Guild Wars 2

Before I get into my post, I want to clarify, I’m not calling anything OP, I ain’t complaining about losing to a Ranger, none of that stuff. I am, however complaining about the longbow, if you mist say L2P, by all means do, but please leave an actual response afterwards. I do really appreciate your opinions on the matter

So into it, Rangers got high range, which is warranted, it’s their thing. But, does it feel “fair” to have such high range, coupled with stealth and a knock back? You all must understand the frustration that comes with, being pelted by arrows from so far away, only to be denied the chance to retaliate. Suppose I am playing a melee class, we shall say warrior. I am happily defending a point, and I am hit by a rapid fire. I dodge and run to ranger. I am crippled by a hail of arrows. I continue to run forward, I am knocked backwards. I run more and the ranger stealths and appears farther away. I finally reach the ranger and I can do no damage to him(I do not remember the trait that transfers damage). I go down because the ranger was able to do enough damage before I could do anything.

Now this example would be the perfect argument for a “noob” as in ran in a straightline and did everything wrong. But it serves only to showcase the small handful of tricks rangers have to eliminate threats without much risk. I understand, blinks and reflects anddodges and stuns are must best friend, so I state once more this is just a showcase example.

Now the question is,Do you, the rangers, believe it is fair, for Rangers to have the safety of range, and escapes, while also doing heavy damage?

I apologize for the fact I’m very very bad at stating an argument, or general grammar. So I apologize.

QUICK NOTE! The scenario with the warrior running was to showcase the tools at the rangers disposal. The class running forward is irrelevant. I could have said theif or Necro and have the same effect. I said warrior because they are primarily melee and common.
(I know how to deal with rangers, across all my classes, hence why that is not part of questions

The scenario you give is a bit weird. The reason I say that is because you did what you shouldn’t have done. I’m really surprised that you tried to walk towards him while he was range-ing you. All you had to do was LOS him. The Ranger would of had to do one of two things….either move on or come towards you.

It’s obvious the Ranger was pure glass. Therefore 2-3 hits from a warrior could mean the Rangers downfall. Wait for his immune to wear off then burst him down.

Is turning invisible fair (thieves)? Is blocking constantly and getting no damage fair (guardians)? Is raining death on huge area from the sky fair (elementalist)?

Not really, but I’d say each of the classes has a role they do best. For Ranger it’s ranged single-target combat. Get close and the Ranger’s damage drops to 75% of long range damage. Projectile reflection is another great defense.

“Now the question is,Do you, the rangers, believe it is fair, for Rangers to have the safety of range, and escapes, while also doing heavy damage?”

Yes I do believe it’s entirely fair because of the simple fact that there is such a high number of counters to both the heavy ranged damage aswell as the range of the longbow, if dodges, reflects, blocks, immunities and leaps etc didn’t exist the longbow would be OP but they do so anyone not using any of these things to counter a longbow ranger only has himself or his build to blame for not being able to fight back.

warriors have endure pain and a ton of on-demand stability.

why couldn’t you close the gap and kill the ranger?

lol.

pop stab and gs 3 + 5.

even hambow can close the gap by using hammer f1 and cancelling it.

there’s bull rush.

rampage.

reflects.

If you’re really having trouble on warrior…

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNAR5cjMdUGaZHehwJaghgC9rXCrgxA4nVGGxOA-TlCCwA0V/RuuBGXAAAHBAHPAAxK/QcQAKYCqiSwc7PEAABgduzduzdmUAMpMC-w

This is a melee build like the one you say you run as well. It’s not made just for killing rangers either. You can use this against every class and build and be successful with it.

Lets not forget engies also have 1200 hundred range on certain weapon sets and 1500 traited. I might be wrong but arent engies grenades able to be traited to 1500?? thats way more over the top than a ranger

shadowpass.4236:

If you’re really having trouble on warrior…

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNAR5cjMdUGaZHehwJaghgC9rXCrgxA4nVGGxOA-TlCCwA0V/RuuBGXAAAHBAHPAAxK/QcQAKYCqiSwc7PEAABgduzduzdmUAMpMC-w

This is a melee build like the one you say you run as well. It’s not made just for killing rangers either. You can use this against every class and build and be successful with it.

LOL i eat guards for breakfast on my ranger. U can try to get in melee range of me…once u do prepare to eat at least 7 condis…alll staggered.

SYPHA.9283:

shadowpass.4236:

If you’re really having trouble on warrior…

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNAR5cjMdUGaZHehwJaghgC9rXCrgxA4nVGGxOA-TlCCwA0V/RuuBGXAAAHBAHPAAxK/QcQAKYCqiSwc7PEAABgduzduzdmUAMpMC-w

This is a melee build like the one you say you run as well. It’s not made just for killing rangers either. You can use this against every class and build and be successful with it.

LOL i eat guards for breakfast on my ranger. U can try to get in melee range of me…once u do prepare to eat at least 7 condis…alll staggered.

why’d you quote me? and condi regen ranger is like d/d ele lol

OP was talking about zerker.

and medi guards hard counter power/zerk longbow rangers

Jake.1430:

Suppose I am playing a melee class, we shall say warrior. I am happily defending a point, and I am hit by a rapid fire. I dodge and run to ranger. I am crippled by a hail of arrows. I continue to run forward, I am knocked backwards. I run more and the ranger stealths and appears farther away. I finally reach the ranger and I can do no damage to him(I do not remember the trait that transfers damage). I go down because the ranger was able to do enough damage before I could do anything.

The problem with your scenario is an implicit assumption you’re making – that pure melee should always be viable in every encounter. Every build needs its nemesis, its Achilles’ heel. And for a pure melee build, the obvious counter is a strong range build. So I’d say the scenario you’re presenting is working as intended.

Now this example would be the perfect argument for a “noob” as in ran in a straightline and did everything wrong. But it serves only to showcase the small handful of tricks rangers have to eliminate threats without much risk.

The ranger didn’t eliminate the risk. You did when you decided on an all-melee build. A good game will force the player to choose trade-offs. During gameplay, you should favor encounters which play to your strengths, while avoiding encounters which play to your weaknesses.

So I’d say the problem is your expectation to be able to run a pure-melee build and have every encounter be neutral or favorable to you. Ranged DPS used to be so poor that pure-melee was never at a disadvantage. Anet is fixing that now. Just as armor counters physical damage, and condition damage counters armor (and condition cleanse counters condition damage); range now counters pure-melee (and reflect/retaliation, gap closers, and cripples counter range).

You have decided to run with two melee weapons. While that gives you tremendous strength in melee encounters, it leaves you weak against ranged encounters. Which is as it should be. If you also want to be stronger against ranged encounters, you’re going to have to trade off some other the strengths in your all-melee build. Which too is as it should be.

“But the warrior ranged weapons suck!” Tell that to the balance team. I think condition damage sucks, but I don’t go around asking for it to be nerfed so I can ignore it. I ask for improvements to skills/traits for removing/dealing with conditions.

Now the question is,Do you, the rangers, believe it is fair, for Rangers to have the safety of range, and escapes, while also doing heavy damage?

Aside from one skill on longbow, I don’t think ranger DPS is all that different from other ranged classes. Unlike most ranged weapons, ranger longbow (and mesmer greatsword) decreases in autoattack damage the closer you get to the ranger/mesmer. A lot of people complained this was unfair and asked that it be removed, but it seems like Anet decided to keep it and fix the weak DPS by boosting the damage overall instead. Like it or hate it, that’s the design decision Anet made.

Rangers have fewer hp and less armor than warriors, and the evades/escapes make up for that. The damage transfer shout is a one-trick pony – it has a 60 sec cooldown. And it only transfers physical damage. It doesn’t work against conditions or crowd control effects. I could tell you to take Endure Pain and the Defy Pain trait to counter it (they do the exact same thing). But I’m guessing that’ll mess up your highly specialized build. That’s the drawback of using a specialized build vs a flexible one with a free utility skill slot.

Again, it’s all about trade-offs. For too long, this game has suffered from a single optimized build for each class (the meta) being considered the “best”. A properly designed game with a rock-paper-scissors approach has no meta build. The scissors build defeats the paper build. The paper build defeats the rock build. And the rock build defeats the scissors build. I’m glad to see Anet taking steps to squash the meta.

there is several ways to counter the new rangers. Personally i prefer to just pull em off wherever they are. Either, have a mesmer bring a focus (if team Q) and feedback. Or take a warrior with shield and mace. That will shut down the ranger quite easily, even more so if you put on reflect on block. Or better yet, gain might when blocking (10 stacks, swap to axe/hammer with intelligence sigil and nuke ranger)

Sure it is fair. None of the melee weapon of a ranger can kill anyone with build as berzerk. Axe sucks and broken, sword rooting and only good for running away, Greatsword is one pathetic weapon+ stupid block that roots you too. Hences the only viable direct damage they got is longbow with its range.

Unless if he is a condi ranger., then you will get the so called ‘fair’ melee fight that you wanted, but was it fair for ranger? But then again, condi ranger do not pew pew on such range.

Maybe you should spend some time playing a ranger.

I have played some zerker longbow ranger in wvw and I gotta say I have never felt safety on it. If you try to roam on a zerker longbow ranger in wvw you will find Hunter’s shot and Point Blanc Shot to be little to no hinderance against some melee players. Other times you get some milage out of them but its a mix of situational awareness, using your utilities at the right time (longbow skills included) and a decent build that will keep you alive. #3,4 on LB won’t. Just my oppinion of course.

Sometimes it’s a part of requirement. Facing Necro or Engineer is all about kiting and outranging.

Is it fair?
No, Its not; that’s probably why it took Anet so long to give LB rangers some burst.
However, a lot of abilities in this game are not balanced for 1v1’s; so while the LB ranger will burst another zerker/hybrid rly quickly from 1500 units, it will have a hard time stomping/rezzing/taking a point.
./shrug, dosen’t make it balanced IMO or particularly fair, even if it allows rangers the same sort of burst, finally, that other prof’s have

Fair? Yes.

Every class has something they are just outright the best at and range is our thing. It’s no more or less fair than theives borderline abusive ability to stealth access, or Warriors having the best heavy armour and highest natural health as well as having the highest (at least in theory) damage. It might be slightly over the top, but like I said, every class is slightly over the top in their own way and that’s not nessesarily a bad thing.. it’s what makes for varied classes.

The whole warrior running at the ranger was an example.
You can substitute any class, the point was to showcase the tools at the rangers disposable. I could have said necromancer or theif to achieve the same effect. I only said warrior because it’s more melee based.

Jake.1430:

Before I get into my post, I want to clarify, I’m not calling anything OP, I ain’t complaining about losing to a Ranger, none of that stuff. I am, however complaining about the longbow, if you mist say L2P, by all means do, but please leave an actual response afterwards. I do really appreciate your opinions on the matter

So into it, Rangers got high range, which is warranted, it’s their thing. But, does it feel “fair” to have such high range, coupled with stealth and a knock back? You all must understand the frustration that comes with, being pelted by arrows from so far away, only to be denied the chance to retaliate. Suppose I am playing a melee class, we shall say warrior. I am happily defending a point, and I am hit by a rapid fire. I dodge and run to ranger. I am crippled by a hail of arrows. I continue to run forward, I am knocked backwards. I run more and the ranger stealths and appears farther away. I finally reach the ranger and I can do no damage to him(I do not remember the trait that transfers damage). I go down because the ranger was able to do enough damage before I could do anything.

Now this example would be the perfect argument for a “noob” as in ran in a straightline and did everything wrong. But it serves only to showcase the small handful of tricks rangers have to eliminate threats without much risk. I understand, blinks and reflects anddodges and stuns are must best friend, so I state once more this is just a showcase example.

Now the question is,Do you, the rangers, believe it is fair, for Rangers to have the safety of range, and escapes, while also doing heavy damage?

I apologize for the fact I’m very very bad at stating an argument, or general grammar. So I apologize.

Sup Jake. Don’t apologize for grammar because, well, this is the interwebz. What I’d like to know is why did you even post this? Is this because you now look and feel like a porcupine due to the number of arrows protruding from your body because you blindly charged a ranger? Or is this because you are drowning in the puddle of alligator tears falling like tears from heaven?

There is no fair in life let alone the fantasy world we play in. It is fair. Play smart and maybe you will actually taste the water you try and put in your body rather than looking like a fountain spilling water in time square. I mean sure, the pigeons need a place to take a bath and all but somehow you know the drill. HYDRATE, HYDRATE, HYDRATE!

Anyway – my point to all this babbling bull larky is that it is fair regardless if you are trying to dance around not calling it OP, you are. That was the hidden intent behind your post. Every class has something and a hard counter that is difficult to play against. Builds and traits are set up differently on rangers so it comes down to comfort level or risk vs. reward.

Moral of the story is don’t blindly charge. Stop, think, and play smart. You do those three things and you will win just about every fight/encounter in the game. Right? Even in PvE you don’t stand in the red circle, yeah? Well, this would be no different.

The range game takes some thinking, you cant use your usual formula. Point blank shot has a tell coming so you can use that to dodge. Dodge or reflect the rapid fire.

Its mostly just the high prevalence of longbow rangers that are causing the qq, because for the most part they could do all this before. Dont be caught out with a zerk build!

Fair? yes I suppose….

Is hit and stealth (repeat till forever) fair?
Is running faster than Usain Bolt fair?
Is having double or tripple the amount of health from all other classes fair?
Is playing PU fair?
Is…

As you said every class has it’s strengths and weaknesses

Also rangers had all that from the beginning. The qq comes from bads who lose to other RF spaming bads.

/thread…

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Is having double or tripple the amount of health from all other classes fair?

Except guardians

Oh – let me add “is it fair to your list”

Is it fair that a weaponless condi thief can kill people without weapons…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFMzBXrxq_I

I don’t see why it’s not fair. A power Ranger doesn’t provide much utility or have much defense outside of their range and a knockback. The changes also don’t appear to have accomplished much because power Rangers aren’t in top PvP queues and are still ignored in the competetive WvW scene.

If ANet wants to give the class the tools it needs to make it into the WvW or PvP meta, we could then discuss if having 2k range and 20% more damage than volley is too much. But it took ANet 2 years just to get this far and its impact is questionable at best. I can’t imagine how much longer real progress will take.

every class is slightly over the top in their own way and that’s not nessesarily a bad thing.. it’s what makes for varied classes.[/quote]

I would argue that this makes for a rock /paper/ scissors/ build- counter build situation; which may, in fact , limit build diversity.
A good example is the last tournament (forget the name). 1 team built around a power necro and Lich Form which was wreaking havokittenil the opposite teams mesmer started using Moa specifically for the transform. Its a hard counter that won the game for the mesmers team and should limit power necro’s position in any meta

Welcome to WoW past, present, and future. Any form of structured PvP (Arena’s) ended up being standard configurations. Season one everyone had a Paladin. Nerf, change, then it was rogue. Then it soon because rogue, mage, priest, then later warlock, druid, etc.

GW2 is not starting to see a similar pattern whereas structured play will require set classes rather than skill to succeed. Soon certain classes will be left out and frustrated.

As others have pointed out, each class has a niche and this just happens to be the rangers. You have to have variance in playstyle or the game is going to stagnate into a “which class melees the best?” situations (which it already has in some game modes.) There’s a reason Dhalsim and Guile are part of Street Fighter’s roster… Those characters give up a lot to perform well at range, much like rangers do.

This whole Rapid Fire-is-OP episode reminded me of when people found out that Cable could link AHVB’s in MvC2 and people were all “Oh noes, rushdown is dead” But in the end he still ended up getting bodied by Magneto. ;~;