While we have plenty of + x % more damage everywhere, i feel that they shut down our condition builds. The new Light On Your Feet for short bow is even more hybrid oriented, Honed Axes is power oriented. In WS, a more condition line to me, the two only traits with condition based are in the same adept slot (Ambidexterity and Expertise Training, the first is mandatory), worst, we still have a + x % more damage master trait (?)
Classical A/D and S/T builds will have to choose too many useless traits.
Some proposal changes, not especially the all ones :
- merge Expertise Training and Rending Attacks
- Bountiful Hunter : you and your pet have increase condition damage (or duration) for each boon on you
- Nature ’s Wrath : gain condition damage based on your healing
- reverse Wilting Strike in BM ( pet F2 cause weakness) and Peak Strength in WS (deal more damage while above the health treshold)
What do you think ?
Edit : i realize i don’t even like my proposal changes :)
(edited by borya.2964)
I can see a trapper build on the horizon:
Skirmishing: Most Dangerous Game, Trapper’s Expertise, Quick Draw
Survival: Ambidexteriy, Oakheart Salve, Empathic Bond
Nature Magic: ANY, Evasive Purity OR Vigorous Training, Protective Ward(OMGNERFPLZ)
Weapons: S/D, A/T
the idea is, that quick draw allows you to lay down double fire fields with the torch and evade like crazy with the sword.
That being said, what we saw on friday will not be the final state of the ranger traits. A lot of it looked unfinished and unpolished, like they just tossed in some leftovers to fill up the quota for the presentation.
Well, i had to say that i was thinking about non trappers condition builds who are tied to a specific runes set to get a minimum sustain.
Our condi builds right now aren’t that great. We don’t have a steady way to apply conditions. Our main “condi” weapon, the axe, has a single skill that applies a small amount of bleeds.
Most ranger weapons are hybrid by nature. Condi builds arose because 1) they could go ridiculously overboard with defense in WvW through gear and 2) the fact that traits basically forced you to go condi with every build we had. For a long time our only condi removal trait meant that you had an extra 300 condi damage whether you liked it or not. Also that and the NM, two defensive condi lines, had almost all of our good traits for years.
It’s high time we stopped trying to shove rangers in to a pure condi role.
I agree mate, hybrid is far superior in my mind, that is why I’ve always been a big fan of the SB and we just got some more good traits to boost our hybrid nature.
Damage from both sources is less vulnerable to counter than from either power or condi alone and if people see condi stacking up, they kinda forget about your constant mid range direct damage and try and clear the conditions.
Our condi builds right now aren’t that great. We don’t have a steady way to apply conditions. Our main “condi” weapon, the axe, has a single skill that applies a small amount of bleeds.
Most ranger weapons are hybrid by nature. Condi builds arose because 1) they could go ridiculously overboard with defense in WvW through gear and 2) the fact that traits basically forced you to go condi with every build we had. For a long time our only condi removal trait meant that you had an extra 300 condi damage whether you liked it or not. Also that and the NM, two defensive condi lines, had almost all of our good traits for years.
It’s high time we stopped trying to shove rangers in to a pure condi role.
PVE LB power meta ( i don’t care). PVP/WvW LB meta everywhere. Excuse me, it’s time for what ? I am confused.
You are confused? You are not the only one… Now.
What was your point?
“It’s high time we (who ?) stopped trying to shove ranger into a pure condir role”.
If it’s true , why LB meta power rangers are everywhere ? Obviously cuz it’s not true, nobody force rangers to neither play the terrible LB power meta build (Fluffball missed the point where LB, S/D made a really good use of SOFT and the extra 300 condi damage with Sharpened Edges) nor a condition one. There is no condi rangers in PVE (i guess), probably a bit more in spvp (i guess) and very few in wvw (for sure).
Pew pew rangers are a group of rebels who doesn’t want to be tied in a condi build ?
Edit: note that i’am a pew pew ranger most of the time.
(edited by borya.2964)
Fluffball is making the statement, because from the PvP meta standpoint, the meta ranger builds has always been a condition build since launch.
Traps → Beastmaster → Spirits → Condi-Survival
You see power rangers as much as you see GS warriors and power necros in PvP, and while certain builds may be considered viable, they are not considered optimal and therefore not considered to be part of the metagame.
Now, as far as the topic of the core specializations and condition ranger goes:
The main limiting theorycrafting factors we have right now are not knowing how well traps or spirits are going to perform after the “revamp.”
Skirmishing with Traps and a shortbow should theoretically if traps are made viable again work well, as shortbow always has with traps, alongside Sharpened Edges which actually seemed to be buffed up from 2 seconds to 3 seconds and still has no ICD from the preview.
You would probably still want to combine that with Empathic Bond since you need your utility slots for traps, and pick up Ambidexterity for the inevitable offhand dagger (unparalleled defensive weapon utility) and either go Oakheart Salve or the buffed up (from 90 seconds to 60 seconds) Shared Anguish since you won’t have much room on the utility bar and can always use another stun break.
Lastly, you’d probably go Nature Magic and pick up whichever adept seems appropriate, Evasive Purity or Vigorous Training, and either Protective Ward or Invigorating Bond, though my preference would be Ward.
That’s just one example though. Ultimately, it seems like any condition build is going to revolve around running 0/6/6/6/0, 0/6/6/0/6, or 0/0/6/6/6, and it will be traps, spirits, condi survival, or a newer (ish) F2 support build with AoE conditions/heals/etc, or some hybrid of ideas those ideas.
We also don’t know what the druid traits and the staff are going to look like yet either, which is something to keep in mind.
lol how did they shut down our condi builds? you can do the same thing you do now, in addition to maxing out BM for the taunt and scary pets.
I agree that useless traits need to be fixed, but new condi BM builds will be so scary.
lol how did they shut down our condi builds? you can do the same thing you do now, in addition to maxing out BM for the taunt and scary pets.
I agree that useless traits need to be fixed, but new condi BM builds will be so scary.
They use celestial. You use Rabid or Carrion.
If you use Rabid, you die to conditions, if you use carrion, you die to crit.
Meanwhile, the celestial builds are min/maxed to have enough sustain and condi remove to live through your condi application.
Ultimately, what really drove condition ranger out of the meta was the advent of the shoutbow: A bunker spec, which is nearly immune to conditions, while dishing out pure celestial damage to anyone who doesn’t have a solid mix of both vitality AND toughness.
Normally, taking down bunkers was what condi builds were really good at. After all, the initial bunker meta of the game shifted to condi meta, when people figured out, that trapper rangers actually ate bunker guards on point.
Condi builds will come back with HoT.
NOT because the new trait setup allows their builds, but because celestial gets a well deserved stab in the guts.
I know it’s more of a crit/condition/fury build, but I’m thinking that something along these lines is going to enable the ranger to put down a high number of conditions AND deal damage too.
There’s lot’s of bleed from SB1 (mixed with synergy of boosted power & condition damage while moving, and booster when flanking), a poison F2 that’ll combine with taunt to theoretically keep enemies in the field while it pulses. A fair number of ways of refreshing OS with 100% crit chance to trigger on-crit runes. Reduced timer on RaO allowing you to take it instead of entangle and still get a frequent Krait rune 6 effect.
Shortbow
Greatsword
On-crit sigils, e.g.
- Sigil of Eath
- Sigil of Torment
Krait Runes
Murrellow (F2 – Poison Field)
Marksmanship
- Opening Strike
- Beastmasters Bond
- Alpha Training
- Beastmasters Might
- Precise Strike
- Remorseless
Skirmishing
- Tailwind
- Sharpened Edges
- Furious Grip
- Spotter
- Hunter’s Tactics
- Light on your Feet
Beastmastery
- Instinctual Bond
- Resounding Timbre
- Loud Whistle
- Two-Handed Training
- Pet’s Prowess
- Beastly Warden
I think a few tweaks could make a really effective build
Poison stack in intensity + poison master gives 50% more poison damage.
Sharpening Edge becomes 3 sec bleeding. Light on food make SB pierces and more condition duration. Torch/dagger trait buff. Where exactly is condition spec died?
Poison stack in intensity + poison master gives 50% more poison damage.
Sharpening Edge becomes 3 sec bleeding. Light on food make SB pierces and more condition duration. Torch/dagger trait buff. Where exactly is condition spec died?
No one smart will take PM over WK. That’s the problem with PM…other than it being pretty lackluster to begin with (poison has terrible damage potential, and 2 stacks isn’t helping that).
Sharpened edges is actually a straight nerf now that they brought the pet into things. They are truly clueless on the class. I mean, half of my bleeds now have a chance to do terrible damage because they insist on pets having their own scaling. Wonderful.
Ambidexterity has the honor of being the only trait worth anything in its line (that’s sarcasm FYI). I seriously hope they build the range increase from offhand training into it. If they don’t then it is a terrible, terrible tradeoff from what we have now. If they do, its decent, however I still see no reason to exclude OH Axe (other than OH Axe sucks more than most).
Basically from my estimation, condition builds will be in a very odd spot because of the insistence on splitting everything with the pet. They for some reason have raging lumber over giving the pet the ability to cause bleeding with attacks. There is a reason people avoid the hawk / eagle!
Also, they removed intimidation training. That alone is going to hurt condi builds as it provides great setup for landing throw torch / splitblade / etc.
Sharpened edges is actually a straight nerf now that they brought the pet into things. They are truly clueless on the class. I mean, half of my bleeds now have a chance to do terrible damage because they insist on pets having their own scaling. Wonderful…
…Also, they removed intimidation training. That alone is going to hurt condi builds as it provides great setup for landing throw torch / splitblade / etc.
How is your pet doing bleeds on crit, added to Sharpened Edges a nerf? I mean, since you can pick Expertise Training too, but even if you don’t, you get a 3s bleed with 0 condition damage for free, that’s what, 150 damage? And it will be MAYBE 25% of your bleeds that will be like that, but you know what? It will be 25% more bleeds than you had before. Since there will be no 25 cap on them, you won’t be hindered by that.
Agree on Intimidation Training, really loved that before. Still good now with weakness, sure, but having such access to cripple was great.
It is a nerf to me because the pets bleeds can overwrite the ranger’s. Before we could control that by not taking a pet that had a chance to bleed, now we have to avoid the trait too.
Poison stack in intensity + poison master gives 50% more poison damage.
Sharpening Edge becomes 3 sec bleeding. Light on food make SB pierces and more condition duration. Torch/dagger trait buff. Where exactly is condition spec died?No one smart will take PM over WK. That’s the problem with PM…other than it being pretty lackluster to begin with (poison has terrible damage potential, and 2 stacks isn’t helping that).
Sharpened edges is actually a straight nerf now that they brought the pet into things. They are truly clueless on the class. I mean, half of my bleeds now have a chance to do terrible damage because they insist on pets having their own scaling. Wonderful.
Ambidexterity has the honor of being the only trait worth anything in its line (that’s sarcasm FYI). I seriously hope they build the range increase from offhand training into it. If they don’t then it is a terrible, terrible tradeoff from what we have now. If they do, its decent, however I still see no reason to exclude OH Axe (other than OH Axe sucks more than most).
Basically from my estimation, condition builds will be in a very odd spot because of the insistence on splitting everything with the pet. They for some reason have raging lumber over giving the pet the ability to cause bleeding with attacks. There is a reason people avoid the hawk / eagle!
Also, they removed intimidation training. That alone is going to hurt condi builds as it provides great setup for landing throw torch / splitblade / etc.
Go check my proposed wilderness survival change. It makes more sense that way.
Feel free to leave a feedback.
It is a nerf to me because the pets bleeds can overwrite the ranger’s. Before we could control that by not taking a pet that had a chance to bleed, now we have to avoid the trait too.
No. No they cannot. At least, they will no when all this hits.
That’s right, I even explained that. Since there will be a bleed cap of more than 100, your pet cannot overwrite your bleeds, its simply going to be adding more.
It is a nerf to me because the pets bleeds can overwrite the ranger’s. Before we could control that by not taking a pet that had a chance to bleed, now we have to avoid the trait too.
No. No they cannot. At least, they will no when all this hits.
Check out : https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Increased-Bleeding-Stacks
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