Guild Wars 2

I understand why scrubs over-react to power ranger.

I roam alot with my power ranger. When I roam in t1 EB, most of the roamers that dare to roam are quite tough. They can negate the initial burst and gap close me and try to land all the soft cc on me (chill or cripple or immobile) so I can’t run. If I let them do that to me, it’s pretty much game. Condition necro, contrary to popular belief, are one of the biggest counters of power ranger. All they need to do is land one chill on me so I cant run, then they can safely chain CC me to death. Condition War and Zerk Mediation Guardian are also extremely tough match-up because they have infinite gap closer, lots of soft CC, and too many ways to negate my damage completely for quite awhile. (Guardian can blind, immob, block, invulnerable to waste my burst then burst me down, War can gap close me with 1-h sword, negate my CC with balance stance, and tank my damage very well) Thief can take advantage of stealth and easily gap close me and burst me down first, and spam dodges while dps me up front. Condition engineer has 1 reflect, 1~2 blocks to completely negate my burst, outrun me with rocket shoe and permanent swiftness, and can quickly melt me down with confusion and other dot. Those are all hard counter to power ranger, that I need to use my pet and positioning very effectively in order to beat them.

On the other hand, when I leave T1 EB and go to places like Eotm, which is the regular scrubs gathering place, I suddenly find 99% of targets are easy preys that either has no defense, or doesn’t dodge, doesn’t block, doesn’t gap close at all (Even gold ranks are scrubs in Eotm). I kill most of them so fast and so easily, that I almost feel like I’m in a totally different world. Then I realize that those are the “general public” that usually post those QQ threads about ranger being too OP, because in Eotm, I sure am OP as hell. But in truth, it just reveals the incompetent of this “general public”, that have no awareness of how to fight in WvW. When put my ranger in a T1 environment, I’m nowhere close to OP. So many other roaming specs can melt me down if I’m not careful, or not using every advantages that I possibly have as a ranger.

So my conclusion is this: If you really want to QQ about ranger, you should go try one yourself, and try to solo que in SPVP, or try to roam SOLO in a T1 environment. Then you will realize ranger is nowhere close to OP.

I bet after I leave for today’s Eotm, some more QQers are gonna post here again, crying about how they got spiked by me from 1600 range in 2.5 seconds and ask for a ranger nerf. (Yesterday I one vs. six and win in Eotm. 5 uplevels and one PLATINUM rank player". They jumped me when I try to cap regenerator camp. I still managed to make my distance and kill all of them. I can lose duel many times during my T1 EB roaming against regular silver rank people)

pew pew

The reason is actually more complex and simple.

For a normal healthy 16- casual player, the normal thought process goes something like this:
What happened? (I died) – How did it happen? (I got killed) – Who was the one who killed me? (A ranger) – What was the way he killed me? (A longbow burst) – What could I do to avoid it? (50 ways of grey) – What did I actually do? (nothing, really) – Will I do something in the future? (Nah, sounds like a lot of work) – What is easier than that? (come to the forum section and b*tch a little about it)

And there you go. Problem analyzed. Nothing wrong about it. It’s actually pretty easily understandable.

Tragic Positive.9356:

The reason is actually more complex and simple.

For a normal healthy 16- casual player, the normal thought process goes something like this:
What happened? (I died) – How did it happen? (I got killed) – Who was the one who killed me? (A ranger) – What was the way he killed me? (A longbow burst) – What could I do to avoid it? (50 ways of grey) – What did I actually do? (nothing, really) – Will I do something in the future? (Nah, sounds like a lot of work) – What is easier than that? (come to the forum section and b*tch a little about it)

And there you go. Problem analyzed. Nothing wrong about it. It’s actually pretty easily understandable.

Though I think the age is abit bias, I do agree some people tend to have this type of thinking processing. When I got spiked by thief from nowhere, or fail to dodge one chill from necro and got completely pwned, or fell to a mediation guardian, I wouldn’t think they’re op, I’d think that I should be more careful next time, and learn what type of distance I need to make, what sort of trick does he usually use, so I may beat him next time.

(For example, I see many clever necro use spectral walk very strategically when fighting me. They’d use it and pretend to run from me, then when I get close to his marked location, he’d suddenly appear right beside, making me lose all the advantages and becomes his domain of fighting area. So next time when I meet him I will be extra careful when I see him start using spectual walk )

@Aomine
The age was not really an offense. It was the statistics.
After the age of 16, a regular guy starts to see the environment in a way of “what is he capable of changing”.

Of course there are people who will get to that point earlier, just as people who will never achieve that point. It’s just a generalization that was meant to say that it’s perfectly normal for an average teenage guy to think that way.

I think that for most people, they aren’t able to step outside their anecdote to analyze the scope of the issue that their anecdotal evidence may exist within.

The only time I have a problem with that is when other players start to constructively aid that person by pouring over the details of the situation and trying to figure how to frame the scenario and come to a conclusion so that the scope of the situation can be framed, only for that person to get hostile and refute all incoming advice and evidence because of the “I said it, so its right” attitude they are unwilling to forego.

That in turn makes everybody hostile, and any chance at a constructive analysis of a situation that could turn into is lost.

There are so few people willing to step outside of their own little gameplay bubble and go “what could I have done differently” before they start screaming “things need to be different” that it’s mind boggling.

What we need to at least start doing is stop grabbing the torches and pitchforks every time somebody screams “broken, OP, nerf” and give them a chance at reasoning it out with us (or other people). Some people are actually legitimately clueless, and although it is tedious to have to say the same thing over and over and over again, that’s more the lack of third party resources and information’s fault, and while it probably shouldn’t be our burden to inform people, the more people that we actually can get to reason with us, the better it is both for the ranger subforum and the community as a whole (because only a few individuals saying something is OP over and over because we nipped the rest in the bud is better than a whole mob of people overpowering our voices shouting OP, wrongly, but loudly).

I think it’s pretty funny tho how they QQ so much about longbow rangers yet almost the majority who complain aren’t even good at their main classes.

If people would play this spec at high pvp level they would know it’s not as easy as they think it is to stay alive.

On another note, I do think I’m OP on power ranger because I know what I’m doing.

Skullface.7293:

I think it’s pretty funny tho how they QQ so much about longbow rangers yet almost the majority who complain aren’t even good at their main classes.

Actually, this is absolutely true. I main a Guardian since launch and those forums can be pretty caustic as well. Lots of Guardians on both sides of the fence saying how broke they are wishing they are Elementals with a few saying you know, the Guardian isn’t all that bad. Not perfect mind you, but in a good spot regardless of traits (outside conditions).

I only bring this up because there are a few Guardian players I’ve read over time and to some degree even played with out in WvW who are just that much better than the average Joe. I’m serious because I’m seeing the same thing in this forum with Rangers.

There are people that just play the game better then the rest of us. Since when does that make a class OP? Or, since when does it give one the right to say such?

Not to be condescending…but what did you expect from EOTM? Most people are there to k-train, not to 1v1 you.

As for regular BL, I’m not sure the T1 correlates to skill. I for one would not want to be on T1, as to me it is just a lot of bandwagoners that want to ‘win’. You can find skilled roamers in any tier.

Finally, ranger is still the most underpowered and broken class in the game. To prove it, name a class that does not have a build better than any ranger build. By ‘better’ I mean one that will not objectively win in a situation with two equal opponents and where the ranger slips even slightly in focus.

Have to say I agree with Gotejj. I’ve never found any correlation because a servers rank / tier and the skill on the players on it.

Some servers seem to have more of certain types of roamers, such as an unusuall high number or thieves, or more group roamers than solo, so something… but skill wise, I see no overall difference.

And yeah, EotM isn’t a real map. 80% of the people are uplevels there to train, the other 20% are people there to boost their ego or just have some fun killing the uplevels. Noone is actually there for a serious fight.

Gotejjeken.1267:

Not to be condescending…but what did you expect from EOTM? Most people are there to k-train, not to 1v1 you.

As for regular BL, I’m not sure the T1 correlates to skill. I for one would not want to be on T1, as to me it is just a lot of bandwagoners that want to ‘win’. You can find skilled roamers in any tier.

Finally, ranger is still the most underpowered and broken class in the game. To prove it, name a class that does not have a build better than any ranger build. By ‘better’ I mean one that will not objectively win in a situation with two equal opponents and where the ranger slips even slightly in focus.

I mentioned about Eotm not to brag, but to demonstrate about how the communities have the impression of ranger being OP. Because in regular areas I do not find ranger to be OP at all, but only in Eotm that I’m OP as hell. So I’m assuming most of those ranger’s QQers are from Eotm.

Also, I do have to apologize about underestimate other tiers, but I looked at many you-tube streamers and find their opponents are often very new, low rank, or just plain incompetent. My knowledge of tier strength are only from T2 and T1. In comparison I do find T1 alot harder to win a duel. (Also T1 tends to roam in 3~5, so it’s an entire different story against those guild group..)

jcbroe.4329:

I think that for most people, they aren’t able to step outside their anecdote to analyze the scope of the issue that their anecdotal evidence may exist within.

The only time I have a problem with that is when other players start to constructively aid that person by pouring over the details of the situation and trying to figure how to frame the scenario and come to a conclusion so that the scope of the situation can be framed, only for that person to get hostile and refute all incoming advice and evidence because of the “I said it, so its right” attitude they are unwilling to forego.

That in turn makes everybody hostile, and any chance at a constructive analysis of a situation that could turn into is lost.

There are so few people willing to step outside of their own little gameplay bubble and go “what could I have done differently” before they start screaming “things need to be different” that it’s mind boggling.

What we need to at least start doing is stop grabbing the torches and pitchforks every time somebody screams “broken, OP, nerf” and give them a chance at reasoning it out with us (or other people). Some people are actually legitimately clueless, and although it is tedious to have to say the same thing over and over and over again, that’s more the lack of third party resources and information’s fault, and while it probably shouldn’t be our burden to inform people, the more people that we actually can get to reason with us, the better it is both for the ranger subforum and the community as a whole (because only a few individuals saying something is OP over and over because we nipped the rest in the bud is better than a whole mob of people overpowering our voices shouting OP, wrongly, but loudly).

very well said , unlike the other class fourms we will explain how things work to prevent this snowball of rage ultimately could lead to misinterpretation and again more unneeded downgrading of weaponskills and utilities.

it is chinese whispers one person says one thing and it spreads or snowballs through out the whole community untill we see nothing but uninformed players not having fun while playing the game, and the extra knowledge we give helps a lot of those players and the devs by not giving any misinterpretation becuase of personal opions about said class.

and i do beleive the lack of information out there apart from meta battle which i find quite useless :p for exploring different builds.

its the misinterpretation of the class and lack of information that lead to this lack of knowledge about rangers because it snowballed all those years ago so players did not create guides or videos like the other classes untill recently and that those videos are in near full detail.

our guides are much more complex for a normal player to understand so yes we have to prevent the snowballing to better improve the misinterpretation the community has learned since the nurfs of after release, its stuck like glue, it must go for the sake of improvement and understanding to create a better game experience.

Aomine.5012:

Also, I do have to apologize about underestimate other tiers, but I looked at many you-tube streamers and find their opponents are often very new, low rank, or just plain incompetent. My knowledge of tier strength are only from T2 and T1. In comparison I do find T1 alot harder to win a duel. (Also T1 tends to roam in 3~5, so it’s an entire different story against those guild group..)

You see a lot of low rank players in those youtube videos because they are free bags. It looks good to be able to 1v5 a group, never mind the fact 2 are uplevels and the rest are invaders.
It’s been about a year since I’ve played on a T1 server but since then I have played in every tier except for T2 and I have found the skill level of solo roamers actually increases as you go down in tiers. There are always going to be a handful of exceptional roamers in every tier but the average skill level in bronze tends to be higher.

On the other hand group fighting skills tend to increase as you move up.

Take the high level pvp players who don’t stream, post videos, or browse the forums. These guys are next level on their classes but a wvw player will never get to see the amazing things they pull off and therefore will think that their experience is representative of everyone.

It is an information issue. If GW2 had a lolking or an op.gg we would see a lot less whine as people could see directly the factual performance of each build/class etc.

Edit: phone too hard

Congretz for honest realistic topic, finally someone that actually made this in fair way.
People will still go full kittened on this topic, because EOTM, but as you’ve said, once you get to the point where people know the game, know the class and their enemy, then ranger is no where near OP, specially not LB ranger. I also find GS rangers easy to kill, much harder to deal with is what i play LB+s/d or LB+s/a.

People have to learn t he game, and see for them selves why some things work out and some don’t, I have 1,4k on ranger, and i’m still learning new things every day because people are creative, and you’ll always have challenge. And what people forget the most, every class has its counter.

I couldn’t do it, but I respect the hell out of you guys. I don’t have that type of patience to hold the hands of plebs who refuse to listen to any logic and keep to the same rhetoric. I do understand the benefits of it though and will defer unless something really irks me.

Aomine.5012:

But in truth, it just reveals the incompetent of this “general public”, that have no awareness of how to fight

I’ve often said that it reveals quite a bit of your own skill with what you complain about being OP on the forums. The exact word I used was incompetent to describe thieves who get caught by RF when stealthing up.

Puck.9612:

Aomine.5012:

Also, I do have to apologize about underestimate other tiers, but I looked at many you-tube streamers and find their opponents are often very new, low rank, or just plain incompetent. My knowledge of tier strength are only from T2 and T1. In comparison I do find T1 alot harder to win a duel. (Also T1 tends to roam in 3~5, so it’s an entire different story against those guild group..)

You see a lot of low rank players in those youtube videos because they are free bags. It looks good to be able to 1v5 a group, never mind the fact 2 are uplevels and the rest are invaders.
It’s been about a year since I’ve played on a T1 server but since then I have played in every tier except for T2 and I have found the skill level of solo roamers actually increases as you go down in tiers. There are always going to be a handful of exceptional roamers in every tier but the average skill level in bronze tends to be higher.

On the other hand group fighting skills tend to increase as you move up.

Very much this. I’ve found that the best roamers are often on the lowest tiers because there is usually no blob support and thus it is their only play option.

T2 is awkward atm because it’s both blob-centric but also lacks skilled roamers/suffers from population problems which prevents them from ascending. If anything I’d argue the roaming is the worst here, as there are rarely good havoc groups and the blobs are still usually big enough to bulldoze objectives uncontested or with limited resistance due to population imbalances and lack of multiple skilled guild groups.

There are a lot of dumb players out there. Rangers and not rangers equivalently. Yesterday we made a little fun with some friends. An other ranger and I standed on the big rock front of the tower of the bottom left while the other dudes sieged the tower. Players (mostly thieves) came one by one and tryed to pass. Noone noticed us, no one dodged, they just ran. We bursted down everyone.
I think most of the players have tube vision. You can see the thieves after they backstabed you but rangers mostly out of there tunel.

I wholeheartedly agree with you OP, although I don’t know that them playing LB in PvP will change their perception much. If they don’t know how PvP works, they’ll hotjoin, +1 a bunch of fights and get a bunch of "kills"* and think they’re doing anything. On the other hand, no one wants these buffoons in ranked, which would be the best place to show them power LB isn’t OP.

Anywho, on the day the RF buff came out I volunteered to duel anyone who wanted to use a power LB and show them the weakenesses, but no one ever took me up on it. These kinds of people are not interesting in learning. The truly average player just hops on his ranger, sees what all the fuss is about, and doesn’t whine to random strangers. LB complainers are outliers.

*Fun fact: One of my first ever PvP games on a ranger shortly after launch, I took LB/SB and racked up like 28 kills. How many of them did I cause? I dunno, maybe 1?

I get a lot more Q_Qers playing my Regen Ranger than I do playing my PewPew Ranger.

Power Ranger they have a CHANCE to win… Against a Regen Ranger theres no chance of winning 1v1. 1k HP a second, 3.3k Armor. almost 50% protection up time. That’s a lot more thrustrating than any PewPew Ranger

I use ranger for the hilt bash. I just love the animation.

I find it funny when rangers join your party and tell you that you are bad and they where wrecking you in 1v1. Keep in mind im a d/d ele and the fight pretty much consisted of him using rapid fire and entangle/f2 immobalize.

DancinPuppeh.8421:

I get a lot more Q_Qers playing my Regen Ranger than I do playing my PewPew Ranger.

Power Ranger they have a CHANCE to win… Against a Regen Ranger theres no chance of winning 1v1. 1k HP a second, 3.3k Armor. almost 50% protection up time. That’s a lot more thrustrating than any PewPew Ranger

1k HP a sec? Is that perma regen or only while you have troll unguent up? If it’s perma I would really like to see that build because I pretty much max out at 500 before I start sacrificing all my damage.

Puck.9612:

DancinPuppeh.8421:

I get a lot more Q_Qers playing my Regen Ranger than I do playing my PewPew Ranger.

Power Ranger they have a CHANCE to win… Against a Regen Ranger theres no chance of winning 1v1. 1k HP a second, 3.3k Armor. almost 50% protection up time. That’s a lot more thrustrating than any PewPew Ranger

1k HP a sec? Is that perma regen or only while you have troll unguent up? If it’s perma I would really like to see that build because I pretty much max out at 500 before I start sacrificing all my damage.

with 1.2k healing power regen and the signet should only heal for about 400 a second. the heal will heal about 10k hp over a 25 second time frame. Factor in the heal and the regen over 25 seconds it averages to healing about 800 per second. Other factors to include of course is dodging.