacks bleed, which isnt great).

It would be cool if the #2 attack fanned out but then curved back in on the target, so all the shots hit your main target. Maybe move the cripple to the #2 as well and then make a totally new #4… That would make me happy

I don’t know if this is what you meant exactly by your suggestion for shortbow 2, but it gave me this idea that I think would be really cool;

What if the shortbow 2 was changed so that it would fan out then oscillate back in and out? Like, imagine the middle arrow staying linear, and then the other 2 on either side fanning out, then curving back in to meet the middle arrow, and the back out, etc.

Rename the skill from poison volley to serpents shot, and if you wanna be really fancy, add a snake animation on the bow when the arrows are being shot out.

I think that’s immediately a more interesting skill. Then for my personal liking, up the base damage so that the 5 shots hit together for a total of 100 more base damage than the autoattack (right now the difference between the base attacks is 134 crossfire, 170 poison volley). I would be even happier if each individual arrow was given a base damage of 67 though (334 total, each arrow hits for half of what crossfires base is).

No ideas for shortbow 4. Just that it needs to be something more than “just another arrow skill.”

I hate the shortbow personally but I carry it anyway because it’s the weapon I create bloodlust stacks with. The longbow isn’t any better in my opinion, and the only reason I carry that is because I like barrage (even despite the big damage nerf).

Longbow autoshot does not do enough damage; Rapid fire does even worse damage than auto shot (this should at least be doubled. I like the stealth skill of 3. I think the cooldown is too long on 4. Barrage needs it’s damage returned to normal; and we should be able to move while casting it.. or at least make it instantaneous and lower the cool down.

In my perfect world, the shortbow would be eliminated and the Longbow would take on the speed and characteristics of the Shortbow.

Skill 1 – same damage except its the speed of the shortbow and causes vulnerability
Skill 2 – would be a rapid fire spread shot that (like sb) but causes poison
Skill 3 – I think it should stay as is, it’s fine
Skill 4 – The knockback also causes cripple once they get up
Skill 5 – Barrage now interrupts every 3rd pulse and cripples every pulse.

Give that to the Ranger, and they will be in much better shape than they are now.

I have this issue with the sword and the bows as well, sort of, but i disagree that all weapons suffer like this. Greatsword is a good example of a weapon that actually has useful skills and flow, but it just suffers in damage values.

I do fully agree though that weapons based purely on auto damage is very boring, especially if your utilities has long cds. I think it’s also unreasonable to expect every weapon to have skill flow across 5 abilities (except in a perfect world perhaps) but I do think it’s nice if like 3 of the skills including #1 is used for combat damage and 2 is utility, or something like that. But as long as the flow is there, it matters less – Sword is still pretty fun to use because you can at least have a choice in utility with the offhand pick.

I don’t have much issue at all with the SB. It’s just a get away with #3 and then AA weapon for me until I can get back in the thick with the sword.

A 2 handed weapon needs to have enough legitimate uses to last till you can swap back to another weapon set. The shortbow does not. There is no flow.

As long as “balance” passes are made based on PvP, any post or thread is totally pointless in regards to PvE.