Guild Wars 2

Yes you can’t throw them anymore, i thought this would ruin the set for me but i think that it has opened the door to a really fun playstyle of condi/survival/ trap bunker. Incidentally I’m finding this is working out really effective in solo queue games, with the exception of some guardians.

I would reccomend people give it the benefit of the doubt and try it out.

Silver linings and all that.

The only useful trap is spike, pairing with an interrupt build.

GS (2 potential interrupts) / Shortbow (#5) / Taunt on pet f2 / Spike Trap / Nightmare runes .. Paired with quick draw puts your concussion shot untraited from 25 seconds to 7-8 seconds… Allows for alot of interrupts.

Other than that, traps are utter kitten.

Super situational too and relies on playing against melee only specs that need to be on you now , a class that can kite (mesmer for example) will not be affected by your traps at all because you have to be on them in order to do anything to them.

A rare, but good situation against a guardian could be using spike trap on their shelter heal because of the unblockable aspect but again, you need to be on them to do this and it has added time dropping the trap too now.

depending on your distance from your target you can either close in (like melee’ers do) or fall back ranged classes will follow and walk into your traps.

You have weapons. Traps are not the only source of your damage.

They’re not any source of dmg, and definitely not enough to justify using up utility slots especially since you can’t throw them… Even being able to throw the traps, they were still bad… Now there’s really no point at all to use any other trap except maybe spike.

^youre sounding like a broken record. ran into a couple of very good trapper rangers, you can actually be really survivable while slotting 2 traps. 0/6/6/6/0 is quite strong.

I have only dabbled a bit with the traps but I’m having a tough time justifying them over the amazing survival skills that cleanse 2 condis and provide fury. Which 2 do you use? Burning and spike?

me? for traps, id run http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-JFk73;1Fky-t2JEF-0;9k2D;1Z_a;0256137237;4U-H7V;1fgm9fgm92T

it’s pretty strong, haven’t tested it enough as ive been too busy with my power build. but if youre going traps, I can confirm with complete certainty that you cannot run BM instead of the NM line, you simply wont have enough survivability. or maybe if ure amazing u can make it work. beastly warden is truly a game changer though

thing about the frost trap is that it’s pretty effective at shutting down an area, the chill stacks are deadly. so if u can do without the extra burning, id use that. poison trap as well would have quit a bit of utility.

the thing they need to do ASAP is increase bonfire’s range back to 240. they have to, have to, have to do it.

Why do you use flametrap? it brings only 1/3 of bonfire’s damage, both power and condi. The only benefits are a bigger AoE and slightly less cooldown.

Trait -50% incoming damage deleted too?

I just tried traps in spvp. They are really good when fighting on point. Throw in some spike trap, then bonfire + flame trap.

Wuselknusel.4082:

Why do you use flametrap? it brings only 1/3 of bonfire’s damage, both power and condi. The only benefits are a bigger AoE and slightly less cooldown.

uh more burn stacks I suppose? bonfire is so bad now with the reduced range. hopefully they revert this change.

You have to actually treat them like traps now. You can’t throw traps at your opponents — that’s rediculous — rather, you jave to coax your foes into them. If you are on-point, and a ranged enemy starts pewpewing you, just retreat off-point until they get just near-over your traps, then advance. And set them in different places on-point every victory so the enemy doesn’t know where/when to dodge.

Here’s the problem with traps, even before this update; if any decent opponent sees you use them, you will never hit them with a trap. They will just outrange you or dodge through them to trigger and avoid them entirely.

It’s literally the same exact issue a bomb kit engi has, which is why bomb kit hasn’t been an optimal choice since around the same time traps stopped being optimal (aka both of the builds utilizing them fell out of popular usage).

Now, that isn’t to say you can’t make them work. I’d say that playing a set designed to stay within range like Axe/Dagger Sword/Torch compliments traps well. Problem is that, again, against any decent opponent you’ll have to be super aggressive and intelligent with trap usage so that the opponent can’t just avoid or evade them entirely.

jcbroe.4329:

Here’s the problem with traps, even before this update; if any decent opponent sees you use them, you will never hit them with a trap. They will just outrange you or dodge through them to trigger and avoid them entirely.

It’s literally the same exact issue a bomb kit engi has, which is why bomb kit hasn’t been an optimal choice since around the same time traps stopped being optimal (aka both of the builds utilizing them fell out of popular usage).

Now, that isn’t to say you can’t make them work. I’d say that playing a set designed to stay within range like Axe/Dagger Sword/Torch compliments traps well. Problem is that, again, against any decent opponent you’ll have to be super aggressive and intelligent with trap usage so that the opponent can’t just avoid or evade them entirely.

True. But then you can start spacing them out so dodging 1 doesn’t dodge them all. And even if they do dodge 1 or 2 — there goes his endurance — gg. Just have to take advantage of he/she being unable to dodge further.

Razor.9872:

jcbroe.4329:

Here’s the problem with traps, even before this update; if any decent opponent sees you use them, you will never hit them with a trap. They will just outrange you or dodge through them to trigger and avoid them entirely.

It’s literally the same exact issue a bomb kit engi has, which is why bomb kit hasn’t been an optimal choice since around the same time traps stopped being optimal (aka both of the builds utilizing them fell out of popular usage).

Now, that isn’t to say you can’t make them work. I’d say that playing a set designed to stay within range like Axe/Dagger Sword/Torch compliments traps well. Problem is that, again, against any decent opponent you’ll have to be super aggressive and intelligent with trap usage so that the opponent can’t just avoid or evade them entirely.

True. But then you can start spacing them out so dodging 1 doesn’t dodge them all. And even if they do dodge 1 or 2 — there goes his endurance — gg. Just have to take advantage of he/she being unable to dodge further.

See, what I was hoping for is that arming time referred to a period of time traps could be stood on before then activating. That would have been the most ideal change to the way traps arm imo. That way, people would have less opportunity to activate traps at the outer edge, and pets/clones wouldn’t instantly set off traps when they touch them.

It would make dodge rolling through them not necessarily a counterplay anymore, and people would have to be much smarter about their positioning and more aware of your actions as a trap ranger.

As it is, I’m just seeing traps right now as having all the same problems as before the patch, with the additional problem of not being able to throw them on a team fight and nuke areas with traps, which actually made them more situation applicable than they are now.

Its such a mixed bag for me personally, because I want to like them, but against a good player, especially who’s playing a class that doesn’t have to enter your trap range, it feels like a very limited, uphill battle.

Anyone know with HS being a trap now, Shouldn’t it proc stealth when running Trapper Runes?
A bug maybe?

jcbroe.4329:

See, what I was hoping for is that arming time referred to a period of time traps could be stood on before then activating. That would have been the most ideal change to the way traps arm imo. That way, people would have less opportunity to activate traps at the outer edge, and pets/clones wouldn’t instantly set off traps when they touch them.

It would make dodge rolling through them not necessarily a counterplay anymore, and people would have to be much smarter about their positioning and more aware of your actions as a trap ranger.

As it is, I’m just seeing traps right now as having all the same problems as before the patch, with the additional problem of not being able to throw them on a team fight and nuke areas with traps, which actually made them more situation applicable than they are now.

Its such a mixed bag for me personally, because I want to like them, but against a good player, especially who’s playing a class that doesn’t have to enter your trap range, it feels like a very limited, uphill battle.

The arming time is just so that they behave and are used like traps, not grenades. It’s intended to make them worse, not better. You do give me an idea though. My biggest issue with spike trap is that it’s an AoE knockdown that’ll probably only ever hit one person. This could be solved if what traps trigger on changed, my idea being as soon as a target in the trigger radius stops moving closer to the center, the trap triggers. Whether they run right through the middle or clip the edge they’ll still get caught, but now a well placed spike trap would catch entire teams.

jcbroe.4329:

See, what I was hoping for is that arming time referred to a period of time traps could be stood on before then activating. That would have been the most ideal change to the way traps arm imo. That way, people would have less opportunity to activate traps at the outer edge, and pets/clones wouldn’t instantly set off traps when they touch them.

Activation radius is smaller than “effect” radius.

blitzkrieg.2451:

The only useful trap is spike, pairing with an interrupt build.

GS (2 potential interrupts) / Shortbow (#5) / Taunt on pet f2 / Spike Trap / Nightmare runes .. Paired with quick draw puts your concussion shot untraited from 25 seconds to 7-8 seconds… Allows for alot of interrupts.

Other than that, traps are utter kitten.

Poison and Flame traps are both viable in PvE.

And Ice Trap is pretty viable on power builds now. It deals considerable damage.

Tragic Positive.9356:

blitzkrieg.2451:

The only useful trap is spike, pairing with an interrupt build.

GS (2 potential interrupts) / Shortbow (#5) / Taunt on pet f2 / Spike Trap / Nightmare runes .. Paired with quick draw puts your concussion shot untraited from 25 seconds to 7-8 seconds… Allows for alot of interrupts.

Other than that, traps are utter kitten.

Poison and Flame traps are both viable in PvE.

And Ice Trap is pretty viable on power builds now. It deals considerable damage.

So you’re saying you would take Ice trap over

Lightning Reflexes, Renewal Signet, Stone Signet and lose stun breaks and defensive utilities that you would need for a power build? Because you kind of need those for a viable power build. Atleast from a PvP perspective who scrims good players constantly like Phanta, Noscoc, etc…. Traps will never be viable on that tier of gameplay, ever. Not before the patch, not after the patch. Traps are just a ‘well, they’re not great, but i enjoy the playstyle’ thing and it ends at that. Which is fine, if you like the style of play traps bring then so be it, but they are FAR from viable.

blitzkrieg.2451:

Tragic Positive.9356:

blitzkrieg.2451:

The only useful trap is spike, pairing with an interrupt build.

GS (2 potential interrupts) / Shortbow (#5) / Taunt on pet f2 / Spike Trap / Nightmare runes .. Paired with quick draw puts your concussion shot untraited from 25 seconds to 7-8 seconds… Allows for alot of interrupts.

Other than that, traps are utter kitten.

Poison and Flame traps are both viable in PvE.

And Ice Trap is pretty viable on power builds now. It deals considerable damage.

So you’re saying you would take Ice trap over

Lightning Reflexes, Renewal Signet, Stone Signet and lose stun breaks and defensive utilities that you would need for a power build? Because you kind of need those for a viable power build. Atleast from a PvP perspective who scrims good players constantly like Phanta, Noscoc, etc…. Traps will never be viable on that tier of gameplay, ever. Not before the patch, not after the patch. Traps are just a ‘well, they’re not great, but i enjoy the playstyle’ thing and it ends at that. Which is fine, if you like the style of play traps bring then so be it, but they are FAR from viable.

I was having my moments of success with Flame Trap, Spike Trap, Signet of Renewal alone. I had condition cleanse, I had lots of evades, I had Stun Breaker, I had sustain and I won several 1v2 fights. Once won a 1v3 where I downed all of them (got downed myself) but a friendly stealth thief came to stomp one to help me out.

Yes, I can imagine point bunkers with traps even in competitive. There’s lots of ways to utilize. People were saying that morph Necros are unviable and yet some tournaments included those (even though the team was built to support them up).

Yet you are ignoring the most important fact here.
Traps are not sPvP oriented only. Have you ever used Guard in PvE? Well I haven’t and I wasn’t complaining about it’s “usefulness” in the game. And some people made a very powerful build of the PvE useless ability for very powerful sustainable regen Ranger. And it was powerful in both WvW and PvP.

Abilities are not made to be perfect and meta for every single game mode at the same time. You had the game going for a few days. The meta’s going to change a lot in time.
Just because you haven’t found a single use for the trap it doesn’t mean there is none. The Frost Trap alone now deals more damage than Maul, provides 15 seconds of AoE chill, provides Ice Field for better sustain (Frost Armor).

And just because you don’t see the potential of this ability in PvP it doesn’t mean it’s useless as an ability itself.

solrik.6028:

jcbroe.4329:

See, what I was hoping for is that arming time referred to a period of time traps could be stood on before then activating. That would have been the most ideal change to the way traps arm imo. That way, people would have less opportunity to activate traps at the outer edge, and pets/clones wouldn’t instantly set off traps when they touch them.

Activation radius is smaller than “effect” radius.

The difference in radius is literally a side step.

Know what I do when I play against rangers using the new trap build? I send in the pet, trigger the traps, and call it back so it doesn’t sit in them. Then I either sit at range or I engage closer (depending on whether I’m bow or A/D S/T), and if I engage closer, I count to 9 seconds after the traps have been engaged, then back off out of trap range, and repeat the process until the trapper is dead. If they are aggressive, I just continuously kite and avoid the traps and because of their arming time, unless you stop moving, you will literally never get caught in a trap without the ranger getting you with some sort of CC first (or your mouse dies or some other sort of anomaly like that).

I’ve also played traps myself, and loved the new traps up until I came across the first few matches against top tier players, who are smart enough to play in a similar fashion and never really get caught in traps ever, definitely not often enough to base a build around them and call them effective against quality players.

This has just been my experience though. I’d personally love to see all of our builds work, so I’m not trying to discourage people not to play with traps, I’m trying to offer up constructive experiences and criticism to actually allow the build to be evaluated, just like we all do for every major patch and period of time we are testing potential top tier viable builds.

The trick with traps is to lead or lure enemy into. It is all about positioning now with traps rather than pre-patch when we could toss. The dance the poster above noted is well and true until you decided to engage. Trap ranger with LB forces that decision. If you judge the path at which you take incorrectly the advantage goes to the trap ranger.

That is how I’ve played it anyway. They are more defensive now and position is critical.

This thread says it all. I 100% agree.

People just like to complain instead of actually trying them. That being said I am all for a little bit of flavor for flame/frost trap. They are completely viable right now and lack of ground targeting certainly is not a problem but I wish they also made those traps a bit more interesting.

Dojo.1867:

This thread says it all. I 100% agree.

People just like to complain instead of actually trying them. That being said I am all for a little bit of flavor for flame/frost trap. They are completely viable right now and lack of ground targeting certainly is not a problem but I wish they also made those traps a bit more interesting.

Frost Trap gets pretty interesting with Longbow #4. You know, kiting around with bonus damage and Chill through Ice Field is an entertaining game-play.

You can try the double stealth (Quick Draw + Hunter’s Shot) with this trap, too. It works wonders. I wouldn’t call it meta or anything, but it definitely is fun.

How does frost trap help doing this? Why LB #4?

Dojo.1867:

How does frost trap help doing this? Why LB #4?

People step on the trap – get hit for nice numbers – get chilled – you push them back into the trap with a Projectile Finisher #4 (or behind the trap – forcing them to take a round around the trap).

Then you hit another Projectile Finisher of Hunter’s Shot – another chill and you get a chance to reposition. The target should be at around 9 seconds of chill and you should have all the time in the world to snipe them down.

I got to admit, i had one hell of a laugh when my invisible PU mesmer walk right into it with no cleans & died from it. Priceless! lol

traps are for team fights, not “dueling phanta or whoever the kitten else”. the frost trap can pretty much shut down a fight in your favour, stacking up to 9s of chill if people don’t have condi cleanses; poison trap is probably ideal for killing bunkers. the aoe is huge so if they wanna keep the cap, they have to stay on the fields.

they have to be careful when buffing traps because they can get out of hand quickly, at least in conquest. spike trap probably needs to have a 25-30s CD traited, and cast time for laying down a trap needs a slightly lower CD, maybe 0.25s. otherwise theyre fine. ranger is very survivable with rabid gear, slotting 1-2 traps. Id say the trapper’s “role” is to kill bunkers and put immense condi pressure on a point.

the other change that would bolster traps is reverting bonfire range to 240, which would then make it possible to not slot the fire trap and go utility with frost or poison.

Having a thief and guardian teleport on me only to be knocked down was the best i felt in a long time while playing my ranger.

They work really well on Conquest in my experience, but i am not very optimistic about their usage in the new mode. Spike is pretty strong even without any traits to buff it, flame is up almost all the time and burning is kinda strong right now so i like it, poison and frost are too situational to my liking but i think i might switch fire with poison if they tone down burning damage.

mistsim.2748:

traps are for team fights, not “dueling phanta or whoever the kitten else”. the frost trap can pretty much shut down a fight in your favour, stacking up to 9s of chill if people don’t have condi cleanses; poison trap is probably ideal for killing bunkers. the aoe is huge so if they wanna keep the cap, they have to stay on the fields.

they have to be careful when buffing traps because they can get out of hand quickly, at least in conquest. spike trap probably needs to have a 25-30s CD traited, and cast time for laying down a trap needs a slightly lower CD, maybe 0.25s. otherwise theyre fine. ranger is very survivable with rabid gear, slotting 1-2 traps. Id say the trapper’s “role” is to kill bunkers and put immense condi pressure on a point.

the other change that would bolster traps is reverting bonfire range to 240, which would then make it possible to not slot the fire trap and go utility with frost or poison.

Didn’t duel phanta… Did inner scrims in a private arena with abjured. Traps are bad against top tier players, not enough impact to use as a utility skill. Ranger isn’t all that great in top tier anyway, but traps are just bad. When I talk about top tier, I’m talking about going against championship winners of the PvP tourney, not people in hotjoin or unranked arena… I know you haven’t played against players of this caliber yet on a daily basis like I have but once you realize how bad ranger is on this level you will.

Eurantien is really the only ranger I’ve seen who plays in the same league as the abjured and to be honest he has the same opinions because he knows , he’s played against top tiers constantly and consistently… ranger is just bad against top tier competitive pvp players. I know it’s hard for you to grasp that and understand it because you’re so delusional about the class itself that it’s really painful to even watch.

But yes, against top tier players who are the best of their class, ranger is easily telegraphed , easy to understand and traps do NOTHING to provide innovative play against them. It’s just a simple fact… Why would you run a trap ranger for frost, burning or a knockdown when a celestial ele gets all of this AND has 20x the team support and damage and survivability? This alone answers your question in why traps would simply not be good for top tier play.

I know people hate seeing the truth and will probably hate me for posting this but it’s honestly the truth. I really only scrim / rank against top tier players and also duel top known players of their class and it’s not a matter of l2p , it’s a problem with the skill ceiling and weapon abilities of the class itself. Ranger can’t go burst because there is none, ranger can’t go condi because against good players and a good team comp they get removed so quickly. You can’t hold a point with bunker ranger anymore because cele ele will destroy you especially now with the damage the way it is. In team fights you literally provide NOTHING an ele or warrior already doesn’t provide.

Simply put, ranger has NO spot in top tier competitive play which is why you won’t see one being used and traps do nothing to help that. They’re like I said “They’re not great but I like the playstyle” skills, but they’re not top tier or innovative at all. They’re dumbed down even moreso from the last patch because you can’t even throw them anymore, which they sucked even then. There’s a reason you haven’t seen a trap build since the BEGINNING OF THE GAME in an official tournament match (Paradigm anybody?).

So yea, traps are bad AGAINST GOOD PLAYERS, against bads you can run right over them which gives the illusion that they’re good. Most players in the ranger forums have never even seen an inner scrim between 2 top teams or had a chance to duel against truly good players so when they beat somebody in wvw or hotjoin or unranked they think their trap build is god’s next greatest gift to the GW2 ranger community and sprawl to the forums to express themselves on how traps are good because they beat a couple nobodies in a random arena or wvw. But in reality, against truly good players they’re just kitten.

blitzkrieg.2451:

When I talk about top tier, I’m talking about going against championship winners of the PvP tourney,

why do you talk about that which you’ve little clue about? stop throwing names around, being a sheep, and living vicariously through others. do some investigation yourself. besides, that’s all a bunch of us are doing because, as you said, the ranger hasn’t been that strong top plays. so we try to figure out what works

right now, there are a handful of very broken builds that people are starting to investigate/abuse, as they should. so until some things are patched, we cant really call out what’s going to be meta and what’s not. traps, or otherwise.

“traps are for team fights, not “dueling phanta or whoever the kitten else”. the frost trap can pretty much shut down a fight in your favour, stacking up to 9s of chill if people don’t have condi cleanses; poison trap is probably ideal for killing bunkers. the aoe is huge so if they wanna keep the cap, they have to stay on the fields.”

I laughed at this, your thinking of pvp is so very beginner and one-dimensional it makes me cringe. Have you EVER fought against a top tier team before? A poison trap destroys bunkers? What on earth are you talking about, it’s one condition which will get cleansed so quickly , within 2 seconds of it going on cooldown it will get cleansed.

‘Stay on the point and eat a poison trap’ …. Many classes can deliver poison on a node and be much more effective than ranger, poison on a node is largely irrelevant anyway as it will get cleansed quickly, and as a trap ranger against a good team you will get focused because if you’re running both of those traps that means you have up to 1 stun break and good teams will know that and focus you the entire fight, seeing as you can no longer throw them you would then have to be on the point to drop them so you would essentially need to be in the node fight which you would die very easily from being focused without any good defensive utilities… Btw, engi has poison grenade barrage and does same poison , engi has more team utility , more cleave dmg than a poison trap and is also unblockable. Again, useless trap.

Guardians cleanse that very quickly also as do eles and necros and warriors if they were to run the shout build (it’s dead now but whatever) , and a good guardian will take off poison before using shelter and since the trap has an arming time now you can’t just drop it while he’s using shelter to apply poison right before the heal goes off because it takes too long – we tested it already. Also, spike trap can’t be dropped fast enough to even INTERRUPT a bunker’s heal so that skill is utterly pointless as well which would be the only good reason to use the spike trap as an ele can just aoe knockdown in earth anyway as well as a warrior’s rampage, but much more effective classes in top tier pvp and have the same abilities… There’s even many more reasons why they’re bad to list out but really, I think you should hopefully get the point by now.

mistsim.2748:

blitzkrieg.2451:

When I talk about top tier, I’m talking about going against championship winners of the PvP tourney,

why do you talk about that which you’ve little clue about? stop throwing names around and living vicariously through others, and do some investigation.

I practice with top teams just about everyday lol… We test builds out regularly as it’s necessary to do that. I’m not throwing names out or living vicariously through anybody… I just happen to know good players and we practice together. Is there a problem with that? I don’t even know Phanta personally, but we do inner scrims all the time for practice because it’s easier to setup than finding each other in ranked arena.

blitzkrieg.2451:

mistsim.2748:

blitzkrieg.2451:

When I talk about top tier, I’m talking about going against championship winners of the PvP tourney,

why do you talk about that which you’ve little clue about? stop throwing names around and living vicariously through others, and do some investigation.

I practice with top teams just about everyday lol… We test builds out regularly as it’s necessary to do that. I’m not throwing names out or living vicariously through anybody… I just happen to know good players and we practice together. Is there a problem with that? I don’t even know Phanta personally, but we do inner scrims all the time for practice because it’s easier to setup than finding each other in ranked arena.

kay. keep up the good work, and keep the dream alive =)

“It’s a TRAP!”

— Admiral Ackbar

(Sorry, the spirit of Vader compelled me.)

Well, judging from everyone elses responses my trapper build is certainly in another rabbit hole… I run celestial traps with Axe/Axe, LB and go Skirmishing, Survival, Beast Master and solve the “they just avoid the traps” problem by forcably man handeling them into the traps via taunting with my bird/fernhound, dragging them kicking and screaming with my axe or positioning myself around them and knocking them into the trap pit.

This is generally what i’ll use…. although Sometimes i say “kitten having a way out!” and i take vipers nest just to all in them.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-Jo-77;0wEky-t2JEF-0;9V-A;1Z_b;0258148036;4K-H4V;1l6Uwl6Uw0X