Guild Wars 2

Intimidation Training (BM IX): Activated (F2) abilities for canines and spiders cause cripple.

Am I missing something, or is this just a really poorly thought out trait? Below is a list of all canine and spider pets and their F2 abilities, cripple is partially or entirely wasted for 5 of the 9 pets this trait affects.

Alpine Wolf: Chilling Howl
F2 chills for 4 seconds. Cripple is wasted.

Fern Hound: Regenerate
F2 grants regeneration. Cripple is useful.

Krytan Drakehound: Intimidating Howl
F2 immobilizes foes for 2 seconds. 2 out of 4 seconds of cripple are wasted.

Wolf: Terrifying howl
F2 causes fear for 2 seconds. 2 out of 4 seconds of cripple are wasted.

Hyena: Howl of the Pack
F2 summons an additional hyena. Cripple is useful.

Black Widow: Paralyzing Venom
F2 immobilizes foes for 3 or 4 seconds (according to wiki). Cripple is wasted.

Cave Spider: Weakening Venom
F2 inflicts weakness and vulnerability. Cripple is useful.

Forest Spider: Deadly Venom
F2 inflicts poison. Cripple is useful.

Jungle Spider: Paralyzing Venom
F2 immobilizes foes for 3 or 4 seconds (according to wiki). Cripple is wasted.

EDIT: Weird language filtering

Ranger has worse traits.

Indoles.1467:

Ranger has worse traits.

Possibly, but this one irritates me the most out of all my characters’ traits because it’s just really poorly thought out. I don’t understand how a trait like this can make it into the game, who approved this? It’s a glaring example of superficial work on ranger traits.

Just another thing that shows that ranger was put together with the two professions pre beta they thought weren’t working.
Hence the illogical mess of traits/skills/bugs.
Someone remember the names of those professions?

Screw the professions, I want the names of the developers who okayed stuff like this.

~prepares many flaming poo bags~

Faux Sheaux.6179:

Screw the professions, I want the names of the developers who okayed stuff like this.

~prepares many flaming poo bags~

LOL

Boomstin.3460:

Just another thing that shows that ranger was put together with the two professions pre beta they thought weren’t working.
Hence the illogical mess of traits/skills/bugs.
Someone remember the names of those professions?

First I’ve ever heard of this. I’d love to hear more.

As for the Trait, it’s not wholly useless. The other pets take control away through fears, slows, or immobilization. The other pets offer different perks, such as regen, poison, a second pet, and the trait lets those perks also cripple. If you run with the right pet, it’s alright utility.

Fern Hound: Regenerate
F2 grants regeneration. Cripple is useful.

Hyena: Howl of the Pack
F2 summons an additional hyena. Cripple is useful.

Cave Spider: Weakening Venom
F2 inflicts weakness and vulnerability. Cripple is useful.

Forest Spider: Deadly Venom
F2 inflicts poison. Cripple is useful.

PsionicDingo.2065:

First I’ve ever heard of this. I’d love to hear more.

Found the interview.

http://tap-repeatedly.com/2011/06/exclusive-interview-arenanets-jon-peters-and-jonathan-sharp/

(Guild Wars 2 Guru Community Member) Diovid of the Land: We know that the guardian used to be a non-magical knight-like profession and that a marksman and warden profession were considered. Why did the Marksman and Warden (and possibly other professions) not make it in, and what did they do exactly? Why did the other professions make it in and why in the form they are in now?

Jon P: The marksman and warden eventually became the ranger. We had a profession that was called the juggernaut, for lack of a better name! It was basically a non-magical knight profession. At some stage we also talked about the engineer being a heavy armored profession, and then he became medium. Things move around a lot, but why things don’t make it is because people who may have played the juggernaut would have really chosen warrior instead, and it’s just taking away from the flavour of the warrior to have things too similar to it.

Ginko (GW2G): The ranger is supposed to be the pet profession, and bringing a pet is always supposed to improve the performance of the ranger. In all of the demos so far, most rangers didn’t bother to have their pet with them during combat; they either died quickly or didn’t seem to do much when they were around. Considering the ranger class was intended to be the class that specifically focuses on playing with a pet, what does the design team want ranger/pet gameplay to be like at launch? What kinds of gameplay is ArenaNet trying to foster for the ranger so that the pet and ranger work together instead of the pet simply being similar to a random melee ally?

Jon P: I think the ranger pets are terrible right now, no one would argue with that! If you wanted to talk about least played profession, the ranger would probably be it. We’ve been making A.I changes which are slowly propagating to the pets right now, while we’ve also been looking into more radical things with the pets.

Right now the pets feel like this thing you have, rather than a part of your character. Like those other professions that have undergone some radical changes, I’m hoping by the next time we show the game, or certainly before we ship, the ranger pet will have that synergy. That’s one of the biggest failings we have right now. For those that are concerned, we are also concerned but we aren’t concerned that we won’t fix it, just not right now. We are going to make it feel synergistic, but it just takes time.

Someone remember the names of those professions?

Marksman + bits of Warden and Beastmaster plucked from the cutting room floor, if you go by what the Wiki says their ‘Making Of’ book states.

I don’t think you’re missing anything OP. There’s quite a few traits flying around that are headscratchers, and I tend to think this is one of them.

Well, just to be clear, that interview was over a year prior to release. If you watch demos from then, pets were in a terrible state. There was no way to control them (literally) and they sort of randomly ran around the map. It was really alpha. I think at that time rangers had a slot skill called camouflage (10s stealth so long as you stay in place), however, standing still with stealth was decided to be next to useless and running around with it was too thief like so they changed it to Hide in Plain Sight and a couple limited versions of stealth like “Guard” and the jaguar’s stealth attack.

Well it could be argued that it is somewhat useful as a cover condition.

So if one immobilized and crippled with wolf and the enemy tried to cure the immobilize or it was removed passively through a trait or skill, then the enemy wouldn’t be able to cure immobilize and only the cripple first.

Of course this would only apply to single condi cleanses not mass cures like the active on SoR for ranger. But it could be useful in this sense to cover a more dangerous condition like fear, chill, or immobilize.

Furthermore, once immobilize runs out if the enemy chose not to cure it or was unable to, then they still are crippled allowing the ranger and pet to whack away a while longer. However, all of this is based on the premise that cripple is applied after the other conditions, which I don’t know because I personally never use this trait.

Overall I agree the trait is pretty worthless though.

Mcrocha.3891:

Well it could be argued that it is somewhat useful as a cover condition.

So if one immobilized and crippled with wolf and the enemy tried to cure the immobilize or it was removed passively through a trait or skill, then the enemy wouldn’t be able to cure immobilize and only the cripple first.

Of course this would only apply to single condi cleanses not mass cures like the active on SoR for ranger. But it could be useful in this sense to cover a more dangerous condition like fear, chill, or immobilize.

Furthermore, once immobilize runs out if the enemy chose not to cure it or was unable to, then they still are crippled allowing the ranger and pet to whack away a while longer. However, all of this is based on the premise that cripple is applied after the other conditions, which I don’t know because I personally never use this trait.

Overall I agree the trait is pretty worthless though.

I don’t think condition cleansing works that way, I believe certain conditions have a higher cleanse priority regardless of the order in which they were stacked, but I may be mistaken. I seem to remember burning being the first to wipe though. Can someone confirm? This is actually important to know for improving your game.

Well according to gw2 wiki:

“Conditions can be removed by condition removal. For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first. The condition is removed independent of the intensity, so 3 stacks and 25 stacks of bleeding are equivalent when considering condition removal.”

I assume this means that no condis have higher priority since intensity doesn’t matter either. Now that I read it though it says that most recently applied conditions plural, so I am curious if condi removal would cleanse both a wolf’s immobilize and cripple, but I doubt it.

Edit: Also condi removal worked this way in gw1 which is why I assumed it was the same and that the most recently applied conditions are removed first.

Mcrocha.3891:

Well according to gw2 wiki:

“Conditions can be removed by condition removal. For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first. The condition is removed independent of the intensity, so 3 stacks and 25 stacks of bleeding are equivalent when considering condition removal.”

I assume this means that no condis have higher priority since intensity doesn’t matter either. Now that I read it though it says that most recently applied conditions plural, so I am curious if condi removal would cleanse both a wolf’s immobilize and cripple, but I doubt it.

Edit: Also condi removal worked this way in gw1 which is why I assumed it was the same and that the most recently applied conditions are removed first.

Oh ok, in that case I was mistaken That’s an interesting piece of info though, it implies you should stack your weaker conditions last. I guess the shortbow bleeds etc. are really useful in that respect, and it might cause me to re-evaluate the utility of the Sharpened Edges trait.

Sorry for straying off topic, but I guess I’m allowed because I’m the OP

It’s an exceptional trait for forest spider and cave spider though. Too bad the awesomeness of it is reduced to nothing because of the poison aoe attack.

You want to talk about a stupid trait in the BM line though, how about Stability Training (VIII): Ursine, porcine, and armor fish pets gain stability (3s) when disabled.

I want to use that trait soooo badly lol.

I’ve always wanted a trait that shares boons between both the ranger and pet, Fortifying Bond is not enough and is in the kitten Nature’s Magic line. However, I think it would be a great replacement for Zephyr’s Speed for 5 pts in Beastmastery, especially if it shared boons between both the ranger and the pet.

If this were the case, then all of those traits giving boons to the pet and any boons they picked up from other allies would also aid the ranger, and I think this would actually be pretty powerful and would gel with the premise of the ranger-beastmaster character.

I really dislike all of the pet family-specific traits

Doug.9628:

I really dislike all of the pet family-specific traits

This.

Consider a wolf. The wolf would both fear and immobilize. Usually an immobilized person can dodge, right? If said person is also feared, then the guy cannot dodge. That possibility is at least interesting to think about. I don’t often use this trait, though, maybe someone can show us a cool way to use it?

Chopps.5047:

Consider a wolf. The wolf would both fear and immobilize. Usually an immobilized person can dodge, right? If said person is also feared, then the guy cannot dodge. That possibility is at least interesting to think about. I don’t often use this trait, though, maybe someone can show us a cool way to use it?

Wolf’s fear skill with cripple + Shortbow cripple into snow leopard’s Icy Pounce. Attack all the while. :P

Just something to think about. I have no idea what it’d be like, really. It’d definitely screw up a runner, that’s for sure.

rangers as a class was created in 24h, don’t be surprised to have useless traits, pets, weapons, elite skills, utilities.

Nuka Cola.8520:

rangers as a class was created in 24h, don’t be surprised to have useless traits, pets, weapons, elite skills, utilities.

Interesting that you have so much in depth knowledge of how anet made this game. You must be a dev.

how bout letting them move while casting?

zTales.4392:

Chopps.5047:

Consider a wolf. The wolf would both fear and immobilize. Usually an immobilized person can dodge, right? If said person is also feared, then the guy cannot dodge. That possibility is at least interesting to think about. I don’t often use this trait, though, maybe someone can show us a cool way to use it?

Wolf’s fear skill with cripple + Shortbow cripple into snow leopard’s Icy Pounce. Attack all the while. :P

Just something to think about. I have no idea what it’d be like, really. It’d definitely screw up a runner, that’s for sure.

What use is cripple on a feared opponent? In fact it’s counterproductive, he won’t run as far away from you. They could at least change the effect to “your next attack causes cripple”, instead of cripple directly on F2. Then you could wait for the fear / immobilize from your pet’s F2 to subside before hitting them with a new cripple.

I don’t understand why these traits need to be family specific anyway, why can’t we just choose between bleed on crit, cripple on F2, stability on disable, and AoE vigor on activation, for any pet? They’d become a lot more useful, in line with the utility of other master traits.

Daemon.4295:

Intimidation Training (BM IX): Activated (F2) abilities for canines and spiders cause cripple.

Am I missing something, or is this just a really poorly thought out trait? Below is a list of all canine and spider pets and their F2 abilities, cripple is partially or entirely wasted for 5 of the 9 pets this trait affects.

Alpine Wolf: Chilling Howl
F2 chills for 4 seconds. Cripple is wasted.

Fern Hound: Regenerate
F2 grants regeneration. Cripple is useful.

Krytan Drakehound: Intimidating Howl
F2 immobilizes foes for 2 seconds. 2 out of 4 seconds of cripple are wasted.

Wolf: Terrifying howl
F2 causes fear for 2 seconds. 2 out of 4 seconds of cripple are wasted.

Hyena: Howl of the Pack
F2 summons an additional hyena. Cripple is useful.

Black Widow: Paralyzing Venom
F2 immobilizes foes for 3 or 4 seconds (according to wiki). Cripple is wasted.

Cave Spider: Weakening Venom
F2 inflicts weakness and vulnerability. Cripple is useful.

Forest Spider: Deadly Venom
F2 inflicts poison. Cripple is useful.

Jungle Spider: Paralyzing Venom
F2 immobilizes foes for 3 or 4 seconds (according to wiki). Cripple is wasted.

EDIT: Weird language filtering

Imo all the mid-tier traits for beastmaster are pathetic. Some pets get stability… right after they needed it, but not on some things (such as knockdowns) while others get token bleeding on critical hits, ect.
The beta’s were perhaps too specialised (bears and ONLY bears got stability with one for example) but while they’re more accessible now, they’re really not worth considering imo. I take two minor traits I think that little of the master traits right now.

Super Riceman.8702:

how bout letting them move while casting?

Too complicated. Maybe they could bring some outside help to code pet/minion ai that is able to hit moving targets. I’d gladly chip in the costs for that :P

Some of you people need to seriously relax. Is the game perfect? Of course not. Is expecting perfection realistic? Of course not. Until the big guy upstairs gets into the MMO development business, I would lower your expectations a bit.

Now that’s not to say we can’t all work to fix & improve the game, but maybe consider toning down ur displeasure.

1-cover condition.
2-crippling during fear is good.

It is a bad trait, but not useless.

garethh.3518:

1-cover condition.
2-crippling during fear is good.

It is a bad trait, but not useless.

How is crippling during fear good? Maybe it would be easier for your wolf to pounce on them but most of the time you want distance between you and you enemy, hence the fear. In other aspects of the game like pvp you want to fear people off the nodes so the cripple is useless. The only thing the trait is decent for is for running away and using your pet’s howl to cover your escape.

But speaking of bad traits. Companion’s might. 1s of 1 might given to pet when you crit.

Eurantien.4632:

garethh.3518:

1-cover condition.
2-crippling during fear is good.

It is a bad trait, but not useless.

How is crippling during fear good? Maybe it would be easier for your wolf to pounce…

There are other ranger specs and uses for a fear.
I promise.

Think.

“Some of you people need to seriously relax. Is the game perfect? Of course not. Is expecting perfection realistic? Of course not. Until the big guy upstairs gets into the MMO development business, I would lower your expectations a bit.
Now that’s not to say we can’t all work to fix & improve the game, but maybe consider toning down ur displeasure.”

Is it a matter of trying to obtain perfection or is it a matter of simple, common sense? I mean seriously, you can clearly tell the developers didn’t look at this trait when they implemented it and thought ‘hey they get another snare , alright move on to the next thing’ without actually testing and looking at it.

I don’t know, if you put a dumb trait like this and pass it into the game, you’re gonna get called out for it and some of the responses won’t be friendly and this isn’t the 1st thread on this trait specifically, it’s been called out before, and of course, like all developer trends with our class, it was and is still ignored to this day and this thread won’t bring any difference on that until it needs to be fixed across more than just the ranger class, then they’ll pump out an update for it.

The trend is monthly for us in terms of patches from developer’s standpoint: They get forum thread regarding issues with the class. They wait until it’s an issue that needs to be fixed across more than 1-2 classes, pump out the fix for all classes then nerf something of the ranger to compensate for the fix you just gave multiple classes.

Ryan.8367:

Is it a matter of trying to obtain perfection or is it a matter of simple, common sense? I mean seriously, you can clearly tell the developers didn’t look at this trait when they implemented it and thought ‘hey they get another snare , alright move on to the next thing’ without actually testing and looking at it.

It used to be aoe stability, the cripple was their attempt at a nerf.

Yes it was badly made, it shows how little thought they really put into what skills/traits/weapons should do, they seemingly just took token concepts and a few cool ideas, threw them in giving the all the traits/utilities/weapons a base, then marginally tweaked adjusted stuff until they were ‘not OP’…

Coming up with great, insightful PvP like that is about as likely as hitting a bulseye with a dart in the dark.

Guys have you heard of Companion’s Might?
I really wanted to be there when this trait was born
Devs sitting in a table
“Now lets add this trait to Rangers to fill a trait slot,i dont know,i dont want something OP,just a worthless trait that noone will ever use..Ok,pets seems a lot of disfuctional so lets give em 1 stack of might for 1 sec…” everyone laughed and had a great time