Issue with home point defending
I am trying to run home point defender as a ranger, since I am working on champion hunter and I can only run home point. I have been trying spirit ranger but I l run into the situation where I last a long time but usually I am unable to kill anyone.
Before I would run minionmancer at home point and pretty much never had to ask for help and never die. But now that I got the champion phantom, I would like to start working on champion hunter.
Firstly, it’s MINION MASTER, not minionmancer, secondly, what’s your build? That’ll help a lot.
Also, do NOT run spirit master if you are home point defender, you’re just gimping yourself. Spirits are meant to support you and your allies, running that build mainly by yourself is playing subotptimally. I’m not saying to never bunker down on a point alone as spirit build, but you shouldn’t be there most the time.
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
A lot of people call them minionmancers in a lot of different games.
At any rate, what difference does it make if you kill anyone as a home point bunker? Conquest is not a game of killing, it’s a game of stalling. Your goal is to stay on point and not die. That’s it.
Head to head you can kill many FPAs, but they’ll simply leave instead of letting you finish them. The other scenario is a duo comes to attack you, and in that case your goal is to hold out long enough for your roamers to come kill them.
Edit: Actually, are you talking about soloq? Where team support is unreliable at best? If that’s the case maybe try a trapper. They have more condi pressure than spirits.
(edited by Fluffball.8307)
BM bunker is better for home point defender. Its more defensive than spirits, can last longer, and doesnt have buffs to share, so being solo is fine. Spirits are better for mid bunker as the team benefits more from the buffs, and as someone said above, go to waste if theyre at home point. With BM bunker you can generally wear down most enemies with condi spam and should easily survive a 2v1 situation.
BM Bunker: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQRAnY8fjEq0yaFLOsQ1agMhqdAksd67bIFSVXVwFLVlE-TJhHABPVGw2TCAAPBgM2fAA
LR can be swapped for SoR for additional condi removal and stunbreak, however I like LR for the stun/immob break, dodge and leap back. SoS can be swapped for SotH for added mobility, and technically increased pet damage, at the loss of defence.
Sigil of renewal can be swapped for corruption or energy depending on preference. Energy is a good option for extra dodges. Corruption is not so great for sPvP (great for WvW roaming though) as defence is more important than offence being a point bunker, and you may build stacks 1v1 or 2v1, but if you get overwhelmed and rushed you will lose all your stacks. Renewal is an option I have been testing recently. heals for close to 1k with healing power, which doesnt sound like too much, but its every weapon swap which is basically whenever swap is off cooldown, and isnt too bad considering the reduced stats/damage in sPvP and can sometimes mean the difference between life and death in a tight situation.
2 traits can be swapped depending on preference. Oakheart salve can be swapped for offhand training, giving bigger bonfire AoE Radius for bigger on point condi pressure, at the loss of defence. Speed training can be swapped for another pet type specific trait if you specialise in one kind of pet as in 2 wolves or 2 cats etc. I preffer having jaguar for dps and wolf for CC however.
(edited by Filterkat.2143)
I’ve been having quite a bit of success with this celestial gives you just enough damage to get a kill with good survival. short-bow and cat for offense, a gs and wolf for the defense
it’s pretty good at holding and often winning a 1v1 and can do a 2v1 for a little while, use a cleric amualte to hold 2v1s better,
I’ve been having quite a bit of success with this celestial gives you just enough damage to get a kill with good survival. short-bow and cat for offense, a gs and wolf for the defense
it’s pretty good at holding and often winning a 1v1 and can do a 2v1 for a little while, use a cleric amualte to hold 2v1s better,
Sorry, but this build is not great. It doesn’t optimise damage or defence and needs better condi clear. Melandru runes is ok for short conditions, but conditions with a large duration will still do significant damage before they are cleared, even if they do clear faster than usual. Purity only removes 1 condition on a 10 second cooldown opposed to EB clearing 3/10 seconds and/or SoR 1/10 seconds + full condi wipe + stun break on use. You also lack regen.
Damage wise this build doesnt seem to know what its doing. SB is an ok hybrid weapon and can benefit from power/precision/condi and ferocity so I can see why you chose this weapon with celestial, but being celestial, neither power, nor condi damage is optimised. GS is a pure power weapon and doesnt benefit from condi damage, and the reduced stat distribution from celestial makes neither weapon overly effective, all why not optimising your defence either.
The reason settlers/apothecary is so effective for most bunker builds, particularly rangers, is that condition damage scales and can be optimised off only 1 stat, whereas power damage to be optimal reqires 3 and apothecary/settlers optimises condition damage with 2 optimised defensive stats. Ranger is great at condition spam, so this is a great combination.
While Celestial can be a good option for certain classes/certain builds in certain situations, it generally doesnt work for pvp, particularly for rangers, as stat wise it doesnt optimise any stats, so it will never be great at defence/healing, power damage, or condition, only mediocre. And generally in tPvP against good players, there are only 2 main character setups. Burst damage, and bunkers. A burst character will burst you down faster than you can heal since healing/defence isnt optimised, and a bunker will outlast you because your damage isnt optimised.
I’ve been having quite a bit of success with this celestial gives you just enough damage to get a kill with good survival. short-bow and cat for offense, a gs and wolf for the defense
it’s pretty good at holding and often winning a 1v1 and can do a 2v1 for a little while, use a cleric amualte to hold 2v1s better,
Sorry, but this build is not great. It doesn’t optimise damage or defence and needs better condi clear. Melandru runes is ok for short conditions, but conditions with a large duration will still do significant damage before they are cleared, even if they do clear faster than usual. Purity only removes 1 condition on a 10 second cooldown opposed to EB clearing 3/10 seconds and/or SoR 1/10 seconds + full condi wipe + stun break on use. You also lack regen.
Damage wise this build doesnt seem to know what its doing. SB is an ok hybrid weapon and can benefit from power/precision/condi and ferocity so I can see why you chose this weapon with celestial, but being celestial, neither power, nor condi damage is optimised. GS is a pure power weapon and doesnt benefit from condi damage, and the reduced stat distribution from celestial makes neither weapon overly effective, all why not optimising your defence either.
The reason settlers/apothecary is so effective for most bunker builds, particularly rangers, is that condition damage scales and can be optimised off only 1 stat, whereas power damage to be optimal reqires 3 and apothecary/settlers optimises condition damage with 2 optimised defensive stats. Ranger is great at condition spam, so this is a great combination.
While Celestial can be a good option for certain classes/certain builds in certain situations, it generally doesnt work for pvp, particularly for rangers, as stat wise it doesnt optimise any stats, so it will never be great at defence/healing, power damage, or condition, only mediocre. And generally in tPvP against good players, there are only 2 main character setups. Burst damage, and bunkers. A burst character will burst you down faster than you can heal since healing/defence isnt optimised, and a bunker will outlast you because your damage isnt optimised.
No need to be sorry mate every one is entitled to there own opinion. But i will take the time to do some rebuttals.
First the point about not optimized, in regards to damage your pet is the damage dealer in this build you job is to soft cc, poison and deal some additional damage hence the short bow. Your cat hits like a truck, especially if you buff it with might form RaO then pop the signet and use F2 while you MT then to immobilize and provide fury. The celestial amulet with this build provides enough sustain that if you cant kill your opposition you can hold your own until help arrives.
For the point about lack of condition removal, you have sigil of purity gong of every 10s to remove incidental condi, remove poison on evade, two active condi clears LR and MT and Melandru’s to shorted short condis such as Fear, Chill, Cripple and imob. also in battling condis you have a lot of vitality form NM trait-line and the amulet plus regen form Signet of the wild and Natural Healing. For handling burst damage that is what Natures Protection is for.
Now for the lost stat when using the GS, i use the great sword for moving between the points quickly, for the evade on auto-attack for the block and for the stun, and mauls still hit pretty hard. saying the GS is a power weapon only, assumes that I’m using it for offense proposes. S/D could be use instead but i like the great sword, but that may just be me.
I think this whole min-max mentally is what make this game sometimes feel like a game of rock/paper/scissors. When you start thinking hybrid you can say to your self. If I’ve got this point capped and a bunker comes at me (you might be sitting on far at this point) than no-problem as they cant kill me, point stays mine. If and assaulter/burst-er comes at me all i have to do i survive there bursts (block, evade interrupt) and then out live them through sustained damage and pet spikes.
(edited by Eggyokeo.9705)
No need to be sorry mate every one is entitled to there own opinion. But i will take the time to do some rebuttals.
First the point about not optimized, in regards to damage your pet is the damage dealer in this build you job is to soft cc, poison and deal some additional damage hence the short bow. Your cat hits like a truck, especially if you buff it with might form RaO then pop the signet and use F2 while you MT then to immobilize and provide fury. The celestial amulet with this build provides enough sustain that if you cant kill your opposition you can hold your own until help arrives.
For the point about lack of condition removal, you have sigil of purity gong of every 10s to remove incidental condi, remove poison on evade, two active condi clears LR and MT and Melandru’s to shorted short condis such as Fear, Chill, Cripple and imob. also in battling condis you have a lot of vitality form NM trait-line and the amulet plus regen form Signet of the wild and Natural Healing. For handling burst damage that is what Natures Protection is for.
Now for the lost stat when using the GS, i use the great sword for moving between the points quickly, for the evade on auto-attack for the block and for the stun, and mauls still hit pretty hard. saying the GS is a power weapon only, assumes that I’m using it for offense proposes. S/D could be use instead but i like the great sword, but that may just be me.
I think this whole min-max mentally is what make this game sometimes feel like a game of rock/paper/scissors. When you start thinking hybrid you can say to your self. If I’ve got this point capped and a bunker comes at me (you might be sitting on far at this point) than no-problem as they cant kill me, point stays mine. If and assaulter/burst-er comes at me all i have to do i survive there bursts (block, evade interrupt) and then out live them through sustained damage and pet spikes.
Relying on your pet for damage is generally a bad idea aside from PvE. in PvP in mobile situations pets are easily dodged or kited as animations are generally fairly obvious. Jaguar in stealth can be good but the stealth has a cooldown. You may be applying soft CC to allow your pet to hit more often however you are better off having the pet CC + damage (wolf or possibly spider) and you focusing on damage yourself, since you tend to be more of a reliable source of damage than your pet.
Looking back over the condi cleanse you do have sufficient cleanse, i will give you that one. but still lack healing to be effective at point holding. A good bunker will eventually wear you down, because his healing is superior, so he will outheal your damage, even if it is better than his damage. You may survive for a while, but if you stay on point, he will eventually wear you down as your healing isnt as high as it could be, and you lack regen. TU just wont cut it alone even against a mediocre damage bunker, as he will wear you down between cooldowns.
Against a good burst player, your defence wont be up to par. Even full bunkers can fall prey to a full burst mesmer or theif if caught off guard, and their healing and defence is superior to yours as they have invested much more stat points into those stats, and their entire build revolves around defence. So against an experienced burst/roamer how do you expect to stand a chance. Especially considering you will most likely have to deal with a theifs stealth, or a mesmers stealth and clones in this situation, which makes it dificult for you to apply damage to them, so even if you do outlast their initial burst, they will either stealth or clone and distract you long enough to complete another burst on you which will finnish you off.
Mobility shouldnt be an issue for a point holder, as generally the roamers will get there before you anyway, and can usually decap it and hold their own until you arrive to secure the point. Once you are on point and defending, Mobility is useless.
It seems like you are trying to fill the roles of both bunker/point holder and a roamer, which unfortunately are at completely opposite ends of the spectrum stat/trait wise.
Don’t get me wrong, you may have fun and success with this build in hotjoin or solo q against mediocre players which is fine if that is what you like to do, but in team arena against an experienced team with a set comp you will get destroyed.
If you are struggling with home point defending and you can’t kill properly they you need a duelist build rather than a bull bunker with spirits. Duelist meaning the type of bunker ranger that is more focused on dealing damage while surviving for a long time, rather than the one who will survive for a long time and whose skills focus on that primarily. The good thing is that there are tons of variations to the approach, so you can take any build posted here and modify it to what feels right. The only way you will know that this build works is to jump in 1vs1 non rated fights, play with the build and tweak it to your own style until you can solidly defeat most opponents. Focus on being able to take down mesmers and thieves first, those are the peskiest. Guardians and warriors come next, then necros and engineers will be the toughest. Your opponents should ideally have a ‘point defender’ build with an approach to defeating enemies in 1 vs 1, 2 vs 1 and 3 vs 1. Also make sure you challenge enemies who run these builds but with different approaches, for example pistol whip thief vs pistol/dagger thief, vs sword/pistol thief… etc. The most difficult will always be the skill of the player, without a doubt, but as a ranger I would recommend to stay clear of engineers as they can easily force you to fight inside the capture point, if you let them do that then you’re in for a quick death.
My preferred build is this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNAV8fjEq0xaLLmsQ1aABhaVA0uGS2l1d+eDfdBbqA-TphAwAeOCAL3fgcZAAHEgOXAgNPAAA
Highly efficient vs all enemies, the only drawback is (like everything in pvp) your own ability to use it to its fullest potential. Your greatest enemies are burning bunker guardians and skilled rangers who can overcome your own skill.
Mon Fils — Favorable Winds [Wind] — Blackgate
Ranger’s guide to PvP/WvW: http://tinyurl.com/oht3e9z
Ranger’s guide to PvP/WvW: http://tinyurl.com/oht3e9z