Guild Wars 2

So I always hear people saying that 40% of their damage is tied to their pet and since the pet dies so much they are kitten 40% of their damage in fights most of the time.

I just don’t believe this. The times I’ve played s/tpvp with my ranger I’ve done greats amount of damage with all weapons. Any time there is any sort of balance update, people always seem to use whole 40% of our damage is tied to our pet so we are kitten and anet is doing nothing to fix this. Everytime I ask why they give me really poor reasons. Saying things like do the math, use common sense, look at the numbers. I compared the physical damage of our auto attacks and they dont seem to be that huge of a difference. That is not considering the utility and attack speed of our attacks.

So can anyone explain to me where this 40% thing start, and if it is true? If it is true, can you show some proof that it is true? Not saying someone else provided proof or you heard it on the internet.

You can compare weapon ratios to other professions and see what’s going on. Coupled with the fact that some of our weapons lack great flow between the skills, it’s not a great combination of factors.

Rangers direct damage is very poor. The only way to deal decent direct damage is to gear out berzerkers. Otherwise, if you take something like full soldiers gear, ur auto attacks are around 600 dmg a hit (sword, greatsword).

This is also why these 3 gear sets are popular among rangers:
1. Berzerker (Our only way of dealing decent direct damage)
2. Rabid (our conditions arent bad)
3. Apothecary (again, our condition arent bad)

TLDR: Ranger’s direct damage is not worth investing in unless you go zerkers.

It’s not true in the literal sense. The pets don’t scale with your gear they do a fixed amount of damage, for example if you are in tank gear and you are using a jaguar he probably will do more than that, but if you are in zerker gear and you are using a bear he won’t never come close to 40%. However, it’s true in the sense that part of our damage potential is in the pet and in the most cases he can’t deliver that. The real question is: what pet is anet using as reference to balance the class?

Not true.

People already proved, that our dps with sword WITHOUT pet is comparable to other classes. Actually, it’s even good.

for both skills i used no traits, no armor, no might and *no*sigils. i just used exotic berserker for both.
the damage written is the “skill-specific coefficient” on the skill tooltip.

sword
ranger: 222 – 222 – 258 | 258 – 369 | 258
warrior: 222 – 222 -222 | 276 | 553

longbow
ranger: 379 | 1580 (10x) | 168 | 337 | 2016 (12x)
warrior: 278 | 504 (3x) | 991 | 84 | 168

these numbers give you a value to begin your calculation and testing in the game. formula for the damage here
source gw2skills.net
I hope I understood your question correct.
Btw I don’t know if our pet does 40% of our damage but according to it’s “fix” number I think it doesn’t.

Ranger has crit dmg in prec tree, so going GC he has 30% more crit dmg than warr.

Also, tooltips lie :p

Anet has said in the past that pets account for roughly 40% of our damage this was before the pet damage nerf. While damage may look the same on our bar in use it a different matter. We can produce do good game like some of the other classes but our big damage has a long cd.

Terkov.4138:

Ranger has crit dmg in prec tree, so going GC he has 30% more crit dmg than warr.

Also, tooltips lie :p

Except warriors have traits that increase crit dmg.

Standard warrior dungeon build is pretty much 30/0/0/10/30 and with proper traits it will have about 130-140 critical dmg with the axe.

It may be 40% of your damage, but it’s only 40% for 5% of the time, the other 95% it’s hobbling about twisted and dead.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Anet has said in the past that pets account for roughly 40% of our damage this was before the pet damage nerf.

Add to it some of our weapon (LB, GS, OH axe) got dmg boost.

Taku.6352:

Except warriors have traits that increase crit dmg.

Standard warrior dungeon build is pretty much 30/0/0/10/30 and with proper traits it will have about 130-140 critical dmg with the axe.

Thats a good point actually, you have to look at traits because warriors have a lot more ways to increase their damage while rangers version increases pets damage (often).

Leuca.5732:

You can compare weapon ratios to other professions and see what’s going on. Coupled with the fact that some of our weapons lack great flow between the skills, it’s not a great combination of factors.

Obviously has never played with sw/torch axe/dag. That set has tons of fluidity.

Troopa.6179:

for both skills i used no traits, no armor, no might and *no*sigils. i just used exotic berserker for both.
the damage written is the “skill-specific coefficient” on the skill tooltip.

sword
ranger: 222 – 222 – 258 | 258 – 369 | 258
warrior: 222 – 222 -222 | 276 | 553

longbow
ranger: 379 | 1580 (10x) | 168 | 337 | 2016 (12x)
warrior: 278 | 504 (3x) | 991 | 84 | 168

these numbers give you a value to begin your calculation and testing in the game. formula for the damage here
source gw2skills.net
I hope I understood your question correct.
Btw I don’t know if our pet does 40% of our damage but according to it’s “fix” number I think it doesn’t.

No traits? You’re missing steady focus (10% dmg while endurance is full), spotter (5% dmg roughly), vigorous spirits (7% dmg flat), as well hunter’s tactics (10% dmg while flanking) or our free scholar rune Peak Strength (+10% dmg while health is above 90%); you’re missing potention companion’s might + fortifying bond + sigil of strength (25 stack might on pet), or Furious grip (fury on swap).

That’s how ranger brings the DPS.

Few professions are so weak without traits. Consider that in your DPS tests.

Chopps.5047:

Troopa.6179:

for both skills i used no traits, no armor, no might and *no*sigils. i just used exotic berserker for both.
the damage written is the “skill-specific coefficient” on the skill tooltip.

sword
ranger: 222 – 222 – 258 | 258 – 369 | 258
warrior: 222 – 222 -222 | 276 | 553

longbow
ranger: 379 | 1580 (10x) | 168 | 337 | 2016 (12x)
warrior: 278 | 504 (3x) | 991 | 84 | 168

these numbers give you a value to begin your calculation and testing in the game. formula for the damage here
source gw2skills.net
I hope I understood your question correct.
Btw I don’t know if our pet does 40% of our damage but according to it’s “fix” number I think it doesn’t.

No traits? You’re missing steady focus (10% dmg while endurance is full), spotter (5% dmg roughly), vigorous spirits (7% dmg flat), as well hunter’s tactics (10% dmg while flanking) or our free scholar rune Peak Strength (+10% dmg while health is above 90%); you’re missing potention companion’s might + fortifying bond + sigil of strength (25 stack might on pet), or Furious grip (fury on swap).

That’s how ranger brings the DPS.

Few professions are so weak without traits. Consider that in your DPS tests.

Thief gets 20% passive damage. 20% more if the target is below 50%.
Thief Sword is a good comparison to Ranger Sword because they aren’t bleed weapons.
Spotter is group utility so may as well factor for both.
Is Vigorous Spirits even in a Ranger dps build? But again… group utility.
I’m not sure on the aftercast on Ranger sword skills. Wiki lists the auto chain for thief at 2.52 seconds. No idea on Ranger one. But the coefficients are much lower and so is damage.

The Ranger DPS calculator only lists Shortbow and Longbow, so can’t just plug in the shortsword and tell you the DPS.

I can tell you that in full berserker gear in a 30/20/20 build with signets and no food/buffs/conditions, the DPS for the weapons is as follows:

Crossfire Damage
351.69 Base
882.75 Critical
627.84 Effective
1,162.67 DPS

Long Range Shot
600.00 Base
1,506.00 Critical
1,071.12 Effective
1,428.16 DPS

You don’t need to mess around with damage coefficients and trait 10% increases.

Just go to the mists. Turn pet on passive. Select a golem. Ready your stopwatch, and kill a golem with just your ranger. Note the time. Repeat but with only your pet attacking. Compare the two times. DPS is proportional to 1/time.

When I did this earlier in the year with rampager’s gear (pow/pre/cond/vit), mesmer runes (pow/pre), 30 power, 30 pre, no major traits selected, the jaguar accounted for 35%-41% of my ranger’s total damage. (i.e. pet_DPS / (ranger_DPS + pet_DPS) = 35% to 41%)

On the one hand cats do more DPS than other pets, this was before cat damage was nerfed, and isn’t a true power (beserker’s) setup, and I didn’t have major traits. So you could argue that the pet’s percentage of total damage is lower than in my tests.

On the other hand, this was a non-BM build. So it’s testing minimum pet damage against a fairly strong ranger damage build. And you could argue the pet’s portion of the damage is higher than in my tests.

Anyway, point is it’s fairly easy to test. Just go to the Mists and try it.

Atherakhia.4086:

I’m not sure on the aftercast on Ranger sword skills. Wiki lists the auto chain for thief at 2.52 seconds. No idea on Ranger one. But the coefficients are much lower and so is damage.

Ranger sword autoattack chain is 1.8 sec.

Vigorous spirits and fortyfying bond has been meta for months, ranger sword very high dps

Who cares about thief? Who mentioned them? Measure them the same way: with traits

Ranger dps build : 20/25/0/25/0 or close to it, spotter, companions might, frost spirit, sigil of strength, vigorous spirits, frost spirit

go ahead and assume you get spotter and frost spirit, that means you have a ranger in party

Also: cats do most dps is highly situational. I’d say birds are higher burst vs stationary target. Cats highest sustained, maybe a little less than birds, but vs moving target with no cripple? Both pets perform poorly and spiders instead become higher dps

Chopps.5047:

Vigorous spirits and fortyfying bond has been meta for months, ranger sword very high dps

Who cares about thief? Who mentioned them? Measure them the same way: with traits

Ranger dps build : 20/25/0/25/0 or close to it, spotter, companions might, frost spirit, sigil of strength, vigorous spirits, frost spirit

go ahead and assume you get spotter and frost spirit, that means you have a ranger in party

I was merely pointing out why the Warrior scenario may not be ideal if someone were to seriously plot out both weapons. Better to choose classes that are more similar in design, using weapons that are more similar in function.

This is also why you don’t necessarily want to include all the traits as you’ll never find 2 classes that are identical. Remove as many variables as you can. But Thief is probably the closest until you fall below the 50% mark.

I believe someone on the Thief forum has designed a Thief DPS calculator. May be easier to just find that and compare it.

Deified.7520:

So I always hear people saying that 40% of their damage is tied to their pet and since the pet dies so much they are kitten 40% of their damage in fights most of the time.

I just don’t believe this. The times I’ve played s/tpvp with my ranger I’ve done greats amount of damage with all weapons. Any time there is any sort of balance update, people always seem to use whole 40% of our damage is tied to our pet so we are kitten and anet is doing nothing to fix this. Everytime I ask why they give me really poor reasons. Saying things like do the math, use common sense, look at the numbers. I compared the physical damage of our auto attacks and they dont seem to be that huge of a difference. That is not considering the utility and attack speed of our attacks.

So can anyone explain to me where this 40% thing start, and if it is true? If it is true, can you show some proof that it is true? Not saying someone else provided proof or you heard it on the internet.

For a small data sample, go to the mists, take a regular weapon (I wish steady weapons could be used here, but you can’t get a steady pet for a damage comparison, so you need a regular weapon), go to a golem, and attack it for x amount of time, keeping track of your damage output, then calculate your dps.

Then, have your pet attack the golem for the same amount of time, and get its dps.

The total of your dps + pet dps is the total damage output potential, and the ratio of player dps/total and pet dps/total will get you your percentage.

Furajir.3815:

Obviously has never played with sw/torch axe/dag. That set has tons of fluidity.

Obviously missed the fact that I said some.

It’s not 40%. Just look at the Rangers base weapon damage, and compare it to the weapon base damage of other professions, and you can see that it’s not 40%. Take greatsword damage for instance; the Ranger deals 203-203-240 with auto-attack, while the Warrior deals 259-259-333 damage on auto-attack (plus 2% vulnerability). Clearly, that’s not 40%.

However it’s important to remember that combat in Guild Wars 2 is not static, but constantly moving. If you don’t hit, you don’t deal damage. You also have to consider that the pet doesn’t deal 30% of the damage you deal, but that it has its own damage output, and is capable of dealing some good burst damage as well. And that, when the pet is hitting your target, while you are out of your targets damage range, you have an advantage.

Kasama.8941:

It’s not 40%. Just look at the Rangers base weapon damage, and compare it to the weapon base damage of other professions, and you can see that it’s not 40%. Take greatsword damage for instance; the Ranger deals 203-203-240 with auto-attack, while the Warrior deals 259-259-333 damage on auto-attack (plus 2% vulnerability). Clearly, that’s not 40%.

However it’s important to remember that combat in Guild Wars 2 is not static, but constantly moving. If you don’t hit, you don’t deal damage. You also have to consider that the pet doesn’t deal 30% of the damage you deal, but that it has its own damage output, and is capable of dealing some good burst damage as well. And that, when the pet is hitting your target, while you are out of your targets damage range, you have an advantage.

It’s not just the raw damage, but the coefficients as well. So while the raw damage may only be 27.5% different on the first 2 swings, there’s also a 27% difference in their coefficients. The third attack is 38% higher in raw damage and the coefficient.

Now as for quantifying the pet, you must also find some way to account for the pets downtime for being dead. the downtime for running to a target. The fact that the pet can’t hit a moving target but maybe 1 in 3 shots. The fact that F2 abilities have a near 50% failure rate because they either miss outright or misfire.

Atherakhia.4086:

Now as for quantifying the pet, you must also find some way to account for the pets downtime for being dead. the downtime for running to a target. The fact that the pet can’t hit a moving target but maybe 1 in 3 shots. The fact that F2 abilities have a near 50% failure rate because they either miss outright or misfire.

Bingo. This is the biggest issue with so much of our damage relying upon the pet and why consistent damage by my bow wielding warrior is far superior to my bow wielding ranger.

Kasama.8941:

It’s not 40%. Just look at the Rangers base weapon damage, and compare it to the weapon base damage of other professions, and you can see that it’s not 40%. Take greatsword damage for instance; the Ranger deals 203-203-240 with auto-attack, while the Warrior deals 259-259-333 damage on auto-attack (plus 2% vulnerability). Clearly, that’s not 40%.

For DPS purposes, the damage and damage coefficients are useless if you don’t know the weapon’s attack speed. e.g. Shortbow’s coefficients are about half of longbow’s, but they do about the same DPS because shortbow fires twice as quickly.

Regardless of how much damage the pets do out of our total damage. It does need to be turned down. If anet refuses to tweak the AI then atleast make us be able to do more damage. for arguments sake, if it really is 40% then make it 20 or 30%. Rangers don’t really have many issues except for the pet AI, and because they account for a portion of our damage that usually gimps us hard.

Stop using cats and birds. It’s been shown time and again that you need muddy terrain or some kind of cripple for those pets (sword) to land. Why aren’t you using spiders or dogs? They land hits reliably.

Chopps.5047:

Stop using cats and birds. It’s been shown time and again that you need muddy terrain or some kind of cripple for those pets (sword) to land. Why aren’t you using spiders or dogs? They land hits reliably.

Oh, so every Ranger needs to use those pets, and not ones they want to? Oh how dumb of them. Silly to think people don’t want to be forced to use a pet they don’t want to in order to have them work correctly. Hope the sarcasm came out in that.

Your suggestion is pretty lame.

lol @ stubbornness

You need to learn to play. I’m trying to help you. But go ahead and keep using cats and birds on moving targets without any crowd control or cripple. You must like not hitting things. Go ahead and pick useless pets for your build, I really don’t care if you lose in battles.

You ever heard of the Yin and the Yang? That’s the ranger and the pet. They should compliment each other. If you’re going to build Yin and the Yin, I can’t really feel sorry for you.

Chopps.5047:

lol @ stubbornness

You need to learn to play. I’m trying to help you. But go ahead and keep using cats and birds on moving targets without any crowd control or cripple. You must like not hitting things. Go ahead and pick useless pets for your build, I really don’t care if you lose in battles.

You ever heard of the Yin and the Yang? That’s the ranger and the pet. They should compliment each other. If you’re going to build Yin and the Yin, I can’t really feel sorry for you.

lol @ not knowing who you are replying to.

First off, how do you know I need to learn to play? Do you know me? Second, I don’t need your “help” as I did not ask for it.

Maybe you are trying to “school” someone else in this thread. Take it to them, not me.

Secondly, I don’t use birds or cats. If someone would like to use them, good for them. The point I am making is….a person should not have to use a certain pet in order to be effective. ALL pets should be. Anet dropped the ball on moving targets and pets ability to hit them.

Fanboisim statements like yours confirms there are plenty of dolts that just take mediocre mechanics and deal with them, and use the tired old statement of “l2p” to compensate.

The only thing your post is missing is calling someone “son”. But keep it up, I am sure you can get there.

40% is a rough estimate (probably closer to 25% on a non-BM build before the nerf) and is usually seen while using high damage pets against static foes that don’t move much. In a fight against competent humans or actually difficult AI foes, the number is much, much lower. The problem is Anet balances the class around the idea that the pet is always working at peak efficiency, which, as we all know, is a rare thing indeed.

The pet has a varying degree of influence on our dps but we absolutely need it to even come close to other classes’ dps.

Vaxx.3178:

Chopps.5047:

lol @ stubbornness

You need to learn to play. I’m trying to help you. But go ahead and keep using cats and birds on moving targets without any crowd control or cripple. You must like not hitting things. Go ahead and pick useless pets for your build, I really don’t care if you lose in battles.

You ever heard of the Yin and the Yang? That’s the ranger and the pet. They should compliment each other. If you’re going to build Yin and the Yin, I can’t really feel sorry for you.

lol @ not knowing who you are replying to.

First off, how do you know I need to learn to play? Do you know me? Second, I don’t need your “help” as I did not ask for it.

Maybe you are trying to “school” someone else in this thread. Take it to them, not me.

Secondly, I don’t use birds or cats. If someone would like to use them, good for them. The point I am making is….a person should not have to use a certain pet in order to be effective. ALL pets should be. Anet dropped the ball on moving targets and pets ability to hit them.

Fanboisim statements like yours confirms there are plenty of dolts that just take mediocre mechanics and deal with them, and use the tired old statement of “l2p” to compensate.

The only thing your post is missing is calling someone “son”. But keep it up, I am sure you can get there.

Relax, son.

Atherakhia.4086:

Kasama.8941:

It’s not 40%. Just look at the Rangers base weapon damage, and compare it to the weapon base damage of other professions, and you can see that it’s not 40%. Take greatsword damage for instance; the Ranger deals 203-203-240 with auto-attack, while the Warrior deals 259-259-333 damage on auto-attack (plus 2% vulnerability). Clearly, that’s not 40%.

However it’s important to remember that combat in Guild Wars 2 is not static, but constantly moving. If you don’t hit, you don’t deal damage. You also have to consider that the pet doesn’t deal 30% of the damage you deal, but that it has its own damage output, and is capable of dealing some good burst damage as well. And that, when the pet is hitting your target, while you are out of your targets damage range, you have an advantage.

It’s not just the raw damage, but the coefficients as well. So while the raw damage may only be 27.5% different on the first 2 swings, there’s also a 27% difference in their coefficients. The third attack is 38% higher in raw damage and the coefficient.

Now as for quantifying the pet, you must also find some way to account for the pets downtime for being dead. the downtime for running to a target. The fact that the pet can’t hit a moving target but maybe 1 in 3 shots. The fact that F2 abilities have a near 50% failure rate because they either miss outright or misfire.

But then you also have to consider that the Rangers third attack has an evade, meaning the Warrior could end up only dealing 259-259 damage.

Yes, but the pet isn’t dead 100% of the time, and the Ranger has more crowd control then any other profession for a reason. Even if the pet only hits 3 out of 8 attacks, it is also possible to make up for that lose of damage, if you use the River Drake’s F2 skill on your opponent. Or you simply chain crowd control your opponent, to allow your pet to hit more often.

Solandri.9640:

Kasama.8941:

It’s not 40%. Just look at the Rangers base weapon damage, and compare it to the weapon base damage of other professions, and you can see that it’s not 40%. Take greatsword damage for instance; the Ranger deals 203-203-240 with auto-attack, while the Warrior deals 259-259-333 damage on auto-attack (plus 2% vulnerability). Clearly, that’s not 40%.

For DPS purposes, the damage and damage coefficients are useless if you don’t know the weapon’s attack speed. e.g. Shortbow’s coefficients are about half of longbow’s, but they do about the same DPS because shortbow fires twice as quickly.

I was simply pointing out that it’s not 40%, or 50% as many players likes to claim as well. To get a real estimate, you’d have to take in to account too many variables. Like the fact that the Ranger has an evade on auto-attack, that makes the opponent miss an attack. Or control skills, like a canine that knocks down an opponent, that prevents a that opponent from dealing any damage at all, and allows the pet to get more hits in.

Vaxx.3178:

Chopps.5047:

lol @ stubbornness

You need to learn to play. I’m trying to help you. But go ahead and keep using cats and birds on moving targets without any crowd control or cripple. You must like not hitting things. Go ahead and pick useless pets for your build, I really don’t care if you lose in battles.

You ever heard of the Yin and the Yang? That’s the ranger and the pet. They should compliment each other. If you’re going to build Yin and the Yin, I can’t really feel sorry for you.

lol @ not knowing who you are replying to.

First off, how do you know I need to learn to play? Do you know me? Second, I don’t need your “help” as I did not ask for it.

Maybe you are trying to “school” someone else in this thread. Take it to them, not me.

Secondly, I don’t use birds or cats. If someone would like to use them, good for them. The point I am making is….a person should not have to use a certain pet in order to be effective. ALL pets should be. Anet dropped the ball on moving targets and pets ability to hit them.

Fanboisim statements like yours confirms there are plenty of dolts that just take mediocre mechanics and deal with them, and use the tired old statement of “l2p” to compensate.

The only thing your post is missing is calling someone “son”. But keep it up, I am sure you can get there.

Pet has to fit build. It’s like saying “I don’t care I traited my warrior for GS, I want to have top results with hammer”.

And just because someone doesn’t agree with you, doesn’t make him fanboy. Unless you are hater lol

You never fail to entertain, Chopps! Man, you’re a hoot!

Terkov.4138:

Vaxx.3178:

Chopps.5047:

lol @ stubbornness

You need to learn to play. I’m trying to help you. But go ahead and keep using cats and birds on moving targets without any crowd control or cripple. You must like not hitting things. Go ahead and pick useless pets for your build, I really don’t care if you lose in battles.

You ever heard of the Yin and the Yang? That’s the ranger and the pet. They should compliment each other. If you’re going to build Yin and the Yin, I can’t really feel sorry for you.

lol @ not knowing who you are replying to.

First off, how do you know I need to learn to play? Do you know me? Second, I don’t need your “help” as I did not ask for it.

Maybe you are trying to “school” someone else in this thread. Take it to them, not me.

Secondly, I don’t use birds or cats. If someone would like to use them, good for them. The point I am making is….a person should not have to use a certain pet in order to be effective. ALL pets should be. Anet dropped the ball on moving targets and pets ability to hit them.

Fanboisim statements like yours confirms there are plenty of dolts that just take mediocre mechanics and deal with them, and use the tired old statement of “l2p” to compensate.

The only thing your post is missing is calling someone “son”. But keep it up, I am sure you can get there.

Pet has to fit build. It’s like saying “I don’t care I traited my warrior for GS, I want to have top results with hammer”.

And just because someone doesn’t agree with you, doesn’t make him fanboy. Unless you are hater lol

I agree. However a build not working with a certain pet (i.e. birds) due to wonky pet mechanics is NOT the fault of the Ranger, but Anet. Trying to make it sound like the pet fail is the person, not the game is a on the fanboy side. Defending a Band-Aid approach instead of the problem is exactly why issues don’t get fixed.

Warriors out damage us by a ton.

Lol, no warriors don’t. This again? This was put to rest months ago with the spotter buff and introduction of vigorous spirits. Ranger is awesome in pve except for the occasional pet getting nuked.

Chopps.5047:

Ranger is awesome in pve except for the occasional pet getting nuked.

Cough

The new content being added, and it looks like it will continue to be added, the pet lasts 3 seconds on a good day.

Chopps.5047:

lol @ stubbornness

You need to learn to play. I’m trying to help you. But go ahead and keep using cats and birds on moving targets without any crowd control or cripple. You must like not hitting things. Go ahead and pick useless pets for your build, I really don’t care if you lose in battles.

You ever heard of the Yin and the Yang? That’s the ranger and the pet. They should compliment each other. If you’re going to build Yin and the Yin, I can’t really feel sorry for you.

Or they can fix our pets AI so that we’re not forced to bring useless utilities to aid our pet in doing what it’s supposed to be doing in the first place. Jus sayin..

Kasama.8941:

But then you also have to consider that the Rangers third attack has an evade, meaning the Warrior could end up only dealing 259-259 damage.

And the ranger gives up attack speed to justify the evade, making GS even worse of a dps source. This has nothing to do with your pet’s dps %.

Yes, but the pet isn’t dead 100% of the time, and the Ranger has more crowd control then any other profession for a reason. Even if the pet only hits 3 out of 8 attacks, it is also possible to make up for that lose of damage, if you use the River Drake’s F2 skill on your opponent. Or you simply chain crowd control your opponent, to allow your pet to hit more often.

Warriors, engineers, necros, and guardians have superior cc. Even elementalists have cc that’s close to on-par with rangers. I’m not even sure why this is being mentioned though; the pet’s inability to hit a slowly moving target that doesn’t have swiftness is not the fault of the ranger. Also, you shouldn’t mention drake f2 as an example of efficient damage, because the windup combined with the fact that they cannot follow a target that goes to the side/behind them with the skill makes them awful.

I was simply pointing out that it’s not 40%, or 50% as many players likes to claim as well. To get a real estimate, you’d have to take in to account too many variables. Like the fact that the Ranger has an evade on auto-attack, that makes the opponent miss an attack. Or control skills, like a canine that knocks down an opponent, that prevents a that opponent from dealing any damage at all, and allows the pet to get more hits in.

What does the ranger’s evade on auto have to do with pet’s % of damage output anyway? The fact is that pets have awful pathing which makes them terrible balance references when calculating raw numbers, which Anet did when balancing the ranger’s base damage and coefficients.

Chopps.5047:

No traits? You’re missing steady focus (10% dmg while endurance is full), spotter (5% dmg roughly), vigorous spirits (7% dmg flat), as well hunter’s tactics (10% dmg while flanking) or our free scholar rune Peak Strength (+10% dmg while health is above 90%); you’re missing potention companion’s might + fortifying bond + sigil of strength (25 stack might on pet), or Furious grip (fury on swap).

That’s how ranger brings the DPS.

Few professions are so weak without traits. Consider that in your DPS tests.

When do you have full endurance or above 90% health after the fight has been going on for more than a few seconds? As soon as you take damage or dodge, you lose your % bonus for the rest of the encounter unless you are literally standing off to the side and using a longbow, while also being completely ignored. You must also be flanking for your flanking trait to do anything, which is not difficult for people to avoid in small-group fights. That’s 3 damage increases that are exceedingly unreliable when compared to their counterparts on other professions, which is the compounded upon by the fact that our pets have bad ai, which ties into your example of stacking 25 might on your pet.

$10 says OP was using a Bear …. which is hardly even 20% damage.

…that, Or this whole thread was started just to rustle some jimmies
(since he strangely hasn’t replied again yet to clarify the initial charge)

Leuca.5732:

Chopps.5047:

No traits? You’re missing steady focus (10% dmg while endurance is full), spotter (5% dmg roughly), vigorous spirits (7% dmg flat), as well hunter’s tactics (10% dmg while flanking) or our free scholar rune Peak Strength (+10% dmg while health is above 90%); you’re missing potention companion’s might + fortifying bond + sigil of strength (25 stack might on pet), or Furious grip (fury on swap).

That’s how ranger brings the DPS.

Few professions are so weak without traits. Consider that in your DPS tests.

When do you have full endurance or above 90% health after the fight has been going on for more than a few seconds? As soon as you take damage or dodge, you lose your % bonus for the rest of the encounter unless you are literally standing off to the side and using a longbow, while also being completely ignored. You must also be flanking for your flanking trait to do anything, which is not difficult for people to avoid in small-group fights. That’s 3 damage increases that are exceedingly unreliable when compared to their counterparts on other professions, which is the compounded upon by the fact that our pets have bad ai, which ties into your example of stacking 25 might on your pet.

Flanking is stupidly easy with ranged weapon, it’s enough to strafe. Bonus from dodges or full hp is much harder to keep, but it depends what we talk about. In PvP total dmg output doesn’t matter that much (burst ftw… but we lack it lol) and in PvE there is no problem to stay at full endurance (esp. with sword) and above 90% hp.

Leuca.5732:

And the ranger gives up attack speed to justify the evade, making GS even worse of a dps source. This has nothing to do with your pet’s dps %.

Warriors, engineers, necros, and guardians have superior cc. Even elementalists have cc that’s close to on-par with rangers. I’m not even sure why this is being mentioned though; the pet’s inability to hit a slowly moving target that doesn’t have swiftness is not the fault of the ranger. Also, you shouldn’t mention drake f2 as an example of efficient damage, because the windup combined with the fact that they cannot follow a target that goes to the side/behind them with the skill makes them awful.

What does the ranger’s evade on auto have to do with pet’s % of damage output anyway? The fact is that pets have awful pathing which makes them terrible balance references when calculating raw numbers, which Anet did when balancing the ranger’s base damage and coefficients.

If your opponent misses an attack, he deals less damage then you. It has to do with the total damage you deal, compared to other professions, which is what we were talking about. I don’t know why you think we were talking about the pets damage percentage?

Warriors, Engineers, Necromancers, and Guardians do not have superior crowd control to the Ranger. The Ranger can have up to 7 sources of crowd control, when you include pets. No other professions has that.

If your pet doesn’t hit, then how is it not your fault as a player, when you have solutions available to you? The pet AI is never going to completely take over, you will always have control of what your pet does. If your River Drakes F2 skill misses, because your opponent is running freely all over the place, it is your fault for activation the F2 skill at the wrong time. You have to make the most of what you got.

Kasama.8941:

Leuca.5732:

And the ranger gives up attack speed to justify the evade, making GS even worse of a dps source. This has nothing to do with your pet’s dps %.

Warriors, engineers, necros, and guardians have superior cc. Even elementalists have cc that’s close to on-par with rangers. I’m not even sure why this is being mentioned though; the pet’s inability to hit a slowly moving target that doesn’t have swiftness is not the fault of the ranger. Also, you shouldn’t mention drake f2 as an example of efficient damage, because the windup combined with the fact that they cannot follow a target that goes to the side/behind them with the skill makes them awful.

What does the ranger’s evade on auto have to do with pet’s % of damage output anyway? The fact is that pets have awful pathing which makes them terrible balance references when calculating raw numbers, which Anet did when balancing the ranger’s base damage and coefficients.

If your opponent misses an attack, he deals less damage then you. It has to do with the total damage you deal, compared to other professions, which is what we were talking about. I don’t know why you think we were talking about the pets damage percentage?

Warriors, Engineers, Necromancers, and Guardians do not have superior crowd control to the Ranger. The Ranger can have up to 7 sources of crowd control, when you include pets. No other professions has that.

If your pet doesn’t hit, then how is it not your fault as a player, when you have solutions available to you? The pet AI is never going to completely take over, you will always have control of what your pet does. If your River Drakes F2 skill misses, because your opponent is running freely all over the place, it is your fault for activation the F2 skill at the wrong time. You have to make the most of what you got.

Quantity does not make up for quality. Every single one of the classes you mentioned has much more valuable forms of CC aside from the Engineer (which I don’t play and know nothing about). And that’s ignoring the fact they each provide infinitely more utility to a group in addition to the CC.

The fact that the pet is so unreliable is also one of the most highly complained about issues with this class. It’s not player error. It’s ANet not making pets useable.

This is why things never change… I feel like every ANet appologist plays a Ranger.

Chopps.5047:

Stop using cats and birds. It’s been shown time and again that you need muddy terrain or some kind of cripple for those pets (sword) to land. Why aren’t you using spiders or dogs? They land hits reliably.

Havent tried dogs yet but spider misses just as much as the rest for me. Not stationery objects in pve, but it misses almost everything in wvw.

You better check again because they don’t do too badly. Maybe with their aoe poison shot. That’s a slow attack. But I been using paralyze spider all week. Works great.