Hey guys, you probably all know I love being a BM, but me and my guildies were discussing this topic a few nights ago and I thought I’d share.
The main thing that holds the ranger back in PvE is our pet, as much as I love it dealing so much damage, we get bonned because it just flat out doesn’t scale off of us. So why not just make them scale? Well for starters that’d make ranger pets lose a lot of their uniqueness IE tank cats and DPS bears (as much as I’d love that) and itd remove some customization from the rangers. iE you couldn’t be a tanky ranger with a DPS pet.
However that’s not our only problem, the real kicker is that ATM every other prof deals 100% damage, where a ranger does ~60% and their pet does ~40%, this would be fine and all, if our pets didn’t get shafted all the time. NO OTHER PROFESSION gets a utility and damage loss for not utilizing their mechanic properly. Sure they all take a hit, but it’s not nearly as drastic.
What I propose is that they make it so rangers deal ~90% damage, and they make it so a ranger deals anywhere from 110%-120% damage while their pet is up, this way the rangers pet becomes a scary thing the enemy wants to bring down. Not only that but the ranger also isn’t totally shafted if the pet does and can still fend for themselves.
What are your guys thoughts?
I don’t think thats fair, if the split were 80%/20% untraited, and they didn’t die in pve every 10s then maybe. Traited it should become 80%/40%
I don’t think thats fair, if the split were 80%/20% untraited, and they didn’t die in pve every 10s then maybe. Traited it should become 80%/40%
Shoulda specified traited xD, my bad.
Durz~
We recently discussed this in another thread, and I finally realized the logical component behind this. It essentially is the same idea as what I proposed in decreasing the pet factor to 10% base, adding more for the Ranger coefficients. I can compare this to warrior, assuming they are 100% base untraited, they can escalate through traits (15% damage + 15% crit chance) to somewhere between 120-140% base damage.
If our mechanic offered an equivalent potential to boost via traiting, up to 120% (less than warrior since their mechanic isn’t quite as versatile, but also unkillable,) we have an established way to become just as viable. I would also at the same time like to see a way to hit 110-130% via traits that would affect the Ranger more as well, but I would be satisfied with a 90/10 split with the potential for 90-30….
Just my 2¢.
it would be a start to fix the kittenin pet f2 skills, it feels like 50 % of them dont work couse u move out of the range while the pet cast his buff or the player/mob moves out of leap range….what i want to say – make every pet f2 skills instant
I recently made a similar topic. Rangers are the only class that can be handicapped by their class mechanic. Ranger starts handicapped and the pet has to make up for it.
Power builds can never reach the potential of other classes because the pet is dead or unusable in many situations (some PVE boss battles and WvW walls).
Fyi, the beastmaster bunker build would evaporate upon this change, are you sure that’s a good thing? I love a good ol 2v1 where I can sick my pet on an extra target and do some damage, or dps down the person that’s down…I fear this change would make pets far too weak. Be careful what you wish for…Btw, can’t we just remove the death penalty for pets in dungeons and make the cooldown always 15 or 20 s depending on the trait?
Well many of this things have been talked before..Some say aoe dmg reduction,some say dodge while Ranger dodges,some say remove em completly and give us the dmg back,…..theres a long list.
The fact is that Anet things that a Vitality boost will work(little by little every patch),i cant understand why this will work but i geuss that theres a plan..
(edited by Dardamaniac.1295)
I think the shifting in damage is too great this way however I would welcome more damage from the pet to be transferred to the ranger, a flat 10% shift on overall maximum combined dps perhaps as a start so that BM would still be a good spec to go for otherwise if you were to lower their dps by as much as you propose you’d need a big overhaul in the BM trailine with serious buffs to utility to the point they would almost have to be OP to be a viable option.
I think for content where pets can barely be used some changes are definetly needed there needs to be a way to keep your pet alive aside from petswap any situation that would kill you and one dodge will save you you need the some option of actively saving your pet aswell and/or if they become downed I think we should have the option of ressurecting our pets again via the F buttons in the same manor we would a player we have to stop everything else during that so it’s a choice to make when it is most beneficial but atleast you would have the option of bringing your pet back rather than just waiting for a timer.
Well, this thread has all the tropes for a cliche pet thread:
Honestly, these are old ideas and it’s beating a dead horse with a dead horse sewn together from dead horses that were fed dead pets. At least we’re being polite though, which is a step in the right direction.
What I propose is that they make it so rangers deal ~90% damage, and they make it so a ranger deals anywhere from 110%-120% damage while their pet is up, this way the rangers pet becomes a scary thing the enemy wants to bring down. Not only that but the ranger also isn’t totally shafted if the pet does and can still fend for themselves.
This, like communism, sounds good in theory. The problem is that the Ranger, and not the pet, receives the benefits of these changes which wouldn’t solve any problems with the pet mechanic other than increasing the Ranger dps and inspiring lazier pet management, leaving the pet in the current or an even greater state of disdain. The pet would not be the scary thing to take down as you’re suggesting, it would still carry the same damage output or less as it had before while traited and much less while not, the Ranger would be much more important to target since pets will still carry their previous flaws.
I would also at the same time like to see a way to hit 110-130% via traits that would affect the Ranger more as well, but I would be satisfied with a 90/10 split with the potential for 90-30
I have the opposite view, however, if you’re reducing pet dps and increasing player dps, I’d like traits like Hunter’s Tactics, Peak Strength and Steady Focus to affect myself and my pet, like Bountiful Hunter can, allowing me to be able to increase both.
I think we should have the option of ressurecting our pets again via the F buttons in the same manor we would a player we have to stop everything else during that so it’s a choice to make when it is most beneficial but atleast you would have the option of bringing your pet back rather than just waiting for a timer.
This was an unintentional ability that was in the game at launch and was quickly removed in a patch update not long after (with-in a month of launching I believe). It was not very effective since you were resurrecting a dead (not downed) ally which takes longer than necessary and wouldn’t be a high priority by party members. In the end. 60% (if we can trust that metric) is still better than 0%, and if you can kill something in less-than a minute, you’re better off waiting to get out of combat to stow-revive it. If not, swapping is your best answer. And finally, if it is already dead and on cool down, reviving it won’t help it stay alive longer because the encounter and /or pet choice is not ideal.
Edit: apparently you can’t put has and hit beside eachother without getting hakitten
(edited by Lunchbox.9543)
This was an unintentional ability that was in the game at launch and was quickly removed in a patch update not long after (with-in a month of launching I believe). It was not very effective since you were resurrecting a dead (not downed) ally which takes longer than necessary and wouldn’t be a high priority by party members. In the end. 60% (if we can trust that metric) is still better than 0%, and if you can kill something in less-than a minute, you’re better off waiting to get out of combat to stow-revive it. If not, swapping is your best answer. And finally, if it is already dead and on cool down, reviving it won’t help it stay alive longer because the encounter and /or pet choice is not ideal.
Edit: apparently you can’t put has and hit beside eachother without getting hakitten
Sorry you misunderstood me and I actually forgot the interact key is F by default, what I mean was F1 F2 or F3 would toggle to ressurect your pet so this would only be avalible to the owner of the pet, other players wouldn’t unintentionally start ressing pets wich was complained about alot at launch, and also your pet wouldn’t “be dead” it would be like ressing a downed person or maybe give it a period of downed state before dying, something like that.
That makes more sense than a standard resurrection.
+1 for lunchbox, totally agree…but lunchbox, let me ask you this on pet Resurrection:
Why doesn’t the spirit elite resurrect dead pets? It IS the spirit of nature, after all. XD
Hey guys, you probably all know I love being a BM, but me and my guildies were discussing this topic a few nights ago and I thought I’d share.
The main thing that holds the ranger back in PvE is our pet, as much as I love it dealing so much damage, we get bonned because it just flat out doesn’t scale off of us. So why not just make them scale? Well for starters that’d make ranger pets lose a lot of their uniqueness IE tank cats and DPS bears (as much as I’d love that) and itd remove some customization from the rangers. iE you couldn’t be a tanky ranger with a DPS pet.
However that’s not our only problem, the real kicker is that ATM every other prof deals 100% damage, where a ranger does ~60% and their pet does ~40%, this would be fine and all, if our pets didn’t get shafted all the time. NO OTHER PROFESSION gets a utility and damage loss for not utilizing their mechanic properly. Sure they all take a hit, but it’s not nearly as drastic.
What I propose is that they make it so rangers deal ~90% damage, and they make it so a ranger deals anywhere from 110%-120% damage while their pet is up, this way the rangers pet becomes a scary thing the enemy wants to bring down. Not only that but the ranger also isn’t totally shafted if the pet does and can still fend for themselves.
What are your guys thoughts?
Your concept that you can’t be a tanker ranger with a DPS pet, or reverse isn’t true. All they need is conditionals. Pet receives x% power from toughness and y% power from vitality kind of thing and less x and y% to those respective stats. Now if you have really high toughness and vitality but low power your pet has high power and lower toughness and vitality. DPS pet for a tanky ranger. If you choose that pet as a DPS ranger, though, since your toughness and vitality will invariably lower it works out because they don’t get much bonus to power and don’t lose much to toughness and vitality.
Why doesn’t the spirit elite resurrect dead pets?
because Scooby didn’t “Search and Rescue.”
But in all fairness, trading 60 (48) second cool down for a four-minute one is a very, very bad gimmick.
(edited by Lunchbox.9543)
Why doesn’t the spirit elite resurrect dead pets?
because Scooby didn’t “Search and Rescue.”
But in all fairness, trading 60 (48) second cool down for a four-minute one is a very, very bad gimmick.
I wouldn’t use it as a device necessarily or a crux of a build. It’s just one of those little things that would be a nice bonus, that’s all. I’m just saying: the Spirit of Nature must not be very natural if it can’t revive dead pets. :P Maybe the name should be changed to the Lesser Spirit of Nature? ahaha
Isn’t every class that isn’t using is class mechanic loosing potential?. A necromancer who does not use deathshourd is less durable than one that does, right?.
How is pet more scary if the ranger is 90% of the damage you are recieving?. pets with 30points in BM account as if they were equiped with the best gear right? best of all it’s free =D(relatively speaking).
I had my own thought on how to fix pets. Take out existing F4, it’s beyond useless. Replace it with a new pet ability: Sniff. And what would Sniff do? Apply x seconds of Revealed to invisible enemies in y radius.
I can already hear the wailing from the Thief board, and it is as beautiful as any symphony.
I had my own thought on how to fix pets. Take out existing F4, it’s beyond useless. Replace it with a new pet ability: Sniff. And what would Sniff do? Apply x seconds of Revealed to invisible enemies in y radius.
I can already hear the wailing from the Thief board, and it is as beautiful as any symphony.
You think removing petswap seemed like a good idea huh? O.o
I had my own thought on how to fix pets. Take out existing F4, it’s beyond useless. Replace it with a new pet ability: Sniff. And what would Sniff do? Apply x seconds of Revealed to invisible enemies in y radius.
I can already hear the wailing from the Thief board, and it is as beautiful as any symphony.
You think removing petswap seemed like a good idea huh? O.o
Ugh, no, sorry, I meant Stow. Is that F3? It’s been a while since I used my ranger.
Meh, pets are probably a lot closer to a good place than you guys think. Just my opinion but I’d be careful what I wish for, that’s all. Enough said.
I recently made a similar topic. Rangers are the only class that can be handicapped by their class mechanic. Ranger starts handicapped and the pet has to make up for it.
Power builds can never reach the potential of other classes because the pet is dead or unusable in many situations (some PVE boss battles and WvW walls).
Even if the pet is alive, your stats mean less than other classes, because your weaponskills do less damage regardless due to pet being a portion of damage… BUT your pet doesn’t scale with your stats!
This inherently means that power, condition damage, etc. is less valuable to a ranger than anyone else.
I recently made a similar topic. Rangers are the only class that can be handicapped by their class mechanic. Ranger starts handicapped and the pet has to make up for it.
Power builds can never reach the potential of other classes because the pet is dead or unusable in many situations (some PVE boss battles and WvW walls).
Even if the pet is alive, your stats mean less than other classes, because your weaponskills do less damage regardless due to pet being a portion of damage… BUT your pet doesn’t scale with your stats!
This inherently means that power, condition damage, etc. is less valuable to a ranger than anyone else.
Exactly, except I think this is only the case for the power stat. It’s too ridiculous for words really.
I recently made a similar topic. Rangers are the only class that can be handicapped by their class mechanic. Ranger starts handicapped and the pet has to make up for it.
Power builds can never reach the potential of other classes because the pet is dead or unusable in many situations (some PVE boss battles and WvW walls).
Even if the pet is alive, your stats mean less than other classes, because your weaponskills do less damage regardless due to pet being a portion of damage… BUT your pet doesn’t scale with your stats!
This inherently means that power, condition damage, etc. is less valuable to a ranger than anyone else.
Actually, the only stats for rangers which are essentially, well, not very good, are Power/Precision/Crit damage, aka the meta stat build xD.
You could argue that now we have Companions Might that precision is super useful, which granted it is, but it’s only useful for procing effects, not the actual damage it increases. IE my DPS build (uses Rampagers) has a chance to proc 2 bleeds off of crit (sig of earth and Sharpened Edges) and then also grants my pets might on crit, so it’s pretty good still, kinda.
However if i were to go for a “Zerker” ranger it’s just terrible because my pet is a huge chunk of damage which never goes up unless i have points in BM, which we all know has a cap…
Sharpened Edges is a terrible, terrible trait. It’s (42.5 + (Cond *0.05)) damage at level 80, and will only tick once. You’re better off taking Pet’s Prowess regardless of pet choice, Agility Training if you don’t put swiftness on your pet, or Companion’s Might to stack Condition Damage on your pet, which will trigger 1/3 more than Sharpened Edges, and depending on weapon selection, can stack the pet’s condition damage close to or over even 1000 if you use Expertise Training.
If Sharpened Edges always provided a stack of bleeding on critical hits instead of the roughly 66% chance, it could be worthwhile. Instead, compared to the same traits in the adept level, it falls extremely short.
I recently made a similar topic. Rangers are the only class that can be handicapped by their class mechanic. Ranger starts handicapped and the pet has to make up for it.
Power builds can never reach the potential of other classes because the pet is dead or unusable in many situations (some PVE boss battles and WvW walls).
Even if the pet is alive, your stats mean less than other classes, because your weaponskills do less damage regardless due to pet being a portion of damage… BUT your pet doesn’t scale with your stats!
This inherently means that power, condition damage, etc. is less valuable to a ranger than anyone else.
Actually, the only stats for rangers which are essentially, well, not very good, are Power/Precision/Crit damage, aka the meta stat build xD.
You could argue that now we have Companions Might that precision is super useful, which granted it is, but it’s only useful for procing effects, not the actual damage it increases. IE my DPS build (uses Rampagers) has a chance to proc 2 bleeds off of crit (sig of earth and Sharpened Edges) and then also grants my pets might on crit, so it’s pretty good still, kinda.
However if i were to go for a “Zerker” ranger it’s just terrible because my pet is a huge chunk of damage which never goes up unless i have points in BM, which we all know has a cap…
This makes no sense at all, you’ll gain the benefit of companion’s might just as much on a “berserker crit” as you would a “rampager crit” and the added crit damage on a berserker would outweigh sharpened edges by so much it’s not even funny so if that is the point you’re making it’s a strange one to make, maybe you have worded it in a way that I don’t understand you properly but that’s what it sounds like to me and it’s just about the worst argument ever atleast that particular example.
I recently made a similar topic. Rangers are the only class that can be handicapped by their class mechanic. Ranger starts handicapped and the pet has to make up for it.
Power builds can never reach the potential of other classes because the pet is dead or unusable in many situations (some PVE boss battles and WvW walls).
Even if the pet is alive, your stats mean less than other classes, because your weaponskills do less damage regardless due to pet being a portion of damage… BUT your pet doesn’t scale with your stats!
This inherently means that power, condition damage, etc. is less valuable to a ranger than anyone else.
Actually, the only stats for rangers which are essentially, well, not very good, are Power/Precision/Crit damage, aka the meta stat build xD.
You could argue that now we have Companions Might that precision is super useful, which granted it is, but it’s only useful for procing effects, not the actual damage it increases. IE my DPS build (uses Rampagers) has a chance to proc 2 bleeds off of crit (sig of earth and Sharpened Edges) and then also grants my pets might on crit, so it’s pretty good still, kinda.
However if i were to go for a “Zerker” ranger it’s just terrible because my pet is a huge chunk of damage which never goes up unless i have points in BM, which we all know has a cap…
This makes no sense at all, you’ll gain the benefit of companion’s might just as much on a “berserker crit” as you would a “rampager crit” and the added crit damage on a berserker would outweigh sharpened edges by so much it’s not even funny so if that is the point you’re making it’s a strange one to make, maybe you have worded it in a way that I don’t understand you properly but that’s what it sounds like to me and it’s just about the worst argument ever atleast that particular example.
Well if you’re using Rampager gear you’re using condition damage… The only sort of damage we have that is on par with everyone else (because our scaling doesn’t suck), where if i used Zerker our damage doesn’t scale as well.
Is SE my whole source of damage? kitten no, it’s just sprinkles on the top, most of my damage comes from the other sources of bleeding, burning, and poison i have, i was just saying crit isn’t -that- bad for us because we can use it to proc things, like everyone else, and the things we proc with it aren’t screwed over by our kittenty power scaling.
Sharpened Edges is a terrible, terrible trait. It’s (42.5 + (Cond *0.05)) damage at level 80, and will only tick once. You’re better off taking Pet’s Prowess regardless of pet choice, Agility Training if you don’t put swiftness on your pet, or Companion’s Might to stack Condition Damage on your pet, which will trigger 1/3 more than Sharpened Edges, and depending on weapon selection, can stack the pet’s condition damage close to or over even 1000 if you use Expertise Training.
If Sharpened Edges always provided a stack of bleeding on critical hits instead of the roughly 66% chance, it could be worthwhile. Instead, compared to the same traits in the adept level, it falls extremely short.
Where did i say it was THE adept trait to use? I didn’t, i said i used it, you can take multiple adept traits you know. And i know how high my pets condi damage can go, that’s the main reason i use a devourer, those kittens are nasty with condi damage, same with reef and salamander drakes.
The key is to use skills that hit multiple times, like bonfire, or split blades, or WD, or traps, or barrage, etc etc for taking full advantage of the SE trait. I’ve gotten 15stacks of bleeding from 1 split blades so many times that i’m not really seeing the bad side of SE…
That being said i would like it to be buffed, it’d only make it that much stronger.
(edited by Durzlla.6295)
I recently made a similar topic. Rangers are the only class that can be handicapped by their class mechanic. Ranger starts handicapped and the pet has to make up for it.
Power builds can never reach the potential of other classes because the pet is dead or unusable in many situations (some PVE boss battles and WvW walls).
Even if the pet is alive, your stats mean less than other classes, because your weaponskills do less damage regardless due to pet being a portion of damage… BUT your pet doesn’t scale with your stats!
This inherently means that power, condition damage, etc. is less valuable to a ranger than anyone else.
Actually, the only stats for rangers which are essentially, well, not very good, are Power/Precision/Crit damage, aka the meta stat build xD.
You could argue that now we have Companions Might that precision is super useful, which granted it is, but it’s only useful for procing effects, not the actual damage it increases. IE my DPS build (uses Rampagers) has a chance to proc 2 bleeds off of crit (sig of earth and Sharpened Edges) and then also grants my pets might on crit, so it’s pretty good still, kinda.
However if i were to go for a “Zerker” ranger it’s just terrible because my pet is a huge chunk of damage which never goes up unless i have points in BM, which we all know has a cap…
This makes no sense at all, you’ll gain the benefit of companion’s might just as much on a “berserker crit” as you would a “rampager crit” and the added crit damage on a berserker would outweigh sharpened edges by so much it’s not even funny so if that is the point you’re making it’s a strange one to make, maybe you have worded it in a way that I don’t understand you properly but that’s what it sounds like to me and it’s just about the worst argument ever atleast that particular example.
Well if you’re using Rampager gear you’re using condition damage… The only sort of damage we have that is on par with everyone else (because our scaling doesn’t suck), where if i used Zerker our damage doesn’t scale as well.
Is SE my whole source of damage? kitten no, it’s just sprinkles on the top, most of my damage comes from the other sources of bleeding, burning, and poison i have, i was just saying crit isn’t -that- bad for us because we can use it to proc things, like everyone else, and the things we proc with it aren’t screwed over by our kittenty power scaling.
Yeah of course sharpened edges isn’t your whole damage but it was 1 of the examples you listed why crit would be good for rampager because of the proc effects and then you went to say that it’s terrible on berserker like that wouldn’t benefit from the same procs? when in reality berserker benefits from the actual crit itself in pure damage plus it has proc effects ontop of that, if anything it’s alot better and more valuable to have crit on berserker than rampager, although a crit is never bad as opposed to a noncrit of course.
(edited by Manekk.6981)
Sharpened Edges is a terrible, terrible trait. It’s (42.5 + (Cond *0.05)) damage at level 80, and will only tick once. You’re better off taking Pet’s Prowess regardless of pet choice, Agility Training if you don’t put swiftness on your pet, or Companion’s Might to stack Condition Damage on your pet, which will trigger 1/3 more than Sharpened Edges, and depending on weapon selection, can stack the pet’s condition damage close to or over even 1000 if you use Expertise Training.
If Sharpened Edges always provided a stack of bleeding on critical hits instead of the roughly 66% chance, it could be worthwhile. Instead, compared to the same traits in the adept level, it falls extremely short.
The nice thing about sharpened edges is that it doesn’t have an ICD so it actually can stack up a few times but even so the ridiculously short duration still makes it terrible and even on the highest of critchance the bleeds will sometimes fall off to 0, it should be reworked to last longer and be given a balanced ICD instead so you can gain from things like condition duration and such.
If I was Anet, I would create 4 sliders for the ranger.
1. Power
2. Precision
3. Health
4. Toughness
The value of all four sliders always total to 100%
E.g, The ranger can choose to have 10% power 10% precision 10% health and 70% toughness.
This would obviously be added once pets are fixed to deal constant damage regardless of enemy. I have always stood by the idea of making ranger into a sustain class. Pet’s should be able to die but they shouldn’t be able to be controlled (Cripple, Immob, Stun, Daze, Fear etc) and once they start their attack animation, they will 100% hit the enemy they started it on unless the enemy got like 500 units away or something.
I’ve gotten 15stacks of bleeding from 1 split blades so many times that i’m not really seeing the bad side of SE…
If you’re stacking 15 bleeds off a single Split Blade it is not from Sharpened Edges, and if it were, it would not be upon a single target. Getting all five attacks to be critical hits, and all five to proc Sharpened Edges and getting a single stack from Sigil of Earth (remember it has a two-second icd) would only add up to 11 stacks on your target.
If you meant to say you can hit three people clustered together with all five piercing projectiles to get 15 stacks, then yes, it is achievable, and Sharpened Edges did nothing to help reach it, but it is not putting heavy condition pressure on your desired target.
If you meant to say stacking sufficient condition duration increase allows you to keep up five stacks of bleeding beyond the 6 second cool down of Split Blade, then Sharpened Edges still only increases it beyond 11 (13 if lucky) stacks, 5 from Split Blade, 1-3 from Sigil of Earth, 5 from the second Split Blade. Sure, now it can reach 15 stacks, but it only proc’d twice, and they only ticked once.
The only possible way to reach 15 stacks (and maintain it) via Split Blade, Sharpened Edges and Sigil of Earth is to invest into condition and bleed duration boosts to increase it to 100%. Again, it is not Sharpened Edges that is allowing you to reach these points.
And finally, if you’re really, really trying to get the most of out Sharpened Edges, use the Warhorn. Fury to increase proc rate and Hunter’s Call that doesn’t require channeling that allows you to continue using the Axe while hitting your target multiple times.
The nice thing about sharpened edges is that it doesn’t have an ICD so it actually can stack up a few times but even so the ridiculously short duration still makes it terrible and even on the highest of critchance the bleeds will sometimes fall off to 0, it should be reworked to last longer and be given a balanced ICD instead so you can gain from things like condition duration and such.
Second.
Make it work like Companion’s Might and I will love it.
Edit: clarified some points.
(edited by Lunchbox.9543)
Make it work like Companion’s Might and I will love it
With an icd yes, otherwise it would be way way way to powerful, 25bleedstack shortbow here we come :P
What are your guys thoughts?
TBH… I’m honestly getting really sick of these suggestions that marginalize the pets down to being a mascot or non-combat mini-pet at best. Especially these ones that keep demanding we do more damage universally compared to our pets. You know people will still complain nomatter what, right? Even 10% won’t be overlooked.
I think we just need a PvE skill split like we got in Gw1 that actually lets us use or atleast benefit from our Pets all the time in PvE. And it has to be something that stacks, and is based on combat conditions (read: Player skill curve & pet choice). Not just blanket buffs to Ranger DPS that make Bears the only thing worth running, EVER. For example, How does your suggestion in any way bring Eagles & Cats back into PvE?
Can you answer that?
What are your guys thoughts?
TBH… I’m honestly getting really sick of these suggestions that marginalize the pets down to being a mascot or non-combat mini-pet at best. Especially these ones that keep demanding we do more damage universally compared to our pets. You know people will still complain nomatter what, right? Even 10% won’t be overlooked.
I think we just need a PvE skill split like we got in Gw1 that actually lets us use or atleast benefit from our Pets all the time in PvE. And it has to be something that stacks, and is based on combat conditions (read: Player skill curve & pet choice). Not just blanket buffs to Ranger DPS that make Bears the only thing worth running, EVER. For example, How does your suggestion in any way bring Eagles & Cats back into PvE?
Can you answer that?
I know after i made my post i read someone elses idea that made pets sustained damage not very high but pretty much backloaded everything on the F2 and made them a lot tanker, and tbh i liked their idea a lot more….
I can try to find it and place it somewhere in here…
I recently made a similar topic. Rangers are the only class that can be handicapped by their class mechanic. Ranger starts handicapped and the pet has to make up for it.
Power builds can never reach the potential of other classes because the pet is dead or unusable in many situations (some PVE boss battles and WvW walls).
Even if the pet is alive, your stats mean less than other classes, because your weaponskills do less damage regardless due to pet being a portion of damage… BUT your pet doesn’t scale with your stats!
This inherently means that power, condition damage, etc. is less valuable to a ranger than anyone else.
Actually, the only stats for rangers which are essentially, well, not very good, are Power/Precision/Crit damage, aka the meta stat build xD.
You could argue that now we have Companions Might that precision is super useful, which granted it is, but it’s only useful for procing effects, not the actual damage it increases. IE my DPS build (uses Rampagers) has a chance to proc 2 bleeds off of crit (sig of earth and Sharpened Edges) and then also grants my pets might on crit, so it’s pretty good still, kinda.
However if i were to go for a “Zerker” ranger it’s just terrible because my pet is a huge chunk of damage which never goes up unless i have points in BM, which we all know has a cap…
This makes no sense at all, you’ll gain the benefit of companion’s might just as much on a “berserker crit” as you would a “rampager crit” and the added crit damage on a berserker would outweigh sharpened edges by so much it’s not even funny so if that is the point you’re making it’s a strange one to make, maybe you have worded it in a way that I don’t understand you properly but that’s what it sounds like to me and it’s just about the worst argument ever atleast that particular example.
Well if you’re using Rampager gear you’re using condition damage… The only sort of damage we have that is on par with everyone else (because our scaling doesn’t suck), where if i used Zerker our damage doesn’t scale as well.
Is SE my whole source of damage? kitten no, it’s just sprinkles on the top, most of my damage comes from the other sources of bleeding, burning, and poison i have, i was just saying crit isn’t -that- bad for us because we can use it to proc things, like everyone else, and the things we proc with it aren’t screwed over by our kittenty power scaling.
Yeah of course sharpened edges isn’t your whole damage but it was 1 of the examples you listed why crit would be good for rampager because of the proc effects and then you went to say that it’s terrible on berserker like that wouldn’t benefit from the same procs? when in reality berserker benefits from the actual crit itself in pure damage plus it has proc effects ontop of that, if anything it’s alot better and more valuable to have crit on berserker than rampager, although a crit is never bad as opposed to a noncrit of course.
What i’m saying is that a crit that is proccing something else (like a condition or another effect) is A LOT more useful FOR A RANGER than a normal damage crit because our direct damage, for the most part, is kitten due to it not scaling very well with any of our skills (compared to other profs). This makes condi damage better than raw damage for us because we still get full benefit.
@Lunchbox, yeah my bad, 11 is the highest i can get by myself, i looked at the screenshot i took of it and i saw in the bachground my devourer shooting at it because he wasn’t on passive, so it probably procced bleeding about when i split bladed him and thought it was all from me (pets normally on passive).
I recently made a similar topic. Rangers are the only class that can be handicapped by their class mechanic. Ranger starts handicapped and the pet has to make up for it.
Power builds can never reach the potential of other classes because the pet is dead or unusable in many situations (some PVE boss battles and WvW walls).
Even if the pet is alive, your stats mean less than other classes, because your weaponskills do less damage regardless due to pet being a portion of damage… BUT your pet doesn’t scale with your stats!
This inherently means that power, condition damage, etc. is less valuable to a ranger than anyone else.
Actually, the only stats for rangers which are essentially, well, not very good, are Power/Precision/Crit damage, aka the meta stat build xD.
You could argue that now we have Companions Might that precision is super useful, which granted it is, but it’s only useful for procing effects, not the actual damage it increases. IE my DPS build (uses Rampagers) has a chance to proc 2 bleeds off of crit (sig of earth and Sharpened Edges) and then also grants my pets might on crit, so it’s pretty good still, kinda.
However if i were to go for a “Zerker” ranger it’s just terrible because my pet is a huge chunk of damage which never goes up unless i have points in BM, which we all know has a cap…
This makes no sense at all, you’ll gain the benefit of companion’s might just as much on a “berserker crit” as you would a “rampager crit” and the added crit damage on a berserker would outweigh sharpened edges by so much it’s not even funny so if that is the point you’re making it’s a strange one to make, maybe you have worded it in a way that I don’t understand you properly but that’s what it sounds like to me and it’s just about the worst argument ever atleast that particular example.
Well if you’re using Rampager gear you’re using condition damage… The only sort of damage we have that is on par with everyone else (because our scaling doesn’t suck), where if i used Zerker our damage doesn’t scale as well.
Is SE my whole source of damage? kitten no, it’s just sprinkles on the top, most of my damage comes from the other sources of bleeding, burning, and poison i have, i was just saying crit isn’t -that- bad for us because we can use it to proc things, like everyone else, and the things we proc with it aren’t screwed over by our kittenty power scaling.
Yeah of course sharpened edges isn’t your whole damage but it was 1 of the examples you listed why crit would be good for rampager because of the proc effects and then you went to say that it’s terrible on berserker like that wouldn’t benefit from the same procs? when in reality berserker benefits from the actual crit itself in pure damage plus it has proc effects ontop of that, if anything it’s alot better and more valuable to have crit on berserker than rampager, although a crit is never bad as opposed to a noncrit of course.
What i’m saying is that a crit that is proccing something else (like a condition or another effect) is A LOT more useful FOR A RANGER than a normal damage crit because our direct damage, for the most part, is kitten due to it not scaling very well with any of our skills (compared to other profs). This makes condi damage better than raw damage for us because we still get full benefit.
I’m not saying we scale just as well as some other classes with direct damage I do not agree however that across the board having a condition proc is “A LOT” more useful, because despite the lesser scaling we might have Berserker does a ton more damage than conditions when the crit damage is stacked up even for rangers, just one example wich may be abit extreme but there is a video on the first page here with a ranger doing 10k crits on longbow autoattack, please tell how any amount of condition procs will ever come close to that? not even if you pretend that you have 25bleedstacks, burning and poison permanently on your own with the most extreme condition damage would you come close.
I’m not saying conditions are bad either they are really strong for us but you’re just downplaying Berserker and direct damage for rangers by way too much.
Well i completely take back my views on the power stuff after watching a video of a ranger critting people for over 9k with the bloody longbow….
Well i completely take back my views on the power stuff after watching a video of a ranger critting people for over 9k with the bloody longbow….
I’m not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but to clarify it’s not just on upscaled level 1s in wvw he has a video in fractals of the mists doing it aswell, my point is that saying berserker crits for rangers are terrible is flat out wrong regardless if we scale as well as other classes or not.
Well i completely take back my views on the power stuff after watching a video of a ranger critting people for over 9k with the bloody longbow….
I’m not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but to clarify it’s not just on upscaled level 1s in wvw he has a video in fractals of the mists doing it aswell, my point is that saying berserker crits for rangers are terrible is flat out wrong regardless if we scale as well as other classes or not.
Uh…. Most the people he fights ARE NOT upleveled….
IMO all we need to shift the dps split more towards the ranger is a new category of pet that does low base damage, say on par with bears, but buffs the ranger some (eg one or two stacks of might) on its family skills. Clean and simple option for transferring some of the pet’s dps to the ranger without affecting the current balance.
Well i completely take back my views on the power stuff after watching a video of a ranger critting people for over 9k with the bloody longbow….
I’m not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but to clarify it’s not just on upscaled level 1s in wvw he has a video in fractals of the mists doing it aswell, my point is that saying berserker crits for rangers are terrible is flat out wrong regardless if we scale as well as other classes or not.
Uh…. Most the people he fights ARE NOT upleveled….
That’s what I said…
In my opinion, we simply need more control to unleash pet’s full effectiveness. This might increase class complexity a bit, but is required if we ever want to be a truly viable class focusing on a pet as our profession mechanic. Here’s few (most likely already mentioned) changes to current pet controls.
More dramatic alternative would be to get rid of Pet Swap mechanism and make Pet Stance F4, but that would require a complete overhaul to current system.
Well i completely take back my views on the power stuff after watching a video of a ranger critting people for over 9k with the bloody longbow….
I’m not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but to clarify it’s not just on upscaled level 1s in wvw he has a video in fractals of the mists doing it aswell, my point is that saying berserker crits for rangers are terrible is flat out wrong regardless if we scale as well as other classes or not.
Uh…. Most the people he fights ARE NOT upleveled….
That’s what I said…
I apparently can’t read lol, my bad.
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