Guild Wars 2

The Question : Are there any plans to improve Ranger Pets and the Necromancer’s AI?

“We are always looking at the balance and the systems of our Professions and we alter it as necessary. Everyone has an idea of how they would like their class to be super powerful. Warrior’s saying how they want to dual wield Greatswords, etc…Everyone wanted something crazy. But we have a keen eye on all of the different professions and we have seen a lot of questions regarding Ranger Pets and like everything else we’ll be looking into it.”

- Chris Whiteside

I shortened it a tid bit, but you can watch the video from here (Skip to 11:03) :
Source: http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/02/18/guild-wars-2-the-past-present-and-future-up-at-noon

so basically improving pet AI was compared to being a crazy super powered warrior (the most oped class already) with 2 great swords?

AjoraOaks.3659:

so basically improving pet AI was compared to being a crazy super powered warrior (the most oped class already) with 2 great swords?

Yeah, pretty much. I don’t think he knew how to handle/answer the question. Getting a class mechanic to work isn’t exactly on the same level as “I want to be overpowered!”

“we’ll be looking into it” – you mean you haven’t already?!? Gaaaah!!!!!

I believe they’ve already acknowledged at least some of the issues with Ranger pets, and hence did at least try to improve the “melee” pets ability to hit in one of the more recent patches. As I recall, it was Jon Peters who posted about it and did the actual work.

Not saying everything is wonderful, but there was an admission several weeks ago that things needed to be improved.

Ugh, that was the ultimate letdown. So the ultra crappy pet AI is for balance purposes now
I hope he just wasn’t familiar with the issues or ranger is in a even deeper hole than anyone guessed.

It think comparing the pet issue with warrior wanting two great swords is not becuase there arent real problem with pets but some of the solution of how to fix them are so far out there like aoe reduction or immunity.

Knowing there is a problem and having solutions to fix said problem are not the same.
I think that’s what they mean when they said we will be looking into the problem.

Wow, just wow. How can they compare minions and pets being suboptimal and out and out useless in many situations with warriors wanting lol2greatswordsplz! My enthusiasm for anet is drastically waning these days.

What I read was the current AI of the pet is part of the class balance…It is the way it is by DESIGN!

this is why i am levelling other classes. I love my ranger, but it’s a disaster in wvw.

It was obviously a dodge so they didn’t have to give an answer.

A pet’s f2 should not need to be spammed and commands should at least make the pet run STRAIGHT to you/at the enemy immediately. A simple fix for lots of pet issues imo; just change the protection for pet trait into a 2 second invuln (no stacking) on your dodge that goes to the pet. There you go, an “evade” for pet… and I can’t think of a single reason that’d be unbalanced honestly. It makes your bond with your pet seem stronger and it sounds fun that your pet would technically dodge with you.

What exactly does everyone have a problem with regarding the pet AI?

epic fail. anything less than “we’re currently testing significant pet AI changes internally” is unacceptable at this point.

Direksone.3867:

What exactly does everyone have a problem with regarding the pet AI?

Search the forums. Not trying to be rude. It’s just that there’s so many posts and threads at this point, a simple search would provide a better answer than I could probably ever give you.

That said, the simple answer is pet AI is all kinds of dumb. That, in and of itself, isn’t a bad thing, but the fact of the matter is rangers are very reliant on pets. That is their mechanic. That’s what separates them from every other class. So, when you can’t control every aspect of the pet, one would hope the AI would be good enough that it shouldn’t be a problem.

Well…the AI isn’t good enough so it is a problem. A very, very big problem.

I don’t see how the quote could be interpreted as being meant as a comparison between requests for dual greatswords and queries on ranger pets.

I think it is the transition statement (paraphrasing here) of everyone has ideas of how to my there profession super powerful. Then mentioning warrior dual-wielding greatsword, or mesmers or anyone wanting tactical nukes. So it isn’t difficult to with the general feeling some of community has about Anet’s comments that wanting the pet/minion AI improved is like asking for aforementioned nuke.

Heres what i think about pets and Rangers.
Anet wants to make a competitive game that skill>gear..
So wants in every class to be a distance between the skill of each player,not the gear.Thats why pets are “problematic”.So the good players will have better control and made them hit more succesfull than bad players who dont pay attention at them and consider them as constant condition on foes
If pets was a constant 1000 dps then we will be searching for the best build.Build Wars 2.
But pets now need the help of the character to be more succesfull at their hits.Some players can make the pets do 5k dps through certain builds and positioning some others can make 1k dps.
Pets imo need some aoe dmg reduction,some F2 fixing and they will be just fine

pet DPS is more than fine. it’s excellent. pet survivability in smaller engagements that arent spammed by aoe is also fine. therefore, pet is fine in SPVP.

problem is reliability. pets are extremely unreliable due to ridiculous pathing/AI. also very squishy against aoe spam.

pets should dodge when you dodge.

I’m glad they have at least acknowledged there is a problem. But my god I’m only a few minutes in and that host is obnoxious.

Only issue pets have is unable to hit moving foes (Melee ones aswell as ranged)

And F2 u spam it and it does not work goes into cooldown and epic fail

Serraphin Storm.2369:

It think comparing the pet issue with warrior wanting two great swords is not becuase there arent real problem with pets but some of the solution of how to fix them are so far out there like aoe reduction or immunity.

Knowing there is a problem and having solutions to fix said problem are not the same.
I think that’s what they mean when they said we will be looking into the problem.

Guardian spirit weapons were immune to damage for months, and the builds that revolved around them worked. Now they take damage, and virtually every Guardian stopped using them because they die before they’re useful.

See the issue?

Making the Ranger pet immune to AE damage might be a little over the top, but they should really look into making them take at least 50% less damage from Area Effect spells.

While you can dodge AEs, or cure conditions like immobilize, the Ranger pet just stands there taking the full damage, or stays rooted for the full duration, making the other half of the Ranger damage unreliable at best against good players.

Huxow.7259:

Only issue pets have is unable to hit moving foes (Melee ones aswell as ranged)

And F2 u spam it and it does not work goes into cooldown and epic fail

I wish those were the only issues, but there are several

• The long cast time of a pet’s F2 doesn’t work well in combat, especially in PVPing circumstances. They should be instant or be able to cast while moving. By the time my F2 usually goes off (depending on the type of pet), they are out of range of it. It also feels clunky.
• Response time of using F2 is poor
• Response time of using F1 and F3 is also poor
• Pet’s have no “permanent stow” option so they stand there and die in WvW.
• Pet’s have no way of dodging when you dodge, thus lowing their survivability and lowers their chances of getting out of sticky situations.
• Besides Bears, pet’s die far too easily. They have no reduction to AOE damage, which is a huge problem in WvW and Fractals.
• They die instantly in Fractals because they do not share the Ranger’s Agony Resistance.
• When your pet dies, the swap time goes from 20 seconds to 60 seconds. You need fast swap times in order for your pet to even survive in PVP/WvW/Dungeons, so if one of your pets die, your other pet is probably screwed because he can’t be recalled or saved for 60 more seconds. Pressing F3 doesn’t help, since his pathing AI is wonky and he has no disregard for AOEs on his way back.
• Can’t hit moving targets
• No way to revive your pet once he dies besides waiting 60 seconds
• Can’t rename your pets
• Boss mechanics treat your Pet as if it were a player, so boss mechanics like Giganticus Lupicus in Arah and Jade Maw in Fractals screw you over no matter what.

/deep breath
I think small changes like a permanent stow option (so your pet doesn’t die in WvW/Keeps) and an AOE damage reduction would go a long way for Pets. Not to mention if they added a “Distortion” (Evade) buff to your pet everytime you dodged, it would also increase their survivability rate.

Something that is an attachment to a Profession shouldn’t feel like a burden.

Pets just need to move faster, take significantly less damage from AE, use thier abilities instantly when pushing the F2 button (and dart into range if the F2 requires a melee range), and actually retreat when told and retreat in a straight line back to the ranger.

If these things were done, the pet would almost be useable and we could start to justify how large a damage handicap this class has at the expense of the pet.

Class still has some of the worst skills in the game.
Some of the worst traits in the game.
Some of the worst trait placement in the game.
Half of the weapons are useless.

Atherakhia.4086:

Pets just need to move faster, take significantly less damage from AE, use thier abilities instantly when pushing the F2 button (and dart into range if the F2 requires a melee range), and actually retreat when told and retreat in a straight line back to the ranger.

agree up to here. pets actually dont need too much tweaking, just AOE resistance and more responsiveness.

some of our utilities definitely need work. spirits, signets and shouts are weak, while survival and traps are very strong.

LB and OH axe need tweaking rest is fine.

nerva.7940:

Atherakhia.4086:

Pets just need to move faster, take significantly less damage from AE, use thier abilities instantly when pushing the F2 button (and dart into range if the F2 requires a melee range), and actually retreat when told and retreat in a straight line back to the ranger.

agree up to here. pets actually dont need too much tweaking, just AOE resistance and more responsiveness.

some of our utilities definitely need work. spirits, signets and shouts are weak, while survival and traps are very strong.

LB and OH axe need tweaking rest is fine.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree as I don’t want to side track a pet thread on the general plight of the ranger class.

AjoraOaks.3659:

A pet’s f2 should not need to be spammed and commands should at least make the pet run STRAIGHT to you/at the enemy immediately.

Actually you want the pet to lead the enemy – run where the enemy is headed, not where it is right now. They already have this code for ranged attacks (if you shoot arrows at a moving target, you fire at where the target will be when the arrow reaches him). So it should be pretty simply to copy and paste it into the pet AI.

They also need to tweak the attack distance to take into account target movement and skill activation time. Right now most pets will chase, stop to attack, oops target moved out of range, resume chase, stop to attack, oops target moved out of range, repeat.

So basically if they improve Necromancer and Ranger pet AI it would make Necromancers and Rangers OP? But a D/D Thief that can solo 5-15 people through nearly infinite stealth is not OP?

/Facepalm

He talks about a broken mechanic that kills 1 build and a whole class and in the same sentence he mentions dual greatsword wielding Warriors?
What the hell?
So apparently Ranger’s don’t get fixed because it would be overpowered then or what?

So it’s settled then, they can’t fix pet ai since warriors would have to be given dual greatswords.

Solandri.9640:

AjoraOaks.3659:

A pet’s f2 should not need to be spammed and commands should at least make the pet run STRAIGHT to you/at the enemy immediately.

Actually you want the pet to lead the enemy – run where the enemy is headed, not where it is right now. They already have this code for ranged attacks (if you shoot arrows at a moving target, you fire at where the target will be when the arrow reaches him). So it should be pretty simply to copy and paste it into the pet AI.

They also need to tweak the attack distance to take into account target movement and skill activation time. Right now most pets will chase, stop to attack, oops target moved out of range, resume chase, stop to attack, oops target moved out of range, repeat.

There’s some issues with the pet’s attack command after swaps where the pet waits around and also for pathing where it’ll take the longest route possible at times. I’m not even thinking as far ahead as you are based on lack of response to ranger issues, I doubt even what is buggy will be fixed much less improved upon.

I don’t even wanna go into how closely pets follow, my pet runs away from me.

What if they made pets invulnerable (before you all start flaming, hear me out)

- what if they removed pet autoatk and give 4 dynamic profession specific skills (they change from pet type to pet type)
you wouldn’t have to worry about pets getting damage, but still you had to use their skills wisely

for this to work:
- they should adjust ranger damage
- give pets more support abilities and/or improve upon existing ones
example: cats cause bleeding, canines vulnerability, bears stun, spiders poison with their F1, the F2 and F3 are activated dmg dealing abilities, and F4 is special to each pet (like it is now).

This way rangers would get a decent buff to their base dmg, there is no need to worry about pets, but the idea is true to the concept that rangers need to utilize pets for full effectiveness.

Pet’s should not be another 3 seconds of additional dps, they should have abilities synced to your build:

you want condition dmg? Go cats or spiders
you want raw dps? go bear/canine
you want to chase down enemies in wub? go devourer/spider

Babychoochoo.5690:

Direksone.3867:

What exactly does everyone have a problem with regarding the pet AI?

Search the forums. Not trying to be rude. It’s just that there’s so many posts and threads at this point, a simple search would provide a better answer than I could probably ever give you.

That said, the simple answer is pet AI is all kinds of dumb. That, in and of itself, isn’t a bad thing, but the fact of the matter is rangers are very reliant on pets. That is their mechanic. That’s what separates them from every other class. So, when you can’t control every aspect of the pet, one would hope the AI would be good enough that it shouldn’t be a problem.

Well…the AI isn’t good enough so it is a problem. A very, very big problem.

What more do you want to control about them then? I control them well in PvE. Whenever I notice an AoE of some sorts I get my pet to come to me and position him somewhere else. I use ranged pets though in PvE. I played Hunter for YEARS in WoW, back in the vanilla days especially, there was a huge focus on controlling your pet there as well and I think I simply control it more than others do/should. I haven’t come across anything yet as the AI switches when you do (something the turrets of my engineer don’t for instance).