Guild Wars 2

Mcrocha.3891:

I somewhat disagree. The food wasn’t what made zerk builds worse, it was the condi changes that hurt more. Food for condi builds might be good yeah, but theres also food that steals health on critical for instance which can give some sustain to builds that otherwise wouldn’t have it.

Well yea.

But the whole problem is somewhere else.
In WvW all you need is mobility. You either defeat your opponent with a build that sacrificed dmg/defense/CC/utility in order to get movement, or you begin to lose and escape the poor try-harder. And you can come again with full HP a new set of cooldowns able to do it again trying until you manage to beat him.

In PvP? Your goal is to win a fight in order to occupy objectives. If you lost in a fight and was forced to back away – your enemy was probably better, countered your build, played something more efficient (which is thread about) or maybe you just suck.
If the player got his sorry a$* kicked so bad that he was forced to abandon his goal in the game – he’s going to lose it (unlike WvW where mobility = objectives).

Those who are able to escape (rotate in PvP) are all classes that need to be as efficient in fight which means they have to sacrifice as little for the mobility as possible staying as good for fights as ever.
If they aren’t able to beat classes and builds that are solely made for fighting – rotating isn’t going to save their sorry butt (unlike WvW) because objectives are elsewhere.

Food in WvW is just another crack in the difference. Because if we want to talk about WvW maximum potential we need 20 gold per hour to get +5% damage, +5% armor, +15% speed, +passive regeneration, +the most expansive food and sharpening stone, +black bear whistle, +stealth consumables, +cleanse water field consumable…
… And yea – if you didn’t get all this – you already are weaker than a person who did.

If I hear an argument that someone managed to beat a guy like that > everybody who has hit points can run out of them one day. That statement has no value.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Mcrocha.3891:

I somewhat disagree. The food wasn’t what made zerk builds worse, it was the condi changes that hurt more. Food for condi builds might be good yeah, but theres also food that steals health on critical for instance which can give some sustain to builds that otherwise wouldn’t have it.

Well yea.

But the whole problem is somewhere else.
In WvW all you need is mobility. You either defeat your opponent with a build that sacrificed dmg/defense/CC/utility in order to get movement, or you begin to lose and escape the poor try-harder. And you can come again with full HP a new set of cooldowns able to do it again trying until you manage to beat him.

In PvP? Your goal is to win a fight in order to occupy objectives. If you lost in a fight and was forced to back away – your enemy was probably better, countered your build, played something more efficient (which is thread about) or maybe you just suck.
If the player got his sorry a$* kicked so bad that he was forced to abandon his goal in the game – he’s going to lose it (unlike WvW where mobility = objectives).

Those who are able to escape (rotate in PvP) are all classes that need to be as efficient in fight which means they have to sacrifice as little for the mobility as possible staying as good for fights as ever.
If they aren’t able to beat classes and builds that are solely made for fighting – rotating isn’t going to save their sorry butt (unlike WvW) because objectives are elsewhere.

Food in WvW is just another crack in the difference. Because if we want to talk about WvW maximum potential we need 20 gold per hour to get +5% damage, +5% armor, +15% speed, +passive regeneration, +the most expansive food and sharpening stone, +black bear whistle, +stealth consumables, +cleanse water field consumable…
… And yea – if you didn’t get all this – you already are weaker than a person who did.

If I hear an argument that someone managed to beat a guy like that > everybody who has hit points can run out of them one day. That statement has no value.

I’d argue WvW roamers have to build to be more efficient in a fight than PvP roamers do. WvW roamers expect to fight outnumbered, hell the main reason most of them roam is because they are looking for small scale fights. PvP roamers aren’t looking for 1v1 fights, they are looking for empty points to decap and fights to +1.

Tragic Positive.9356:

You either defeat your opponent with a build that sacrificed dmg/defense/CC/utility in order to get movement, or you begin to lose and escape the poor try-harder. And you can come again with full HP a new set of cooldowns able to do it again trying until you manage to beat him.

Is that really how you play?

Ryan.9387:

Engie is the best 1v1 class if they aren’t nerfed in two months. (tPvP). I’ve seen what’s coming first-hand and it isn’t pleasant.

Why allude to something and then not explain it?

Tragic Positive.9356:

While in PvP you cannot bring food to become condi immune with minus 40 percent duration, you are screwed in WvW if you don’t. And do you expect people to have 20 different types of food just to negate the enemy’s everytime you encounter a new one?
Maybe you didn’t get the point, but a single piece of food tips the balance of the build by 40%. 40 freaking percent. Whichever way you try to defend it – that kind of amount is not acceptable when discussing dueling balance or potential (e.g. there’s no food to increase Direct damage by 40% – which already makes Zerk builds for dueling obsolete – that’s how balance-breaking the difference is)

I don’t want to defend the +/- 40% duration food. I do think, 40% is too much.
But this has nothing to do with class/build balance, because it is accessible to everyone.

If we want to compare two builds, it doesn’t make sense to assume, one uses food and every other possible buff and maybe full asc gear, and the other uses no buffs and is maybe even an uplvled with green gear. Of course this would be an unbalanced situation and yes, this can happen in WvW. Just like 50vs1 can happen. But this kind of imbalance has nothing to do with class/build and is therefore irrelevant for class/build balance.

And no, you are not necessarily screwed without -40% condi duration food, and zerk builds are not obsolete for dueling (zerk lb ranger can beat most condi builds).

Tragic Positive.9356:

Those who are able to escape (rotate in PvP) are all classes that need to be as efficient in fight which means they have to sacrifice as little for the mobility as possible staying as good for fights as ever.
If they aren’t able to beat classes and builds that are solely made for fighting – rotating isn’t going to save their sorry butt (unlike WvW) because objectives are elsewhere.

Sooo … thieves are useless for PvP right? Sry couldn’t resist :p

Tragic Positive.9356:

Food in WvW is just another crack in the difference. Because if we want to talk about WvW maximum potential we need 20 gold per hour to get +5% damage, +5% armor, +15% speed, +passive regeneration, +the most expansive food and sharpening stone, +black bear whistle, +stealth consumables, +cleanse water field consumable…

I have never encountered one, who used all this stuff. Food, sharpening stone, guard stacks and weapon sigil stacks are common, everything else is hardly ever used. And completely independent from class/build.

Btw the biggest imbalance factor in WvW is the number of players involved in a fight/match.

EnderzShadow.2506:

Tragic Positive.9356:

You either defeat your opponent with a build that sacrificed dmg/defense/CC/utility in order to get movement, or you begin to lose and escape the poor try-harder. And you can come again with full HP a new set of cooldowns able to do it again trying until you manage to beat him.

Is that really how you play?

I play a Ranger that isn’t even close to having such mechanics.
Not a Mesmer/Ele/Thief/Guardian/Warrior…

That’s how plenty of experienced players play. If I know I can escape 20 people with mobility, why would I bother with mechanics?