Guild Wars 2

Hello there, Timmy!

Do you like playing WvW? Do your friends and random zerg tease you, because you’re playing a Ranger? Would you like to think that you can make a difference too? Well, it’s time to take a stand, Timmy! Because now you too can get:

It’s A Trap!

The future Ranger meta build, straight from the laboratories of the greatest scientists of Tyria (mostly asura, though)! It’s the build that your allies never knew, they always wanted! Capable of trapping even then most stability stacked bully, no one can escape the clutches of ’It’s A Trap!‘. However, the build needs your help to succeed, Timmy. Because a build can’t make a difference, if you don’t put in the effort. “But why should I spend my hard earned silver coins on buying completely new gear” you say? Well Timmy, you don’t have to! Because ‘This Is A Trap!’ is a template, that can easily be added to your already existing and awesome build! Yes, you read that correctly, Timmy. With a quick visit to your nearest trainer, and expert cook, you too will be ready to show those bullies, what it really means to be a Ranger. So stack those traps today, and make a difference in a mist near you!

Might cause spontaneous combustion if mixed with elixir compound Az153-B.
Canines not included.

Not sure if this is a joke or you are trying to be serious…

My money is on the first option^^

Been there, Done that.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Build-WvW-Chill-Crowd-Control-Build/first#post1981136

Cufufalating.8479:

Not sure if this is a joke or you are trying to be serious…

My money is on the first option^^

Both, actually. If I made a serious topic, not everyone would read it. The build works very well.

Gorath.5076:

Been there, Done that.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Build-WvW-Chill-Crowd-Control-Build/first#post1981136

This is a template, meaning you only have to change your utility skills, traits, and add Rare Veggie Pizza. It’s practically free, unlike changing your whole build.

and I am afraid it is a template that does not work.
I ve played it in GvG and normal WvW. The Pets just fall out, I wont go and give out about how bad the pet mechanic is But the result is, eventhough they might have amazing F2 Chill abilites, you cant get them off. thats just the whole devestating truth of it. At least from what happened to me.
Plus: Traps are a pain in WvW. their activation radius is smaller than their actual effect, the chill field only stays for 2 seconds, even if traited. AND: what I found was the biggest problem: If you focus on just one condition, you will easily get caught up in Condi remove. you will burn all your chill to apply up to 16 seconds of chill and then a warrior/Guardian/Elementalist uses an AoE condi cleanse and its gone and you cannot reapply it for about a minute …
I dont know how the game has changed since I tried that build in spring but back then it was a nice idea that didnt work.

EDIT: Another Problem:

• You spent 30 points and use a Master and Grandmaster trait for only 1 Utility skill.
• You lack damage mitigation abilities (protect me or traited Signet of Stone) and Stability.
  The traps only have a 600 Range, so you will have to be uncomfortably close to the melee train in order to throw them. And even with full soldiers gear (28k Life and 2.3k thoughness) you will need those mitigation abilities+ stability in order to not be eaten by it.
• I for now ceased to trust Guardians when it comes to stability. We run with at least 5 of them and I seldomly get any … so I have to take care of it myself. But maybe thats going to change mid Octobre, if they acually implement that Boons are goind to prioritize group members.

Gorath.5076:

and I am afraid it is a template that does not work.
I ve played it in GvG and normal WvW. The Pets just fall out, I wont go and give out about how bad the pet mechanic is But the result is, eventhough they might have amazing F2 Chill abilites, you cant get them off. thats just the whole devestating truth of it. At least from what happened to me.
Plus: Traps are a pain in WvW. their activation radius is smaller than their actual effect, the chill field only stays for 2 seconds, even if traited. AND: what I found was the biggest problem: If you focus on just one condition, you will easily get caught up in Condi remove. you will burn all your chill to apply up to 16 seconds of chill and then a warrior/Guardian/Elementalist uses an AoE condi cleanse and its gone and you cannot reapply it for about a minute …
I dont know how the game has changed since I tried that build in spring but back then it was a nice idea that didnt work.

Please reserve your final judgement until you actually try the build. I’ve tried it, I could see that it worked. You’ve just seen the build, and you’re already theory crafting that it won’t work.

Pets die, yes. But if you keep the pet on passive at all times, you know that it will stay near you, and that the F2 skills will work near you. But your utility snares only have recharge times of 20 and 24 seconds, which allows you to use them several times during a fight, in between using the pet F2 skills every 20 and 30 seconds. If the pet dies, after it has gotten it’s F2 ability off, it will still have done its job, since the point of the build is not to deal damage first, but to disrupt your foes so your allies can maximise their damage.

The Frost Trap duration is 5 seconds, and each tick adds 2.5 seconds of chill, meaning if your opponent stays in the field for just 2 seconds, they will have 5 seconds of chill on them. And it’s even more effective when you stack your snare skills. I’m not focusing on just one condition either. The build has immobilize, chill, and cripple. Plus single target knock down, if you count the canine attacks.

If your opponents uses condition removal, before the fight has even begun, you and your allies already have a clear advantage. Because it means they won’t have condition removal for all the condition damage they’ll get on them a few seconds later. And as mentioned above, your skills recharge very fast, so you can repetitively root your foes in place.

EDIT: Another Problem:

• You spent 30 points and use a Master and Grandmaster trait for only 1 Utility skill.
• You lack damage mitigation abilities (protect me or traited Signet of Stone) and Stability.
  The traps only have a 600 Range, so you will have to be uncomfortably close to the melee train in order to throw them. And even with full soldiers gear (28k Life and 2.3k thoughness) you will need those mitigation abilities+ stability in order to not be eaten by it.
• I for now ceased to trust Guardians when it comes to stability. We run with at least 5 of them and I seldomly get any … so I have to take care of it myself. But maybe thats going to change mid Octobre, if they acually implement that Boons are goind to prioritize group members.

• Again, the point of the build is to snare your opponent, so of curse you need to pick the traits that makes you more effective at that. Ground targeting means you won’t have to get too close to your foes, and you’ll want to survive so you can keep stacking those snare skills. It’s exactly the same as when building a bunker build; you sacrifice most of your damage, to maximise your durability.
• When I actually played the build, I found out that you don’t really need damage mitigation, because the snare skills gives you all the damage mitigation you need. If foes can’t get near you, they can’t damage you.
• Yes, you have to get close to the enemy zerg. But the point is that they can’t instantly get close to you, because you just snared most of their frontline attackers. This leaves you with more then enough time to get out of attack range again. And as Ranger, you have plenty of dodges.

Kasama.8941:

Please reserve your final judgement until you actually try the build. I’ve tried it, I could see that it worked. You’ve just seen the build, and you’re already theory crafting that it won’t work.

Sorry,
I get worked up about this Build because I have spent hours discussing it in my guild and testing it in wvw.
why I am so harsh is, If you look at the link I posted: I posted a build using this very template 4 month ago and used it for quite some time without much success.
But I’d love to see people giving this a shot again!

Thats the full build around this template that I ended up running:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBhOD7koisgzrwxCULDErCAq9ITcCTsH83RP6kbNpWA-jkyAoLBZCUgIDwZvioxWCjWBNIl4wqXw0lER1e8ioVLFwiKjA-w

You can use the full set of either of the runes instead, I ended up wioth full Rune of Ice, for more sources of Chill.

Gorath.5076:

Kasama.8941:

Please reserve your final judgement until you actually try the build. I’ve tried it, I could see that it worked. You’ve just seen the build, and you’re already theory crafting that it won’t work.

Sorry,
I get worked up about this Build because I have spent hours discussing it in my guild and testing it in wvw.
why I am so harsh is, If you look at the link I posted: I posted a build using this very template 4 month ago and used it for quite some time without much success.
But I’d love to see people giving this a shot again!

No reason to be sorry, I was simply just pointing it out. It’s easy to theory craft, but once you play a build, all your theory crafting can mean nothing in the end. And this build template is easy and cheap to add to your existing build.

That’s partly why I made this topic. Like with Guardians or stun Warriors, the more you have in a group, the more you can see the difference that they make. I am very confident that trap Rangers can make a big difference, because I can see the difference I can make to an enemy group, on my own.

Thats the full build around this template that I ended up running:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBhOD7koisgzrwxCULDErCAq9ITcCTsH83RP6kbNpWA-jkyAoLBZCUgIDwZvioxWCjWBNIl4wqXw0lER1e8ioVLFwiKjA-w

You can use the full set of either of the runes instead, I ended up wioth full Rune of Ice, for more sources of Chill.

I simply just added the template on top of my existing build. So I went from this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQJATRjAVB29VOWo2Bi1DAFo+0Ukp+zUcIGlxKT8qC-jEDBYLBioAgEBK7pIasVQFRjVbDT5CQ7Ky6XJ1gDwcWRzgO1yAwsAA-w

To this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQJATRjAVB25VOWo2BiVBA1ekJOhJ2D+7oHlxGT8qC-jEDBYLBioAgEBK7pIasVQFRjVbDT5CQ7Ky6XJ1gDwcWRzgO1CBsYBA-w

And I can easily change back to my original build again.

Little late to the party, aren’t you? I’ve been running this build since Day 1 of having played my Ranger (meaning since November 14th 2012), and it’s how I’ve survived all modes of play. Though there are a few places where the traps are useless…namely the world bosses that don’t move.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Little late to the party, aren’t you? I’ve been running this build since Day 1 of having played my Ranger (meaning since November 14th 2012), and it’s how I’ve survived all modes of play. Though there are a few places where the traps are useless…namely the world bosses that don’t move.

Good, I hope you keep playing it. The problem is, not a lot of other players actually believe that this kind of build is effective. So feel free to share your build and your success stories.

Lol @ people picking on OP

The main role of said build in group play IMO is not only to keep conditions up on the enemy using the traps so there’s a steady DoT going, but to support the party with said traps (and using blast finishers from warhorn) and Healing Spring. We’re also the backup tanks, being able to dodge and survive pretty well (as all Rangers should) due to the huge toughness. The build is dependent on the conditions and surviving the enemy, so Dire equipment helps really well with this. For extra oomph on survival, pull in Superior Runes of the Dolyak to give you not only more toughness and vitality, but a passive HP regen that stacks with Regen, Signet of the Wild, Troll Ungent, and Healing Mist.

Weapon-wise, off-hand Warhorn is mandatory for the group support. Mainhand to go with it can be Axe (really useful to help with crowd control) or the Sword (for that DPS). Secondary weapon set I suggest being either SB/LB (if you have Sword for mainhand) or GS (if axe for mainhand). This way you’ll still have both long-range and close-range covered, and won’t have to worry about that pesky reflection some enemies and players love using.

For traits, Marksmanship’s is dependent on what you’re going on for any specific occasion, so there’s no wrong answer there.

Don’t change Skirmishing’s from that #4, 8 11 setup unless you’re going to be fighting something that traps won’t work on. In that case, change #8 to #9 or #10 depending on which weapons you’re running, and #11 to #12. Again, this is ONLY if you’re going to be fighting a stationary boss like Jormag, Shatterer, Shadow Behemoth, etc.

Wilderness Survival, my trait setup is different than that one, since I tend to run with Healing Spring. I run with traits #4 to give vigor to myself and allies with Healing Spring, #7 to help Warhorn get off its moves faster, and #12 to help tank. In WvW however, you probably will be wanting #11 on to help deal with conditions. Just make sure you’re paying attention to your pet so it doesn’t die.

This is the closest traitline point setup to a ‘Jack of All Trades’ that I’ve been able to see or come up with. You can run the stat boosts from these traitlines with pretty much any skill setup and it’ll turn out well, but it’s especially true for the conditions.

I ran a trolly chill build for duels, it was good fun and very irritating, but it didn’t really work too well outside of that.

Why not viper’s nest instead of muddy terrain? Lot’s of players in wvw rely on healing while zerging. I guess it depends who/what you’re fighting and who/what your allies are.

Chopps.5047:

Why not viper’s nest instead of muddy terrain? Lot’s of players in wvw rely on healing while zerging. I guess it depends who/what you’re fighting and who/what your allies are.

Ahh, that’s another thing that was different for me, the skills.

I usually run with Healing Spring (of course), Flame Trap, Spike Trap/Viper’s Nest, and Frost Trap. Elite is usually either Entangle (for dealing with those pesky turrets on the walls) or Rampage as One (tower defense~).

It’s a viable build but not optimal. Since your question was in essence the new WvW meta build? The answer to that would be no.

Also you constantly slammed gorath for never trying the build but he clearly stated in his first sentence that he has played it. All of his points are not only valid but from experience playing the spec. I had the same results.

Conditions are OP because they can be spammed at a rate faster than it can be cleansed. That is NOT the case for frost it can be kept off pretty easily making this build super weak. This build crushes mesmers though since they don’t usually run condition cleanse.

months ago i ran a build dedicated to aoe CC. issue is it’s all SOFT CC. none of it actually disables the target so the effect is rather underwhelming.

Well I think soft cc also has it’s niche in the current melee train meta, mistsim.
The backline (staff ele, mesmers, necros) only survive due to their ability to dodge that mass of wildly swinging barbarians (melee train often reminds me of those Asterix comics …).
Root, cripple and chill them and they might get caught. And a root is actually pretty good for that, since it lasts longer than e.g. a hammer stun.

with -65% condi duration on all frontliners, or 3 condis cleared PER shout by guards (soldier runes), im afraid immobilize/chill/cripple bombs are virtually shrugged off. even the best condi stacking necro specs arent really viable for taking down guard-heavy melee trains. im afraid the ranger cant teach the necro anything.

if timed well, MT + entangle can secure a couple of kills, but thats pretty much all we have to offer (and water field).

mistsim.2748:

months ago i ran a build dedicated to aoe CC. issue is it’s all SOFT CC. none of it actually disables the target so the effect is rather underwhelming.

I read a lot of people saying this, but it just doesn’t fall in line with my experience. I can see why someone would think that this doesn’t make a lot of difference, because in a combat situation, the effects are quickly removed on the first contact. But the point of a build like this, is that the skills have such a short recharge time, they allow you to keep reapplying those snare skills. With the pets, you have five sources of snare skills, each with 20 to 30 seconds recharge times. And if you add Spike Trap and Barrage on top, you get seven sources of crowd control. This is what makes the Ranger so strong, compared to other professions. It’s the same principle as stealth. A stealth skill alone seems weak, but once you chain several stealth skills together, it becomes very strong.

You can also debate the fact that the so called “strong CC”, isn’t really that strong, considering most players in a zerg has stability on. Or that the stun only lasts 2 seconds. Or that the recharge times on these stun skills have long recharge times.

well i ran various ranger builds on and off for months in a top tier gvz/gvg guild. there is a reason i kept going back to my guard and necro. guard could give perma boons and heals, necro could output about 20k aoe dmg in seconds. i am not sure what kind of experiences you’ve had, but obviously theyre not in line with mine. you and chopps keep shoving traps down our throats but they really dont do ENOUGH outside of small skirms.

large zerg encounters used to be all about earth shaker stuns until people started running perma stable guard and necro trains. if anyone cares, the meta currently is stability, massive condi clears, and power wellmancers. has been for a while. in gvg, glass builds have a role in backline pressure, and this is where the ranger could contribute. but you cant bring JUST traps without survivability and dps.

so yeah i could roll my ranger and spam a few aoe chill and immobilize, but im doing pitiful damage. damage and well-timed hard cc is what downs people. MT and Entangle combined with Path of Scars and Point Blank Shot bring a ton of hard and soft CC to the table. the 1 second of immob from spike and a second or two of chill from frost (if people dont roll throught it) are insignificant.

the best experience ive had was with a hybrid PVT or sentinel build (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Sentinel-Frontliner-Next-Level-WvW-Ranger/first#post2714708), more specifically the dps version of the build. it brings CC, damage AND survivability to the table. Godspeed from Red Guard ran a very similar build, but mine is better.

PS if you look in my earlier vid at the 10:30 mark (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7uWpEfrhKE) i demonstrate an effective trap bombing build thats kind of tanky. mostly apothecary gear. id make a lot of changes to it now, but it just doesnt belong in the current meta where skirmishers hit very hard and evade as much as they want (thieves, gs/mace/shield warriors, mesmers, condi engies), or just run in trains (guard, necro).

Here’s my take on the chill build, which I’ve been having fun with in PvE and WvW. I set it up a little different, went 30/20/20 to get the most out of all condition duration and retain some toughness. This is the first time I’ve tried Remorseless but that guaranteed crit is nice to try to proc the Ice sigil more. (Plus with fury, I have decent crit chance.) LB gives stealth for Remorseless and PBS gives knockdown; axe has its own chill on decent cooldown; horn to blast the trap once it’s set off for frost aura on top of fury/might/swiftness - winning combo if you ask me. Drake and wolf helping bring in more sources of chill, but I could see myself switching one to a spider down the road... I am rocking the Traveler runes and I will never look back - they are fantastic! Would swap RaO for Entangle if I am getting stability from the group (which I rarely ever count on getting).

Please let me know what you think!
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMUQNBjODbkoqyOvyvC1OQseAo+8nmiJZemCD5oD2NzB-j0DBocRGVEAbJZ0FCaEIJO5LQJQLjtMsIasqao6aYKXBR7CSFD2aWZ1gWQWKAYmAA-w

mistsim.2748:

well i ran various ranger builds on and off for months in a top tier gvz/gvg guild. there is a reason i kept going back to my guard and necro. guard could give perma boons and heals, necro could output about 20k aoe dmg in seconds. i am not sure what kind of experiences you’ve had, but obviously theyre not in line with mine. you and chopps keep shoving traps down our throats but they really dont do ENOUGH outside of small skirms.

large zerg encounters used to be all about earth shaker stuns until people started running perma stable guard and necro trains. if anyone cares, the meta currently is stability, massive condi clears, and power wellmancers. has been for a while. in gvg, glass builds have a role in backline pressure, and this is where the ranger could contribute. but you cant bring JUST traps without survivability and dps.

so yeah i could roll my ranger and spam a few aoe chill and immobilize, but im doing pitiful damage. damage and well-timed hard cc is what downs people. MT and Entangle combined with Path of Scars and Point Blank Shot bring a ton of hard and soft CC to the table. the 1 second of immob from spike and a second or two of chill from frost (if people dont roll throught it) are insignificant.

the best experience ive had was with a hybrid PVT or sentinel build (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Sentinel-Frontliner-Next-Level-WvW-Ranger/first#post2714708), more specifically the dps version of the build. it brings CC, damage AND survivability to the table. Godspeed from Red Guard ran a very similar build, but mine is better.

PS if you look in my earlier vid at the 10:30 mark (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7uWpEfrhKE) i demonstrate an effective trap bombing build thats kind of tanky. mostly apothecary gear. id make a lot of changes to it now, but it just doesnt belong in the current meta where skirmishers hit very hard and evade as much as they want (thieves, gs/mace/shield warriors, mesmers, condi engies), or just run in trains (guard, necro).

Guardian and necro and warrior and thief are so OP in wvw that it really, really bothers me. I’m starting to enter “burnfall mode”. Someone talk me off the ledge, please.

I enjoyed the lighthearted tone of your thread.

But yeah, necros can do “traps” better.

Chopps.5047:

Guardian and necro and warrior and thief are so OP in wvw that it really, really bothers me. I’m starting to enter “burnfall mode”. Someone talk me off the ledge, please.

Chopps, don’t do it! Think of the children! Really, though, as one of the players who reads way more than he posts, I appreciate the rangers who post well-thought-out critiques of the game, builds, etc. It may be a year into the game but rangers are going to find our place… I just know it. Now come down before you hurt yourself.

Being a trap ranger is…a lot harder than it should be. I am running a build heavy on beastmaster with the other half being traps and honestly, I cannot kill jack.

The pet does not track nearly well enough to be helpful, that is, the only use I found with a pet is running dual canine and getting the knockdown on swap. After that initial knockdown they really do not do anything of use. Especially the F2, no matter what you do, that channel is way, way, way too slow. By time the wolf starts the howl, the enemy is out of range.

Really though, I see your passion about it, because on paper it seems awesome. With the build I run I have access to burn, bleed, cripple, immobilize, stun, fear, chill, poison, and blind (when running a raven). Problem is, you either do not get the chance to use half of those, and when you do, the enemy has a way to either clear it or absorb it.

That’s why I agree with the ‘soft condition’ people. Sure, you have access to something like poison, but it is on a fan skill (fan is utterly pointless), and is so short no one bothers to care. The attack itself also does pitiful damage, so you cannot hope to get someone’s HP down enough.

It is honestly super frustrating playing WvW. You see people able to spam skills that outright block attacks, grant stability, invuln (mist form), mass stealth on demand, or illusions. What does the ranger really get? A half baked stealth mechanic and an ‘OP’ underwater rez skill. Seriously?

I want my traps to be able to be thrown farther. I want my shortbow range to be reinstated to what it formerly was. I want my pet to HIT SOMETHING.

Chopps.5047:

Guardian and necro and warrior and thief are so OP in wvw that it really, really bothers me. I’m starting to enter “burnfall mode”. Someone talk me off the ledge, please.

bro we’re pretty good snipers at least =) 3.4k autoattack any thief or mesmer to death, any day from 1500 =)

mistsim.2748:

well i ran various ranger builds on and off for months in a top tier gvz/gvg guild. there is a reason i kept going back to my guard and necro. guard could give perma boons and heals, necro could output about 20k aoe dmg in seconds. i am not sure what kind of experiences you’ve had, but obviously theyre not in line with mine. you and chopps keep shoving traps down our throats but they really dont do ENOUGH outside of small skirms.

large zerg encounters used to be all about earth shaker stuns until people started running perma stable guard and necro trains. if anyone cares, the meta currently is stability, massive condi clears, and power wellmancers. has been for a while. in gvg, glass builds have a role in backline pressure, and this is where the ranger could contribute. but you cant bring JUST traps without survivability and dps.

so yeah i could roll my ranger and spam a few aoe chill and immobilize, but im doing pitiful damage. damage and well-timed hard cc is what downs people. MT and Entangle combined with Path of Scars and Point Blank Shot bring a ton of hard and soft CC to the table. the 1 second of immob from spike and a second or two of chill from frost (if people dont roll throught it) are insignificant.

the best experience ive had was with a hybrid PVT or sentinel build (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Sentinel-Frontliner-Next-Level-WvW-Ranger/first#post2714708), more specifically the dps version of the build. it brings CC, damage AND survivability to the table. Godspeed from Red Guard ran a very similar build, but mine is better.

PS if you look in my earlier vid at the 10:30 mark (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7uWpEfrhKE) i demonstrate an effective trap bombing build thats kind of tanky. mostly apothecary gear. id make a lot of changes to it now, but it just doesnt belong in the current meta where skirmishers hit very hard and evade as much as they want (thieves, gs/mace/shield warriors, mesmers, condi engies), or just run in trains (guard, necro).

You’re talking like there’s a player restriction, when the fact is that you can run as many players as you want in WvW. This Ranger snare build doesn’t pretend to do boon support better then a Guardian, or condition damage better then a Necromancer does, so I’m not sure what value that comparison has? I’m not sure what “enough” is to you, either. The only point should be whether or not a build makes a difference, not how it compares to other builds. If we are talking sPvP, where the maximum players in a group is five, it’s a different story. But WvW doesn’t have this downside.

Are you reading what you are writing? People run with more stability, so stuns have less of an impact, which is exactly why people started running wells/staff Necromancers instead. But the Ranger can’t contribute to this, even though it does AoE crowd control even better then the Necromancer? I don’t understand that..

It doesn’t matter if you deal lower damage, because you have 20+ other players that can do that. But I have to mention that when I change my build to ’It’s A Trap!‘, I only lose 200 power, and that’s it. Changing your traits doesn’t have a very big effect on your total stats, because the majority of your stats comes from your armor, trinkets, weapons, and runes. But anyway, the point of a build like this, is to maximise AoE damage, exhaust your enemies condition removal, and disrupt the enemy zerg by slowing foes down. It’s really more of a damage support build, then anything ells, because you help your allies deal more AoE damage, and help them focus fire by singling out foes. You’re also undermining the duration possibilities here. In this build Frost Trap deals 2.5 second of chill per tick, and Muddy Terrain deals 2.5 seconds of immobilise, plus 3 seconds of cripple per tick. I don’t see how anyone can categorise that as being “soft”. Especially considering that this is just caused by one Ranger, imagine three Rangers doing this..

Your builds are nice, I’m sure, but neither of them does the same thing that ’It’s A Trap!’ does, because you don’t build around the control skills. In my regular build, I also run with Muddy Terrain, Entangle, and two canines, but that doesn’t make it a crowd control build, because it’s not build around crowd control, so the condition durations become way too short and the recharge times too long.

So you basically have a build that lets you support while 20+ other people actually do something? Ask yourself, if you remove the Ranger in that situation would those people be worse off? I think that answer is ‘no’.

If you want to play support in WvW just grab an arrow cart. With the poison / reveal on the leveled ones, you pretty much support your zerg the same. Upside is you don’t even need to care about your build at that point.

But alas, would you happen to have any videos of this working?

Gotejjeken.1267:

Being a trap ranger is…a lot harder than it should be. I am running a build heavy on beastmaster with the other half being traps and honestly, I cannot kill jack.

The pet does not track nearly well enough to be helpful, that is, the only use I found with a pet is running dual canine and getting the knockdown on swap. After that initial knockdown they really do not do anything of use. Especially the F2, no matter what you do, that channel is way, way, way too slow. By time the wolf starts the howl, the enemy is out of range.

Really though, I see your passion about it, because on paper it seems awesome. With the build I run I have access to burn, bleed, cripple, immobilize, stun, fear, chill, poison, and blind (when running a raven). Problem is, you either do not get the chance to use half of those, and when you do, the enemy has a way to either clear it or absorb it.

That’s why I agree with the ‘soft condition’ people. Sure, you have access to something like poison, but it is on a fan skill (fan is utterly pointless), and is so short no one bothers to care. The attack itself also does pitiful damage, so you cannot hope to get someone’s HP down enough.

It is honestly super frustrating playing WvW. You see people able to spam skills that outright block attacks, grant stability, invuln (mist form), mass stealth on demand, or illusions. What does the ranger really get? A half baked stealth mechanic and an ‘OP’ underwater rez skill. Seriously?

I want my traps to be able to be thrown farther. I want my shortbow range to be reinstated to what it formerly was. I want my pet to HIT SOMETHING.

I’m not sure why you can’t down foes, but yes, playing a Ranger in WvW is difficult.

You have to chain your attacks, and think one step ahead, to use the F2 abilities. You see a foe who has low health, you know that he will probably try to run away to reset, so you have to act on this before it happens; cast Muddy Terrain on him, or cripple him with a weapon skill, and then immediately press F2. Keep your canine on passive at all times, to make sure it stays near you, and just use F1 to attack foes that tries to take you down.

You do get to use the abilities, it’s simply just about prioritising your abilities. For example, Muddy Terrain has a range of 900, where a trap will only get a cast range of 600. This means Muddy Terrain is best to use first, as it gets you closer to your foe, where you’ll have a better chance of following up with the trap. Next you know that the trap will have a range of 600, but the canines only have a range of 500, plus they have a long activation time. So this means you should cast the trap before using the canine, to give yourself a better chance of hitting. And then you also have to factor in your weapons cripple, how long duration each skills has, and so forth. Doing this makes all the difference.

Again, the point here is not to deal damage. And building around the snare skills, is what makes all the difference. Dealing 2.5 second if chill every tick, is not soft. Neither is using Muddy Terrain and the F2 skill from Krytan Drakehound, to stack 6 seconds of immobilize.

The first step to making a difference, is taking a step forward. If you believe the Ranger has nothing to offer, then that’s how you’ll play it.

Gotejjeken.1267:

So you basically have a build that lets you support while 20+ other people actually do something? Ask yourself, if you remove the Ranger in that situation would those people be worse off? I think that answer is ‘no’.

If you want to play support in WvW just grab an arrow cart. With the poison / reveal on the leveled ones, you pretty much support your zerg the same. Upside is you don’t even need to care about your build at that point.

But alas, would you happen to have any videos of this working?

Your thinking in terms of the glass as being half empty. The question you should be asking is; if you add this build to a group, will it make a difference?

I think I have to start making videos at this point, because even though I’ve made a template build, that only costs a few silver to change to, people still don’t want to try it first, before they start accuse it of ‘not working’. But it seems whenever someone sees a gameplay video on this forum, they want to know the build immediately.

Actually, you got me thinking, Kasama.
When I get home I’ll try some things you proposed over your last few posts, e.g. the MT +drakehound combo. That might actually work. But that brings you back to chopps hydralisk CC bomber ..

Kasama.8941

you can run as many players as you want in WvW. The only point should be whether or not a build makes a difference, not how it compares to other builds.

even though it does AoE crowd control even better then the Necromancer? I don’t understand that..

I don’t see how anyone can categorise that as being “soft”. Especially considering that this is just caused by one Ranger, imagine three Rangers doing this..

Necros are more reliable sources of chill and cripple because they can spam scepter 2 and staff 3. Necros also have an aoe fear and immobilize on 30s cds. Unlike rangers, necros bring huge aoe dps. So in wvw, nobody will ask for a pack of rangers instead.

Soft cc is not a subjective thing. It means the affected player only loses control of character partially, as opposed to totally like with, fear kb or stun. The only soft cc that reliably secures kills is immobilize because it disables dodge rolling. This is why it’s important to use point blank shot and axe 4 when running a support/utility ranger. In addition to entangle and mt of course.

My issues with the build:
- no survivability
- no hard cc
- insignificant damage

If someone gets annoyed enough by the traps they’ll swat u like a fly. No invuln, no stability, no stun breaker. And you’re doing all your work from 600 range! Do I really have to keep arguing why this build only works in your head? This kind of build is what we call a free rally as it actually helps the enemy.

zerg busting works by:
- hard cc
- high sustain
- high aoe damage

Trap bombing has been around since beta really so this build isnt something that was missed by thousands of players. Zergs have also been around since release so there’s a reason this kind of build isnt part of any meta new or old. You’re gonna have to put up a vid demonstrating the build’s efficacy against a solid group of wvwers who know what theyre doing, and then we can discuss new meta.

Kasama.8941:

Gotejjeken.1267:

Being a trap ranger is…a lot harder than it should be. I am running a build heavy on beastmaster with the other half being traps and honestly, I cannot kill jack.

The pet does not track nearly well enough to be helpful, that is, the only use I found with a pet is running dual canine and getting the knockdown on swap. After that initial knockdown they really do not do anything of use. Especially the F2, no matter what you do, that channel is way, way, way too slow. By time the wolf starts the howl, the enemy is out of range.

Really though, I see your passion about it, because on paper it seems awesome. With the build I run I have access to burn, bleed, cripple, immobilize, stun, fear, chill, poison, and blind (when running a raven). Problem is, you either do not get the chance to use half of those, and when you do, the enemy has a way to either clear it or absorb it.

That’s why I agree with the ‘soft condition’ people. Sure, you have access to something like poison, but it is on a fan skill (fan is utterly pointless), and is so short no one bothers to care. The attack itself also does pitiful damage, so you cannot hope to get someone’s HP down enough.

It is honestly super frustrating playing WvW. You see people able to spam skills that outright block attacks, grant stability, invuln (mist form), mass stealth on demand, or illusions. What does the ranger really get? A half baked stealth mechanic and an ‘OP’ underwater rez skill. Seriously?

I want my traps to be able to be thrown farther. I want my shortbow range to be reinstated to what it formerly was. I want my pet to HIT SOMETHING.

I’m not sure why you can’t down foes, but yes, playing a Ranger in WvW is difficult.

You have to chain your attacks, and think one step ahead, to use the F2 abilities. You see a foe who has low health, you know that he will probably try to run away to reset, so you have to act on this before it happens; cast Muddy Terrain on him, or cripple him with a weapon skill, and then immediately press F2. Keep your canine on passive at all times, to make sure it stays near you, and just use F1 to attack foes that tries to take you down.

You do get to use the abilities, it’s simply just about prioritising your abilities. For example, Muddy Terrain has a range of 900, where a trap will only get a cast range of 600. This means Muddy Terrain is best to use first, as it gets you closer to your foe, where you’ll have a better chance of following up with the trap. Next you know that the trap will have a range of 600, but the canines only have a range of 500, plus they have a long activation time. So this means you should cast the trap before using the canine, to give yourself a better chance of hitting. And then you also have to factor in your weapons cripple, how long duration each skills has, and so forth. Doing this makes all the difference.

Again, the point here is not to deal damage. And building around the snare skills, is what makes all the difference. Dealing 2.5 second if chill every tick, is not soft. Neither is using Muddy Terrain and the F2 skill from Krytan Drakehound, to stack 6 seconds of immobilize.

The first step to making a difference, is taking a step forward. If you believe the Ranger has nothing to offer, then that’s how you’ll play it.

Gotejjeken.1267:

So you basically have a build that lets you support while 20+ other people actually do something? Ask yourself, if you remove the Ranger in that situation would those people be worse off? I think that answer is ‘no’.

If you want to play support in WvW just grab an arrow cart. With the poison / reveal on the leveled ones, you pretty much support your zerg the same. Upside is you don’t even need to care about your build at that point.

But alas, would you happen to have any videos of this working?

Your thinking in terms of the glass as being half empty. The question you should be asking is; if you add this build to a group, will it make a difference?

I think I have to start making videos at this point, because even though I’ve made a template build, that only costs a few silver to change to, people still don’t want to try it first, before they start accuse it of ‘not working’. But it seems whenever someone sees a gameplay video on this forum, they want to know the build immediately.

If I slot Muddy Terrain, I lose my stun-breaker. If I put the pet on passive all the time it becomes nothing more than a utility on my skill bar, and takes half my damage away. Also if I keep the pet by my side so I can use the F2, that means the enemy has to be close enough to me for it to work…as a Ranger I really do not want people in melee range.

mistsim.2748:

Kasama.8941

you can run as many players as you want in WvW. The only point should be whether or not a build makes a difference, not how it compares to other builds.

even though it does AoE crowd control even better then the Necromancer? I don’t understand that..

I don’t see how anyone can categorise that as being “soft”. Especially considering that this is just caused by one Ranger, imagine three Rangers doing this..

Necros are more reliable sources of chill and cripple because they can spam scepter 2 and staff 3. Necros also have an aoe fear and immobilize on 30s cds. Unlike rangers, necros bring huge aoe dps. So in wvw, nobody will ask for a pack of rangers instead.

Soft cc is not a subjective thing. It means the affected player only loses control of character partially, as opposed to totally like with, fear kb or stun. The only soft cc that reliably secures kills is immobilize because it disables dodge rolling. This is why it’s important to use point blank shot and axe 4 when running a support/utility ranger. In addition to entangle and mt of course.

My issues with the build:
- no survivability
- no hard cc
- insignificant damage

If someone gets annoyed enough by the traps they’ll swat u like a fly. No invuln, no stability, no stun breaker. And you’re doing all your work from 600 range! Do I really have to keep arguing why this build only works in your head? This kind of build is what we call a free rally as it actually helps the enemy.

zerg busting works by:
- hard cc
- high sustain
- high aoe damage

Trap bombing has been around since beta really so this build isnt something that was missed by thousands of players. Zergs have also been around since release so there’s a reason this kind of build isnt part of any meta new or old. You’re gonna have to put up a vid demonstrating the build’s efficacy against a solid group of wvwers who know what theyre doing, and then we can discuss new meta.

The Ranger can bring seven sources of AoE crowd control, so why would you want a Necromancer instead? Fear doesn’t work against stability either.

No it’s not a subject thing, it’s just completely underrated. You seriously think that 3 seconds of stun or fear is more valuable then 6 seconds of immobilize, chill, and cripple? Stun and fear doesn’t work against stability, and recharge times on these skills are longer, meaning they are only useful once or twice doing a fight. Immobilize, chill, and cripple ignores stability, force foes to use their condition removal, and it can be cast more then four times during a fight, meaning you can exhaust your opponent a lot more.

Your issues are easily countable:

• Once you snare the frontline, you have plenty of time to get away. There’s a reason why the build has plenty of dodge options, and +25% movement speed. How much toughness and health you have depends on your stats.
• The so called “soft” crowd control ignores stability, have longer duration then “hard” crowd control, and has shorter recharge times.
• This is just a template to put over your own build. As with toughness and health, damage totally depends on your own stats. The build I play (link a few posts above) still has 2162 power, 50% critical chance, and 69% critical damage.

Why do you assume that anyone could down the Ranger easily? Invulnerability is a bonus for a build, not a requirement. Stability can be gain from other players, but you honestly don’t really need it, unless you are slow to react. And the build already has a stun breaker trait. I know the build works in practice, because I’ve actually played it. Do I really need to keep arguing with you, when you don’t have any experience with this build?

I know how zerg bursting works, which is why I also know that the Ranger can fill a niche, that no other profession can do as well. You’re talking like a zerg loses something by having more crowd control.

Trap bombing is a completely different build from this. The point of this topic is making sure everyone takes part in demonstrating the build. I can’t change the meta on my own.

Gotejjeken.1267:

If I slot Muddy Terrain, I lose my stun-breaker. If I put the pet on passive all the time it becomes nothing more than a utility on my skill bar, and takes half my damage away. Also if I keep the pet by my side so I can use the F2, that means the enemy has to be close enough to me for it to work…as a Ranger I really do not want people in melee range.

You’re being a bit pessimistic here. You can gain a stun breaker from traits. The pet isn’t responsible for half of your damage, it’s really not that big a deal. I down players all the time while my pet is mostly on passive. The Ranger works great in melee range, thanks to a ton of dodging.