Guild Wars 2

Zenith.7301:

Doug.9628:

please edit your post to include the fact that if these notes are real, the SB received flat damage upgrades to compensate. The LB also received a lot of love. The sky is not falling

This is so stupid. All of the shortbow’s DPS is on the autoattack. You could increase the damage of the other abilities by 40% and it would still be a DPS loss over just using the autoattack.

What love did the longbow receive besides projectile speed? You’ll still be dead as soon as someone gets close to you.

I might be missing something, but as far as I can see in the notes, all that is changing with crossfire is its range. Crossfire doesn’t depend on its range to deal damage, so… why is it going to do less damage?

I do have a feeling it’s gonna be the same old story every month though. The elites (i.e. eles, guardians, warriors, mesmers) complain about some aspect or other of ranger being overpowered because they couldn’t stand it being the dark horse of the professions (i.e. the profession that, if played right, can decimate anyone). So naturally they run to Anet and talk smack about us because they should be the only ones with all the power, and of course Anet bend them over and wipe their arses for them.

Varani.9207:

On the other hand cluster bomb´s range on shortbow has been increased to 1200. Isn´t that skill strong enough already?

You have it backwards; the current range of cluster bomb is 1200, and they’re decreasing it to 900.

jcbroe.4329:

Bryzy.2719:

Jcbroe – your last sentence is the core of what is wrong with these updates. It seems that most players agree that pet damage, depending on build, is certainly at least 30% of a ranger’s output. Assuming these nerfs are true then Anet probably just made ranger the weakest profession in the game. They’re clearly paying little attention to the profession since they’ve just cut our total damage output by (assuming pet counts as at least 30%, and jaguar had its damage nerfed by half PLUS crit rate) at least 15%.

I know, that’s why I said it. BUT, that is only power based DPS. The pet really doesn’t account for much of, if any, of our condition based DPS.

I’ll just switch back to traps until somebody in the next SoTG complains our trap build is overpowered. At that point, I hope reality smacks ANet in the face; that maybe, they need to get some players on the SoTG that aren’t biased against rangers, because Traps are really going to be our last most viable option that haven’t been touched by a nerf yet, and if they nerf them without any improvements, then its like secretly admitting that they are trying to get rid of classes viability so that there are only 5 choices to pick from in PvP, and people don’t have to think anymore.

So yeah, normally I’m pretty easygoing until I focus my attention on those top players and the SoTGs, and then my allergies start acting up (I’m allergic to arrogance and BS).

START A PETITION TO GET BATTOUSAI ON SOTG!!!

I highly suspect that these patch notes are false…but just for the record, this is/would be the first change to ANY class (I play all of them) that I have really minded. I am totally against it.

jubskie.3152:

jcbroe.4329:

Bryzy.2719:

Jcbroe – your last sentence is the core of what is wrong with these updates. It seems that most players agree that pet damage, depending on build, is certainly at least 30% of a ranger’s output. Assuming these nerfs are true then Anet probably just made ranger the weakest profession in the game. They’re clearly paying little attention to the profession since they’ve just cut our total damage output by (assuming pet counts as at least 30%, and jaguar had its damage nerfed by half PLUS crit rate) at least 15%.

I know, that’s why I said it. BUT, that is only power based DPS. The pet really doesn’t account for much of, if any, of our condition based DPS.

I’ll just switch back to traps until somebody in the next SoTG complains our trap build is overpowered. At that point, I hope reality smacks ANet in the face; that maybe, they need to get some players on the SoTG that aren’t biased against rangers, because Traps are really going to be our last most viable option that haven’t been touched by a nerf yet, and if they nerf them without any improvements, then its like secretly admitting that they are trying to get rid of classes viability so that there are only 5 choices to pick from in PvP, and people don’t have to think anymore.

So yeah, normally I’m pretty easygoing until I focus my attention on those top players and the SoTGs, and then my allergies start acting up (I’m allergic to arrogance and BS).

START A PETITION TO GET BATTOUSAI ON SOTG!!!

+1

Definitely!
/signed lol
For real though, I would love to see Battosai on SOTGs.

As a matter of fact, with these “tournaments” coming up, I think top spots prize should also include being on the next SOTG. Since Guru hosts the SOTGs, maybe we should get in contact with Grouch about this

Bryzy.2719:

I do have a feeling it’s gonna be the same old story every month though. The elites (i.e. eles, guardians, warriors, mesmers) complain about some aspect or other of ranger being overpowered because they couldn’t stand it being the dark horse of the professions (i.e. the profession that, if played right, can decimate anyone). So naturally they run to Anet and talk smack about us because they should be the only ones with all the power, and of course Anet bend them over and wipe their arses for them.

Lets not forget that it’s pretty obvious at this point that the people in charge of balance don’t really play the class so they have no idea what they are doing even if they actually tried to do it right.

ShinraGuardian.8053:

Zenith.7301:

Doug.9628:

please edit your post to include the fact that if these notes are real, the SB received flat damage upgrades to compensate. The LB also received a lot of love. The sky is not falling

This is so stupid. All of the shortbow’s DPS is on the autoattack. You could increase the damage of the other abilities by 40% and it would still be a DPS loss over just using the autoattack.

What love did the longbow receive besides projectile speed? You’ll still be dead as soon as someone gets close to you.

I might be missing something, but as far as I can see in the notes, all that is changing with crossfire is its range. Crossfire doesn’t depend on its range to deal damage, so… why is it going to do less damage?

Because it means when you open a fight you have to wait longer to engage, and chasing people will be worse as they can get out of your range easier with a simple flash/shadowstep/blink.

And quite frankly to put this shortbow on the same range as thief, whose shortbow bounces on auto, has a far superior poison because it’s a combo field, has the best blaster and one of the best aoe in game, while having the best escape and can chain 4-5 evasions at a full initiative pool, is downright insulting.

Is everyone else looking at a different set of patch notes? Because the ones I saw say +14% damage to several of the SB skills. Maybe it’s too many nights watching Lord of the Rings, but I used the short bow from darn near melee range already. I figured that was kinda the point of skill 3…

It would be a good change, if it were true.
SB should be(as I see it) an utility wep, movement, cc, not the weapon of choice for the lazy people who sit back and auto-attack “pew pew wow ranger so easy pew pew”.

It’s Ok for me as I usually use my sb at short range, it is my kind of melee weapon. Actually, this change will be more a buff than a nerd for the use I made of it (+14% damage on 3 skills).
However, I’m more concerned about the drastic pet DPS reduction.

I already used LB far more than the SB as is. Given the changes to the LB, it makes it that much more viable. I also love the increased cripple duration on barrage. No retaliation does not kill me (not even close), and I run full glass cannon.

The only time I pulled out the SB is basically when enemies are right in my face or I intend to pop quickness to quickly mow down a downed player.

I think the changes to both weapons are good. It’ll teach people to use LB for what it’s intended for, as well as, the SB for what it’s intended for. The LB greatly out-damages the SB by a long shot but it’s not ideal for sPvP or small group fights. Medium to large group fights; if your not using the LB, your really doing your entire group a dis-service. The amount of people that can be taken out in mere seconds greatly trumps what the SB could ever do.

If enemies are getting too close to you, you aren’t paying attention. The changes I don’t like however are the nerfs to the pets. They already are next to useless as is, as they die far too quickly. The nerf in damage was just pointless.

Yeah, shortbow was kinda of my favorite weapon. I’ll still try to use it and see if it works. (Which I’m sure it’ll be fine in spvp and pve, it’s just going to hurt a lot in WvW)

Also, now that crossfire has been damage nerfed, can we apply conditions no matter where we hit them from? I don’t think that’s so unreasonable with the coming changes.

Fomby.4295:

Yeah, shortbow was kinda of my favorite weapon. I’ll still try to use it and see if it works. (Which I’m sure it’ll be fine in spvp and pve, it’s just going to hurt a lot in WvW)

Also, now that crossfire has been damage nerfed, can we apply conditions no matter where we hit them from? I don’t think that’s so unreasonable with the coming changes.

The damage is still the same, only the range got nerfed.

If these notes are correct, I’d say this is a pretty heavy relative nerf to rangers. The pet reduction is massive, with very little damage boost to the ranger so the overall effect is reduced damage.

I really don’t think rangers were doing too much damage…

Also, our trait changes seem lackluster—evasive purity should have been changed to remove torment.

And speaking of torment, successful rangers are highly mobile. Torment will be another threat given to two already high damage dealing classes and not, at least as far I could see in the notes, given to rangers.

Maybe these notes are not accurate. I sure hope not.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Zenith.7301:

You don’t make longbow more viable by making shortbow crappier.

Luckily they’re doing all of this:

Long Range Shot: Reduced the aftercast on this skill from .5 seconds to .25 seconds. Increased arrow speed by 15%
Rapid Fire: Reduced initial cast time by .4 seconds. Increased arrow speed by 15%
Point Blank Shot: Increased arrow speed by 15%
Barrage: Increased cripple duration by 50%.

What I would like to see barrage obey the laws of ballistics a little better. There should be no line of sight requirement when shooting arrows up in the air at the edge of wall of a keep. I mean the ballistics of shooting arrows from the ground to the top of wall should be the same from the top of the same wall to the ground. Having to stand on the very edge of the wall is for those who enjoy paying to have their armor fixed.

Why use SB now when Axe has same range, has multi target without having to trait piercing arrows and can be paired with something in the offhand?

Next time, to make SB more atractive, they will nerf Axe to 600 yards. -.-

Carnius Magius.8091:

What I would like to see barrage obey the laws of ballistics a little better.

Really? You want to never be able to fire it indoors/in a cave/under a tree/with any sort of obstruction over your head AND for it to be absolutely canceled by the target being under any similar sort of cover?

Yeah, I think I’ll stick with what we’ve got now, thanks.

Raven.9603:

http://pastebin.com/2rrFg9pS

take it with all the disclaimers that normally come from leaked notes. what made it notable is a lack of a trait, anywhere, that would restore the range. and even if there was such a trait, it might feel mandatory, would likely be placed on eagle eye, which is mutually exclusive for 20MM with piercing arrows.

too bad they didnt merge “unbound spirits” with something else.
However a buff to spirits AND longbow is great. it should improve our WvWvW support power by loads.

s/tPVP i am not so sure how these supposed changes would affect rangers, however i am quite confident that IF these notes are real, IF this is a upcoming patch, it will be a long step forward in terms of properly balancing the class.

oh and to all you people who moan about the range loss on SB. Well, lets face it, SB is awesome, but at 1200 range, it is worse then the current LB. Misses just as often, and hits for less.

Bryzy.2719:

I think the patch notes are real. Who would sit there for hours putting together such realistic sounding notes for EVERY class? If they wanted to cause mayhem they would have put in way bigger nerfs. We were already expecting massive pet nerfs from what the devs said themselves.

Those notes say there’s a guardian skill that gets a 500% buff. I find that unlikely.

Also i thought the jaguar 100% crit on stealth was a stealth mechanic, not a jaguar specific thing. Wouldn’t that change affect thieves too?
Like when they nerfed quickness it also affected our QZ? Ranger was not OP with or without QZ to warrant that nerf, so it was nerfed because it was a shared mechanic.

Why couldn’t they have increased LB to 1500 range and kept SB to 1200 range?

With this nerf, they have destroyed my Ranger in WvW…

Fortunately, I have all 8 characters classes, so my Ranger will retire until such time as a viable build comes out and I will play my thief and troll/grief as many zergs, players as possible. Basically, I will play exactly like Anet seem to want/force me to play…

Nike.2631:

Carnius Magius.8091:

What I would like to see barrage obey the laws of ballistics a little better.

Really? You want to never be able to fire it indoors/in a cave/under a tree/with any sort of obstruction over your head AND for it to be absolutely canceled by the target being under any similar sort of cover?

Yeah, I think I’ll stick with what we’ve got now, thanks.

So you totally ignored the rest of my post. That was the heart of my complaint.

Rangers are supposed to be the “range” class. This change is huge because it pigeon-holes any ranger that wants to outrange other classes into using the longbow. The longbow already has a 1,500 range (with trait) which makes it higher than shortbow. If you want people to use longbow over shortbow then buff the longbow, don’t nerf the shortbow. You even added a damage increase to the shortbow skills EXCEPT the main damage dealer, crossfire, which is like rubbing salt into the wounds.

Varani.9207:

On the other hand cluster bomb´s range on shortbow has been increased to 1200. Isn´t that skill strong enough already?

No, it is 1200 now and being reduced to 900. It’s a fine change, although I’m VERY annoyed the notes say nothing about an aftercast reduction or projectile speed increase for Trick Shot, which it badly needs.

Also, everyone is QQing about the ‘nerfs’ to SB, but really the nerfs are not that substantial, they merely help define it as more of a medium-range skirmishing weapon, with Longbow taking its proper place as the long range sniping weapon. It’s really a great change that will result in both weapons performing admirably in their respective niches instead of Shortbow trouncing all over Longbow and everything else like it does currently. If you want to be a long range master, you use both.

Shortbow should have always been 900 yards, really.

Einlanzer.1627:

Shortbow should have always been 900 yards, really.

Nope, longbow range should always been 1500 without the trait.

I hope this is wrong, wow i havent log in GW2 or forums in more than a week and this is the kind of surprise i get. Rangers becoming more nerfed with every patch.

Boomstin.3460:

Einlanzer.1627:

Shortbow should have always been 900 yards, really.

Nope, longbow range should always been 1500 without the trait.

I disagree that it would have made a 1200 range shortbow any better. If these patch notes are to be believed, than before this patch, the shortbows direct competition has always been the longbow, and the shortbow overwrote most of the roles that were meant to be played by the longbow.

However, with these patch notes, the shortbow is now relegated to competing with the Axe, which makes more sense, as one is a pressure condition weapon (shortbow) and the other is a spike condition weapon (axe).

This ACTUALLY creates more build diversity; condition users (and power users abusing the refire rate of the shortbow) are forced into skirmishing range (all of the rangers conditions are best used within 900 range anyhow), while power users get there ranged weapon of choice, and can then choose a set for skirmishing (going Longbow/Shortbow is even more of an option now).

Also, the refire rate for the longbows autoattack has been increased by decreasing the aftercast, which as somebody mentioned earlier, is a buff to the DPS on the longbow.

And even then, these notes are by no means the official or confirmed notes.

So no matter how much people argue and disagree on this, there is the potential that it’s all just wasted energy. People need to pull it back and wait a few days.

DeadlySynz.3471:

No retaliation does not kill me (not even close), and I run full glass cannon.

Yeah, always been baffled by this one. Use LB all the time and never been downed by retaliation. Not a problem.

we get this nerf and to compensate we get 14% dmg increase to skills that are there for the utilities and not to deal damage. More proof that anet dont play rangers or have any idea what they are doing with the class. Steam summer sale is coming and i have lot of other games unplayed, i think is time to give a rest to GW2

I was liking everything i read, and then i got to the pet part… i mean god i hope these are fake because those are some pretty huge numbers on nerfing the pets and i don’t feel they really gave us compensation…

Jong.5937:

DeadlySynz.3471:

No retaliation does not kill me (not even close), and I run full glass cannon.

Yeah, always been baffled by this one. Use LB all the time and never been downed by retaliation. Not a problem.

i got downed a few times by retaliation, but that was cuz all 5 of my targets were guardians and warriors spamming light field blast finishers :|

Durzlla.6295:

I was liking everything i read, and then i got to the pet part… i mean god i hope these are fake because those are some pretty huge numbers on nerfing the pets and i don’t feel they really gave us compensation…

I worried that you would never show..Patch notes are awesome,arent they?Im also a bit concerned about the huge numbers in pets nerf but i would suggest to wait and see..If they are real lets test some builds and make an conclusion at the end
Cheers

The one thing I noticed that still can give us some hope is that they didn’t label whether the changes are blanket, or just for PvP (where the calls for nerfs are taking place). If it’s just PvP, we’re fine. If it’s blanket, then we’re going to need to slap a dev.

This really destroys my SB/Axe/Horn, condition damage, skirmishing WvW Ranger…

If the SB 1200—->900 range happens, EVERY sensible and clever Ranger will switch to LB/GS power/precision/crit damage build…

SB will be abandoned and forgotton about…it destroys SB and condition builds…

The annoying thing is changing all my equipment, going to need a complete new set of exotics weapons/armour and DON’T EVEN MENTION ASCENDED ITEMS TO ME…

The pet nerfs don’t bother me at all but I would like to ditch my pets completely in return for minor buffs to my Ranger, they are still a useless ball and chain in my opinion…

Meglobob.8620:

DON’T EVEN MENTION ASCENDED ITEMS TO ME…

I feels dat pain.

jcbroe.4329:

Boomstin.3460:

Einlanzer.1627:

Shortbow should have always been 900 yards, really.

Nope, longbow range should always been 1500 without the trait.

I disagree that it would have made a 1200 range shortbow any better. If these patch notes are to be believed, than before this patch, the shortbows direct competition has always been the longbow, and the shortbow overwrote most of the roles that were meant to be played by the longbow.

However, with these patch notes, the shortbow is now relegated to competing with the Axe, which makes more sense, as one is a pressure condition weapon (shortbow) and the other is a spike condition weapon (axe).

This ACTUALLY creates more build diversity; condition users (and power users abusing the refire rate of the shortbow) are forced into skirmishing range (all of the rangers conditions are best used within 900 range anyhow), while power users get there ranged weapon of choice, and can then choose a set for skirmishing (going Longbow/Shortbow is even more of an option now).

Also, the refire rate for the longbows autoattack has been increased by decreasing the aftercast, which as somebody mentioned earlier, is a buff to the DPS on the longbow.

And even then, these notes are by no means the official or confirmed notes.

So no matter how much people argue and disagree on this, there is the potential that it’s all just wasted energy. People need to pull it back and wait a few days.

Yes, this is pretty much accurate. Everyone screaming about SB nerfs is being hysterical and reactionary. It makes much more sense this way than it did before, at least on paper- I wouldn’t be surprised if there are still some things that are off and will need additional tweaks.

Daze.6914:

It’s Ok for me as I usually use my sb at short range, it is my kind of melee weapon. Actually, this change will be more a buff than a nerd for the use I made of it (+14% damage on 3 skills).
However, I’m more concerned about the drastic pet DPS reduction.

The +14% on the utility skills won’t be noticeable. If they had put the +14% on skill 1, yeah, that would be somewhat of an offset for cutting the range by 25%, but they put it on utility skills you’re supposed to save for the right moment and not try to spam for a measly damage increase.

SB Ragners (and BM Rangers) will be taking it in the shorts, if these update notes are for reals.

I can’t remember other notes with changes to pet damage but, were they listed in percentages? I find that kind os strange.

cuasilk.6927:

I can’t remember other notes with changes to pet damage but, were they listed in percentages? I find that kind os strange.

They always list damage improvements/reductions in percentages. What they haven’t ever done that I found odd was list changes to damage coefficients (meaning that there are some notes on the list where it says increased from 0.6 to 0.8 that looked odd).

Also, the use of the term aftercast in itself seemed odd as well, as normally, when the official notes are released, the term after cast normally gets referred to as “delay,” since “aftercast” isn’t really a well known term to most people.

jcbroe.4329:

cuasilk.6927:

I can’t remember other notes with changes to pet damage but, were they listed in percentages? I find that kind os strange.

They always list damage improvements/reductions in percentages. What they haven’t ever done that I found odd was list changes to damage coefficients (meaning that there are some notes on the list where it says increased from 0.6 to 0.8 that looked odd).

Also, the use of the term aftercast in itself seemed odd as well, as normally, when the official notes are released, the term after cast normally gets referred to as “delay,” since “aftercast” isn’t really a well known term to most people.

It would definitely make more sense if these were internal testing notes as these would likely get passed over before final notes are introduced.

After looking through a lot of the changes on there (especially under mesmer), i don’t think these are accurate, it says that Signet of Illusion will apply when the illusion is created, which Anet has flat out said they can’t do due to server lag or something like that, so i wouldn’t count on these things to be happening, so don’t get too attached or angry with what they say!

That being said, i can only hope that a lot of the ranger ones ARE true because i did like those..

All leaks 100% confirmed true by Anet themselves…

Well true or not, I think the buff to companion’s might will negate the nerf to our pet’s damage.

I had hoped they add some base conditions damage to at least devourer but… Nevermind, anyway i don’t think my build will be really hurt by this patch except for the Short bow lost range, It will be a real pain in the a**.

Meglobob.8620:

All leaks 100% confirmed true by Anet themselves…

Please provide a link to this confirmation.

Meglobob.8620:

All leaks 100% confirmed true by Anet themselves…

Uh oh…link?

Just to clarify some things on bows…

Longbow does not refer to range, necessarily. It refers to the length of the bow itself.

A composite “shortbow” may very well have the range of a simple bow.

While “Longbow” may be a classification in some systems, “Shortbow” is not even really a recognized term (in actual archery). It usually refers to a bow that is shorter in length to a straight long bow, because it uses a recurve or reflex frame that compacts the size of the longbow into a shorter frame. They also tend to use a composite of different materials.

The use of these tended to be dependent on their cultural context, but the draw weight and effective range was competitive between all of the different technologies (if maximum range is the intended goal). It is the draw weight that directly dictates how much force will be behind the arrow, and the arrow itself will dictate flight patterns.

So, basically, a longbow just tends to be a straight piece of wood, where as other bows tend to use different shapes (even beyond just recurve and reflex) and various materials to achieve the same goal. It is more up to the draw weight and arrow design as to the range of the weapon, and these can be achieved using many different designs that will all max out what a human archer could actually use.

There are limits, obviously.. like, a five inch tall bow wont have the range of a three foot bow. But, I think thats just common sense.

Yes, I know its a video game, and it doesnt really matter. Its just a “The More You Know…” type of moment.

Either way, so my post isnt deleted.. I think the thief shortbow is significantly stronger than the ranger variant at this point. The range made them similar before, but now, it seems to be inferior.

That said, SO MANY balance changes are happening, that the actual picture of the game is difficult to imagine without having played it for a while.

Forzani.2584:

My prediction ? The top players will still dominate. As Clint says, adapt, improvise, overcome.

The top players will still dominate… as another class.

I have no qualms about this change. I feel like this is how it should have been since launch. It makes no sense, and it has always made the Longbow obsolete.

I really hope the pet nerfs are sPvP only.

In sPvP, players have less stats so it makes sense to drop the pets from PvE/WvW level stats to something sPvP appropriate.

However, in PvE/WvW players have higher stats, ascended gear and food, and the current power level of pets are perfectly fine. If they get nerfed, I am going to start demanding ascended pets and pet food (no just kidding!)