Guild Wars 2

I’m trying to find a reason as to why not just play a dragonhunter (DH) instead of long bow ranger.

I’m sorry if this seems like a rant, I don’t mean it to be, I’d just like to have a discussion. To clarify, when I talk about the skills, I’ll focus on the Longbow skills respectively, unless otherwise specified.

It seems that rangers get the short end of the stick when it comes to clear/damage spread with their bow. You have to take marksman spec, which is decent-ish at best, in order to have piercing arrows. Now even then, you need to have positioning in your favor to clip more than just 1 target.

Yet, dragon hunter barely needs positioning, and gets a bouncing arrow (similar to theif’s short bow auto if you haven’t watched the spotlight.) It also cripples targets on bounce.

The 2 skill on the ranger is pretty good, nice burst and low cooldown. Yet, you once again need piercing shot in order to spread the damage. DH’s 2 is a 1 shot burst equivalent (ish) to if all your Ranger “2” skill arrows hit, and it pierces (fairly wide too as far as I can tell.)

DH doesn’t have to rely on a pet to observe the same damage as other classes. While pet’s aren’t always an issue, all too often are pets lagging behind (terrain..), dead or just bugging out.

Ranger’s 3 grants you stealth, it’s awesome and fun. DH gives you a shot canceling enemy missiles in it’s path. That’s probably very hard to pull off, but assuming you play on high tier, you might be able to semi predict an incoming harmful hit (including a few of Ranger’s “2” shots.) If anything, it might end up getting your enemy to try and bait the shot out.

Ranger’s 4 shot is a knock back. It’s awesome in many ways. Hints to kiting, the DH’s is awesome aoe. Ranger’s 5 is aoe damage, DH’s 5 is the same, twice the cooldown but it has entangled root-like CC…

DH’s passives allow for burn damage without having to use a trap or weapon. One could argue that pets do that, true, but micromanaging a pet is a lot harder than pressing F1 and getting an immediate result should enemies come close to you. They also have a given leap (F2) that heals you. The F3 gives you an aoe shield..

What’s everyone thought process about this? While I love everything about the ranger class (Agile Marksman kind of deal) It seems overshadowed ability-wise by the dargon-hunter. More spread damage, passive punishment (F1) in close range, (F2) leap-kite/heal, (F3) protection. No pet reliance (that’s a big thing for me, personally) and even arguably more CC.

PS: I know that none of us (likely) have tried the spec, and it’s all very speculative, but why not discuss it with the information we have now, and see how it fairs this weekend/at release.

It seems that rangers get the short end of the stick when it comes to clear/damage spread with their bow. You have to take marksman spec, which is decent-ish at best, in order to have piercing arrows. Now even then, you need to have positioning in your favor to clip more than just 1 target.

Why do you need piercing arrows? I like remorseless more than Lead the Wind. Piercing AoE is the worst kind of AoE.

Yet, dragon hunter barely needs positioning, and gets a bouncing arrow (similar to theif’s short bow auto if you haven’t watched the spotlight.) It also cripples targets on bounce.

Dragon Hunter can’t escape well without infiltrator shot or Hunter’s shot.

The 2 skill on the ranger is pretty good, nice burst and low cooldown. Yet, you once again need piercing shot in order to spread the damage. DH’s 2 is a 1 shot burst equivalent (ish) to if all your Ranger “2” skill arrows hit, and it pierces (fairly wide too as far as I can tell.)

And True shot is 1200 range.

DH doesn’t have to rely on a pet to observe the same damage as other classes. While pet’s aren’t always an issue, all too often are pets lagging behind (terrain..), dead or just bugging out.

Clearly, you haven’t seen your pet save you with knockdowns.

Ranger’s 3 grants you stealth, it’s awesome and fun. DH gives you a shot canceling enemy missiles in it’s path. That’s probably very hard to pull off, but assuming you play on high tier, you might be able to semi predict an incoming harmful hit (including a few of Ranger’s “2” shots.) If anything, it might end up getting your enemy to try and bait the shot out.

Stealth wins over small reflect. There is a ton of utility with stealth but reflecting shot is purely defensive and useless against melee players.

DH’s passives allow for burn damage without having to use a trap or weapon. One could argue that pets do that, true, but micromanaging a pet is a lot harder than pressing F1 and getting an immediate result should enemies come close to you. They also have a given leap (F2) that heals you. The F3 gives you an aoe shield..

Why would a power build need condi damage?

Ranger is not getting the short end of the stick. I think it is the opposite. DH just can’t live up to Ranger Longbow. But I guess that the sick Reflect virtue is cool.

Why not play a DH? Because its not going to be a “better Ranger”, its going to be a DH.

Guardians have some intentional weaknesses: Bad mobility, Bad HP, Bad Ranged Damage, Long CD heals.

This elite specialization essentially takes the edge off of some of those: it gives them a leap, a 30 sec heal option that will be traitable to be shorter, and a better ranged weapon than scepter.

Make no mistake, their intentional weaknesses are still exactly that, and while DH offers improvements it doesn’t revert the intentional design of the Guardian. The leap has a long cd and is only 600. The heal can’t be used defensively, 90% of the healing comes on forcing some dumb sap to step on it (which is hilarious if you consider LB means not in melee range to force a trigger), and the DH longbow is not going to compete with Ranger longbow for ranged pressure, its just going to be “better than scepter.”

Rangers have intentional weaknesses too: Our pets and spirits aren’t there to help us, they’re there to be balls and chains that hold us back from reaching our potential. Our best offensive, defensive and group buffing skills are completely negated if we don’t spend our time playing mother nurse to our juvenile delinquents and our spirits. Druid mechanics and weapons will certainly take the edge off those problems without doing anything to actually address them.

R Longbow vs DH Longbow:
1500 range heavy auto attack vs 1200 range moderate auto that can bounce backwards only and if it does, cripples.
Winner: Situation dependent. Personally, most of the time I’d want the range. Bounces are valuable in zerg fights, but in zergs the Ranger will trait for piercing. There is no indication that will be an option for DH.

Rapid fire vs True Shot
Winner: Rapid fire. Rapid fire does more damage, can’t be dodged with just a single dodge, tracks against stealthers, and as discussed piercing is traitable.

Hunters Shot vs Deflecting Shot
Winner: Hunters shot. Stealth is like blinding everyone thats trying to hit you. Covers heals, repositioning, Maul.

Point Blank Shot vs Symbol of Energy
Winner: This really can’t be called. They serve different purposes completely. Barrage is a better comparison. Let’s say PBS is the winner in terms of CC / interrupt, and Symbol of Energy gets a fair fight against other aoe skills?

Barrage vs Symbol of Energy and Hunter’s Ward:
Winner: Symbol of Energy and Hunter’s Ward. Barrage is about tags and getting a few hits on things you can’t directly target. For that purpose, Symbol of energies much lower cooldown + combofield + symbol synergy with core guardian traits on one quick shot makes it better than barrages aoe on a 2.5 second channel. Hunter’s Ward is cool too, adding a sort of damaging “swiss cheese line of warding” effect, but the huge cooldown makes it pretty mediocre. Mostly this will be used for a hail marry hope-i-trap-someone shot so that the guardian or his friend’s can blow up the prisoner(s).

Ranger gets 1500 range. They can trait for 10% faster attack and piercing on everything. They can trait for quickdraw to double up on a LB skill of their choice. They have lots of skills that grant mobility, swiftness, evades, they have numerous pets and skills that are very effective and slowing, fearing, knocking down or otherwise crowd controlling the enemy. All of those things synergize with the bow, and they are all things the guardian isn’t good at.

Ranger LB is a fully functional primary weapon. DH LB is a secondary weapon that is taken to add some range utility to your otherwise melee orientated guardian, so that they aren’t completely f’d when their limited gap closers are on cd, and so they can participate in some combat situations that demand ranged weapons.

Ranger longbow has always been about superior range. The longest range in the game for any weapon. Now it’s even baseline together with superior projectile speed which will hit targets at any range.

We’ll have to see how Dragonhunter longbow is. Maybe it’ll have the slow projectile speed Rangers used to have, maybe they’ll have the same speed baseline. Either way, they’ll be shorter range.

This is fine for PvP and duelling, so yes Guardian longbow could be better, but not in WvW. And since I only play WvW, I’m not worried.

dragonhunter auto-attack isn’t going to be very good, I think it only cripples IF it bounces, not all the time. That’s a worse condition than flanking on Ranger shortbow.

runeblade.7514:

It seems that rangers get the short end of the stick when it comes to clear/damage spread with their bow. You have to take marksman spec, which is decent-ish at best, in order to have piercing arrows. Now even then, you need to have positioning in your favor to clip more than just 1 target.

Why do you need piercing arrows? I like remorseless more than Lead the Wind. Piercing AoE is the worst kind of AoE.

Yet, dragon hunter barely needs positioning, and gets a bouncing arrow (similar to theif’s short bow auto if you haven’t watched the spotlight.) It also cripples targets on bounce.

Dragon Hunter can’t escape well without infiltrator shot or Hunter’s shot.

The 2 skill on the ranger is pretty good, nice burst and low cooldown. Yet, you once again need piercing shot in order to spread the damage. DH’s 2 is a 1 shot burst equivalent (ish) to if all your Ranger “2” skill arrows hit, and it pierces (fairly wide too as far as I can tell.)

And True shot is 1200 range.

DH doesn’t have to rely on a pet to observe the same damage as other classes. While pet’s aren’t always an issue, all too often are pets lagging behind (terrain..), dead or just bugging out.

Clearly, you haven’t seen your pet save you with knockdowns.

Ranger’s 3 grants you stealth, it’s awesome and fun. DH gives you a shot canceling enemy missiles in it’s path. That’s probably very hard to pull off, but assuming you play on high tier, you might be able to semi predict an incoming harmful hit (including a few of Ranger’s “2” shots.) If anything, it might end up getting your enemy to try and bait the shot out.

Stealth wins over small reflect. There is a ton of utility with stealth but reflecting shot is purely defensive and useless against melee players.

DH’s passives allow for burn damage without having to use a trap or weapon. One could argue that pets do that, true, but micromanaging a pet is a lot harder than pressing F1 and getting an immediate result should enemies come close to you. They also have a given leap (F2) that heals you. The F3 gives you an aoe shield..

Why would a power build need condi damage?

Ranger is not getting the short end of the stick. I think it is the opposite. DH just can’t live up to Ranger Longbow. But I guess that the sick Reflect virtue is cool.

lolololol

You talk about stealth and knockdowns as if guardians don’t have blind, aegis, renewed focus, judge’s intervention, and shelter as mitigation/escape options.

We’re talking about the most survivable class outside a cele d/d ele ingame.

Ranger longbow is garbage. It has less aoe damage, DH #2 is more DPS than rapid fire (lower cooldown relative to damage output), the entire weapon has far more group utility and actual CC, unlike that garbage barrage.

It’s lovely you talk about pet saving you as if the pet lives through any engagement with more than 5-10 people involved.

Duels/roaming =/= class value. Dueling/roaming is a virtually useless activity, it contributes nothing to your realm compared to larger skirmishes and objectives.

And if you want a dueling ranged class, you should have rolled mesmer.

Zenith.7301:

runeblade.7514:

It seems that rangers get the short end of the stick when it comes to clear/damage spread with their bow. You have to take marksman spec, which is decent-ish at best, in order to have piercing arrows. Now even then, you need to have positioning in your favor to clip more than just 1 target.

Why do you need piercing arrows? I like remorseless more than Lead the Wind. Piercing AoE is the worst kind of AoE.

Yet, dragon hunter barely needs positioning, and gets a bouncing arrow (similar to theif’s short bow auto if you haven’t watched the spotlight.) It also cripples targets on bounce.

Dragon Hunter can’t escape well without infiltrator shot or Hunter’s shot.

The 2 skill on the ranger is pretty good, nice burst and low cooldown. Yet, you once again need piercing shot in order to spread the damage. DH’s 2 is a 1 shot burst equivalent (ish) to if all your Ranger “2” skill arrows hit, and it pierces (fairly wide too as far as I can tell.)

And True shot is 1200 range.

DH doesn’t have to rely on a pet to observe the same damage as other classes. While pet’s aren’t always an issue, all too often are pets lagging behind (terrain..), dead or just bugging out.

Clearly, you haven’t seen your pet save you with knockdowns.

Ranger’s 3 grants you stealth, it’s awesome and fun. DH gives you a shot canceling enemy missiles in it’s path. That’s probably very hard to pull off, but assuming you play on high tier, you might be able to semi predict an incoming harmful hit (including a few of Ranger’s “2” shots.) If anything, it might end up getting your enemy to try and bait the shot out.

Stealth wins over small reflect. There is a ton of utility with stealth but reflecting shot is purely defensive and useless against melee players.

DH’s passives allow for burn damage without having to use a trap or weapon. One could argue that pets do that, true, but micromanaging a pet is a lot harder than pressing F1 and getting an immediate result should enemies come close to you. They also have a given leap (F2) that heals you. The F3 gives you an aoe shield..

Why would a power build need condi damage?

Ranger is not getting the short end of the stick. I think it is the opposite. DH just can’t live up to Ranger Longbow. But I guess that the sick Reflect virtue is cool.

lolololol

You talk about stealth and knockdowns as if guardians don’t have blind, aegis, renewed focus, judge’s intervention, and shelter as mitigation/escape options.

We’re talking about the most survivable class outside a cele d/d ele ingame.

Ranger longbow is garbage. It has less aoe damage, DH #2 is more DPS than rapid fire (lower cooldown relative to damage output), the entire weapon has far more group utility and actual CC, unlike that garbage barrage.

It’s lovely you talk about pet saving you as if the pet lives through any engagement with more than 5-10 people involved.

Duels/roaming =/= class value. Dueling/roaming is a virtually useless activity, it contributes nothing to your realm compared to larger skirmishes and objectives.

And if you want a dueling ranged class, you should have rolled mesmer.

sPvP = class value. WvW zerging =/= class value. As far as I know, sPvP is 1v1, 1v2,2v2,2v3,1v3,3v4,5v5, etc etc.

Until we see the class in action, it’s all pure speculation.

It will all depend on whether the DD Cele is OP or not. If it remains OP then every elite spec, including the DH will be trash tier. Same goes for most of the base classes.

Imagine a ranger with less mobility and more cc. They are gonna dish out some serious damage, but will struggle when getting focused down.

DH seems like it will be good at setting up big hits with their traps.

They also seem to work somewhat well with meditation or even spirits.

In pvp its going to be hard for them to fulfill niche rolls that other dps classes offer.

Dragon hunter will be the ultimate backline support or frontline with massive commander focus. Image 3 dh whos just spike down the commander with skill #2. And also it has super low cd

I’d still take a ranger for roaming over a DH, which is more like a slow tank (that can get spiked down when shields are on cd). But of course this is just pure speculation as we dont know the final damage numbers. In the end the DH could be slow in mobility and damage, but still hit harder per hit so that the DPS evens out in a fight. Which can also be a downside, like the reaper, if the enemy mechanic can outmaneuver you.

At least they cant be bearbows!

Brother, I’m certain a crapload of guardians would trade dragonhunter’s bs for druid (assuming druid is supporty).

You missed on the fact that a ranger’s long bow has better range.

Rapid fire vs true shot. True shot is a reskin of pin down minus the conditions. On its own, its far too easy to dodge, but its a great baiting tool.

Stealth arrow vs projectile destruction. Stealth, nuff said.

Knockback arrow vs vigor symbol. Now, the knockback arrow is veeeeery potent, but one shouldn’t forget that dragon hunters get that kitten passively too. The aoe vigor makes this one of the most powerful symbols available to guardian (and if traited for) can be both a ridiculously powerful offensive and defensive tool. When you consider all that can be done with the symbol and the fact that guardian still gets to knock people back, the symbol wins by a looooooong shot.

Ranger barrage vs dragonhunter barrage. The ranger barrage is more flexible while less potent and vice versa for the dragonhunter.

Here’s the issue though, you can’t just compare weapon on weapon. I can see that you’re trying to reach a general conclusion because dealing with all of the specifics would make this conversation more complex and harder to deal with, but you don’t actually have to go that deep into it.

Let’s take assumed meta builds when the xpac comes out. You got your usual lb/GS power ranger with their usual setup (I’m hoping a more experienced player could bring up more in depth points on these) and then you have your lb/hammer guardian (some might choose GS, but I feel like hammer is stronger here). The guardian rolls with mediations, valor/virtues/dragon hunter (or could swap virtues out for zeal or honor, but virtues is just too good). What does the guardian have access to? 8k of more or less on demand heals (not counting shelter here because shelter is used for the block primarily) with loads of condition cleansing, three decent gap closing abilities, two decent gap opening abilities, a good chunk of damage mitigation, better armor but less HP. In terms of CC, he’s got that by the kitten (lb 1,2,3 within less than 600 range is a knock back), lb 1 is a cripple, lb 5 is a straight root/ward. Hammer gives you an immobilize, a knock back and another ward. If traited for, if I recall correctly, wings can cripple when you land on an enemy and deal some decent damage, which is a great way to start with your hammer lockdown.

As far as dragonhunter vs lb ranger goes, I’m afraid lb ranger will officially die when the xpac comes out, since hambow dragonhunter is just so much more mechanically rich and can do so much alone and for his party. I’m fairly certain that when the xpac drops, the new specs will dominate the meta not because of sheer power, but rather because of how complete they are as a class. I’m guessing druid will knock bunker guard out entirely, so guardian players may swap to ranger and vice versa, but as you said op, time will tell.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Brother, I’m certain a crapload of guardians would trade dragonhunter’s bs for druid (assuming druid is supporty).

You missed on the fact that a ranger’s long bow has better range.

Rapid fire vs true shot. True shot is a reskin of pin down minus the conditions. On its own, its far too easy to dodge, but its a great baiting tool.

Stealth arrow vs projectile destruction. Stealth, nuff said.

Knockback arrow vs vigor symbol. Now, the knockback arrow is veeeeery potent, but one shouldn’t forget that dragon hunters get that kitten passively too. The aoe vigor makes this one of the most powerful symbols available to guardian (and if traited for) can be both a ridiculously powerful offensive and defensive tool. When you consider all that can be done with the symbol and the fact that guardian still gets to knock people back, the symbol wins by a looooooong shot.

Ranger barrage vs dragonhunter barrage. The ranger barrage is more flexible while less potent and vice versa for the dragonhunter.

Here’s the issue though, you can’t just compare weapon on weapon. I can see that you’re trying to reach a general conclusion because dealing with all of the specifics would make this conversation more complex and harder to deal with, but you don’t actually have to go that deep into it.

Let’s take assumed meta builds when the xpac comes out. You got your usual lb/GS power ranger with their usual setup (I’m hoping a more experienced player could bring up more in depth points on these) and then you have your lb/hammer guardian (some might choose GS, but I feel like hammer is stronger here). The guardian rolls with mediations, valor/virtues/dragon hunter (or could swap virtues out for zeal or honor, but virtues is just too good). What does the guardian have access to? 8k of more or less on demand heals (not counting shelter here because shelter is used for the block primarily) with loads of condition cleansing, three decent gap closing abilities, two decent gap opening abilities, a good chunk of damage mitigation, better armor but less HP. In terms of CC, he’s got that by the kitten (lb 1,2,3 within less than 600 range is a knock back), lb 1 is a cripple, lb 5 is a straight root/ward. Hammer gives you an immobilize, a knock back and another ward. If traited for, if I recall correctly, wings can cripple when you land on an enemy and deal some decent damage, which is a great way to start with your hammer lockdown.

As far as dragonhunter vs lb ranger goes, I’m afraid lb ranger will officially die when the xpac comes out, since hambow dragonhunter is just so much more mechanically rich and can do so much alone and for his party. I’m fairly certain that when the xpac drops, the new specs will dominate the meta not because of sheer power, but rather because of how complete they are as a class. I’m guessing druid will knock bunker guard out entirely, so guardian players may swap to ranger and vice versa, but as you said op, time will tell.

As far as wvw is concerned, it will be hard to justify losing a frontline guard to gain a backline guard.

How can you tell if Guard DH will be Better when we have no idea about Ranger Druid ?

IMHO .. not fair to compare a Elite vs Core

I keep seeing this thread bumped, so I’m going to say my piece. If you think Dragon Hunter is going to be a better LB Ranger, than you don’t understand Dragon Hunter or Ranger for that matter. But hey, Guardians have greatswords and shouts, and Rangers have greatswords and shouts. They’ve gotta be the same thing right? They couldn’t possibly serve different purposes.

And it would be wrong to think elite specs are any better than core classes, especially since you still take 2 core specs to your one elite. Elite specs only offer more options, not better options.

If Druid has good group support options and AoE, then LB/Staff will definitely be a thing and superior to DH LB/Staff or LB/H, imo. We shall see what the staff and druid traits bring.

for what we currently know what makes DH lb more fondly to get in parties is their core mechanic changes that seem more party firendly since the LB itself is very on par with ranger atm

we still dont know what the core mechanic change for druids will be, all we know (for the druid trait line icon in the wiki) is that will somehow will affect pets, and since pets are part of rangers utility and dmg a good core mechanic upgrade on them might very well help rangers LB be on par or even superior than lb DHs for parties. only the reveal will say

My thoughts are reserved at the moment. Each are going to play and offer something different. Personally, I can’t make a full comparison until I see the Druid spec since it may offer traits that can augment the Ranger longbow play-style.

Guys before HoT is released there can still be changes and even after that and like one person here has already said the whole idea with the elite specializations is to sacrifice some of what the class is currently GOOD at and improve in something that the class curently is very BAD at I for one dont think they will out do LB ranger but I can be wrong

lets not jump to any conclutions until we know everything since everyone said Revenant was going to be OP and then there was a beta test and everyone said they were the new worst class in game

sorry for my bad english

Zenith.7301:

Dueling/roaming is a virtually useless activity, it contributes nothing to your realm compared to larger skirmishes and objectives.

Pretty hard to have upgraded keeps/towers without camps/yaks. Even harder if your scouts can’t get between objectives without being killed.

Currently watching the BWE stream with someone on guardian

they have WAY BETTER animations for one. Their barrage 5 skill is freaking cool

their 2 skill is potentially nasty – its a 4 sec CD charged shot that deals over 1300 damage… just watched him hit a mesmer for 5k with charged shot… thats filthy for a 4sec cool doown. 1200 range thou and 2 sec casting time

their 1 skill is bouncing arrows that can cripple

4 skill is another AOE barrage but smaller. except it causes burning and drops a symbol as well.

ALL Their traps look amazing as well.

I’m sad. Guardian has a cooler bow and more useful traps… thanks anet

Now I dont think its as bursty as our long bow.. rapid fire is probably better than their 2 skill

yeah I always saw guardians as extremely religious people who litteraly whip themselves for no apparent reason, with all that lighty divine magic stuff. No they aren’t that cool, dude :p

SkiTz.4590:

Currently watching the BWE stream with someone on guardian

they have WAY BETTER animations for one. Their barrage 5 skill is freaking cool

their 2 skill is potentially nasty – its a 4 sec CD charged shot that deals over 1300 damage… just watched him hit a mesmer for 5k with charged shot… thats filthy for a 4sec cool doown. 1200 range thou and 2 sec casting time

their 1 skill is bouncing arrows that can cripple

4 skill is another AOE barrage but smaller. except it causes burning and drops a symbol as well.

ALL Their traps look amazing as well.

I’m sad. Guardian has a cooler bow and more useful traps… thanks anet

Now I dont think its as bursty as our long bow.. rapid fire is probably better than their 2 skill

Thats funny cuz if u head over to the guardian DH feedback thread everyone is stating it is a slow n sluggish spec pvp pov

nacario.9417:

SkiTz.4590:

Currently watching the BWE stream with someone on guardian

they have WAY BETTER animations for one. Their barrage 5 skill is freaking cool

their 2 skill is potentially nasty – its a 4 sec CD charged shot that deals over 1300 damage… just watched him hit a mesmer for 5k with charged shot… thats filthy for a 4sec cool doown. 1200 range thou and 2 sec casting time

their 1 skill is bouncing arrows that can cripple

4 skill is another AOE barrage but smaller. except it causes burning and drops a symbol as well.

ALL Their traps look amazing as well.

I’m sad. Guardian has a cooler bow and more useful traps… thanks anet

Now I dont think its as bursty as our long bow.. rapid fire is probably better than their 2 skill

Thats funny cuz if u head over to the guardian DH feedback thread everyone is stating it is a slow n sluggish spec pvp pov

yea it was in pvp.
Just looks cool as hell.
Its much slower rate of fire than ranger so its gonna miss a bunch

I’ll say that the guardians bow does have a better AOE thou

Ranger is still burstier and auto attack is fast and reliable to hit + we can stealth.

Seems guardian bow will be more support focused than DPS focused in PvP builds..

i don’t like stationary skill 2 on guardian longbow. i keep causing cd with no arrow ;-(

nacario.9417:

Thats funny cuz if u head over to the guardian DH feedback thread everyone is stating it is a slow n sluggish spec pvp pov

Well, while I made this thread not necessarily out of worry but for the sake of discussion, and I of course understand that things are subject to change, I have to agree with the Guardian DH thread.

Feels very slow.

tested and disliked DH

DH is sluggish and SLOW while rangers LB is still more mobility

pewpewpew power rangers FTW

now let me know what staff do for rangers ! range support or melee support?

I ran a DH earlier today; testing it a bit in WvW, PvP, and PvE. Sluggish, hard to use, and while it did decent damage I actually found myself often needing to swap out the traps and longbow for something that simply worked better. I died a lot.

Meanwhile, pvping 1v2 on my ranger and winning. So, while Dragonhunter sounds like Power Ranger+, it’s just not.

If you like Dragon Hunter more, good! Play Dragonhunter, your gameplay was just improved. You just need to get gear for it.

If you don’t like Dragon Hunter more, good! Keep playing Ranger.

Dragon Hunter should have a different playstyle or everyone would move to the heavy armor class. Rangers have more range and a pet. I’m glad some like and some dislike Dragon Hunter compared to Ranger.

coming from someone that has been maining ranger for 2 years DH longbow felt kinda like a lb ranger wanna be for me. good but kinda sluggish

Holland.9351:

dragonhunter auto-attack isn’t going to be very good, I think it only cripples IF it bounces, not all the time. That’s a worse condition than flanking on Ranger shortbow.

It also only bounces once, and only if the second enemy is behind your initial target.

The only DH longbow skills I thought were well done are the symbol of energy and the ward.

Why Dragonhunter? If you want to play more effective LB class try condi or celestial Warior, use trait which adds burning to your LB autoattack: dmg is higher, survivability is better. Autoatack dmg is just sick. And you can play it both way: condi or Power or mixture of both.
Oh and you don’t need to manage your stupid pets any more

Sifu.9745:

Why Dragonhunter? If you want to play more effective LB class try condi or celestial Warior, use trait which adds burning to your LB autoattack: dmg is higher, survivability is better. Autoatack dmg is just sick. And you can play it both way: condi or Power or mixture of both.
Oh and you don’t need to manage your stupid pets any more

I levelled my warrior after my Ranger and used LB in Straits of Devastation at lvl 50 to KTrain up to 80 in a couple of hours lol, it is even better now. That was before tomes or anything heh.

Why are we still talking about this ?

DH is a lot slower then a LB ranger ! Plus Anet said that DH is too powerful right now and need’s some tweaks and nerfs

Even if DH is better then Lb ( which i don’t think it is ) it’s not gonna stay that way

Also Guardian is a low-tier HP pool, Ranger is a mid-tier.

LOL! Nope. DH won’t be able to hold a candle to LB ranger. You’ll see. Will these Guardians be tough as s@%#. Yup. They’ll tank like a fortress. They’ll be obnoxious with their new toy bow but I highly doubt they’ll be able sustain damage and ranged pressure like the current LB Ranger can. I couldn’t agree with Runeblade more.

As far as I can predict…
… Dragon Hunter’s Longbow … Is going to be a swap-stick.

You might want to start a fight with it, and sometimes use some of it’s abilities if needed… But it doesn’t have the potential to work as a core weapon.

Ranger’s Longbow works as a self-sufficient weapon that works amazing with Ranger’s Kit overall. It has 2 abilities to save you from being focused (Stealth / short CD knockback). It also has a spike ability that is the hardest to mitigate since it has close to guaranteed 2 burst sigil procs regardless of how many times your enemy will dodge. And it can bait 2 rolls unlike DH’s spike.

What DH brings is definitely more utility. But you can’t build around utility alone. If you want to deal the damage with the spike – you are going to play full glass. And without self-sufficient tools like our Longbow – you are doomed as a Longbow Glass Guardian. Because a focused Ranger can reposition, bait abilities, force people out of node… Guardian can only bump his heal and elite… Making him live for 6 more seconds (which is our Signet) not baiting anything at all and dying in Zerk straight anyways.
Full Stop.

nope dragon hunter is no replacement for a ranger i like there traps a lot more then the bow

Nope. I’ve played DH and have to save while the traps are super cool and pretty animations the bow is slow. It has its moments but so far I’ve personally not found a built and/or weapon set that works well together.

I was going to try trap runes but they don’t let you. I even made a set, placed in my bank, and tried to pull them out – no luck. Can’t even see them. That could be interesting but again, I don’t think Rangers have much to worry about.

Different role / utility I think.

Crapgame.6519:

Nope. I’ve played DH and have to save while the traps are super cool and pretty animations the bow is slow. It has its moments but so far I’ve personally not found a built and/or weapon set that works well together.

I was going to try trap runes but they don’t let you. I even made a set, placed in my bank, and tried to pull them out – no luck. Can’t even see them. That could be interesting but again, I don’t think Rangers have much to worry about.

Different role / utility I think.

Try making a new guard beta with runes in bank. The account is copied at beta character creation.

Basically if you play the dragonhunter to its fantasy, aka longbow with trap focus.

And you then do the exact same thing with a ranger, aka Longbow with trap focus.

The ranger will come out on top, it’s just better in every possible scenario.

I wouldn’t go that far.
It’s not just longbow vs longbow or trap vs trap. It’s the whole package.

If anything, this is the Ranger longbow some people have been asking for:

• no pet
• charge-up skill
• immobilize on barrage
• more aoe
• better damage scaling

Those people might prefer it. I’m sticking with Ranger longbow if only for its range.

Justine.6351:

Crapgame.6519:

Nope. I’ve played DH and have to save while the traps are super cool and pretty animations the bow is slow. It has its moments but so far I’ve personally not found a built and/or weapon set that works well together.

I was going to try trap runes but they don’t let you. I even made a set, placed in my bank, and tried to pull them out – no luck. Can’t even see them. That could be interesting but again, I don’t think Rangers have much to worry about.

Different role / utility I think.

Try making a new guard beta with runes in bank. The account is copied at beta character creation.

Good idea. Tried it but it didn’t work

Justine.6351:

Zenith.7301:

Dueling/roaming is a virtually useless activity, it contributes nothing to your realm compared to larger skirmishes and objectives.

Pretty hard to have upgraded keeps/towers without camps/yaks. Even harder if your scouts can’t get between objectives without being killed.

Which are pretty much covered by zergs/larger skirmish groups.

That you think 1v1/roaming duelists are doing any meaningful contribution to objectives other than yak killing is hilarious.

1v1 people are in it for the ego boost. There’s good reason for the overflow of mesmer/thief/ele in WvW roaming, they’re the top 1v1 specs.

Crapgame.6519:

Justine.6351:

Crapgame.6519:

Nope. I’ve played DH and have to save while the traps are super cool and pretty animations the bow is slow. It has its moments but so far I’ve personally not found a built and/or weapon set that works well together.

I was going to try trap runes but they don’t let you. I even made a set, placed in my bank, and tried to pull them out – no luck. Can’t even see them. That could be interesting but again, I don’t think Rangers have much to worry about.

Different role / utility I think.

Try making a new guard beta with runes in bank. The account is copied at beta character creation.

Good idea. Tried it but it didn’t work

Your bank was copied at the start of beta, so now you can’t do it except maybe if you delete all your beta characters and start again but it probably doesn’t work.

Since I have no idea on how to quote on this forum…

@Holland.9351

Well, no matter how I tested it, it did not feel that way at all, I was interested in the dragonhunter for exactly the reasons you listed, but with full zerker gear and traits focused on damage, the ranger still outperformed the Dragonhunter by a far margin for me, and I tried several other configurations, in the end as someone who loves bows, I just couldnt find the motivation to play a Dragonhunter over a ranger, despite my dislike of pets, ranger just did everything better :/

Zenith.7301:

Justine.6351:

Zenith.7301:

Dueling/roaming is a virtually useless activity, it contributes nothing to your realm compared to larger skirmishes and objectives.

Pretty hard to have upgraded keeps/towers without camps/yaks. Even harder if your scouts can’t get between objectives without being killed.

Which are pretty much covered by zergs/larger skirmish groups.

That you think 1v1/roaming duelists are doing any meaningful contribution to objectives other than yak killing is hilarious.

1v1 people are in it for the ego boost. There’s good reason for the overflow of mesmer/thief/ele in WvW roaming, they’re the top 1v1 specs.

Roaming is fun. People play to have fun. Being a single roamer contributes by scouting, flipping camps, and tagging keeps, and killing yaks. Keeping keeps tagged for decoy (or to create longer runs back), and denying supply camps to keeps that need those supplies absolutely makes a difference. Scouting the enemy zerg absolutely makes a difference.

While the top 1v1 specs are certainly accounted for in roaming, from beta to today the most common thing i see roaming is some variant of GS warrior (certainly my experiences are anecdotal). Most common class, most common build, and lots and lots of speed. Not necessarily going to win a 1v1, but they know they can run away.

Rangers are and will always remain as the main strength of ranged combat for bows. The range on longbows goes beyond 1500.

Raven.9603:

Zenith.7301:

Justine.6351:

Zenith.7301:

Dueling/roaming is a virtually useless activity, it contributes nothing to your realm compared to larger skirmishes and objectives.

Pretty hard to have upgraded keeps/towers without camps/yaks. Even harder if your scouts can’t get between objectives without being killed.

Which are pretty much covered by zergs/larger skirmish groups.

That you think 1v1/roaming duelists are doing any meaningful contribution to objectives other than yak killing is hilarious.

1v1 people are in it for the ego boost. There’s good reason for the overflow of mesmer/thief/ele in WvW roaming, they’re the top 1v1 specs.

Roaming is fun. People play to have fun. Being a single roamer contributes by scouting, flipping camps, and tagging keeps, and killing yaks. Keeping keeps tagged for decoy (or to create longer runs back), and denying supply camps to keeps that need those supplies absolutely makes a difference. Scouting the enemy zerg absolutely makes a difference.

Yeah it rubs me wrong way when a zergling talks down on solo roamers. Zenith needs to try commanding ,both offensive and defensive, with no scouts/roamers on map.