Guild Wars 2

Is Ranger Class The “Blacksheep” OF The Classes?

Quick Answer, no.

In depth answer, no class is the black sheep class. While every class has its own problems, all of them are getting looked at equally from what I can tell. Though odds are somebody in the Necromancer subforum is going to ask this question as well, because they consider Rangers more well loved than them. rolls eyes

Juckums, I 2v1 all the time in WvW with my Ranger and win. I capture camps by myself, and hammer on zergs with a longbow. I’m not fully sure where you’re coming from.

Jackums.3496:

Razor.9872:

Juckums, I 2v1 all the time in WvW with my Ranger and win. I capture camps by myself, and hammer on zergs with a longbow. I’m not fully sure where you’re coming from.

Every time someone says a class is bad, or in any way not equal to the rest, you will get a forum warrior come in, declaring he can solo zergs, etc, etc.

I’m sure you can 2v1 effectively, and honestly, soloing a camp is no big feat. Any profession in the game can handle a bunch of NPC AI. In fact, a good player can make any class appear up to the standards of the other, simply more well-designed classes. None of the above invalidates my point. The Ranger is easily one of the worst WvW classes. Does that mean it’s not viable? No. Does that mean players cannot handle themselves with said profession? No. But, again, none of that changes the fact that the Ranger is largely dependent on a mechanic that gets completely obliterated by AoE in WvW zerg situations. No other class in the game is as dependent on its profession mechanic as the Ranger is, and considering the Ranger’s class mechanic is a bad AI that has no added resistance to AoE or the ability to dodge, I don’t see how you can argue that the Ranger isn’t beneath the other professions, as far as WvW is concerned.

As for the “hammer on zergs with a longbow” comment; sure, that’s viable if you go full glass cannon (which is still pretty much all glass and no cannon), which will get you downed in seconds in a 1v1 scenario against a good player that’s not playing an equally as mediocre build as your own. A LB Ranger is still going to be inferior to an Ele, Mesmer, Guardian, Necro, or Engineer in a zerg situation. A large chunk of their damage comes from their pet, which is, as we’ve established, borderline useless in large group scenarios. Then we have the LB, which is one of the most laughably easy-to-evade weapons in the game, particularly at long range (which is somewhat self-defeating of the weapon’s purpose considering its damage output is dependent on how far away you are from your target). A simple side-strafe is enough to dodge its arrows due to slow RoF.

“Every time someone says a class is bad, or in any way not equal to the rest, you will get a forum warrior come in, declaring he can solo zergs, etc, etc.”

Lol, yep, that’s me: the “Forum warrior.” I like the sound of it…

Anyway, while I understand your point, and partially agree, I still think you’re missing part of the picture. Yes, it is true that pets are pretty much a walking house of cards when they enter zerg AoE. So to send them directly into them solely for attack purposes is idiotic. This is why I only send them in to use their F2 skill (I use an alpine wolf and polar bear for the AoE chill). If they are about to die before they can pull it off, then a quick swap will save them.

Don’t get me wrong, I am also aware of the “damage division” between Rangers and their pets so they don’t become too op — and that, without the pet in action, the ranger’s attack power alone is less than adequate. While this should be an interesting problem for A-net to solve in the future, for now I just stay “selective.” By this I mean I pick out the stragglers, or squishy looking foes. Even though I’m spec’ed for toughness and regen, I’m also pretty decent in power (1900). I can get around 600-1100 damage a hit. I don’t expect this to do anything to armored foes, but glassy invaders fall pretty fast. By acting as the “chiseler,” per se, I can play my part in weakening the zerg as much as possible while others focus on the main body. Furthermore, I think the ranger has the best “selective” skills to do this. Since most of the bows skills are built for the purpose of single-target hitting. I’ve played other professions before — all lvl 80 — but never did I feel at a disadvantage when coming back to the ranger. Sure, I had to alter my play-style, but that’s to be expected.

If you still disagree with me, whether it be something I mistook or a thing I exaggerated, then perhaps it’s a fault on our part as well as the profession. By this I mean, maybe, the Ranger just simply isn’t cut out to combat zergs? Maybe they’re better than other professions at other things in WvW. They make great “siegers” for one — quickly taking down oil, cannons, and wall guards. What I’m trying to say is: while I agree the Ranger needs some serious work, I don’t think it’s as bad as you say it is when it comes to WvW.

In the end, it all comes down to the pet and its relationship to the Ranger. Although I can’t deny the handicap the pet puts on the player during zerg situations, my experience tells me that using the pet as an AoE condition (or boon for allies) applier while picking one target at a time will often lead me to success. Furthermore, the Barrage ability for the longbow not only applies mass, over-time AoE cripple, but it serves as a “zerg pusher” too. Since enemies rarely want to stay in a circle — no matter how weak it is.

If you still disagree with me, then I guess we should just let bygones be bygones, because I don’t have any more points to argue. Honestly, I think A-net should focus on making the Ranger’s Shouts and spirits more viable. Right now, they’re even more worse off than our pets. Not to mention the torch…you would think * Bonfire* would have a larger diameter. Right now, It’s more of a puddle that enemies can walk around rather than a circle of deadly flame that they would try to escape.

Yes,
I play WvW and the small group I run with audibly sigh with tears of sadness when I log into the ranger and not the thief. The sad part is I absolutely suck at playing the thief, although they constantly point out I can get a couple kills on the thief and we tend to win our equal sized fights and yet loose if I am on my main (aka the ranger).

So the issue presented in Bailey’s case isn’t so much that the Ranger is bad but that the Thief allows a bad player to still do “okay”.

This is why I hate the Thief class.

A regen ranger does pretty well in a zerg situation as the constant regen boon with fortifying bond will result in a surprisingly tanky pet. In fact, regen/healing is also a great way to support the zerg. Ranger may not be “the best” by your standardsbut they’re really not so bad. Crowd control / healing spring / signet of renewal really aren’t so bad. I don’t know if it’s best or optimal in terms of zerging — hey maybe we should all just play guardian (facepalm) — but, yeah, I don’t know if I agree with your assessment,
jack.

Regarding PvE – depends if you want the happy answer or the true answer:

-Happy answer: Of course not, no one is the black sheep here, we all love each other, and if someone refuses to group you he’s an elitist, a bad person full of prejudice who is probably a terrorist IRL. If a ranger tells you we’re bad, then he knows nothing about gw2, has no skills, he’s running around in blues and green and probably jumped into gw2 directly from tetris. Also, he eats kittens and punch babies..

-True answer: Yeah, used to be us and necros, now just us

@Aegis: tell that to the groups that run with me. I just get “wow, I was worried when I saw Ranger, but …”

It’s the same feeling I have when I see another Ranger or a Thief. They are so easy in open world PvE (Ranger) and PvP (Thief) that there are plenty of really bad players playing them. This puts a really bad stigma on those classes in dungeons where being bad because quite apparent … especially as you get higher in fractals.

Are there bugs? Yep.
Does the pet die in dungeons? Yep and the amount varies on the content and the ranger playing it.
Can the ranger still contribute quite a bit even with a dead pet? Yep.

Written from a WvW perspective.

Rangers are not given a choice to stow the pet at any time during combat. Pet AI is really lacking and at times (zerg fights pet ineffective, sieging structures pet ineffective, or ineffective while trying to escape a bad situation – there are many other situations too) is more of a liability than an asset. Pet animation is too slow and therefore can’t hit moving targets well at all, and there is a lack of attacks and control that we should have as rangers. IMO we need to have the ability to control all actions of our pets including all of their attacks. Bottom line is that if our pets could actually land an attack then we could be successful on offense but once we are put in a defensive situation we are at a great disadvantage with the current AI and lack of ability to stow the pet during combat. Pet AI is hard to get right but if Anet gets it right we will have a better opportunity at build diversity.

I’m not going to touch the lack of trait logic, spirit problems, lack of skill support for weapons, and sub par shouts. Rangers are broken in a sense that our current class is sub par in most aspects and that Pet AI is horrible. However, if all those items are fixed people would not be able to handle a ranger in the open battle field. Anet is scared to fix rangers b/c we would become OP do to the nature of having the pet which in essence is like being two players in one.

Don’t expect any great improvements to ranger b/c of this fear but expect they give us a little here and take a little there and in the end we are no better or worse off. It will keep your spirits up…parden the pun…I had to do it.

Sebrent.3625:

Can the ranger still contribute quite a bit even with a dead pet? Yep.

I concur. A Ranger with a dead pet contributes. It does so in a fashion similar to the way a crippled horse contributes to a team pulling a wagon.

That’s to say not equally.

@Togo: Rangers are already deadly on the open field. Take a look at the videos of good rangers. I agree that we run the risk of being OP if our pets’ AI gets fixed. However, I don’t agree with your conspiracy theory that their plan is to “keep us down”.

If you keep tabs on the news/interviews, ArenaNet has stated that they have changed their minds about not splitting skills too much between PvE, sPvP, and WvW. They are going to be doing more of this. I believe this was largely influenced by classes like the Ranger and Thief that are performing quite differently in each area of the game.

@Pedra: A well-played Ranger with a dead pet contributes more than an average played any other class, except Guardian since they can’t so much as wipe their own butts without someone else being healed or gaining a boon. Feel free to let everyone know what being so negative has gotten you. I still see no benefits from it.

As I’ve played more and more of my Ranger instead of my Mesmer, I’ve learned more and more that it is actually really close to where it should be and can already be extremely effective. I think the Ranger is simply harder to play than the Mesmer (and other classes … Mesmer isn’t a low skill floor) and that is exacerbated by a few of the bugs the Ranger is plagued by.

In sPvP, Ranger is sick. I could hold 4 people from the other team (1 guard, 1 ele, 1 necro, 1 something I don’t remember) while my team capped the other nodes. I did this in several pick-up matches. I was also able to kill other bunkers.

In WvW, Ranger suffers in disorganized zergs compared to those who can just blindly AOE, but they do quite well roaming and are a pivotal part of an optimized organized group.

In PvE, pets’ survivability could use some more love. Heck, simply taking away the increased swap time (why was that put in place, I’m curious about the logic here) would vastly improve this. However, the pet is not the entirety of the Ranger class and even with the pet dead we have more utility than I had ever initially realized.

Ranger is “hard”. Being a good Ranger is “really hard”. However, with that higher skill ceiling comes some really rewarding gameplay.

Furthermore, when people see a good Ranger, I’m pretty sure some of them mess their pants. That is well worth it ;-)

Sebrent.3625:

Pedra: Feel free to let everyone know what being so negative has gotten you. I still see no benefits from it.

The answer is really quite simple and I don’t mind sharing. In terms of acquiring fixes for existent Ranger problems, I’ve accomplished exactly the same as those who are perpetually positive.

And that is a sad commentary.

Pedra.4381:

Sebrent.3625:

Pedra: Feel free to let everyone know what being so negative has gotten you. I still see no benefits from it.

The answer is really quite simple and I don’t mind sharing. In terms of acquiring fixes for existent Ranger problems, I’ve accomplished exactly the same as those who are perpetually positive.

And that is a sad commentary.

Really? I think I’ve created several threads that have benefitted several players by getting the knowledge out there. I’m actually curious to see if they used any of the information from our one big list since Robert mentioned he’d direct the class devs to look at it.

Additionally, this thread is a good example of how one person simply makes a statement, with no evidence, while another simply provides the evidence which obvious contradicts the first:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/When-is-the-patch-and-any-patch-notes-yet/first#post1894527

There are also other threads from people being positive about the Ranger class that showcase currently strong builds and how they use them with great success.

On the other hand, all the negativity in this forum has only served to drive Robert Hrouda to be more quiet. Way to go! One of the big things that made other classes jealous of our forum and the actions of yourself and others like you has ruined it.

I’d say you couldn’t be farther off if you think you’ve accomplished the same as those being positive. Probably the same in-game though.

Heck, let’s look at that video of you and your guild fighting the guild formerly known as Sekz on Ehmry Bay in those GvG battles your guilds set up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IOr2DLI4Kiw

There is your guild getting smashed over and over again, for quite obvious reasons.

<sarcasm>
Obviously everyone here should heed the “sage” advice from one who is so good at laying on the ground dead.

It’s “definitely” the class, not the player
</sarcasm>

Rangers rock. Practice till you’re good. Then you’ll beat similarly skilled players. Then we’ll eventually have our key bugs fixed and be OP.

There is no black sheep. Just people’s preconception that having a guardian in their group is a good thing … until they realize that guardian is one of the really bad players that keeps rerolling the flavor-of-the-month or what everyone tells them “is good” or “is the best”.

Sebrent.3625:

Ranger is “hard”. Being a good Ranger is “really hard”. However, with that higher skill ceiling comes some really rewarding gameplay.

Furthermore, when people see a good Ranger, I’m pretty sure some of them mess their pants. That is well worth it ;-)

I don’t play a Ranger, but I lurk on your forums because the Necro forums are fairly dead most of the time and you guys have more videos.

The above quote is true, from my perspective. I’m an average player, perhaps below average in skill. I’ve absolutely destroyed bad Rangers. I’ve been handily beaten by decent Rangers. I’ve been totally destroyed by good Rangers. Playing a Ranger badly is very easy to do. I rolled a Ranger alt just to get a feel for how their skills worked, and after reading all the pet abilities, utilities, and weapon skills I still have no clue how to play it properly. I haven’t experienced that with any other profession. It’s normally pretty easy to read the skills/traits list and know how a given profession is supposed to work. Rangers aren’t quite that simple, which has got to make them very difficult to fix/balance. It’s probably the amount of pet options you have, but I don’t know.

If they buff you guys too much then bad players will do “okay,” but good players will be unstoppable. If they don’t change enough (or nothing) then it’ll remain a few die-hards that rock with a fairly complex class, while everyone else writes it off as bad.

Pedra.4381:

Sebrent.3625:

Can the ranger still contribute quite a bit even with a dead pet? Yep.

I concur. A Ranger with a dead pet contributes. It does so in a fashion similar to the way a crippled horse contributes to a team pulling a wagon.

That’s to say not equally.

I see no need to keep my pet alive unless it’s my wolf, but that’s for the fear. I just stick with conditions and let my pet do whatever usually.

Well-said, PinCushion.

While I always love seeing interest in Rangers, I hope you stick with that Necro. I’m hoping we see more and more necros in WvW and sPvP so the meta starts to shift away from the current “builds with lots of boons” meta we’re in.

PinCushion.7390:

I don’t play a Ranger, but I lurk on your forums because the Necro forums are fairly dead most of the time and you guys have more videos.

I see what you did there XD

On topic, yes according to the general consensus, and no according to the people that actually took the time to understand and develop the ranger’s potential.

People are just being negative about a class that is deceptively complex. Its too hard for people that want straight up pewpew.

Sebrent.3625:

Pedra.4381:

Sebrent.3625:

Pedra: Feel free to let everyone know what being so negative has gotten you. I still see no benefits from it.

The answer is really quite simple and I don’t mind sharing. In terms of acquiring fixes for existent Ranger problems, I’ve accomplished exactly the same as those who are perpetually positive.

And that is a sad commentary.

Really? I think I’ve created several threads that have benefitted several players by getting the knowledge out there. I’m actually curious to see if they used any of the information from our one big list since Robert mentioned he’d direct the class devs to look at it.

On the other hand, all the negativity in this forum has only served to drive Robert Hrouda to be more quiet. Way to go! One of the big things that made other classes jealous of our forum and the actions of yourself and others like you has ruined it.

Yeah of course, we’ve gotten to the point where we should NOT talk about the many problems of the class ( on the RANGER forum ) because negativity is bad for karma and makes robert houda (a DUNGEON dev) run away crying.

I….just….dont…

Seriously, i’ve played many mmo, i’ve read many weird posts, i’ve seen communities destroy games while devs watch, and devs destroy games while the community watches, but the gems i get out of this forum are seriously one of a kind and worth the 60$ alone..

@Aegis: I’m very happy to hear that you’ve found the forums on here that useful

To my knowledge, Robert is still around. He’s just not posting as much. I don’t blame him. The past couple times he has posted, our few most vocal negative nancy players jumped on him for things others said and things that aren’t even part of Robert’s job. Then a few bandwagon-ers did the same. Meh.

If every time I posted Ranger information, someone said, “that’s great, but Jon Peters said this and Obama did something so you suck at life and are a liar, Sebrent”, I’d be less apt to post on here as well … especially if I could be enjoying myself doing something else instead.

NOTE: I wouldn’t start doing that as I am not a stranger to reporting garbage posts. Keep the boards clean, please.

Sebrent.3625:

@Aegis: I’m very happy to hear that you’ve found the forums on here that useful

---

To my knowledge, Robert is still around. He’s just not posting as much. I don’t blame him. The past couple times he has posted, our few most vocal negative nancy players jumped on him for things others said and things that aren’t even part of Robert’s job. Then a few bandwagon-ers did the same. Meh.

If every time I posted Ranger information, someone said, “that’s great, but Jon Peters said this and Obama did something so you suck at life and are a liar, Sebrent”, I’d be less apt to post on here as well … especially if I could be enjoying myself doing something else instead.

NOTE: I wouldn’t start doing that as I am not a stranger to reporting garbage posts. Keep the boards clean, please.

Yes, and that is the result of months of imbalance, promised changes at every patch, and complete silence with the community. I do feel bad as well for houda, seems like a cool guy, but he’s the one guy carrying flasks of water in the sahara desert of these forums. I don’t blame people for jumping on him on every post, and comparing to what JP said, Anet put themselves into this situation with bad PRing and interaction, and he works for anet. Trust and distrust, as a company, are earned, not deserved.

There is no badwagon, just the 95% of the players seeing ranger faults , a few who don’t ( that EVERYONE know by name at this point ) and think ranger just needs a couple minor bugfixes and ONE guy who thinks we’re op and need heavy nerfs.
And then there is you, who flaunt your guides and community support and then ask everyone to shut up and stop discussing because devs are scared to post here, and then play moderator. Don’t wanna sound rude but that’s the situation we’re currently in…

Also no, i don’t think you can report your own posts.

“Pessimists are usually right and optimists are usually wrong but all the great changes have been accomplished by optimists.”

oh, and John Peters said I could have a pony.

jubskie.3152:

PinCushion.7390:

I don’t play a Ranger, but I lurk on your forums because the Necro forums are fairly dead most of the time and you guys have more videos.

I see what you did there XD

On topic, yes according to the general consensus, and no according to the people that actually took the time to understand and develop the ranger’s potential.

People are just being negative about a class that is deceptively complex. Its too hard for people that want straight up pewpew.

yea people said the same about hunters back in wow old days, that bad players rolled hunters because they were hardly on top of arena teams and pvp while other classes had an easy way to the top. Yet whining in forums and been negative bring lot of changes to the hunter like AoE dmg reduction to pets to name one. There is clearly something wrong with the class if all you see in WvW are elementalist, thief… ect. Not saying Rangers are unplayable but it does have issues, other classes do better than a ranger in any role mostly.

@Aegis: do please direct me to where I told everyone to “shut up cuz you’re scaring the devs”.

I also don’t see any guides anywhere by me as I think playstyle varies from person to person and I don’t have videos to support such a guide.

I do see collections of information about the current state of the ranger though. Are those somehow irksome in that they show where many of the ranger’s current strengths are? If people don’t like numbers that the game’s mechanics are based on, that is their problem. I deal in facts, not petty gripes.

I’d also love to know why you think I’m flaunting those. Unlike many people with guides, there is not a single link on my sig to any of those posts, nor do I have a site, or any other promotions for them. There’s data and people who want to find it can do so.

Again, as far as “telling people to stop discussing because devs are scared to post here”, that is quite inaccurate. There is a large difference between discussion and outright hateful posts that aren’t even aimed at the right person. As I said before, the way Robert has been treated is akin to you guys griping at me for things the President of France has done. It’s ridiculous, immature behavior and has done nothing but negative things. Or you could complain at me about what Obama or Bush have done. I am an American after all, so that makes perfect sense using your logic that since Robert Hrouda works for ArenaNet and so does Jon Peters that Robert should get flak for things Peter says or things the balance team does or doesn’t do.

If you’re going to make claims, back them up. Don’t tell me I’m flaunting stuff and telling people to shut up and not have discussions because they’re scaring devs unless you have some links to instances to back this up. And God help me if you clip/edit a quote to suit what you’re looking for. Before you even think about doing that garbage to me or anyone else on the boards, you better look at the Forum Code of Conduct.

There are those who come to the forums to share information and discuss.
There are those who come to the forums just to complain.
There are those who come to the forums to troll.

One is productive. The other two are not. Try to fit into the one that is productive. Otherwise, I’d appreciate a bit more lurking on your part.

NOTE:
“This class sucks” is not meaningful discussion.

“We’re never going to get fixed” is not meaningful discussion either.

“Longbow seems to fire 1 shot every 1.25s instead of every 0.75s as listed on its tooltip. Is anyone else experiencing this?” is meaningful discussion.

“Longbow seems to be weaker because it fires 66% slower than its tooltip says it should” is an opinion based on meaningful information.

“If you press F3 before pressing F2, your pet will instantly clear its queue of auto-attacks and then perform F2 as it is now at the front of the just-emptied queue” is meaningful information.

When posting something, think about if someone would actually benefit from reading it. If not, perhaps you should improve it or not post it.

That said, I’m not saying opinions aren’t useful, but if you’re going to give your opinion, it’s much better to explain why you have that opinion using meaningful points. I’ve provided examples if how to do this isn’t obvious.

I’m tired of the useless posts and negativity that seems to only get worse when people disagree and try to be positive about the class.

Sebrent.3625:

Really? I think I’ve created several threads that have benefitted several players by getting the knowledge out there. I’m actually curious to see if they used any of the information from our one big list since Robert mentioned he’d direct the class devs to look at it."

On the first part of your statement, I am in complete agreement with you, Sebrent. I think you have made positive contributions to the Ranger community (but that’s you, not ArenaNet). I say that with no detractors.

But, that was not what I was commenting on or replying to. I was saying that my “complaints” haven’t gained anymore from ArenaNet than your incessant (and in my opinion undeserved) praise of Robert Hrouda has. I truly wish that were not the case. I will be curious to see how much additional praise is given to Mr. Hrouda should any of that list be acted upon (especially in light of all the admonishments that the lack of fixes thus far are “just not his fault”).

I also think you wear blinders (for whatever reason). And you aren’t above shading the facts. Speaking of which…

You seem rather fond of that video of ours. We would not have posted it had we cared that people saw it. But, here is a challenge for you. When your guild does to us what Rekz did, post that video and we can talk about it.

Although the Ranger needs a ton of love, I think it’s a better, deeper profession than most people realize. It can still be incredibly viable when played right.

Razor.9872:

Although the Ranger needs a ton of love, I think it’s a better, deeper profession than most people realize. It can still be incredibly viable when played right.

Well-said, Razor. What’s I think makes it quite incredible is the fact that it is so deep despite having 4+ utilities that are useless in most scenarios and the class suffers from some aggravating bugs. Imagine the depths we may discover when those issues are resolved.

Pedra.4381:

Sebrent.3625:

Really? I think I’ve created several threads that have benefitted several players by getting the knowledge out there. I’m actually curious to see if they used any of the information from our one big list since Robert mentioned he’d direct the class devs to look at it."

On the first part of your statement, I am in complete agreement with you, Sebrent. I think you have made positive contributions to the Ranger community (but that’s you, not ArenaNet). I say that with no detractors.

But, that was not what I was commenting on or replying to. I was saying that my “complaints” haven’t gained anymore from ArenaNet than your incessant (and in my opinion undeserved) praise of Robert Hrouda has. I truly wish that were not the case. I will be curious to see how much additional praise is given to Mr. Hrouda should any of that list be acted upon (especially in light of all the admonishments that the lack of fixes thus far are “just not his fault”).

I also think you wear blinders (for whatever reason). And you aren’t above shading the facts. Speaking of which…

You seem rather fond of that video of ours. We would not have posted it had we cared that people saw it. But, here is a challenge for you. When your guild does to us what Rekz did, post that video and we can talk about it.

(1) Don’t start praising me after you tried to state that your negativity has accomplished the same things as the positivity displayed by myself and others on the forums. You’re simply trying to deflect that part of the conversation since it is clear to all that your negativity has done nothing good and had actually accomplished some bad.

(2) The only praise I give to Robert is the fact that he actually communicates with the community; something people have been wanting the devs to do. When he does what they want, he gets flak. That flak is the thing I’ve been vocal about. If you don’t like being called out for being unreasonable, don’t be unreasonable.

(3) You guys didn’t release that video, Rekz did. Notice how the point-of-view is from Rekz’s side … unless, of course, you jumped on his computer, took his recording, and uploaded it for him, lol.

(4) Careful what you wish for as you may just get it. Xeviel was telling us a few days ago that he was trying to arrange something like that with [WAR] and [GF]. I often run with [GF] in WvW.

I’m just going to say 1 thing here. Well, more actually.. Trappers are awesome in WvW!! Idk about warriors much. I haven’t played mine in WvW yet. Engineers and thieves are meeeh. My commander though, he prefers rangers over these last 2. So NO!! under no circumstances are rangers the blacksheep class. We don’t have many alternatives to trapping but at least this build is fun and devastating if you know how to use it and what to equip.

Sebrent.3625:

(1) Don’t start praising me after you tried to state that your negativity has accomplished the same things as the positivity displayed by myself and others on the forums. You’re simply trying to deflect that part of the conversation since it is clear to all that your negativity has done nothing good and had actually accomplished some bad.

(2) The only praise I give to Robert is the fact that he actually communicates with the community; something people have been wanting the devs to do. When he does what they want, he gets flak. That flak is the thing I’ve been vocal about. If you don’t like being called out for being unreasonable, don’t be unreasonable.

(3) You guys didn’t release that video, Rekz did. Notice how the point-of-view is from Rekz’s side … unless, of course, you jumped on his computer, took his recording, and uploaded it for him, lol.

(4) Careful what you wish for as you may just get it. Xeviel was telling us a few days ago that he was trying to arrange something like that with [WAR] and [GF]. I often run with [GF] in WvW.

#1: I’m not starting anything. This is what primarily separates us Sebrent. I’m factual. I said well over a month ago that you were a very positive contibutor to this forum (and I even thanked you), but I went on to say there were problems with your approach. I’m still saying that… It also seems you have a problem with context. You’ve accomplished NOTHING more for the Ranger (in terms of fixes from ArenaNet) than I have. Your contributions to educating Rangers notwithstanding.

#2: No, you go further than that. When a forum poster starts rewriting history and openingly giving credit to a Developer for fixing something that said Developer was clueless about that’s actually beyond praise. You also defend him at every turn. Why? I’m not sure, he’s a big boy.

#3: We live streamed our side of the fight and subsequently posted it on youtube immediately afterwards. I assumed that was the one you posted (since I didn’t actually click it). This weekend I will look at it since seeing it from their perspective will be educational.

#4: He won’t have to try hard. Tell him to contact Kaedirin in game. So GF lets you ride their coattails as a PUG? That’s interesting. I run with my guild, we call it [WAR].

#1: You are not factual. You often post things without backing them up with facts.

#2: One instance where I misread what Robert said as him informing them of that HoM pets vitality versus seeing that they had already discovered it does not equate to “starts rewriting history”.

I’m also not so much defending him as I am pointing out the ridiculousness of how he has been treated. You guys give the man flak for things that others (i.e. Jon Peters) have done and other teams (class/balance) do, which he has no control over. It’s not like he’s the boss over Jon Peters and the class/balance team(s). However, despite this, people treat him like he is. He is a normal player like the rest of us. The main difference, with respect to what he gets griped at for, is that he has direct physical access to those responsible.

You guys might as well start blaming Sol, Menorah, devra, etc.. They are Ranger’s too and have opinions about various things, just like Robert does. They just don’t get a chance to talk to balance/class people and Jon Peters in person.

#3: That’s great. I’d be interested to see/hear from the side that got stomped. Hopefully I’ll see people learning instead of the common gripe-fest that usually follows getting stomped repeatedly.

1. No, I’m one of the three rangers (Deus Ex Tree and griddles being the other two), and it’s usually Deus and I (though he’s not been on till quite late this week). I got recruited to run with them after Deus and I talked for a good bit. He apparently liked/likes me quite a bit from the comments I got in TeamSpeak when I first joined them.

My official guilds are:

• [ROTH] – My personal guild bank
• [PURG] – Men and Women I’ve been running with in MMOs for over a year and where I’m the one of the youngest in the guild age-wise by decades despite being 27.
  • I think our median age is around late 30s early 40s. … darn 50+s balancing out us few late 20s, lol
• [FTF] – Joined a month or so ago. I like these guys and have a blast with them as well. They’re solid whenever they schedule an event.
  • I have yet to join a squad simply because I’m pretty noncommittal with my game time as of late. The wife and kids need me for various things and my kids don’t sleep sigh … don’t really have time to spare to “run drills” on a set schedule.
  • Plus Basthian seems more interested in my Mesmer than my Ranger :-p

roadkill.3749:

I’m just going to say 1 thing here. Well, more actually.. Trappers are awesome in WvW!! Idk about warriors much. I haven’t played mine in WvW yet. Engineers and thieves are meeeh. My commander though, he prefers rangers over these last 2. So NO!! under no circumstances are rangers the blacksheep class. We don’t have many alternatives to trapping but at least this build is fun and devastating if you know how to use it and what to equip.

agreed my friend… traps is the only viable build for large group WvW (which is practically the essence of WvW)… and THAT itself is the problem… you either go traps or you re a burden…

i humbly concur on the second part of your statement tho… a well played thief or engineer can bring lots more to the table than a well played ranger…

of course if you start comparing a well played ranger against an inexperienced playstyle of any other class (like some people insist on doing in these forums) ranger will shine hands down…. but again so will any other decent played class…

regards