Guild Wars 2

Im not going to call anyone a liar, or try to fight their opinons on the Druid however, as i have started to play a Ranger more and more in SPVP (will prolly also do PvE over the course of time aswell) Why is the druid so disliked and considered bad in comparison to other Elites?

I mean im running the standard Cele S+W / Staff Combination for my SPVP and i feel like unless i litterally have 4 people focusing me and outputting a ton of CC im capable of surviving most things, the damage doesnt feel that bad, Sure slower then a Power ranger but it seems to do the job pretty well.

On a 1v1 level i defintly can Survive the majority of things easily, i do know there are some Small QoL changes that would really make players happy, however i am curious to what is causing this elite to be seen kitten bad, Im by no level a Expert Ranger.. or a pro with any of the rangers Skillsets, I am simply practicing which is why i am asking about this.

I mean Glyphs need to become Player Aimed and Not just a circle around u, i have found so many situations where this is just annoying as hell, glyphs are basically unusable in any ranged Combat yet the Elites Weapon choice is RANGED, It’d be ALOT better if we could choose weather to use it On people around us or Use it from a Distance.

I understand that the Astral glyphs arnt worth their use down to the fact CF lasts so short time ur trying to output as much healing as possible, so they possibly need some looking into to make them more viable (or Even put CF Regeneration on them so we can use them to keep us in form alittle longer)

i know both wyverns atleast need changing around as they land nothing due to animations being too slow, which tbh i feel Anet really do need to do, to give new pets and just make them Not usuable is ridiculous, i dont think they even provide that much in PvE due to the Tiger outclassing them by such a level.

The astral building on the Damage side of the Druid is also very limiting i feel like it needs to be raised abit, even if it means u need to bring Down the healing side of it to even them out, maybe bring them them both to 1 1/4 Per Heal and Damage, this would pretty much even it out allowing players to not use the staff to be Consistent with the form.

but outside of these 4 things, is there anything else which is bringing the Druid down in peoples eyes, Like these changes are only really Minor ones outside the Astral building so i cant see these in itself making a Elite seem incapable completely…

So help me out guys what am i really missing which is bringing this Elite below Others?

Glyphs are fine as pbaoe. Traited version could activate condi cleanse faster though.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Glyphs are fine as pbaoe. Traited version could activate condi cleanse faster though.

And perhaps a wider radius. But you could say that for all the glyphs.

the main problem i can see with the druid is that power builds and healing tend to not mix well.

the staff and the druid traits, imho, should be more of a hybrid set allowing for condition application as well as some power damage. if staff dps stayed where it is and also applied some conditions and CAF also applied conditions while healing allies I think most people would have been happy.

Prophet.1584:

the main problem i can see with the druid is that power builds and healing tend to not mix well.

the staff and the druid traits, imho, should be more of a hybrid set allowing for condition application as well as some power damage. if staff dps stayed where it is and also applied some conditions and CAF also applied conditions while healing allies I think most people would have been happy.

I’d be in favor of adding a burning tick or two at the end of Solar Beam’s last pulse.

Is it though?

PvP consensus says otherwise: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Druid_-_Celestial_Avatar

As far as i have practiced, the only thing i have really noticed to be really problematic, is the lack of flexibility in it.

I mean going into Druid pretty much only leads to being a Bunker, or Some form of 1v1 onpoint fighter, which lacks like Flexibility specially in stronghold where realistically all u can do is Heal tons and try to output all the damage you really can, or protect against pushing but even then u dont do the damage to reliably get rid of Doorbreakers in itself specially if the enemy push them forward.

I feel its only issue realistically is how Rigid it is into being Some sorta Cele half bunker proffession. It kinda feels like a Disabled Elementalist pre-expansion, u tank alot, u have quite abit of mobility accessible to urself, but theres no power option in itself your just pretty much statically one thing.. but cause it isnt Overpowered.. or capable of Healing During its damage output it isnt doing it to a Level to make it feel powerful or Required.

Issue is, i cant see it being something Anets going to fix after its release, to force Some Power Aspect into Druids would take reworking some of the traits etc etc, i know we saw that done with the Warrior, but anet seem to be fine with making us all bunkers.

Prophet.1584:

the main problem i can see with the druid is that power builds and healing tend to not mix well.

the staff and the druid traits, imho, should be more of a hybrid set allowing for condition application as well as some power damage. if staff dps stayed where it is and also applied some conditions and CAF also applied conditions while healing allies I think most people would have been happy.

Isnt this ment to be the point of the Elite specializations though.

They arnt ment to directly Replace the proffession, but offer it New options, The Elites had the aim to NOT be used in all builds but to be used in a Specific build, all this is a case of the Ranger is one of the few proffessions Where this was actually managed, so we cant really use this as a reason for it to need buffing because the elites Were never advertised to Improve the Proffession in all capabilities, they were advertised to give you a New option or Role u could perform.

Druid offers u the healing role, In exchange of DPS, which is a balanced argument really, u shouldnt have both in any aspect it doesnt fair well for the game, Look at the Elementalist Strife in PvP throughout pre-expansion because they could Just Heal and damage at the exact same time with very little concequence.

Druid does feel alittle static in such things as Forced to use Staff and maybe it does need alittle more flexibility so u can atleast wriggle within the Elite specialization, but i dont think allowing it to improve power builds was never a intention by any of the Devs…

you can Argue, Reaper Chronomancer Daredevil and berserker are all Increases to the proffessions DPS but their Elites was Intended to be a DPS, i doubt u’d find many of them using them if they were extending OUT of the dps role, it Just happens that the playerbases of those proffessions are mainly ALL DPS.

Scrapper realistically will be in the same boat as us most likely unless their DPS is rigged up, Chaithh talked about the traits, and 99% of their options are Purely defence, he even question is the Damage output of Hammer going to make it work for PvE raiding.

At the end of the day, we can argue against this factor but our elite is ment to be a Healing role, it isnt ment to provide DPS, I’d love to see them introduce a way to be a DPS Druid… but i dont think they will because they dont want these Elites Overriding the base versions, the ones that are currently doing so will prolly see nerfing realistically it just hasnt happened yet.

on the bright side, Look at this way, u dont actually need to bother with the HP Farm as much as others.. because it’ll offer u nothing if ur wanting to be a DPS.

jcbroe.4329:

Is it though?

PvP consensus says otherwise: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Druid_-_Celestial_Avatar

that is a PvP build, alot of the players QQ seem to be coming from their PvE experience with the Elite.

Also PvP rangers arnt arguing that the Druid is USELESS they’re arguing the Elites too Rigid, Not everyone wants to pidgeon hole into Staff, at the end of the day, its arguable to say NOPE, ur a healer, u shouldnt be seeing DPS buffs in a Healing Traitline. yes, but it isnt Arguable to say to be Viable theres only ONE Solid alternative for you.

The Druid isnt Weak for that Aspect, it can bunker very well and it Offers great group support, however to be anything else is impossible, u cannot swap Staff out because its basically mandatory for anyone physically attempting to use Druid.

by no means is the Druid Underpowered, it does jobs Very well… its Just very limited to only one job, People want this to become Somewhat usuable on a Power based build, maybe with a DPS Sacrifice but capable of using it to become More Sustained in a More Damaging build.

they want to be able to LB/GS in Druid basically, and if they’d Even out the Astral Force to 1 1/4 from BOTH to generate it, they’d very easily allow staff to be taken out for those who dont specifically want to be a bunker.

The Druids the most static Elite out there, It forces the player to use One directional Routes to being powerful with it with 0 room to wriggle, and thats the Complaint arguing it has a Meta Set up means crap when its the ONLY druid set up in ANYTHING outside Testing.

The problem isn’t any single issue. It is a combination of weaknesses which holds Druid back. You have named a number of them, but I would like to add, in no particular order:

• Clunky, slow, and non-versatile staff mechanics
• No synergy with non-staff weapons
• Lack of synergy with base Ranger trait lines
• Needlessly restrictive gates on CAF
• Incredibly small skill AoEs on CAF 1 and 2
• Slow cast times in CAF
• Poor synergy with the pet!
• No boon application skills
• No synergy with conditions (save for a single poor glyph)
• 2 underwhelming utility skills (including the ELITE glyph)
• Delayed and AoE-restricted condition cleansing

Many of these issues can be sorted out, but we have received no communication that they will even be looked at, much less fixed. Individually they are small problems; together, they create a mess. Druid’s weaknesses can be partially countered by using base Ranger weapons, trait lines, and utilities, but then the Druid has very little to offer except CAF—which is highly situational, with limited access in non-Staff builds. In its current state, the Druid elite is inflexible and easily surpassed by other builds in MOST situations.

Yeah, Druids do seem to have far too many weaknesses going against them currently, i dont understand if these are All highlighted problems they’ve failed to deliever on any single one of those, but thats just going to launch the Anet dont care argument over again realistically.

The lack of Synergy with base Ranger traitlines were expected, with the random input of a Healing traitline into a game which holds no trinity, but i suspose it could have held More synergy, simply Evening the CF generation via Damage would have prolly gone a long way to Creating a Synergy, this way a DPS Ranger could feel like they are sacrificing their DPS to take on more sustain which would be good in multiple bruiser builds specially considering the current forming meta.

The AoE Cleansing is a restriction im assuming to stop Druids making teams immortal to condi builds, so i guess atleast Reducing the Delay would be realistically nice to give us.

I do hope that Anet atleast have the same mindset and are intending to atleast remove some of the weaknesses from the druid, if any was to be fixed i feel like the Synergy with non-staff Weapons and base Traitline, Synergy With Conditions, Reducing the Slowness of Staff, and Addition of boons would make the biggest differences, Currently the meta is showing Might stacking builds to work with this… so to see a revamp of one Trait which I dunno Increases the effect of Glyphs and gives Stacks of Might would be really nice to see added.

Maybe we’ll see something good in the next patch, although judging by most peoples opinon on the matter, not many hold their breath lol.

I don’t mind being a healer or taking on the healer role as some do, but, we need to be THE healer in a raid group. For druid to have a place it needs to provide healing strong enough that the rest of the group doesn’t have to worry about heals. Right now with targeting as it is and healing power scaling I don’t think it does that.

Revenant, guardian and warrior provide a ton of useful boons. Having one more profession that offers the same things doesn’t really help so I really like the application of GotL and GoE along with Frost spirit. we need more of that kind of team buffing ability. something seperate from boons and conditions that helps the whole team.

i’ve got a DH that seems to be a better version of the dps ranger and i’ve got my druid fully unlocked and geared waiting for raids if they are needed, we’ll see what can be done with it before raid launch.

as a side note, i don’t WANT to be dps we HAVE to be dps. doing damage is the only way in which we are credited with taking part in any content.

It would probably help if it was easier to put Healing Power into hybrid damage builds to give versaitility but the only stat set capable of this is Zealots, which is nigh impossible to get hold of unless you have tons of gold lying around. I’d suggest that either the Zealot set needs new ingredients or the watchwork should start being dropped by certain mobs or from cargo in Verdant Brink. Either way it needs to be made more available.

Druid would have a less harsh time if it could deal decent damage, then be able to switch to heal-bot as necessary

I dunno Druid seems really strong to me. I’ve played a really wide variety of power based builds now in pvp. Lots of time on Axe/Torch for condis in open world pve and fractals.

And I’ll just say, if you’re having a hard time generating astral force then you’re probably spending faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar too much time in celestial avatar form. Go in, use the skills you need, then get out. Rejuvenating tides is really really strong for those times you’re just flashing Avatar Form. If you exit the Form before your cast is complete, the rejuvenating tides will finish casting. It won’t keep healing, but the water field DOES stick around, and it will continue to apply Grace of the Land.

Well They nerf this pet attacking skill 3 Also Took me 8K in just reloaded this attack in 30s, not my wolf and leopard Took much the same damage to “sic”, signet wild and beastmaster.Smoke Scale was very strong that way and any ranger no finger can bring down the other, especially with druid healing quickly

jewishjoyride.4693:

I dunno Druid seems really strong to me. I’ve played a really wide variety of power based builds now in pvp. Lots of time on Axe/Torch for condis in open world pve and fractals.

And I’ll just say, if you’re having a hard time generating astral force then you’re probably spending faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar too much time in celestial avatar form. Go in, use the skills you need, then get out. Rejuvenating tides is really really strong for those times you’re just flashing Avatar Form. If you exit the Form before your cast is complete, the rejuvenating tides will finish casting. It won’t keep healing, but the water field DOES stick around, and it will continue to apply Grace of the Land.

it’s less about PVP or even WvW and more about PvE. I think druid is decent for pvp and wvw. it makes a really strong power bunker.

I’m loving playing a healing Druid in pvp. It really shines if you coordinate with 1 or 2 friends playing dps builds. The heavy daze it can out out is very strong in team fights as well. Overall I am very pleased with how the Druid is performing.

Prophet.1584:

jewishjoyride.4693:

I dunno Druid seems really strong to me. I’ve played a really wide variety of power based builds now in pvp. Lots of time on Axe/Torch for condis in open world pve and fractals.

And I’ll just say, if you’re having a hard time generating astral force then you’re probably spending faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar too much time in celestial avatar form. Go in, use the skills you need, then get out. Rejuvenating tides is really really strong for those times you’re just flashing Avatar Form. If you exit the Form before your cast is complete, the rejuvenating tides will finish casting. It won’t keep healing, but the water field DOES stick around, and it will continue to apply Grace of the Land.

it’s less about PVP or even WvW and more about PvE. I think druid is decent for pvp and wvw. it makes a really strong power bunker.

Druid has made Axe/Torch condis way better for fractals. We’ll see what works once raids come around.

jewishjoyride.4693:

Prophet.1584:

jewishjoyride.4693:

I dunno Druid seems really strong to me. I’ve played a really wide variety of power based builds now in pvp. Lots of time on Axe/Torch for condis in open world pve and fractals.

And I’ll just say, if you’re having a hard time generating astral force then you’re probably spending faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar too much time in celestial avatar form. Go in, use the skills you need, then get out. Rejuvenating tides is really really strong for those times you’re just flashing Avatar Form. If you exit the Form before your cast is complete, the rejuvenating tides will finish casting. It won’t keep healing, but the water field DOES stick around, and it will continue to apply Grace of the Land.

it’s less about PVP or even WvW and more about PvE. I think druid is decent for pvp and wvw. it makes a really strong power bunker.

Druid has made Axe/Torch condis way better for fractals. We’ll see what works once raids come around.

The Druid line is a DPS loss for the standard condition ranger A/T build and groups on higher levels don’t need the healing. I’m still trying to hold out hope for raids, though.

@OP

I can’t really say. I’ve been having a really huge success with the build. I cannot determine if it’s the amount of time I’ve been maining ranger or playing in a different brackets… But either way:

My opinion on druid is that he is perfectly fine. Absolutely fine as he is.
He needs to manage his mechanics to survive. If he does – he’s the most sustaining entity you can find. Has a clear counter-play, though. CC focus.

That’s just something you lack and is a very fitting counter-option against you as a druid. Which means that you either need to be extra skillful or you are not self-sufficient for Team Fights and you want those teammates to protect you. Because if they will – you’ll bring them into success.

I find druid in a very good state. Powerful with obvious counters which is exactly the beauty of balance.